Adrian Mendoza: Sincerity and Qualification in Successful Networking

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Adrian Mendoza discuss:

  • Flipping the script on sales to professional development.
  • Spending your time in the best way for your skills and interests.
  • The importance of qualifying questions and building the right relationships.
  • Tips for networking effectively.

Key Takeaways:

  • Networking is about building relationships, not just about getting the business. It’s planting seeds to see what grows over time.
  • In order to know what to give, you have to listen. Don’t be so focused on giving your pitch that you’re ignoring what the other person’s needs and concerns are.
  • Ask the qualifying questions. If they are not the right fit for you, it would be a waste of your networking time.
  • You can say no and it be kind. You may not be the right fit for someone, but you may be able to introduce them to someone who is.

“If we believe that networking is about developing those relationships that you want, then it has to be based on trust. And if you’re not sincere, people will see through it right away. People know when you’re when you’re putting on a front, when you’re putting on an act. And honestly, nobody likes that.” —  Adrian Mendoza

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Episode References:

About Adrian Mendoza: Adrian is the managing partner of Lillig & Thorsness, Ltd. where he leads the litigation group. His practice includes business disputes, trust and estate litigation, fraud claims, and employment law matters. Adrian represents clients in the manufacturing, hospitality, real estate, legal, banking, and construction industries.

Connect with Adrian Mendoza:  

Website: https://www.lilliglaw.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianmendoza/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lillig-&-thorsness-ltd./

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LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

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Email: [email protected]

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hello, everyone. Have you ever wondered how much more business you could be generating each month? Well, you can take the Be That Lawyer challenge to find out. If I’m unable to help you find the money that’s been evading you, I’ll pay your hourly rate for the time invested together. Just go to Fretzin.

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[00:00:23] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host. Well, 

[00:00:45] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting and fun episode of Be That Lawyer.

[00:00:49] Steve Fretzin: I am your host, Steve Brettson, as the announcer mentioned, been doing the show for a while Adrian, I’ve got 400 episodes under my belt. I don’t know. Does that mean something to anybody? I think it does. 

[00:01:01] Adrian Mendoza: That’s a lot of shows. 

[00:01:02] Steve Fretzin: Okay. All right. I just wasn’t sure. I mean, I, I feel like that, that’s the case, but I also, you know, I don’t want to assume or presume that it’s a, that it’s some milestone that’s very exciting, but I think it is.

[00:01:13] Steve Fretzin: I’m excited about it and I’m just so happy to have you on for those who are listening to be that lawyer with Brettson for the first time, this show is all about helping you to be that lawyer. Someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. And so I’m just continually, you know, reaching out to friends and people I know that are, that are that lawyer and asking them to come on and say, Hey, how’d you do it?

[00:01:32] Steve Fretzin: What can you share? And Adrian fits that description very well. So I’d like to start off with the quote of the show, and that is Farrah Gray with build your own dreams or someone else will hire you to build theirs. And I think that’s just so perfect for this show. First of all, welcome to the show, Adrian.

[00:01:49] Steve Fretzin: And second of all, tell us a little bit about why you chose that quote. 

[00:01:53] Adrian Mendoza: All right. Well, I’m glad to be here, Steve. Thanks for having me. That quote, and, and many like it, I’ve, I’ve heard over the years, and it really struck me as something to, to guide my career. I had a judge in one of my first jury trials say something very similar to me.

[00:02:09] Adrian Mendoza: And I was a young attorney. We were on break and he said it right in front of the partner that I was working for. And he said, get your own clients. No matter what they tell you get your own clients and I use that with my young attorneys I always tell them you have to own your own career because if you don’t own it I’m gonna have to and it’s better for you if you do it 

[00:02:31] Steve Fretzin: And why so all right, so I hear what you’re saying.

[00:02:34] Steve Fretzin: I say it every day I’m screaming to the gods to do something about lawyers who Focus on the work and they don’t look at their career. They don’t look at the client development side of it What’s the psychology of Associates who aren’t or even partners that aren’t thinking that way what’s going on in their in their brains 

[00:02:52] Adrian Mendoza: You know, I think a lot of people say I’m a lawyer.

[00:02:56] Adrian Mendoza: I’m not a salesperson Yeah, okay, and I think you need to break that mindset and understand that as a lawyer What do you want? We all want that freedom to be in control of our own destiny And really that’s how that’s how you get it 

[00:03:12] Steve Fretzin: So I don’t think I think what we need to do maybe then is is stop We have to change their mindset about that.

[00:03:17] Steve Fretzin: It’s a salesman I mean I get that you have to bring in your own clients and that we can call that sales but I also think we need to we need to just like somehow bring it into the Into the practice of law that there’s another skill that you need to acquire To ensure that you can practice the law and practice the work that you enjoy with the people you enjoy To make the money that you’re going to enjoy You And that comes from client development.

[00:03:41] Steve Fretzin: So I don’t know how we’re going to twist that, that language around. I mean, I came up with sales free selling as a way of demonstrating. You don’t have to have a hard pitch to make, get business, but I think we need to just figure out how the industry in general can, can start to flip the script on their mindset about it.

[00:03:58] Steve Fretzin: So they’re not feeling salesy about it. 

[00:04:00] Adrian Mendoza: I think it is in large part, the vernacular, you know, I said sales, but I don’t use it anymore with my young attorneys, you know, one of this, you don’t want them to run for the hills. Yes. Marketing. I’ve even gotten away from, and now I try and just tell them it’s your professional development.

[00:04:15] Adrian Mendoza: Okay. Professional 

[00:04:16] Steve Fretzin: development. All right. I’m making a note of that professional development. That’s what we’re going to do. So Adrian Mendoza, you’re the managing partner of Lillig and Thorsness. I’ve known you for many years. I think we met, I know we’re both improvisers, but I mean, I think we met a long time ago.

[00:04:30] Steve Fretzin: Was it like at the Hispanic American Bar Association or something like that? We 

[00:04:35] Adrian Mendoza: met at a conference. You were on stage. Okay. Giving a presentation. Okay. And, and we spoke afterwards.And then I had you come out to my, to our firm and give a 

[00:04:47] Steve Fretzin: presentation. That’s what it was. Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it.

[00:04:49] Steve Fretzin: All right. Well, so your memory’s better than mine. Give us a little background though, cause you haven’t always been the managing partner of the firm. And I’d love to, because I think it’s gonna, it’s gonna come into play. Yeah. In our conversation today, understanding a little bit about where you come from.

[00:05:03] Adrian Mendoza: Sure. So getting ready for this, I realized this is my 30th year practicing. Wow. It’s a little scary. Thanks. But it goes quick, you know, as, as a young lawyer, I started out and I did insurance defense work and over time I expanded my practice to include. You know, different kinds of litigation and just grew it from there.

[00:05:25] Adrian Mendoza: And now, you know, we handle all kinds of commercial litigation, all kinds of civil litigation, and over the years, for whatever reason, I recognized that professional development was, was a key aspect of the practice to have. 

[00:05:40] Steve Fretzin: No doubt, no doubt. And so then you, so you focused on networking and really building up your book of business, and then.

[00:05:47] Steve Fretzin: Keep going from there. 

[00:05:48] Adrian Mendoza: Yeah. So that’s what I did. I eventually came to this firm 18 years ago. I became the man and I led the litigation practice here. And then two years ago I became managing partner and, and that is been an eye opener and it adds a completely different aspect to my daily activities and what I do, it’s, it’s.

[00:06:11] Adrian Mendoza: Now I’m a business owner and runner as opposed to just being a practitioner. 

[00:06:16] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Well, in, in a lot of the managing partners that I, when I work with a lot of managing partners in my Rainmaker round tables, and we, we talk about, you know, how many hats can one person wear? Got the business development hat.

[00:06:28] Steve Fretzin: Great. You’ve got the management hat. You’ve got the billable hour hat. You’ve got the administrative hat, recruiting hat. Like, It gets a little, a little crazy. Do you have one or two that you feel are where your time is best 

[00:06:40] Adrian Mendoza: spent? My time is best spent on the professional development, the client generation.

[00:06:45] Adrian Mendoza: Okay. That’s from the practice side. And then on the administrative side, the running the firm side, it’s looking at the policies and the practices and the processes that we’ve had in place. This firm is 45 years old. And so, you know, me becoming managing partner. It was an opportunity to look at things and say, this is how we do it, should we continue to do it that way?

[00:07:09] Adrian Mendoza: What can we do better? So that, that’s been a large part of my practice as well. 

[00:07:15] Steve Fretzin: Really cool. And I know one of the things that we wanted to talk about today and really focus on is Is a networking effectiveness. I’ve been I’ve been teaching networking for over 20 years and you’ve been doing networking for Close to 30.

[00:07:29] Steve Fretzin: So I think we can put together a lot of great ideas But and this may go back to what we mentioned earlier but why do lawyers or professionals general typically suck at networking like why are they They’re spending time doing it, but I don’t know that they’re very helpful or they’re getting much out of it 

[00:07:45] Adrian Mendoza: I think a lot of people have a backwards view of networking, of looking at someone and say, how can they help me?

[00:07:52] Adrian Mendoza: Rather than taking the approach of how can I help this person? Because if you help somebody, and I’ve learned this over the years, the more you help people, it comes back to you in spades. 

[00:08:05] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I think there’s You know, there’s, there’s people that just kind of show up for an event. They get a bunch of cards, they give a bunch of cards, they go, they go home and they go, why didn’t I get business from this?

[00:08:16] Steve Fretzin: This is, these people could all use my help. 

[00:08:19] Adrian Mendoza: Yeah. Well, networking isn’t necessarily just about getting the business. That’s the, that might be the end result. What we’re doing, what we’re trying to do is build relationships. And that’s a process. I had a mentor who said it’s like planting seeds. You know, some seeds are going to die right away.

[00:08:37] Adrian Mendoza: Some seeds are going to sprout and some seeds will, will, you know, be huge trees. That’ll give you lots and lots of fruit, but you never know which one it’s going to be. But it’s about the relationships and, and to build relationships, you know how it is. You need that know, like, and trust factor. You’re not going to get that in a single meeting with someone shaking hands.

[00:08:56] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. It takes time. And I don’t know that people are willing to invest time in not only attending the events, but then following up with the two, three, four people that they met with. And, and, and really get to know them and figure out how to help them in some way. And, and I know that’s challenging when you’re new and you don’t have a network or you’re not used to being an effective networker, which means you need to be a giver.

[00:09:21] Steve Fretzin: That’s a big part of it. So there’s a lot of people out there that are meeting. They, they maybe get to know each other better, but then they don’t realize like their next steps. 

[00:09:30] Adrian Mendoza: So the giving is a fact is a, is a huge factor. And I believe that if you, in order to know what to give. You’ve got to be able to listen and I think a lot of lawyers don’t actually listen because they’re trying to do their their pitch That they I’m sorry.

[00:09:46] Adrian Mendoza: I’m 

[00:09:46] Steve Fretzin: sorry what I wasn’t I didn’t hear you. What was that? I’m just kidding Ha ha ha but no but like right listening. I interrupt you. I know it was a bad I’m 

[00:09:55] Adrian Mendoza: giving their pitch their three minute You know, elevator speech that they’re not actually listening to this person, who is this person? What are their needs?

[00:10:03] Adrian Mendoza: What are their concerns? And you, and you won’t know what you can give unless you know where they’re coming from. 

[00:10:08] Steve Fretzin: But it also is, is maybe knowing what questions to ask to pull out the information that you’re missing. It’s like like being a detective a little bit in the sense of you’re looking to meet general counsels in manufacturing or hospitality or certain areas that you focus on.

[00:10:25] Steve Fretzin: And And if I don’t ask that question, who do you want to meet? Who are best for you? Then you’re, and you’re not sharing that with me openly that I’m, I’m just like, I don’t, you know, I guess if someone needs a, you know, needs litigation, I’ll, I’ll think of you maybe, but it’s not digging in the weeds enough to maybe understand who are your end perspective clients that you want to meet.

[00:10:47] Steve Fretzin: And also who are the connectors that are best for you? Not everybody’s created equal. As it relates to connecting litigators or transactional or, you know, people in specific industries. 

[00:10:57] Adrian Mendoza: Absolutely. And that’s why you have to be curious when you’re talking to people, you know, ask those questions. What can I do for you?

[00:11:05] Adrian Mendoza: Who are your target client base? Things of that nature. But if we’re not curious, if we’re not truly interested and sincere with people you’re not going to have that, that connection develop. 

[00:11:19] Steve Fretzin: So we’re talking about Things like asking great questions, being curious, listening, giving, these are words that people need to internalize as they do networking, otherwise, again, it’s just your professional meter, and you’re just out there meeting people, and thinking that meeting, I mean, there is a value to just being out there meeting people, okay, you are building your brand, people know your name, you’re seeing your face, that’s not even the baseline, I think that’s below the baseline i think the baseline is you need to meet with people get to know them better they need to like and trust you as you mentioned earlier but then you need to figure out how to connect them in some way do something for somebody selflessly as a way to start you know putting kind of the you know the the base down of what’s gonna end up coming back in spades to you.

[00:12:09] Adrian Mendoza: Yeah, I agree. And like you mentioned earlier that takes time.That happens over time. It does. There’s no immediate payoff. And I think that frustrates a lot of young lawyers. Yeah. 

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[00:14:13] Steve Fretzin: Well, the other thing that I sort of learned and I write about in my book, The Attorney’s Networking Handbook, available on Amazon, everybody, is that it’s not just about meeting people, but I also like to throw in the word qualifying.

[00:14:27] Steve Fretzin: And there’s nothing wrong with that word because you can meet with someone who has no opportunity to help you at all. And you can be a friend. Oh, that’s okay. Make a friend and help somebody. But ultimately, if you’re looking for regular referrals and ongoing business, you need to find people that are aligned with you not only from a networking standpoint, but also from a standpoint of running into the kinds of scenarios that you deal with on a regular basis.

[00:14:51] Steve Fretzin: So. There’s a question that I came up with years ago, and I’m sure I borrowed it, stole it, reconfigured it in some way, shape, or form, but when I’m meeting with someone and I want to understand what their, the opportunity is for them to refer me, Adrian, I might say something like, or ask something like, in an average year, how often are you coming across lawyers for cases?

[00:15:12] Steve Fretzin: Who really want to learn business development, but just don’t know who to speak to about, or don’t really know where to turn. And you, as the managing partner could say, well, that’s, you know, three to five every year, or you could say, my people all know what they’re doing, they would never need that. Well, one of those answers gives me a better understanding of whether or not I should spend more time with you than not than the other.

[00:15:33] Adrian Mendoza: Right. You have to make your time spent quality time. Okay. You can go to the greatest parties, have a great time, shake a lot of hands, but if they’re not the right people for you you’re going to get frustrated in the long run. Like, why is this not happening for me? You’re just in the wrong spot. You might be doing the right things and be in the wrong spot.

[00:15:54] Steve Fretzin: And I think there’s different ways to qualify. There’s qualifying on, you know, who’s aligned with it. I’ll give a quick example, like someone who’s an estate planner might align better with a financial planner, a CPA, someone that is dealing with maybe business owners that need estate planning, right? So maybe someone in M& A.

[00:16:13] Steve Fretzin: Maybe small business litigation versus, Oh, well, anybody can refer me. I’m an estate planning lawyer. I mean, that’s just, that’s not the way that I see things. And then within the segments that you’ve isolated, financial planners are all financial planners created equal. I’ll ask you that. It’s a loaded question.

[00:16:30] Adrian Mendoza: No, it depends on who your target is. You know, are you doing, are you focusing only on super high net, you know, worth value clients? If that’s the case. You know, your, your storefront financial planner may not be the right target for you. You’re going to be wanting to get into those private banking relationships and things like that.

[00:16:51] Adrian Mendoza: So you have to understand what your service is and then who that that person is. That’s going to get you there. I 

[00:16:58] Steve Fretzin: mean, the other dirty secret is you may find someone that works exactly with who you want to meet. Like you have the same end users. Okay. But they’re not a giver. They don’t get it. They’re not going to play ball.

[00:17:10] Steve Fretzin: Maybe they have three or four people they refer and you’re late to the game. I mean, there’s a lot of different things that you can ferret out to qualify whether this is a realistic opportunity to network with someone long term or, or not so much. 

[00:17:23] Adrian Mendoza: Yeah. And I don’t think you can be afraid to ask those qualifying questions because that’s a lot of wasted time if you’re not finding that out right up front.

[00:17:32] Adrian Mendoza: Yeah. And it, and it’s not mercenary. It’s, it’s smart business practices. Like you said, you can still have a great relationship with this person, be friends with this person, but understand that’s not going to be the source of referrals for you. 

[00:17:47] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I think some of the questions need to be asked in a particular order where you’re building a relationship where you can ask maybe a little more detailed question or a tougher question later on in the meeting that may not come across as well if you asked it up front.

[00:17:59] Steve Fretzin: So I think there’s, there’s you and I getting to know each other. You know, our kids are graduating from high school, college, whatever it might be. It’s, you know, where we live. It’s, it’s things that we connect on. We’re getting into learning about each other’s businesses. And within that construct, There’s opportunities to understand who your client base is and who my client base is, how do they align, and here’s the thing too, if you and I, Adrian, aren’t a fit for each other to network at a level where we’re referring each other over the course of year years, we can still be friends as you said, but then also, maybe I can get one connection out of you, That is going to take me down a superior path.

[00:18:35] Steve Fretzin: So I’ll give an example. Let’s say I mentioned that I work really well with legal recruiters and there’s three that you know really well because you use them. Okay. And you know, one in particular that you think would hit it off with me where you and I may stay friends and you and I can always think of each other.

[00:18:49] Steve Fretzin: You getting me that to that legal recruiter who then can produce three to five clients for me a year, and I can send stuff their way. That’s going to, that’s, that’s going to be a great end result where we don’t have to meet every month or every quarter or anything, but You know, maybe every year, but, but it’s that one off connection that might be the difference between a lot of business and no business.

[00:19:09] Adrian Mendoza: Right. And if that happens, every time that person, that recruiter sends you somebody, you’re going to say, Oh, that was an Adrian connection. Yeah. Exactly. You still get credit for it. Absolutely. 

[00:19:22] Steve Fretzin: And is it okay to say no to people? Like, so let’s say I have three, you know, I’m a state planning attorney. I have three financial planners that are killing it for me.

[00:19:29] Steve Fretzin: And I get an invitation to meet another financial planner. This is number four. There’s really not a lot that I think I could help this person with or whatever. I mean, do I still take that hour for that coffee? Or do I say no, what do I, how do I handle that? 

[00:19:44] Adrian Mendoza: No, no. Is it interesting? But I think yes, you can say no, you should say no to the wrong opportunities.

[00:19:55] Adrian Mendoza: And you can do it in a nice fashion. And I think the important thing is, you don’t necessarily just have to say no, period. You know, it could be no, but I think you should talk to so and so. I’ll make that introduction for you. And not just give him a name or a telephone number, but say, I’m going to make an introduction for you and I think you might be a better fit with that individual, with that professional.

[00:20:19] Adrian Mendoza: And they’re going to appreciate the fact that you were honest. You know, you don’t want to string anyone along. So just be honest and say, no, it’s not the right fit with me, but I can help you get to where you need to be. 

[00:20:29] Steve Fretzin: Maybe take 15 minutes instead of the hour to just, just say hello and introduce yourself and put a face with a name and And say, look, I’m not in a position where I can send you stuff and all that, but, but, you know, let me let, yeah, to your point, let me get you to someone.

[00:20:42] Steve Fretzin: I think that’s really important. So I think that’s leading into, into, you know, importance of honesty, sincerity, being authentic. You know, there’s a lot of networkers that I think put on a show or put on a face to do the networking, but at their core, they’re not really who they’re showing. Which is, I think, troublesome.

[00:21:03] Adrian Mendoza: Absolutely. If we believe that networking is about developing those relationships that you want, then it has to be based on trust. And if you’re not sincere, people will see through it right away. People know when you’re putting on a front, when you’re putting on an act. And honestly, nobody likes that.

[00:21:22] Adrian Mendoza: Because if you think someone’s pretending to be someone they’re not, you can’t establish that trust. And that, that happens a lot in trial work with juries. You have to be who you are, develop your own style and be comfortable with it. Because if you’re trying to be somebody else, the jury will see it.

[00:21:40] Adrian Mendoza: They won’t trust you. Your client will suffer because of it. So yeah, I think sincerity in all aspects of the practice is, is very important. 

[00:21:50] Steve Fretzin: I think the other part of it is, you know, it’s a little bit like dating. We’re trying to get to see if there should be a second date, a third date. We’re trying to see, is this someone we want to, you know, bring into our inner circle that we’re going to refer on a regular basis.

[00:22:02] Steve Fretzin: So I’ve got, you know, a dozen legal marketing groups that I’m, that I’m engaging with all the time, right. That are on my show that I’m friends with, but I can’t refer 10, you know, digital agencies, right. I’ve got to pick one or two that I know Are best for my clients based on their size shape scope that I trust that I know we’re going to get the job done I’m going to hear back from the client or the friend saying that was the right choice That was that that was a great experience and then I feel good.

[00:22:27] Steve Fretzin: Everybody’s winning in that scenario So there’s a lot of moving parts But, but I think it’s important to think about developing that inner circle because ultimately that may be where 80 percent of your business comes from, from clients and from networkers who, who can directly refer you. 

[00:22:44] Adrian Mendoza: Right. Your core group is important and, and you have to have that trust with them, particularly if you’re referring work to them.

[00:22:50] Adrian Mendoza: You want to be able to rely on them and know, you know, I’m going to be happy with the result that they give my, my client that I refer to them. And I know that’s going to happen because I can trust this person and I know who this person is and there’s, you know, not everybody’s going to fit that mold.

[00:23:05] Adrian Mendoza: You’re going to click with certain people. You’re going to get to know them. You’re going to get to trust them and they’ll become part of that, that inner circle. I 

[00:23:13] Steve Fretzin: mean, do you have a way of whether we use the word qualify or we, or we just talk about that, you know, How are we understanding someone’s legitimacy within our inner circle to refer us and to be, to be cooperative, collaborative.

[00:23:26] Steve Fretzin: Do you have a, a process for that? Or do you have a way of, of identifying who to move in, who to move out? 

[00:23:31] Adrian Mendoza: You know, I think it’s, it’s a result of the process of, of just talking and it doesn’t have to be talking about business, but who is this person? What’s important to them? You know, what are their values?

[00:23:43] Adrian Mendoza: And if you can kind of get a feel for that and you say, yeah, you know what? We are very much alike. Our client base is aligned, we’re hitting it off. I feel like this is somebody I can trust with my referrals. And, and I feel like if they send me something, you know, it’s important. I’m not going to let this person down.And get that kind of mutual feeling going, then, you know, this is probably a good fit. 

[00:24:08] Steve Fretzin: And what about the, the lowly poor introverts, the ones that, that hate networking, that just feel like it’s, it’s the lowest use of their time and they just, they just stay away from it like a plague. 

[00:24:23] Adrian Mendoza: I think introverts can actually be very successful networkers and relationship builders.

[00:24:30] Adrian Mendoza: Not everybody is going to be a walk into the room and backslap and handshake and, and that might not even be the best approach, you know, with, with potential clients, but an introvert who takes the time to listen. Is curious ask those questions, you know with one or two people instead of 20 in the room I think they’ve got a really good shot of developing those relationships and creating those strong bonds that you need So yeah You don’t have to be the back slapper and it’d be terrible to put on that front if that’s not who you are 

[00:25:02] Steve Fretzin: And what i’ve identified with introverts too is that that what they don’t feel they what they don’t enjoy Is the idea of winging it of just showing up getting a drink and trying to figure out the room and figure out what to Do what to say what to ask?

[00:25:16] Steve Fretzin: So, you know, I spent a lot of my time working with introverts a lot of them believe it or not are ip attorneys But it’s giving them a system to follow giving them a step by step process of how to evaluate the room how to leverage people in the room to get conversations going that you don’t have to start up yourself You know How do I identify who to speak to, who not, what to say, what questions to ask?

[00:25:37] Steve Fretzin: So they’re walking in really prepared. And I think when people are prepared introvert extrovert may not matter the preparation then sets up the success and and and the identification of those qualifications of who to talk to who to meet with because I want to get to know someone in 1015 minutes where I speak them in an event with an understanding that if this is going the way I want I want to then meet with them individually.

[00:26:02] Steve Fretzin: Right for the next step. Otherwise it’s hey, I gotta go to the bathroom. Really great meeting you and I’m gone You know this person was you know runs a flower shop and that’s maybe the last thing Not if I need flowers great, but you know from a standpoint of networking that may not be a good fit so You know, we can’t sit and speak for hours with people who aren’t beneficial to our time and to our, to our purpose of what we’re trying to accomplish in a meeting like that.

[00:26:25] Adrian Mendoza: Absolutely. I think a great use of time before an event is to see, can you, can you get your hands on the attendee list? And if you can get your hands on the attendee list and you can identify, two or three people that you really would like to spend some time with, you know, that’s important. And then you get there and you can ask the host or whoever, how do I find so and so?

[00:26:46] Adrian Mendoza: Are they here? Yeah. That’s a great use of, of pre event time. 

[00:26:51] Steve Fretzin: You, you just gave like a hidden treasure answer, by the way, whether you know it or not, if you can become friends with the host of the, of the person who’s running the event, and I’m that guy, like I’m running events. And I’m the best person to introduce you around to all these people strategically, not everybody, but maybe the three or four that, you know, would fit well with this, with this lawyer, whatever.

[00:27:12] Steve Fretzin: So I think getting to, whether it’s a conference or whether it’s just a one time event or something that’s regular become friends, like really get to know the person that’s running it because they could be a great catalyst to helping you get. You know, get right to the, to the heart of, of the folks that you want to meet quickly.

[00:27:29] Adrian Mendoza: Yeah. The host is going to be a great connector because everybody wants to talk to the host anyway. Right. So introduction, you must be somebody important because you know the host. 

[00:27:38] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Do you have one final, like really great tip for everybody about how you network, something that you find yourself doing that, that seems to be really effective?

[00:27:46] Adrian Mendoza: You 

[00:27:46] Steve Fretzin: know 

[00:27:46] Adrian Mendoza: what? Relax. I think people need to relax, smile a little bit and, and, you know, just enjoy the process for what it is. And you know, it’ll come back to you, but just, I think people get a little tense. About it when they’re first going into it. 

[00:28:02] Steve Fretzin: It’s like we’re going back to the very beginning of our conversation.

[00:28:05] Steve Fretzin: Like don’t make this sales, make this about meeting people, asking questions, learning about them, building relationships, getting to know others. You should talk a lot less than they’re talking and just take it all in as, as, and enjoy it and maybe have a cocktail too. But that’s at the heart of, of how we’re going to be successful networking.

[00:28:24] Steve Fretzin: It’s a lot more listening than talking. 

[00:28:26] Adrian Mendoza: Absolutely. 

[00:28:26] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Two ears in one mouth. Yeah. Two ears in one mouth. Use them in that. Ratio. Awesome, man. I so appreciate you sharing your wisdom. The game changing podcast that you put in front, and I’ve not heard of this one, it’s called In Our Time. What is that all about?

[00:28:41] Adrian Mendoza: In Our Time it’s a British podcast. Same host every time. He’ll have two or three college professors on. And they will touch on everything from philosophy, religion, history, literature, you know, and of course the professors, it’s their specialty. So, you know, for a history buff, for people who like to learn, it’s a fantastic podcast.

[00:29:06] Steve Fretzin: That’s really cool. I’ll check that. I, I enjoy those kinds of podcasts where you’re learning about the world from expert, you know, and I listened, you know, there’s a new show I listened to that does that where they bring in someone who really knows a lot about that subject. And, you know, then you just, you just, you just opens up your eyes and And what, what you know about this crazy place we’re living on this earth.

[00:29:27] Steve Fretzin: Fantastic, man. As we wrap up, I want to thank our sponsors of course, Lawmatics, who’s just crushing it at helping law firms and lawyers to automate the way that they’re, they’re dealing with their pipelines and the way that they’re taking in, in contracts and all kinds of fun stuff there, of course, green cardigan marketing, check out my website, Fretzin.

[00:29:46] Steve Fretzin: com to see their wonderful work. And get staffed up. I use them for years now. And honestly, you know, to have a full time marketing assistant, who’s just hammering out all my marketing for me, I don’t see the downside on that.From a marketing and brand building standpoint adrian if people want to learn more about you about your firm What are the best ways for them to reach you 

[00:30:07] Adrian Mendoza: our website lilliglaw.

[00:30:09] Adrian Mendoza: com l i l l i g l a w. com we’re on the web and you can learn all about us there or on our linkedin page. 

[00:30:18] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, awesome, man Well, thanks for coming on and talking networking It’s one of my favorite subjects and I think you and I have a very Similar mindset and sort of philosophy about it, which, which I think definitely came through in this, in this episode.

[00:30:31] Steve Fretzin: So thanks for coming through and being a guest and and I want to continue to network with you as well. Absolutely. Thank you for having me and I’m sure I’ll see you soon. Yes. Yes. And thank you everybody for spending time with Adrian and I today, man, the 30 minutes just Rick and flew. I mean, you look down and you look up and it’s 30 minutes and where did it all go?

[00:30:49] Steve Fretzin: And I think that’s cause we’re, we’re, you know, we’re talking shop and we’re having fun with it. So listen, everybody the things that are going to make you effective to be that lawyer, to be a rainmaker, to really focus on client development. And, and, and again, going back to the earliest part of our conversation, that’s where the future is should be for most lawyers is having their own clients, whether you’re at a firm solo, it doesn’t matter.

[00:31:11] Steve Fretzin: That piece of the puzzle needs to be figured out as a way to ensure that you’re in control of your career So take heed and take warning and do take action but that’s what I got to say about that. Take care. Everybody be safe. Be well, we will talk again soon

[00:31:30] Narrator: Thanks for listening to be that loyal life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice Visit steve’s website Fretzin. com For additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business Development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.