Angela Dunz: LinkedIn – A Relationship-Building Tool

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Angela Dunz discuss:

  • Diving into LinkedIn now, even if you didn’t get started from the beginning.
  • How LinkedIn is different from other social media platforms.
  • Client-focused LinkedIn profiles.
  • Optimizing your LinkedIn, cleaning up keywords, and being clear about what you do.

Key Takeaways:

  • LinkedIn is more than a database, it’s a relationship builder. It is a business development tool, not just for job seekers.
  • LinkedIn is the only consciously designed B2B platform on the planet.
  • Build your strong personal brand and back it up with a strong professional brand – that is how you become a standout rainmaker.
  • LinkedIn searches are word only – get your keyword in there as many times as you can.

“LinkedIn is about your ideal, entry-level client. Make it focused on who you serve, the problem you solve, and the results that you bring, and you’ll have a much better chance of winning on LinkedIn.” —  Angela Dunz

Episode References: 

The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks:

Connect with Angela Dunz:  




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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

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Narrator, Angela Dunz, Steve Fretzin, MoneyPenny, Jordan Ostroff, Practice Panther


Angela Dunz  [00:00]

The other mindset problem that people have is that they really believe that LinkedIn isn’t going to work for them, and that it’s all about them.


Narrator  [00:14]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for thrilling a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer, coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:36]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin, as the announcer mentioned, and I hope that you’re someone that’s ambitious and interested in growing your law practice bringing in new clients, whether you’re seeing a recession, not seeing a recession, it doesn’t matter. It’s all about the book of business. It’s all about how you’re controlling your future, through having your own clients and not relying on your partners in your firm and others to feed you business. You need to be in a position to, you know, be sustainable, be portable, whatever you want to call it. And that’s what this show is all about. Be that lawyer someone who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker, and if you thought that I was going to disappoint you today, well, I’m going to disappoint your disappointment and thought, because I’ve got into Angeles like what the hell did he just say? Angela, welcome to the show. How’s it going?


Angela Dunz  [01:27]

I think it’s a little bit cold here in California, but by your terms and Chicago, you know, I’m just being a big baby.


Steve Fretzin  [01:33]

All right. Yeah. Let me let me just wipe the tears from my eyes. Not that was a thing. Never. We used to say that not that’s very I don’t that’s 80s I think it’s 80s. Maybe it’s Simpsons. Is that like Simpsons? Or no? Oh, I can’t remember. Oh, no. But welcome to the show. We’ve got some lovely wonderful, delightful sponsors that we have to take a moment to acknowledge we’ve got practice Panther helping you to be automated and technology advanced, technologically advanced as a relates to how you manage your law practice. We’ve got money Penny, who’s who’s taking the receptionist, you know, weight off your shoulders, and, of course, legalese, who’s helping you now basically, outsource all your marketing and you don’t have to do that yourself? I don’t, you shouldn’t either. And legalese is the target and the place to go. We’ve got a quote of the show, Angela, before I announce you more formally, that I just want to bring up and your quote is from famous, wonderful Arthur Ashe, start where you are, use what you’ve got, do what you can, and I like it.


Angela Dunz  [02:34]

Good stuff there. It’s, you know, and I think it’s especially true for LinkedIn, because everybody thinks they’re like, five years late to the party and grossly under dressed. And how do I ever catch up? And you don’t you just dive in? Just dive


Steve Fretzin  [02:50]

in, just get started people. I think lawyers in particular have that analysis paralysis, where they overthink everything instead of just like even LinkedIn, which we’re going to get into, like, really, really heavily today, because that’s your jam. And I think that they just make a huge mistake of waiting and like, I don’t know what to post or I don’t know, watch a couple videos, talk to Angela, talk to me read a chapter in my book, rocket science, whatever it might be. It’s all there. All the informations there, and you don’t have to, you don’t have to wait on it. So Angela, you are. Angela Dunn’s is the founder of cowgirl creative coaching. And you’re a LinkedIn specialist. And I’d love to hear your background on how you came to be because I think you were heavily into academia for a while right in your Madison. I picked up


Angela Dunz  [03:34]

on that. I moved to California with my shiny new MBA to get a CMO or a director of marketing position somewhere and that never happened. And I stumbled upon an entrepreneurial incubator center called the Renaissance Center. And I wrote curriculum for them curriculum. I have a master’s in curriculum from Edgewood, so yeah, heavy, heavy academia, two masters. And I wrote curriculum for all the over 40s who weren’t getting hired back to corporate America back in 2010. Now, one hour of that, we called it encore printers. It was a whole 12 week course half days on a Saturday on how how do you start your own business if you’ve always been an employee? Now one hour of that was LinkedIn. And the older people that were in the class were like, No way. We’re never going on social media. We’re done. And the other half of the class was like, You mean to tell me this is kind of like having a free website? And I was like, yes, exactly.


Steve Fretzin  [04:37]

You’re much, much better than that, though. Right? I mean, from a job search perspective, and the things we’re going to get into today. I mean, it’s far better than a website in many ways.


Angela Dunz  [04:46]

It’s a searchable database. It’s a relationship builder. Right.


Steve Fretzin  [04:52]

So how did you move this so it was that sort of your be that lawyer tipping point of like realizing that the power of LinkedIn and that you wanted to sort of fall Because in that arena,


Angela Dunz  [05:01]

well, what was interesting was at that time nobody was using. They weren’t consciously using LinkedIn as a business development tool. It was still stuck in that, oh, it’s just for job seekers category. Yeah. And everybody told me I was going to starve if I was going to try to help small businesses, build their business using LinkedIn, but I stuck to my guns, and I built a really nice business.


Steve Fretzin  [05:27]

Yeah, it is something that, you know, I just, I love that you’re a specialist and I have been teaching LinkedIn, I want to say since around 2007, so that’s a long time to be teaching it, then it’s always evolving, but I’d never like pushed all my chips into specialized, it’s just a part of what I do. But I think I probably go, you know, a mile wide and an inch deep, where you’re probably going very, very deep in,


Angela Dunz  [05:49]

I’m going a couple of miles deep,


Steve Fretzin  [05:50]

you’re going a couple of miles deep. Okay. So let’s go back to social media generally. I mean, the social dilemma was something I watched and was in shock, you know, just of how we’re being manipulated by social media. And I don’t want to go down that rabbit hole fully. But you know, social media Friend or foe, I think maybe attorney see LinkedIn, no different than Facebook, or Instagram or Twitter as a big rabbit hole of or a big mess of social media. So how do you see social media? And then how do you pull LinkedIn aside?


Angela Dunz  [06:25]

Well, that’s a super interesting question. You know, I refuse to use Facebook or Instagram for my business. Okay, use them. I’m semi addicted, like many people are, but it’s really just personal. Yeah. And my big deal is we all have to empower ourselves around social media. Yes, the social drama Israel, the algorithms are geared towards manipulation. And on Facebook, and Instagram, it’s really all about getting you to spend money. It’s all about, you know, serving up whatever you looked at the Internet something,


Steve Fretzin  [07:04]

or just or just, by the way, or just spoke about randomly with someone in a room. And all of a sudden, right now I’m getting ads for you know, you know, like, say, a smoker. You know, I wanted to get into smoking meat. Now I was, I didn’t tell Google about that. I haven’t searched anything yet. It’s popping up. And so it’s crazy.


Angela Dunz  [07:22]

It’s scary. Here are the facts. There are a lot of analytics that say that LinkedIn isn’t even social media. If you look at HubSpot, they don’t show up in the analytics a lot of times, you know, it’s going to be Snapchat and Tiktok, and YouTube and all of that. But LinkedIn doesn’t even make the chart. It’s a little bit different. It is the only consciously designed b2b platform on the planet. Yeah, that is what makes it different. Now, if we use it in the right way, you know, I don’t necessarily want to know what you had for lunch yesterday, Steve. But if you want to share a personal story that relates back to resilience, or winning over incredible odds, something like that, that is a personal share that does belong on LinkedIn. Yeah, I have a friend that posted something. I think it was last week, November is National Adoption. And her two boys are adopted. And I think she’s got about 100. And some comments on that post so far, you know, and it’s a horrible picture it you know, it’s it looks like it was purposely done sepia tone, but it’s just because it’s not in great shape anymore. But things like that connect us as people. And the way I looked at LinkedIn is it is a relationship building tool. It’s not a conversion tool. That’s one of the biggest mistakes people make. Don’t think about it as a conversion tool. No one on LinkedIn wants to be sold to, you have to get them off the platform for that.


Steve Fretzin  [09:05]

But isn’t. But let’s stop there. Because that’s what’s happening, like, at an insane level right now is that in the messaging piece, someone’s figured it out that they can just bombard me with messages that look like they want to be my friend. But really, they want me to hire them as the coaches call, you know, to the coach coaches, or they want to sell me on marketing or they want to sell me on something and I’m getting upwards of maybe three to five of those a day.


Angela Dunz  [09:31]

Yes, me too.


Steve Fretzin  [09:32]

So that’s going on and I’m not ruining LinkedIn, it’s ruining it. I agree. I agree me, we already get email stuff. And I don’t mind that if somebody wants to try to send me an email, you know, I can just hit unsubscribe or spam or whatever. Right. In some cases, they may actually hit a trigger and I’m like, okay, but on LinkedIn, it’s like that’s a sacred place. And just to give another example, might the best post I ever did was a father and son holding a baseball bat. To gather, talking about do we want to make LinkedIn, Facebook, people are trying to make LinkedIn Facebook, where they’re sharing personal things. And I wanted to get everybody’s take on it. And I think I had, I don’t know if it was 15,000 views and hundreds of comments or whatever, because my fear was, I don’t need another Facebook. All right, I don’t need to know what you had for lunch. And I don’t need to know that your son was playing baseball. Now, if you want to relate it to a business, to your point earlier, if you want to relate it to a business event, adoption and how that relates to your business, or that relates to some thing about your personal that people should know. Okay, but I just don’t want to I don’t want it to turn ugly. And I’m afraid it’s going that way a little bit. Well,


Angela Dunz  [10:41]

I’m friends with one of the people who writes the algorithm report every year, okay. And there are human beings that are behind all of this. So when a post gets to a certain point, where if the tone detected in AI gets to be a little belligerent or confrontational, human beings actually get involved. And if it’s political, or offensive, or inappropriate, it gets pulled. And people get put in LinkedIn jail. Now, that gives me some comfort, okay, you’re not going to catch everything. But they are actually policing, LinkedIn. Now, here’s the shocker for you, pre pandemic, the activity on the in the newsfeed on LinkedIn was 30 to 40%. Baby Boomers, and hey, policed themselves. I mean, that’s what baby boomers do. Post pandemic, it’s 10% or less. And you can tell?


Steve Fretzin  [11:39]

Yeah, so did they just sort of give up because it was too, there’s too much.


Angela Dunz  [11:43]

A lot of them have retired or semi retired, or they’re sitting on boards, and they really don’t want to have any social media presence at all, because it’s too political for whatever board or nonprofit they might sit on there for years, but they are not participating.


Steve Fretzin  [12:00]

Okay. So I know one of the things I wanted to pull out of you today is in we’re going to get into this for the next, you know, 15 minutes pretty heavy as lawyers are there are many lawyers that are either on the fence or they’re actually using LinkedIn on a daily or weekly basis, but they’re not maybe using it properly. So what’s the best use of LinkedIn from your standpoint? And then the follow up question to that is going to be there are people listening right now that are at big firms, there are people that are solos and everything in between? And they may have a different opinion about it, because the big firm people, you know, maybe their firm is doing a lot of posting, and they how do they fit into that? Because their firm is the brand? Not they’re the brand. And maybe that’s, I think that’s a misstep. But let’s get into that.


Angela Dunz  [12:41]

It’s a big misstep. Now for solos, how else are they going to stay visible? You know, they need LinkedIn to even if somebody only looks at their profile, and that’s all they do on LinkedIn, set it and forget it, make sure you have a very strong client focused, clearly communicated. What is the problem you solve? What is the audience that you serve? I mean, I happen to know a lot of immigration lawyers, but they all focus on different things. Some of them focus on helping people get married to people who are not native. Some of them focus on criminal activity. How do you defend immigrants and keep things fair? Some of them are focused on employment, you know, if you’re a big employer, and you’re trying to get top talent, and it happens to be from India, or the Philippines or South Africa, or wherever it is, how do you get those people here illegally and keep them here and keep them safe? Right. And there’s a lot of family law stuff. So immigration is a lot of different things. It’s not cut and dry.


Steve Fretzin  [13:53]

But it has to be put on the you have to it has to be clear on LinkedIn exactly what you do and the problems that you deal with day in and day out. So people know they should follow up and take the next step.


Angela Dunz  [14:03]

Yes, so for attorneys, it’s twofold. Very clearly and simply in lay terms, what do you do? And number two, stay top of mind with your referral partners.


Steve Fretzin  [14:18]

Okay, so connect with your referral partners and then how do you mean keep keep tapping SAPA minor in touch with them?


Angela Dunz  [14:26]

Send them a message, okay. It’s a quarter at the very least. Okay? No. Work anniversaries. You were mentioned in the news. You had a big case. No, congratulations, birthdays. I saw this article and I thought of you. What do you think what’s your take? Just involving them in meaningful ways?


Steve Fretzin  [14:47]

Okay. Got it. Got it.


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Steve Fretzin  [16:17]

So big firm, an individual at a big firm that has a big name, but they ultimately need to brand and marketing business develop themselves anything specific on LinkedIn that they should be focusing on other than a great profile.


Angela Dunz  [16:34]

Don’t wait for the crumbs to fall from some other partner or the business development team. Dear Lord, how are rainmakers meet, they have a strong personal brand, that is backed up by a strong professional brand. Now that’s where the magic happens. And if you ignore the personal branding, and you’re special, something, something, whatever it might be, and even introverts have it, they just need to get very clear about it. And I heard somebody say the other day that 60% of attorneys are introverts. That was mind blowing to me. You know, they’re the ones that really pay attention to subtle details and pick up on things that other people don’t. So find out what your superpowers are as an attorney, whether it’s listening, or whether it’s being a tiger in litigation, whatever your superpowers, and how can you really let people know about your personality? How is that going to help somebody who’s trying to win a case or somebody that really needs a tiger on trademarks? Because there’s a bunch of people competing for similar space?


Steve Fretzin  [17:43]

Well, they don’t want to talk about themselves, like they most lawyers, other than a couple of personal injury attorneys, right that we see up on billboards and such, many of them, don’t, they don’t want to brag or talk about their wins or whatever. But is that is that something that they should be? You know, if it’s legit, that they can do it? They can’t call themselves experts, but they can, you know, put up different things? Or is it more about educating is more about talking about, you know, the charity they’re doing with their firm? Like, what are the things that they should be putting out there that they should be doing week in and week out?


Angela Dunz  [18:19]

While the personal interest is definitely it? What charities are you involved with? That goes a long ways, because there’s still a huge stigma against attorneys, and especially from the people who need the most. And so making themselves look like an actual human being who’s part of the community, who cares? Who is doing something about some of the bigger problems that we have right now, whether it’s, you know, getting stray dogs and cats off the street, or, you know, getting hot food into kids lunches, at school, whatever it might be. Yeah. But that’s one of the biggest ways that they can really make themselves look personable, and approachable. The other one is all of us are afraid to ask an attorney a question about anything, because we’re afraid of really being stupid. So the more you can educate me about your particular brand of law, your sweet spot, you know, if it’s family law, tell me what I need to know to protect myself. You know, a lot of us are going through really crazy things right now, the pandemic has brought out the worst in some people. And attorneys have never been more needed to sort it out. You know, with businesses within families in there’s so much stuff going on. Make yourself somebody who I can approach easily and have a conversation with to solve my particular problem. And I know or have the idea that you’re going to listen to me and be fair. Yeah, and I like when


Steve Fretzin  [19:55]

lawyers find a topic. I’ll give one example one of my clients who He’s talking about some old legalese, you know, Old English type of legalese, that the language that they’re using that, you know, in 2022 doesn’t really make sense that they’re still using some language that’s like, from 200 years ago, or whatever, or long or older, right? And he kind of went off on a rant about it. And he got a lot of engagement because other attorneys felt the same way that yeah, this system in the way that this language is, this makes no sense. And why are we changing and evolving? Is it right? No one understands it, and it’s so but he brought, he found something that wasn’t controversial in a political way, or religious way, he found something that was controversial within the lawyers in the legal realm. And I thought that was so bright that he did that. And he ended up getting a tremendous amount of engagement and getting his name out there. And I think that’s just, that’s the kind of stuff that I think lawyers need to really consider is, where can they, you know, kick in and rant about something or kick in and do a poll about things that are maybe, you know, questionable, and get that engagement. And


Angela Dunz  [21:03]

even if you don’t feel comfortable doing that, and that’s brilliant, by the way, that’s absolutely brilliant. You know, if it’s something that everybody feels no one is talking about cert, the conversation. But if you don’t feel comfortable, I tell people start where you do feel comfortable, you know, find something on Harvard Business Review, or Business Insider, or Inc, or entrepreneur, that has something to do with what you would do. You know, even if it’s a horror story, or a success story, something like that. And then if you can share client stories, no names, no details, no industries, nothing like that. But just, you know, a client came to me, and here was their challenge. This is what we did for them, whether it was contractual, or whatever it was that they needed to do. And then here was the result for that person, you know, the peace of mind, you know, things went smoothly from there on, you know, they mitigated whatever that huge problem was, with some simple contracts or whatever it might have been agreements, in a mediation Whatever had to happen. Yeah, it’s sometimes much simpler than we think. But we avoid things until they go wrong. If somebody could speak to that, that’d be a b2c topic.


Steve Fretzin  [22:25]

Yeah, I like that. So one thing that I picked up from our previous conversation and from the the intake form that you filled out, preparing for our time today was about optimization. And most people know when they think of that word optimization for a website, like certainly search engine optimization. So you get found on Google and stuff like that, when you talk about LinkedIn, what is optimization? And why is that something we need to start getting more familiar with?


Angela Dunz  [22:50]

Oh, my gosh, for attorneys, it’s absolutely critical. LinkedIn is kind of like a intranet inside the intranet with its own algorithms and its own crawlers in search engines. And it is designed as a searchable database to connect the right people for the right opportunities. Now, I’m going to just about guarantee that every attorney listening to this has got words in their skill section for things that they’re never going to do. And they’re being found for those things. That’s the downside of optimization. So cleaning up the keywords in your profile, and being very clear on what you do, and who you serve. And the problem you solve can help you get found, you know, we don’t look any farther than the top three, or the top five. When we do a search on LinkedIn, we don’t look any further. So if you’re number four, or number six, or number 10, or number 100. LinkedIn isn’t working for you.


Steve Fretzin  [23:55]

He knows when you talk, but I apologize. And when you talk about optimization, then keywords are you talking about under your name at the very top of your LinkedIn profile? Are you talking about underneath that?


Angela Dunz  [24:07]

The headline, yeah, the headline, the crawler second, read your entire profile. Okay. And I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you an example. It’s a little extreme. But I worked with a gentleman and he said, Angela, I hate LinkedIn. I’m only getting hits for technical writing. He spent 15 years in Silicon Valley writing technical manuals for tech companies. Now he’s an organization development, and he has to change all of his top skills and functions to things that are soft skills and transferable skills. Once we did that and cleaned up his whole profile, he started getting hits for the right thing. Okay, so the optimization is super real. Now there are three places on your profile that are much more heavily weighted. for key words, your headline directly We blow your name is one of them. The skill section that I mentioned before is that’s like your freebie, right there. Yeah, 50 strings of words. You know, if you’re an immigration attorney, make sure the word immigration is in there 10 times immigration law, immigration, family law, whatever, however, you need to express that, but there’s not really a limit on the length of the strings of words. And LinkedIn searches are word only. So get that word in there as many times as you can. Okay. And then the other one is creator mode. And for a lot of attorneys, I don’t recommend creator mode. Because the downside of creator mode is it gives you five hashtags that are weighted very heavily in a search, but it takes away the connect button, and it gives you the Follow button instead. Now most people don’t know that if you go to the More button over to the right, and hit the drop down, you can connect with them directly. But following is such a benign thing. I don’t know why LinkedIn thinks it’s an advantage to put the Follow button there rather than the Connect button. Right? They do.


Steve Fretzin  [26:16]

Yeah, well, they must serve some purpose and confusion. Okay, well, there you go. Well, that’s a purpose. That’s the purpose that I usually find myself. And quite often, let’s sort of wrap up before we get to the game changing book, three tips or things that we don’t know about LinkedIn that can help us to be better at using it or getting results using it.


Angela Dunz  [26:40]

LinkedIn is a mindset. And a lot of people have this mindset on that LinkedIn is overwhelming, that it’s frustrating that it’s not user friendly. And as soon as you change your mindset, and say, I’m just going to do these couple of simple things that are within my wheelhouse, I feel comfortable doing them, you know, I have the content, or I have the time to birthday greetings, whatever your simple marketing strategy is, you figure that out. And then you put the blinders on to everything else. Okay, here focusing hyper focus. Yes. Okay. Number two, the other mindset problem that people have is that they really believe that LinkedIn isn’t going to work for them. And that is all about them. Yeah, number one mistake. LinkedIn is about your ideal entry level client. Make it focused on who you serve, the problem you solve, and the results that you bring, and you have a much better chance of winning on LinkedIn. Yeah, that’s great. I would add that


Steve Fretzin  [27:56]

there’s really a couple of key things here. One is the brand building, right getting your name out in front of people and being consistent with your posts and people know me that I’m I’m posting, you know, maybe once or twice a day, but consistently, and that’s a legalese. Outsourcing situation, I create the content, and they put it out on LinkedIn. And then if there’s something specific, I want to write like I did a top 10 list of things I’m not thankful for. after Thanksgiving on Thanksgiving, I did what am I not thankful for? You know, peeps, slow drivers in the left lane. It was a whole shtick, okay, that’s fine. I wanted to go the other way. Everybody’s posting about what they’re thankful for, I want to say what I’m not going, right. So that kind of stuff I do, because I don’t expect them to be in my brain. No, and you know what I’m going to write. The other thing is the business development side that there are ways to connect with strategic partners with direct clients to start conversations. And it’s not being used anywhere near to the capacity and degree it could be, especially for introverts that don’t want to attend networking events, well, take 30 minutes a week and just stick your laptop on your lap and start looking through. You know, if you’re a CPA and you want to meet, you know, doctors, well then start looking up doctors or started looking up who connects to doctors, maybe that’s, you know, medical marketing companies or medical HR companies or medical, whatever, and start trying to figure it in just trying to connect with those people with a custom message. And it’s a business development tool very, very easily. That doesn’t take a lot of time.


Angela Dunz  [29:25]

And then once they connect, send them a welcome message. Yeah, thank you so much for connecting whatever their first name is, I’m glad to have you in my network, or welcome to my network. 80% of the time, somebody will answer back and now you have a conversation going. There’s That awkward moment when you get that first that connection, that cold connection. What do you do now? Send them a welcome message. Thank them, acknowledge them for connecting with you. Yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [29:57]

exactly. Let’s transition to To the game changing book that you are recommending, this is what I haven’t heard of. So I’m really excited to hear what your what your two cents are about. It’s called The Big Leap.


Angela Dunz  [30:09]

My business development coach recommended that I read that book back in September. And, you know, we all reach a certain point in our business where we have our own glass ceiling up above us. It’s a personal limit of whatever, you know, I can’t be any bigger than this. I can’t earn any more than this whenever that glass ceiling is for ourself. You know, I can’t handle any more clients. I can’t scale any further than this. Whatever it is, the big leap is all about changing your mindset and expanding that out in a very consistent, incremental way so that you can break your own glass ceiling and continuously grow and develop whatever that means for you. Yeah, that’s really great. Who’s the author of that? Guy?


Steve Fretzin  [31:01]

Guy, Hendrix Gay Hendricks guy, Henry Hendricks. Gay Hendricks Okay. Well, really great stuff. If people want to get in touch with you, Angela, to learn more about your business, how you work with attorneys on their LinkedIn, what’s the best way for them to reach you? LinkedIn. Okay, and it’s fascinating when ZDZ last name, Angela Johnson,


Angela Dunz  [31:25]

one of the advantages of using creator mode is that you have a clickable link available at the very top of your profile. So they can use that credit that clickable link and get right onto my calendar and have a conversation and ask a question. It’s just a coffee chat. It’s just a way of getting to know another human being. So I highly recommend people look me up and use that link.


Steve Fretzin  [31:50]

Well, really awesome. I appreciate you taking some time and sharing your wisdom. I think LinkedIn is it’s becoming more of a necessity than an option for lawyers, I think there’s very few ways to get the word out about what you do and how great you are without saying you’re great. And, you know, different ways. And of course, is a business development tool, which I’m all about. So they’re both important. But if you’re just not using it, I think it’s like, it’s like, here’s what, here’s the example I would give to take your smartphone, and I want you to throw it in a toilet and walk away. Now who would do that and go back to a corded phone that you’re stuck to your desk or rotary phone, which half the people listening don’t even know what that is. Okay. That’s how powerful LinkedIn is. It is the greatest networking business development marketing tool, I think that’s ever been created for individuals and businesses, and you’re just not using it. I think that’s a pretty big


Angela Dunz  [32:39]

misstep. And I think if they focus on two things, it’ll keep it a little bit. Yes, here. Yeah. So credibility and visibility, whatever that means for you. If you focus on those two things, it’ll feel a lot more comfortable.


Steve Fretzin  [32:58]

Yeah. And I think that’s it make it comfortable and you know, focus on a couple things get in I think it’s also habit building you just get into a habit or routine of it. Or again, outsource it if there’s someone else you know that you can that can help you do it and knock it out paralegal assistant, VA whatever. That’s going to play the play the part. Well, thank you so much, Angelo, I appreciate you taking your time and spending some some you know, you know, time with us and getting all this great information out.


Angela Dunz  [33:22]

Awesome. Thank you so much for having me, Steve.


Steve Fretzin  [33:25]

Sure. And thank you everybody for spending some time with Angela and I today just a deeper dive into LinkedIn which I think is really critical and helping you to be that lawyer someone who’s competent, organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care everybody be safe be well, we’ll talk again soon.


Narrator  [33:43]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes