Andy Cabasso: Getting Found on Google

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Andy Cabasso discuss:

  • Focusing on the business, not just in the business
  • Why a law firm should care about their web presence.
  • Finding your unique differentiator (and communicating it properly).
  • Ways to increase your Google ranking and SEO.

Key Takeaways:

  • Your website is your only chance for a first impression with those who find you online.
  • Your client is looking to solve a specific issue. They want to know that you can help them with their very specific needs.
  • Getting your site organically ranked without paying for clicks is largely based on content creation.
  • Make sure you have a Google Business listing. It is free and it is the first step to showing up in local search results.

“It should be very easy for someone visiting your website, whether it’s on a mobile phone, or a desktop computer, or laptop, or anything like that, to be able to connect with you. Test this out.” —  Andy Cabasso

Connect with Andy Cabasso:  




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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

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lawyer, website, calls, marketing, law firms, firm, client, podcast, business, criminal lawyer, people, google, site, legalese, andy, hire, criminal law, important, rank, area


Andy Cabasso, Narrator, Steve Fretzin, Jordan Ostroff


Andy Cabasso  [00:00]

If someone needs to hire a criminal lawyer, they’re in a really bad way. And let’s say they either they get your information or they do a Google search Ma, come up with your website, along with 10 other websites that they’re checking out. Because if someone’s looking looking at you from a Google search, they’re also looking at other people.


Narrator  [00:23]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer, coach, Steve Fretzin, we’ll take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:45]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I hope you’re having a great day. Listen, it’s just crazy out there. I don’t know what’s going on. It’s cold here in Chicago. I’m doing zoom calls all day, my brain feels like a fried egg. But listen, it is never ending, we have to keep pushing forward. business development, marketing, branding, operations, it’s all there. And today, we’re gonna get into the weeds a bit on the marketing side, I’ve got a guest who I’ll introduce in a minute, Andy kabaah. So and before I get into that, I just want to thank our sponsors legalese, marketing, and money, Penny, both are partners of mine. I’m got Moneypenny on my website, doing some live chat. So if you want to chat with me, talk to Moneypenny on my website. And then once you get through them, you’ll get to me. And thank God for legalese. They are making my life easy, because they’re handling a lot of my marketing, so thank legalese. And the quote that Andy gave me is the best place to hide a dead body is on the second page of Google. We don’t know who that’s from Dewey, Andy?



No, I’ve heard that a bunch of times in memes, I guess, and things that people share. And people mentioned in like talks, and I’ve heard it a bunch. And it’s just pretty appropriate for SEO.


Steve Fretzin  [02:03]

Yeah, for SEO and for our conversation today. I think if you’re not on the first page of Google, I don’t know how far people are going these days, maybe page two, but maybe not. I might go to I don’t I don’t really go past page one. I don’t think



I think like 98% or something of searchers don’t go past page one. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [02:20]

I mean, between the real people and the sponsor people, if we want to break them down, it gives you enough, you kind of find what you need to find. Andy is the co founder of post Daga. He’s out in New York. And you’re a marketing guy. So talk to us a little bit about your background, or how’d you get into that?



Well, I’m a lawyer turned marketing guy. I years ago, I was in law school and applying to work at different law firms. And while I was doing that, I was noticing every law firm I was applying to had a really bad website, and just very bad internet presence. And I studied marketing and undergrad. And I figured there’s, there’s something I could do about this. And my college roommate from freshman year was at the time doing freelance web design work. And so I approached him, we started talking about working together doing web design and marketing specifically for law firms. And I started out as like a side project, I graduated law school pass the bar started practicing law. And then through our own marketing efforts, this kind of took off the agency, by the way is called juris page. So we focusing specifically on the legal vertical, and doing marketing for law firms, web design, SEO, all that stuff. And then, three years later, we got acquired by a larger company in the space uptime legal which does a variety of different things, outsource it, as well as document management and marketing. And then from there, I started post Daaga to help other marketers, agencies and businesses to help them rank better in search and do cold outreach.


Steve Fretzin  [04:03]

Got it? Got it. And it’s so funny how, how many law firms still have really bad websites. It’s it’s either they’re outdated as far as they don’t conform to the size of a screen, they don’t have any imagery that has anything to do with with what they do. It’s just three white guys, three, three older white guys on the front, where maybe it’s a guy holding a hammer because there’s something going on about hammers these days. And, you know, the Illinois hammer is my buddies, that’s okay. But But what’s going on? Why are they why are these websites so bad? And why are people not realizing that, that they should be making an investment in their image, their brand, and most importantly, how they either attract business or build credibility? I don’t think it’s all about just bringing in leads for some firms. It’s about



credibility. So I think the like the bigger issue is, like when you see like, Well, why is this firm not really investing in their web presence? It’s, well, why it’s not like that. priority. And they’re usually what I find is that the people that the people that are doing that are very focused in the business rather than on the business. They’re like they’re thinking this website, if I just spend time to get a website built, it’s not going to bring in money or pay the bills on day one. But right in front of me, I have cases or I have business development work that needs to be done to network and get new cases, and which will pay the bills and all that. And so that stuff like is front burner and marketing related activities end up getting on the backburner. And that’s why I think like, when you see a firm with like a very poor web presence, which are they’re not prioritizing it, because they’re focusing on other things. But it’s a it’s a long term investment. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [05:48]

And I think it’s also something where I don’t know if it’s an I don’t want to be ageist, but I think there are older, older people running firms just as an example who they they want, they think as long as their website has a phone number, that’s what matters. Like, hey, if all I use a website for is I go to the website, I see the phone number, I call the number, that’s what I use a website for. So on their law firms website, they don’t care if it looks terrible, it’s got a phone number. And I think it’s just like, Oh, my God, we’re what I don’t even know that my phone like rings at all anymore. It’s totally dead. Everything’s email web based, right?



I got it, I got a lot to say about this. So I hit her. There, when it comes down to it, in my experience, there are really two main reasons that a law firm should care about its web presence. One is that your web presence is your online business card. Because most often, when someone gets your name or gets a referral, they’re going to do their due diligence on you and check you up online. Because people hire lawyers in the most stressful situations in their lives, in some of the most expensive transactions they are going to have to deal with. And so they want to make sure this person they’re going to hire that just got recommended to them is going to be qualified and capable of handling my matter. And if they’re checking you up online, maybe they’re also looking up other firms in your area, and they’re going to compare you. But also like, from the clients perspective, if their first real experience with you outside of that referral is checking out your site and seeing it’s outdated, or just doesn’t show information that’s pertinent to them. That’s that’s the first impression, you only get a first you only get one chance to make a first impression. The Yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [07:37]

it’s like when I when I’m looking for a new sofa, and I go to a website, and it says under construction, or you can’t find the address of the store or anything like that, that’s just hard to find, because it just hasn’t been updated, or they just don’t care. Like I’m done like that store is out, I’m gonna go somewhere else. There’s other stores, I can go visit. And I think that’s what lawyers and law firms who are working on this stuff don’t realize a lot of it is ease of use, and isn’t getting you the information. I mean, just because you want a phone number doesn’t mean that’s what your clients want, they may want an email, they may want to know, like, what makes you unique in your space, and it’s not being shared.



Right? I mean, every single lawyer is a zealous advocate for their client. Right. Like, I just see that phrasing a lot. And well, that’s, that’s great. But so is the next lawyer and so are every other lawyer in your space. How are you more as LS of an advocate, then the person next door to you, you know? And so like, how do you stand out? How do you best connect with that client? Well,


Steve Fretzin  [08:40]

let’s let’s touch on that because I think an area that law firms struggle with and lawyers in general, most business people in general struggle with, what is their unique differentiator? What What about them is going to stand out? So I’m, I’m a criminal attorney, and there’s 1000 criminal attorneys in Chicago. Okay. How am I different are they’re doing the same stuff they’re doing, you know, the DWI, they’re doing this than the other. So what, what, how are you helping them? And I’m not saying to give a specific criminal attorney, but is there something that you’re able to help them with to figure out what that imagery should be? Or what that unique differentiator so it isn’t just, oh, you know, voraciously, you know, protecting my clients or whatever that is.



So, what I try to do is, I want to think about the experience from the clients perspective, right? If someone if someone needs to hire a criminal lawyer, they’re in a really bad way. And let’s say they either they get your information or they do a Google search ma come up with your website, along with 10 other websites that they’re checking out because yeah, if someone’s looking looking at you from a Google search, they’re also looking at other people. And like, the most important thing when it when it comes to that from what we’ve seen is, I know that clearly doesn’t with legal Trends report every year, and one thing that they showed you years ago, and I’ve shown consistently is the a lot of lawyers are not quick to follow up, then the single most important, I think it was the single most important factor, I hope I don’t get this wrong. Responsiveness is how responsive you are you respond within an hour or, like right away, that significantly increases the likelihood that you get retained. As a consumer. I’ve hired lawyers in the past, I’ve hired lawyers for m&a for my business for information and stuff like that stuff that I as a lawyer, don’t think that I am qualified to handle. And so I really want to hire and pay a lawyer for and from that experience, as a customer I’ve seen, I’ve seen like, what it’s like, and I know who I don’t want to hire. And I’ve worked with a variety of lawyers. And so I can say like, like, if I’m dealing with something that’s stressful, like buying a house or whatever, I want to make sure that the lawyer I’m going to hire is going to be quick and responsive to my questions. And if I’m looking them up online, I want to be comforted that they are going to be a qualified person to handle my specific issue. So we talked about criminal law before. One thing that would be particularly helpful is like, if you’re doing criminal law, you’re like, alright, well, it’s criminal law, having like practice area pages that are specific to different types of crimes that you handle. Now, you might be thinking to yourself, Well, like I do misdemeanors, and felonies I can do as long as it’s not like federal, some complex stuff like that, I’ll handle it. Sure. But your customer here, like your client that’s going to hire you, they have a very specific issue that they need to solve. They’ve got arrested for a DWI. And so like when you see those, like DC, specifically, DWI law firms, they’re doing this very intentionally and having a lot of success with it by having content geared towards that geared towards that client to show that client, this is our experience. Because when you when you hire our firm, you can, you’re going to put there that burden that you have this fear that you have on us because now we are responsible for taking this over and taking this on. Like so for criminal law, having things that like having information that’s pertinent to your the different types of matters that you take, even if it like if specific, that’s great. Things like social proof, like testimonials from other people.


Steve Fretzin  [12:24]

I think that’s what I would want to see, like, you know, somebody that has a number of their clients saying, you know, got me off, you know, and I was hammered or so I’m just kidding.



But like, no, but like, yeah, and I


Steve Fretzin  [12:35]

feel more comfortable that, hey, I’m in that same person’s shoes, right that this lawyer was able to help that way, like something that would matter to me.



Absolutely. If I’m visiting like five, let’s envisaging five DWI law firm websites, because I want to see what’s out there and make sure I’m making the right decision, the one that has a wall of fame, or whatever of client testimonials saying they got my case dismissed, and so on, and so on and so on, is going to be have a lot more favor for me than the one that has nothing to show, which makes me wonder, as a client, does this firm actually have significant experience in this area? Or did they just throw it on their website? And they say they


Steve Fretzin  [13:18]

do it? Something that I would add to and I talk with my clients on occasion about, you know, well, I help them write infomercials, and sometimes part of an infomercial in this could be translated to a website, potentially, but is talk is thinking about what your differentiator is. And lawyers generally have a hard time with that. So I try to walk them through a litmus test. And here’s the litmus test. Number one is, is are you saying something that no one else is saying? So if everybody’s saying that they, you know, rigorously, you know, work for their client, well, then maybe you don’t want to say the same thing. Because everybody’s saying that, or a lot of big firm lawyers say I’m a big firm lawyer, but now I’m at my own firm. It’s a small, slower rates. Okay, well, that was fine. 10 years ago, when you were the third person to do that. So I think number one is, is it something that no one else is saying? or very few people are saying? And then the second part of it is, is it something people care about? Because if you’re saying something unique, and then no one else is saying, but it’s not really important to them, I think you’re missing it there. So like a law firm here in Chicago made a big move where they identify that responsiveness was important. So they created a two hour return call guarantee, well, guess what? No other firms are doing guaranteed return calls. So a no one else was doing it and B do their people care about it? Yeah, responsiveness was like top of the list. So that’s just a great exercise to go through to try to figure out what you could be doing saying differently that might get attention or might get you the business more so than someone who’s just kind of going along like everyone else.



Right? Absolutely. I can’t agree strongly enough.


Jordan Ostroff  [14:54]

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Steve Fretzin  [15:42]

Well, let’s move to some hacks, because you and I were talking about how you know how important it is for people to have, you know, be you know, be on page one and having you know, you know, rankings and SEO, that’s all important. And maybe you can talk about why that’s important. And then let’s talk about some some hacks, like what could the individual attorney at a law firm or an individual attorney with his own firm, his or her own firm, like do to try to improve their situation as it relates to, you know, marketing their their website or or their law practice? Where do we begin? Begin with the content and ranking? Like, why is it important to ensure to get ranked,



so ranking is important because there are a lot of people every single day searching for lawyers, and in your, in your city, they are people are searching for lawyers, they are going to the first web pages that show up in Google, and they are calling those firms and they are hiring them. Like the thing, it’s like six of the eight most expensive advertising keywords in Google are related to law with mesothelioma. And like, I think it’s auto accidents and stuff like that are like the most expensive keywords. Because if someone searches for that term, and they see that ad, and they click that ad, the firm knows, if we have this, like this conversion rate from that, that $100 Click to them becoming a client, we know the case is going to be worth this amount of money. And here’s our return on investment. And there, there are some firms, especially in very consumer oriented areas, like auto accidents, and stuff like that, where they can be spending $100,000 plus a month on on search advertising, when like if you’re not, you know, ranking organically in search, the the way to get to the top of rankings is with paid ads, but paid ads are expensive they can be it can be anywhere from like 20 to a couple of $100 per click for more competitive spaces. So get getting your site organically ranked. So you’re not having to pay for clicks for ads, the way to do that is with is with creating content and taking certain steps to get that content to rank better Google’s algorithm for determining whether your site ranks better than another site. As a quick aside, one thing that I have heard this more than once, and so I want to I want to bring it up. A few lawyers have have said to me like, hey, so here’s my site, if I search for this practice, my practice area in my city or whatever, my site shows up on page two, but the site that shows up on page one at the top, they’re a terrible firm, I’m so much better than them. I’ve been in business so much longer. Why are they outranking? Me? And the answer is like Google doesn’t care or know that you’re a better lawyer than that, then this other firm, what Google knows is that cite that other law firm is creating a better experience providing more helpful information and is more valued in Google’s esteem and algorithm. So Google’s algorithm into into into determine whether your site ranks better than someone else’s. There are, as far as we know, hundreds of different ranking factors. One thing that we that we know pretty well has a very high correlation with your ranking is the amount the quantity and quality of other websites that are linking to yours. So if a bunch of other websites that are real websites, not things that you’re like paying on Fiverr for or that like those kinds of websites, real websites are linking to your website that tells Google that your site is valuable and is relevant. And so Google will reward you by increasing your search rankings for keywords that are relevant to your practice area.


Steve Fretzin  [19:41]

Yeah, and I think that’s so important. Because you know, when you appear on a podcast when you can get your article placed in a regular publication, versus just putting it on your site, all those backlinks from these credible places, link back to you. And that just adds the value of the rankings you’re gonna get on Google Are there one or two other hacks that and I use the word hacks, but I mean, just raid, right in other ways a ways to increase like for an individual lawyer could be a solo or small, firm, whatever anybody that wants to just make sure that they’re doing a little better. What what are what are two things that they should be thinking about or doing, you know, to, to, to get found in their area without having to pay per click on it.



So I guess if you’ve done nothing so far, at the very least, please make sure that you have a Google Business Listing, it’s free. It’s Google My Business or Google business or something like that. I keep changing the naming and branding of it, but have a listing for your your office for your business, fill out the profile, and that’ll start helping you get to at least show up in local search results. When someone searches for criminal lawyer in Chicago, if you’re a criminal lawyer in Chicago, you will have a chance to appear on those like map results that show up in like the first kind of area. But it can get a bunch of reviews too, right? Yeah, absolutely. And having reviews does help. I know, some lawyers gonna feel awkward about it. But it should be part of the process of your engagement. When you have a client at the end of the engagement, when they’re the happiest they’re going to be with you. Ask them for a review or have your paralegal ask them for review. This should be part of the process, say, you know, we’re, you can like candidly, the, the, the thing to say is, you know, we’re trying to get the word out and let other people know what the experience is like working with our firm, would you be willing to write a great review of your experience working with us? And if they say, yes, great, if you’re there with him in person, give them your iPad, so they can write a review, right then and there. I know, some some firms that have done that, but otherwise, like, get get, you’re gonna get


Steve Fretzin  [21:59]

you’re gonna drop off if you leave it up to them, right and send them on their way,



right? I mean, the longer the longer time between you like the engagement closing, and like the follow up about it, the less likely that you’re going to, you know, get that review. And so create your business listing. But I guess one other thing to think about, like, you’re like, alright, well, I’ve got a website, it, it looks good on mobile devices, this all should be a given you should have a website, it should look good on a mobile phone, you shouldn’t be having to like pinch to zoom in to see the text, it should be conforming to the size of your screen, which means that it’s your site is mobile responsive. Great. So another thing is like, alright, so you want your site to rank better in search. What I what I see like a lot of people do is like, they’ll write a bunch of blog articles, look, create a bunch of content, and just wait and hope their site ranks better. And that can work to some degree. But the thing that the people in competitive spaces are doing that you’re not doing is link building, they are getting up, they’re actively working to get other sites to link to them. See if one thing that you had mentioned was like things like podcasts. So what I do this for myself as well, I guess I’m effectively doing this today, right? You’re not hearing it right now, as we speak. This is exactly what I’m doing. I reach out to podcast hosts that are speaking to my target audience. I don’t, I don’t want to reach out to podcast that are like, possibly like, very inside or insulated. Like my practice area that’s geared toward other professionals. I want to reach out to podcast hosts whose target audience is my target audience. So if your criminal lawyer you like if you reach out to a criminal law podcast, the host is probably a criminal lawyer, or they’re going to want to have you on as a guest. Do you have something unique to offer this audience of other lawyer listeners? I don’t know. But you probably have a lot to offer something like let’s say you’re a real estate lawyer, you probably have something to offer a real estate investor focused podcast or something like that. So like reaching out to a podcast who has your target audience, and just the pitch is pretty simple. This is my pitch to Steve. Hey, I was recommended your podcast and I have an idea for an episode with me as a guest. Here are a few ideas and the ideas are relevant to your experience as well as their audience. This is especially important I have different every type of podcast that I reach out to I have different pitches. So your pitch to a real estate related podcast would be issues that come up in real estate closings or liens and I don’t know I don’t know. I don’t know real estate law but like specific Yeah, like issues that your clients face that you can speak about and


Steve Fretzin  [24:57]

but my audience is made up of attorneys who are interested in growth, they’re interested in marketing. So by having not only an opportunity to present yourself and your knowledge to my audience and get the backlink right from my site, which I think my generally my site is pretty, it’s pretty credible. I’ve got a lot of content on there. And I think I rank pretty well. That’s all positive for you for what you’re looking for.



Right? Like the two sides of that are, by by you appearing on a podcast, you get one you get exposure. I’m speaking to this audience. Hopefully you like what I have to say. And you maybe you’ll check out my website and my software that helps you do cold outreach for podcasts and other things like that. The second thing is the when of the backlink, hopefully, like hopefully, whenever you appear in a podcast, in the show notes, the they will link to your website for people looking for more information. And that’s how you get a link to your site. And if the podcast is syndicated on Apple podcasts, Google Play, whatever, you’re gonna get a link there to as well in the show notes probably.


Steve Fretzin  [26:00]

Now, should I be charging for backlinks? I mean, what is it $50 $100? Me What do you think in here? Because I think I might I might have been missing some revenue. You know, it’s funny, you’re talking about a criminal lawyer doing a podcast. It just made me think, you know, should a criminal lawyer do a podcast for criminals? We talk about a target audience.



I I don’t I got a question. When I


Steve Fretzin  [26:25]

come back. You might not get backlinks. Right. But you might get some business.



What’s the Who’s that? What’s that Democrat who’s who is the person who’s signing up for like, like, subscribing to a podcast that a criminal lawyer is talking to like, he’s telling


Steve Fretzin  [26:39]

you how to how to get out of crimes. I think that’s the the idea of the show. Is there. Bring on criminals to tell their stories be pretty funny. Anyway, anybody’s gonna steal that idea? By the way? I get some credit on that. Just yeah. Even a shout out. Well, listen, we are we’re kind of wrapping up on time here. Is there one more? You’ve got Google Business Listing and the reviews, we’ve talked about differentiators and making sure that you’re you’re unique in your space. And also the link building exercise, which we just went into detail about? Is there one more thing that you’d mentioned to people that they should be thinking about on their website, to maybe help with conversions? Because I think people are getting traffic to their websites, but maybe they’re not getting, like somebody filling out the form? Or maybe they’re not getting the phone, the phone call that type of thing?



Yeah, so I guess the thing should be, it should be very easy for for someone visiting your website, whether it’s on a mobile phone, or a desktop computer, or laptop or anything like that, to be able to connect with you the and test this out, like look at your website on a mobile phone, I’ve seen plenty of situations where lawyers like Well, here’s my website, and like, only have you looked at it on a phone, like from the from the phone, someone should be able to like, hover over and click your phone number and call you or they should like be very easily able to find a contact form to fill it out to reach out to you to get more information. And it’s like on the other side, it’s important that you are as we’ve mentioned before, very responsive, whether you have if you if you’re busy if you’re a solo practitioner and you don’t have time in the day, an answering service or something is going to be super like money Penny like


Steve Fretzin  [28:20]

bar and I was gonna say I’m sitting here I’m waving my hand at you because I’m like wait a second one of our sponsors is money Penny Yeah, Penny is is live chat on my website right now. So anybody that has a question for me about my show or a question about what I do or anything mani pedi gets the conversation going in if they need me to jump in I’ll jump in otherwise they can just let me know and direct someone to connect with me to get an appointment. Also they do the the reception so one of my I referred my aunt to my favorite real estate attorney she called him got I think either a voicemail or got the got the the assistant who said he’s busy, you know, can I take a message but by the time all that went down, she went and hired a different real estate attorney just in that short time. So I think that’s where we need to have these conversations about you know, how we’re how we’re doing intake or how we’re how we’re, you know, getting things to convert because if they’re not converting that’s all that all those leads all that time all the money you spend on the website and everything it’s not it’s not it might be for nothing or for very little



absolutely and this is kind of drives me crazy because doing legal marketing for a long time I would like like we would install a one thing I would recommend also is you can have their sites like call rail is one of them they they set up call tracking so that the phone number that appears on your website is a tracking number so that when someone calls that number it’ll go into your like you’ll get analytics and reporting to say like we got this many calls from the website this month. And like I could see I could see it Oh wow. The we got 50 calls from from paid Search Ads this month. And so we can say like, like these calls specifically, you can say they came from paid ads and these 50 like these 50 calls cost us this amount of money. And I see you didn’t answer the phone because you were in court, or it was off hours. Did you call them back? And I’ve heard this more than once. Oh, well, if they were, if they were really interested, they would call me back. Yeah, right. And I get that you don’t want to be playing phone tag or anything like that. But it’s very likely that the person who, you know you didn’t get back to within 24 hours is going elsewhere and you for all of the effort that you spent, whether it’s on paid ads, or spending time and effort on content and working on your website. That’s all just that can be just wasted if you’re missing out on these opportunities that are presenting right to you.


Steve Fretzin  [30:56]

Yeah. Well, Andy, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and in giving us some insights on how to improve your website and conversion and all of that, before we wrap up. What’s What are you? What’s your joy? What do you what do you what do you love to do when you’re not busy helping lawyers improve websites and do better with their SEO?



I’m raising a two year old right now. And it’s awesome. And watching her discover and explore the world and trying to get her into my music is a lot of fun,


Steve Fretzin  [31:27]

which is what’s your music? Third Wave scarf? Third wit now that that’s interesting. That’s a that’s an offline conversation we’ll have to have. But listen, thanks again. I appreciate it. And yeah, I got my son into classic rock from a very young age. And He now plays electric guitar and all that. And I just love that he’s playing, you know, sweet child of mine, you know? And yeah, I mean, all these classic rock songs, and I hate to be an old fuddy duddy. I just I’m not a fan of a lot of the new music. Some of its good, but some of it a lot of it’s not, and he doesn’t really listen to it. I think he really likes, you know, the 8070s 80s and some of the 90s. But yeah, the big



the big moment for me was my wife asked my daughter, like, what’s your favorite song? And she said, Mighty Mighty Bosstones. That just that was my year. That was it.


Steve Fretzin  [32:20]

Awesome. Well, thanks again. I appreciate you taking some time for us, and you will be getting that backlink. That’s thanks. Thanks to you. All right, very good. And hey, everybody, thank you for spending some time with Andy and I hopefully you got a couple of good tips and ideas. And if they want to get in touch with you, what’s the best way to reach?



I’m pretty easy to find on the internet. My name is Andy Capasso. Twitter at Andy kabaah. So LinkedIn is Andrew kabaah. So my website is post That’s p o s t And if you’re interested in doing cold outreach, or either link building or podcasts and stuff like that, you can try out our software of give you a coupon code. It’s podcast five, zero and it’ll give you three months 50% off. Nice,


Steve Fretzin  [33:03]

very good. Very good. Hey, everybody, listen. It’s all about being that lawyer. Someone who is confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care, be safe, be well, and we’ll see you again soon.


Narrator  [33:18]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes