Alexandra Watkins: Take Control of Your Name and Brand

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Alexandra Watkins discuss:

  • The profession of naming.
  • Brand, personal, and business naming.
  • Identifying what makes you unique and your brand personality.
  • Creating a consistent message across your brand, social media, and all aspects of your business.

Key Takeaways:

  • People fall in love with brands, but it doesn’t happen overnight.
  • The name is the soul of your brand. If you name it correctly, you can attract the business you want to work with off of the name alone.
  • Brainstorm by using all of your online resources. Using colors on a whiteboard is outdated and one of the worst ways to brainstorm.
  • Review your client testimonials – understand what words they are using to describe what you are helping them with, even if it isn’t the language you would have used.

“Use your moniker, use your name everywhere that you can. It’s going to help people remember you.” —  Alexandra Watkins

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Episode References: 

About Alexandra Watkins: Alexandra Watkins is a brand name expert and author of the Inc. Top 10 Marketing Book, “Hello, My Name is Awesome: How to Create Brand Names That Stick.” She is the founder of Eat My Words, a naming firm that specializes in creating names that make people smile instead of scratch their heads. If you have ever enjoyed a Wendy’s Baconator, you have literally eaten her words.

Connect with Alexandra Watkins:  


Email: [email protected]







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LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.


[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey, everyone. Before we get to the show, I wanted to let you in on something over the next few months and starting on August 24th with the topic that taboo surrounding sales and legal, I’ll be providing some sales free selling workshops for you to learn the basics of my methodologies. If you ever wonder what it’s like to work with a coach or go through incredible training, here’s your chance.

[00:00:20] Steve Fretzin: It’s easy to register. Just go to Fretzin dot com slash events to register as my VIP guest. You See you there and enjoy the show.

[00:00:36] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time, with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

[00:00:58] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, welcome to Be That Lawyer, I am Steve Fretzin. Brett’s and your host, and I’m so happy that you’re with us today. As you know, this show is all about helping you to be that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker, and a big part of that is business development, obviously.

[00:01:12] Steve Fretzin: That’s my jam. And then another part of it is marketing and advertising and branding and really thinking about, you know, how are you getting the message out about, you know, your skills without saying that you’re an expert, you know, people need to just imply and understand your expertise. And so I’ve got, uh, Alexandra waiting in the wings.

[00:01:29] Steve Fretzin: How you doing, Alexandra? I’m good. Hi, Steve. Yeah. Good. Good. And we’re going to get into the weeds on branding today. She’s a superstar branding expert. We of course have to start as we always do with our quote of the show, and I’m a huge fan of Albert Einstein. I don’t know how he’s the one who got so many, so many amazing quotes out there, but here’s one that, uh, that I hadn’t heard that I think, uh, I want to hear what your thoughts are, but creativity is seeing what others see.

[00:01:54] Steve Fretzin: And thinking what no one else ever thought, and that is, that’s pretty deep, but talk about the first of all, welcome to the show, Alexandra. And tell us a little bit about that quote and why of all the thousands of quotes that that’s the one you submitted today. Thank you for

[00:02:09] Alexandra Watkins: welcoming me to the show, Steve.

[00:02:11] Alexandra Watkins: So I chose that quote because. If you’re a creative person, you have to have the ability to look at things and see them differently. So this example that comes to mind is, I used to write greeting cards for a living, and I started that retro greeting card phrase back in the, gosh, I guess it was the late eighties.

[00:02:31] Alexandra Watkins: And I remember looking at a picture and it was a man placing a mink stole on his wife, right? Like over his wife’s shoulders. But that’s what the picture was, but my, when I looked at it, I looked at it like he was taking it off. Right. It was the same because it was just a static photo. So I had the greeting card about, you know, honey, I’m sorry, I have to return this to Neiman Marcus.

[00:02:55] Alexandra Watkins: Santa didn’t come this year. So it was more like he was taking it away. So if you can look

[00:03:06] Alexandra Watkins: at it like, I don’t know if you can see back here is my. Pink retro refrigerator.

[00:03:10] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Yeah,

[00:03:12] Alexandra Watkins: very small. How I looked at that was not as a refrigerator. It’s like, what can I put inside there? So inside, I have my cool book. Ah,

[00:03:24] Steve Fretzin: it’s like loaded with books. Everybody. I mean, top to bottom. Yeah.

[00:03:29] Alexandra Watkins: It’s the ability to look at something and see it for something that it’s not.

[00:03:33] Alexandra Watkins: Something completely different.

[00:03:35] Steve Fretzin: And I, I think I heard recently too, like when everyone is going one direction, the best thing you can do in business is to go the other direction, right? Like be the contrarian, go the other way. And that’s where a lot of the business is. Yeah. I mean, that’s

[00:03:47] Alexandra Watkins: what I did with my business.

[00:03:48] Alexandra Watkins: I, you know, all the brand name firms are all based on, you know, they do the whole linguistic thing and Latin and I didn’t go that way at all. Like I went, I would. It came from advertising and everything to me was based on concept. You know, what can you do to make an emotional connection with someone? And that’s not coming up with a name that’s based on linguistics.

[00:04:10] Alexandra Watkins: It’s coming up with a name that’s based on something that makes people smile instead of scratch their head.

[00:04:17] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Now, really cool. Alexandra Watkins, you were the founder of Eat My Words. Which is also, by the way, I, you know, just the coolest stuff of names. And I know that there’s a story behind that, but give us a little bit of your background and leading into kind of where you are today and your Be That Lawyer tipping point, which is one of my favorite things to hear.

[00:04:35] Alexandra Watkins: Yeah, so my background is I was an advertising copywriter for a very long time and Working at big agencies like Ogilvy and Mather and and I loved advertising. I loved writing copy I love words and my tipping point is well every once in a while I would get thrown a bone and get to name something and I love naming but I did not know that naming was a profession and because advertising and branding They’re related, but they never really intersect.

[00:05:06] Alexandra Watkins: So when I discovered naming was a profession, that’s when I switched gears and decided to become a namer.

[00:05:14] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and that’s, and I, I love doing, I’m not, that’s not my profession, but when I get a chance when a lawyer says, you know, we figure out that there’s an angle, we figure out that there’s something unique that they have in their background, or that they are doing that no one else is doing, and we just kind of play with it.

[00:05:29] Steve Fretzin: And so I love that. I mean, that creativity. Of coming up with something unique and unusual and thought provoking and different. I mean, that’s like super exciting. And you get to do that, like as your job. That’s I love that. Yeah,

[00:05:42] Alexandra Watkins: it’s a dream job.

[00:05:45] Steve Fretzin: So cool. And so obviously I need to ask this because it has to happen and come out.

[00:05:50] Steve Fretzin: But. Like what are your favorite brands when you think about all the different brands around and it doesn’t have to be around legal or anything Just like what brands do you just love? the what the thought put into it the way it looks the way it sound like how it makes you feel like what what are Your like your favorite one or two?

[00:06:06] Steve Fretzin: Well,

[00:06:06] Alexandra Watkins: I’m gonna start with the name that I came came up with which is the Baconator Wendy’s iconic bacon cheeseburger That’s yeah, people love to say the name the Baconator. And of course it spawned, you know, son a Baconator There’s Baconator fries. There’s I’m, I’m sure people have named their dog the Baconator.

[00:06:27] Alexandra Watkins: Someone probably has a Baconator tattoo. So yeah, it has its own Wikipedia page. That’s when you know that a name is done well. A brand name that I love is, or a brand that I love is Kryptonite, the bike lock company. I just think Kryptonite, it’s a, pardon the pun, it’s a strong name, and uh, it’s a good company.

[00:06:45] Alexandra Watkins: When someone posted a video on YouTube a really long time ago, about how you could break a Kryptonite lock with a Bic Pen. And of course, Kryptonite was horrified and you really could do it. And if you sent them your key, they would send you a new lock. And they, they held their promise and they did and instead of going out of business, I’m sure it earned them a lot of brand loyalty among people like the company.

[00:07:12] Alexandra Watkins: Yeah, but yeah, that is a

[00:07:13] Steve Fretzin: strong strong name So the name is one thing and it sounds like the other part of it is like can they can can they back up the name? Because if you can’t back up the name, then it may be it won’t really hold up in the world.

[00:07:25] Alexandra Watkins: Yeah Yeah, cuz kryptonite yeah a big pen like Superman would not be repelled by a big pen, right?

[00:07:31] Alexandra Watkins: Yeah, right

[00:07:33] Steve Fretzin: Unless it was filled with kryptonite and that’s the and that’s the nerd in me knowing things about you know DC Comics and all that stuff, but So that in there are certain brands that I feel that I have feelings for and so someone will say, you know, Coke or Pepsi or someone will say, you know, Corvette or Porsche or, you know, Mercedes Benz and I like immediately I have feelings or reactions to different brands and kudos to the folks that work to, you know, get those names out and run those commercials and And, uh, I almost joined a fraternity in college because their, their beer was Budweiser.

[00:08:09] Steve Fretzin: And at the time I was going through a whole underage drinking Budweiser thing, which I’m admitting here. But, you know, it, of course I didn’t join because of that. Um, I joined a different one, but the whole idea was like, I, that Budweiser brand really, really hit me because their commercials just rocked and they really backed up the brand with how I felt about that, about their, you know, about the company.

[00:08:31] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I

[00:08:32] Alexandra Watkins: think that, that people fall in love with brands, right? Like you did with Budweiser, they took, you know, it’s not like they overnight, they earned your trust or loyalty as a consumer. So when you’re starting out with a blank slate, you know, the name is the first thing that you’re, well, obviously you’ll come up with a concept for whatever it is that you’re inventing, but the name is so important.

[00:08:55] Alexandra Watkins: That’s really the soul of your brand.

[00:08:57] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, so let’s, let’s flip it to legal because you have some, some, some strong experience in this area and what makes a great brand in a lawyer or a law firm? Because that’s a little bit different than Budweiser or Tiffany’s or. You know, or Apple, um, we’re talking about legal services.

[00:09:14] Steve Fretzin: So, so talk, talk to that.

[00:09:17] Alexandra Watkins: Sure. Well, I, obviously a lot of firms are named after the partners, the founders, and that’s just, it’s their tradition. People do it, but it doesn’t, when you do that, it doesn’t say anything about what the firm is, what they specialize in. Yeah. Any other practice areas. So, we are big believers at Eat My Words that you can have your firm with an, a brand name and it will do lots of things for you.

[00:09:48] Alexandra Watkins: So we worked with naming a, uh, a law firm in San Francisco, the founder’s name is Layla Benjamali, and she knew that people would struggle to Remember her name, spell her name, pronounce her name. It was just, you know, it kind of had that trifecta of like, uh, oh, that’s going to be difficult. So she wanted a name that would attract people.

[00:10:12] Alexandra Watkins: So she worked with a lot of startups creating their foundational documents and building their foundation. So we re rebranded her, uh, bedrock. And when we named it bedrock, she said, what happened? It was amazing. She said they started attracting the type of clients that they wanted to work with. And that’s what can happen when you have a name, like when we were talking before the show started, you mentioned about the law.

[00:10:39] Alexandra Watkins: And I know that’s not the name of a law firm, but if it was, and maybe it is, that that’s going to attract somebody like, imagine your name in a phone book, well, I guess, or, you know, something in a directory, like what’s going to differentiate your name from every other law firm name. Um, another one that we named was another firm that worked with a lot of startups, and they were facing infringement on their name, so they were forced to change it.

[00:11:06] Alexandra Watkins: I think it was called emergent law, and so they work with startups, but they were also very big into environmental law, so we rebranded them Terrain Legal. ’cause terrain, you’re navigating the tr the terrain as a startup, but then also it worked for environmental really well.

[00:11:22] Steve Fretzin: Oh, nice. So you get like a twofer on that one.

[00:11:24] Steve Fretzin: A twofer, yeah. Okay. Well very cool. And so is that the trend now that law firms should be looking at getting rid of the three named male old men partners that are on the na, on the door and looking to rebrand? Or is that a mistake? 30, 40, 50 years in where everyone knows those names in their city that they’re in.

[00:11:48] Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

[00:11:48] Alexandra Watkins: Good questions. Not a mistake. It’s never too late to change your name. We recently rebranded a bank that was more than a hundred years old. First national bank of Syracuse, which is not in Syracuse, New York. It was then Syracuse, Kansas. As it was a regional bank, an award winning regional bank. That, you know, was that their name was kind of made them invisible.

[00:12:11] Alexandra Watkins: And so we, they were a Maverick Bank. They wanted a name that was more Maverick. Their tagline had been making dreams come true. They do a lot of agriculture loans. And so we rebranded them Dream First.

[00:12:25] Steve Fretzin: Mmm. Dream

[00:12:26] Alexandra Watkins: first. Okay. Yeah. So we kept the first part, you know, which is the popular and bank names, but dream first, very aspirational.

[00:12:33] Alexandra Watkins: And it doesn’t sound like a bank, you know, it’s, it sounds very inviting, like somewhere that you might want to step your foot in the door, like, Oh, help me help me. I have all these dreams. Help me make them a reality.

[00:12:47] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. So what are some ways for law firms to stand out or differentiate themselves by changing and updating their brand from, again, a list of, of last names to something unique that, you know, that they come up with that really represents what they do and how they do it and what makes them unique?

[00:13:09] Alexandra Watkins: Well, I guess it’s drilling down and finding out like what does make you unique. And if you. Read my book. If you work with me, you’ll fill out a, what’s called a creative brief where you’re going to, it will encapsulate, you know, you’re going to write down what desired brand experiences do you want people to have when they come in contact with your brand?

[00:13:27] Alexandra Watkins: What’s the personality of your brand? We worked with naming a litigation firm in San Francisco. They work with a lot of disruptive industries. They came to us through a cannabis. Client that we had named a high end edibles company for women of a certain age that we had named Garden Society and they litigated on their behalf and that’s how they came to us and they won.

[00:13:51] Alexandra Watkins: Yay So we they work with a lot of you know, they’re they work with you know, things like cannabis They’re we’ll probably get into you know The psychedelics, things like that. Crypto, just more edgier things. Right. And we name them tectonic. Mm-hmm. . They’re really shaking things up right. And it works well in San Francisco with the whole earthquake thing.

[00:14:14] Alexandra Watkins: So Yeah. What, you know, that name work for them. So like what is, what is going to express to your clients what’s going to attract people to you? You know? What do you want to say? What’s your unique brand positioning? Hey

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[00:15:58] Steve Fretzin: Meet Sarah, an awesome lawyer, but a terrible marketer. Get visible. Helped her build a powerful website and boost her online visibility. Now she ranks high on Google Gains clients through ads and engaging content. Tired of feeling insignificant. Make it rain. Visit get and stand out. You know, and it’s interesting too, it might end up being part of the future in the sense that there are now states that have non, non lawyer owned law firms where You know, putting the names on the door may be, you know, less applicable, applicable anyway.

[00:16:33] Steve Fretzin: But, you know, think about the future when, you know, people start investing in law firms and owning law firms and they’re not, you know, named partners and, and, and folks that started it from the ground up or, or even if they did. And that may be the future of where things are going anyway, away from the name partners and the four or five names on the door.

[00:16:51] Steve Fretzin: That’s interesting.

[00:16:51] Alexandra Watkins: And yeah, people resonate that if you can give your brand a name that’s memorable, it’s, I’ll give you an example. This woman is not an attorney, but she was using her own name. She’s a PR professional and her name’s Lynette Hoy. And we rebranded her Fire Talker PR because she’s very fiery and her tagline is hot on the press.

[00:17:12] Alexandra Watkins: So when you have. When you have a name that lends itself to a theme like fire talker, then you can do things like a tagline like hot on the press or she calls herself the fire chief. She works in the firehouse and you know, fire chief is kind of her moniker and that’s another thing that attorneys can do is they can adopt a moniker.

[00:17:31] Alexandra Watkins: So that’s where you’re not it. Changing the name of your company, but you’re branding yourself with a nickname. So for instance, there’s an attorney named Lauren Vasquez, again, name, her name says nothing about her. She’s a cannabis attorney and she has given herself the monitor, the fired up lawyer.

[00:17:50] Steve Fretzin: Nice.

[00:17:51] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I’ve, I’ve kept the name Fretson as my company because I’m, I’m an individual, you know, working in, you know, I kind of am the company, but the be that lawyer is sort of the moniker, the brand. The show in the brand of my column in the, in the brand of, of what people know me for. So I think, you know, that was my work around to keep the name.

[00:18:12] Steve Fretzin: And now if I was expanding my company, my company used to be called, and I don’t know, this is maybe, uh, something most people that listen to this podcast don’t know because I had a life before lawyers and my company was called sales results, Inc. Okay. And I was working with sales organizations and entrepreneurs and I had the arrow going up and it was like very salesy and results and blue and green and man, it really hit people hard and in the right way, but working with lawyers and, and nothing personal guys, but there’s some dandelions out there, you know, and so, you know, some, you know, some, some flowers and whatever.

[00:18:44] Steve Fretzin: That, you know, Sales Results, Inc. is just too aggressive and they didn’t like even carrying around my materials. So, I just had to make a judgment call, but, um, I think the, the, the idea that, that I’m helping people to be that lawyer and that, you know, hopefully is contagious and people start, you know, I’ve had people stop me and go, be that lawyer guy, and they kind of pointed me.

[00:19:03] Steve Fretzin: So, I think it’s a good one, but I don’t know if, you know, if we wanted to talk about that on air. But, uh, you know, I, I, but that, I found it to be, to be spot on with what I’m actually trying to accomplish.

[00:19:14] Alexandra Watkins: Yeah. I like it a lot. And people, when they see Be That Lawyer, it makes an emotional connection with them, right?

[00:19:20] Alexandra Watkins: Because everyone wants to be that lawyer.

[00:19:22] Steve Fretzin: Right. Not the lawyer that’s been, that’s, uh, you know, that’s in jail, but the lawyer on the other side, that’s the rate maker, right? That’s what we want. Be that guy. Yeah. That guy. The

[00:19:30] Alexandra Watkins: one everyone’s talking about. I love that phrase, Be that guy. Be

[00:19:33] Steve Fretzin: that guy. All right.

[00:19:35] Steve Fretzin: Well, very cool. And then what are, so let’s say that whether it’s someone that has a name as their brand or someone that has a brand and a logo that, you know, someone like you have has come up with that represents what they do, what are the ways that they need to, to work to then get the brand out into the market?

[00:19:51] Steve Fretzin: Because it’s one thing to come up with a great name, you know, fire starter, fire, you know, you know, some of the ones that you mentioned. And then it’s another thing to then be able to get everybody thinking about it, talking about it. You know, wanting to wanting to go to you because of it.

[00:20:07] Alexandra Watkins: Well, start using it.

[00:20:08] Alexandra Watkins: So, for instance, in your LinkedIn profile, let’s say you had a moniker like the Fired Up Lawyer. So, Lauren Vasquez, I would recommend, you know, Lauren, the Fired Up Lawyer, in quote, Vasquez, you know, so use your moniker, use your name everywhere that you can. It’s going to help people remember you. But yeah, start getting, you know, and then, you know, if there’s anything visual that you can do with your brand, like, you know, and eat my words, I showed you the pink refrigerator full of books.

[00:20:39] Alexandra Watkins: That’s extending our brand with an icon, the pink fridge and my business card is a little pink fridge that opens up everything we do and eat my words is we have a lot of food like fun. We give away pens that look like twizzlers. We have posters that look like a piece of toast. So, you know, you can, when you have a name that lends itself to a theme, you can have a lot of fun with

[00:21:02] Steve Fretzin: it.

[00:21:03] Steve Fretzin: So I think that’s one thing is, you know, making sure that your name is included and, and everything, you know, so it’s a consistent message, right? Everywhere you have your name, LinkedIn, Facebook, website, art, you know, column in a newspaper, whatever it might be. And then also like all the, you know, tchotchkes and things around it.

[00:21:22] Steve Fretzin: So that, again, it’s just one brand. You know, that’s out there that, that everybody can get to know. Yeah. And then,

[00:21:28] Alexandra Watkins: and, and when, what happens is when you have a brand, so there was a guy I was doing a workshop on monikers and the guy that I was talking to Bruce Bert has. His moniker that he used was the father of cause marketing.

[00:21:44] Alexandra Watkins: He did the first cause marketing campaign a million years ago, and I said, that was long and kind of clunky. So I took one look at him and I said, you’re the cause father. And he loved it because like the Godfather is his favorite movie. So. He’s become the cause father. His card is the cause father. He has a photo of himself in a tuxedo, you know, and you know He gives that card out to everyone like when you have a name that you love a brand that you love You want to tell people about it versus if you’re just using, you know, your personal name the partner name It’s not that, you know, unless it’s, you know, Dewey Cheetham and Howe or something like that, probably not giving out your card.

[00:22:25] Alexandra Watkins: Like, Oh, look at my name. Or think about being at a trade show, right? Or at a conference, right? You’re into some law conference and you have your name badge on. If it had an interesting name or your moniker on it, like we just did a marker for this guy. Frank Favreau, and his grandfather was in the mafia, and I’m like, and he’s a customer service guy, I’m like, lean into that.

[00:22:46] Alexandra Watkins: So he’s Frank the Fixer Favreau, and you know if he’s at a conference, and he’s got Frank, Frank the Fixer Favreau, like people are gonna, it’s a, it’s an icebreaker, it’s a conversation starter. But in all the right ways, it’s not like it’s a name that people can’t pronounce, or they’re, it’s ambiguous. And they’re like, wait, what is that?

[00:23:06] Alexandra Watkins: Like, that’s, you want a curiosity factor that’s like, ooh, tell me more, not like a head scratcher.

[00:23:13] Steve Fretzin: So if a lawyer or a law firm is hearing this and they go, you know what, we’ve been thinking about it for a long time and we want to take this advice. Maybe it’s we have to reach out to Alexandra for her help.

[00:23:27] Steve Fretzin: Maybe it’s a D, do it yourself, you know, until you realize you can’t, what are, what are some ways that, that people can start thinking about creating their own brand or moniker, something to take things to the next level versus just staying, staying the course.

[00:23:44] Alexandra Watkins: Well, I would say you need to have a framework around it, because the mistake people make is just they sit in a conference room and You know, they’re staring at a whiteboard, trying to come up with colorful ideas, and that’s not the best way to brainstorm, it’s the worst way to brainstorm.

[00:23:58] Alexandra Watkins: The best way to brainstorm is, you know, to ideate using all of the tools online, and that’s everything from ChatGPT. To, you know, going to stock photo libraries and typing in words related to your concept and looking for images. So, for instance, when Reebok was naming the company, if they type, went to stock photo house and typed in the word fast, or fast animals, they might have seen a Reebok, which is a small deer.

[00:24:27] Alexandra Watkins: And, so, that’s what, you know, you want to brainstorm online, but, and in my book, Hello, My Name is Awesome, Lots of different resources for that. I have an online course with a lot more resources. Yeah. And then of course, if you work with me, I’m going to do everything for you. And then it’s just

[00:24:46] Steve Fretzin: hands it off.

[00:24:47] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. What about, and what about, um, the clients, you know, if you, if you have a, a, a, a history of success with clients and you’re getting complimented all the time for this and for that, and for the things you do and the work you’ve done and the, you know, the results you’ve got obtained and all that. Is that a good idea to kind of talk to the clients and ask them what do they think and if so, how do you do that?

[00:25:11] Steve Fretzin: Oh,

[00:25:11] Alexandra Watkins: you mean to ask people about your name that you came up with? No,

[00:25:15] Steve Fretzin: I would say even before that, maybe to help you figure out like, what are you best at? Is it, is it responsiveness? Is it results? Is it personality? Yeah,

[00:25:24] Alexandra Watkins: I would say, yeah, you could ask people. I’ll just, yeah, describe, describe our services or describe us in one, one to two words.

[00:25:32] Alexandra Watkins: Okay. And don’t put words in their mouth. Let them come up with it on their own. Yeah.

[00:25:38] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Is that, is that through a survey? Is that through your own, just impromptu on the phone with them? I think a,

[00:25:46] Alexandra Watkins: just a quick email, you know, describe our service in one word. Okay. And then from there, use those words and go to the SAR office or go to chat GPT.

[00:25:56] Alexandra Watkins: And then just start ideating there.

[00:26:00] Steve Fretzin: Okay, okay. Cause I think what I, where I’m, where I’m going with that is like, there are lawyers that may want to name themselves or their law firm what they think matters or what they think is going to hit the public a certain way. My concern is that they may miss the mark.

[00:26:15] Steve Fretzin: They might think that it’s one thing when in fact. The clients and the general public and the other lawyers and the people that refer them may think it’s something else. That’s, that’s why I’m just, I’m just kind of putting it out there. Like maybe it’s something where you want to get some feedback before you just start jumping into bed with

[00:26:30] Alexandra Watkins: it.

[00:26:30] Alexandra Watkins: Well, review all your customer testimonials. I mean, that’s what I do. When I, when I was working on that, just the second edition of my book, I went back and I read all that. I exported all the reviews for the first edition. And then that’s where I found words like what words like the word framework, I never use the word framework ever, but that word was in so many reviews.

[00:26:52] Alexandra Watkins: I’m like, okay, that’s a word that I need to use promoting the book because people say that all the time. Like they needed a framework where I don’t need a framework. I just am kind of doing it my way. But for other people to have a process with a framework was really important. Yeah,

[00:27:09] Steve Fretzin: yeah. The words I hear more than anything is that I’m providing, although there’s a lot of things I provide and I’m helping do business development and personal branding and stuff for lawyers and law and not law firms for lawyers at law firms is, um, control and freedom.

[00:27:23] Steve Fretzin: I mean, those are the things that I hear those two words, more than any other words, what I’m interviewing a prospective client for me. And I say, you know, what are you really looking to get out of building your own client base, building your own book? And almost always comes back to control and freedom, because if they don’t have their own clients, they don’t, then they’re really doing everyone else’s work or they’re, they’re just not really, again, in control of like their destiny.

[00:27:45] Steve Fretzin: It’s under the. You know, the umbrella of this, of the firm, which is for some very, you know, that makes them very happy for others, you know, they feel, they feel at risk. So I don’t know. I may have to look at it doing something on that, but that’s, those are the two words that I hear. And it’s not really about me.

[00:27:59] Steve Fretzin: It’s more about like what. They’re, it’s what they’re looking for and it’s what I provide, so, but it’s not about me. I’m, you know, I don’t know. That’s, that’s where I guess I’ve got to maybe have to talk offline with you.

[00:28:10] Alexandra Watkins: Yeah. Control is a great word to explore and yeah, people do want that. You want to, I mean, you want to be able to control the clients that you have too.

[00:28:18] Alexandra Watkins: You want, you want the ability to be able to say, no, I don’t want to work with you. And you know, when you’re at a firm and you’re just being, whatever, if you have, your plate is open, you’re getting the next person that walks in the door,

[00:28:29] Steve Fretzin: right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, for more, more than for most, it’s control over that they have their own clients.

[00:28:36] Steve Fretzin: Then they’re what’s called in the legal space, right? Portable. They can take the, they can move laterally from one firm to an extra, like if their firm gets bought or their boss is a monster or whatever it is that could happen, they know they’ve got their own base that they can then walk with and go start their own thing or they could take it to another firm and that kind of control, even if someone’s happy today, that doesn’t mean in five or 10 years that that’s going to remain, right?

[00:28:58] Steve Fretzin: And so that’s, that kind of control, it’s, is, is absolutely critical today more than ever for lawyers. And this show is all about that, right? I mean, that’s all about, you know, be that lawyer. Part of that is how do, how do you, you know, become a rainmaker, which ultimately leads to, to that control. Yeah, I like it.

[00:29:15] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Um, so let’s wrap up, uh, Alexandra with your, um, game changing podcast. And I, I’m thrilled that you mentioned this one because A, I haven’t heard it and B, I want to hear it. It’s called Beyond Curious. I guess it’s a recently Rebranded. What was the name before? Do you

[00:29:32] Alexandra Watkins: recall the name before? Yeah, I do.

[00:29:34] Alexandra Watkins: I definitely recall. Yes, the name because I renamed it. Yes. Oh, there you go. My God. Yes, exactly. You’re on the lines. So the name before what? So Brandon Fong is the host. It’s it’s in the top 2% of podcasts globally. And it’s the name before was seven figure millennials. And the name was alienated. Uh, yeah.

[00:29:56] Alexandra Watkins: Listers and an alienated gassed who were either past seven figures or not at seven figures yet, or they weren’t millennials anymore. So, or maybe they weren’t, oh, maybe they’re Gen Z. Brandon realized, he realized, I don’t know, 50 episodes in, it wasn’t really the right name for him. So he hired me, I, and I had been a guest on the show, he hired me to rename it, and it just, beyond curious.

[00:30:23] Alexandra Watkins: Just launched this week and I was the last so he saved my episode for months and months So I was the book and last episode of seven figure Millennials and I’m the first guest on Beyond curious because we talked about the name change and all the names that not all hundred names But a lot of the names I came up with and like, you know, we explore those and the whole process.

[00:30:46] Alexandra Watkins: So, okay

[00:30:48] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Very cool. And as we wrap up, um, I just want to take a moment to thank our sponsors. We’ve got, uh, of course, Money Penny, who’s helping you just crush it on not only the intake process using their virtual receptionist, but also you’re doing the live chat on your website. And of course, Get Visible, uh, who’s just, uh, cranking it out.

[00:31:06] Steve Fretzin: They’re doing some great work for me and great work for attorneys all over the country. And of course, we’ve got Overture. law. You know, overture law, just crushing it, helping attorneys make money and hand out work and in an ethical way, they’re just the rock stars in their space. Um, get involved with them now before it’s too late.

[00:31:23] Steve Fretzin: You can get your, your own state and practice area locked up and, uh, you just have to check out overture dot law. And of course, if you’re interested in grabbing my first book, Sales Free Selling, uh, don’t be shy. You just go to fretson. com slash sales dash free dash selling, pick up a copy. It’s the, you know, if you’re never going to work with me, that’s okay, but read that book because you’ll really get an understanding for my sales free philosophy, which I.

[00:31:48] Steve Fretzin: You know, talk about with just about anyone that’s willing to listen, because I’m sick of sell, selling, convincing, pitching. Those are dirty words to me. I’d much rather have you walk a buyer through a buying decision in a very comfortable relationship driven way. So check that out. And Alexandra, if people want to reach out to you, they want to eat their own words.

[00:32:07] Steve Fretzin: They want to, they want to talk to you about your services. Uh, what’s the best way for them to reach you? My

[00:32:12] Alexandra Watkins: website is eatmywords. com and I am alexandra at eatmywords. com.

[00:32:18] Steve Fretzin: Very cool. Thank you so much for being on the show and You know, sharing your wisdom and I, I am absolutely fascinated by what you do.

[00:32:25] Steve Fretzin: I’m jealous of your career. It’s one of the more fun things I get to do occasionally is help someone figure out their brand or their personal brand or their name. And I’m going to probably have to send them to you, but you know, for the, for the real deal, but you know, I’m, I’m like an amateur status, I guess is what I’m saying.

[00:32:39] Steve Fretzin: But, uh, just thank you so much for coming on the show and being, being my, my wonderful guest. My

[00:32:44] Alexandra Watkins: pleasure, Steve. Thank you for having me.

[00:32:46] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you everybody for spending some time with, uh, Alexandra and I today. Just, you know, I’ve got my usual page of notes. Um, I’ve got so many different things that, that are kind of going through my head.

[00:32:58] Steve Fretzin: I’m going to have to work on my brand now cause I’m, I’m getting some, you know, some swimming in my brain. But again, this show is hopefully helping you every, every time you listen to. Get a couple of takeaways to help you be that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized and a skilled rainmaker. Take care everybody.

[00:33:13] Steve Fretzin: Be safe. Be well. We will talk again very soon.

[00:33:20] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin. com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s Today’s show notes.