In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Barbara Kaplan discuss:
- The importance of storytelling in building a compelling professional brand
- How lawyers can identify and attract their ideal clients
- Strategies to overcome self-doubt and inner critics in professional development
- The role of niching and differentiation in legal marketing and client acquisition
Key Takeaways:
- Lawyers can strengthen their marketing by identifying a compelling client success story, positioning the client as the main character who overcame a challenge, and sharing that story across platforms like LinkedIn and websites to attract similar clients and build trust without feeling like they’re selling.
- Defining an ideal client involves a clear understanding of that client’s pain points, values, lifestyle, and behavior patterns—often revealing shared traits with the lawyer themselves—so they can intentionally market to and attract more of the right fit.
- The Red Velvet Rope theory empowers lawyers to direct their time, money, and energy only toward clients who align with their values and expertise, allowing them to build a more satisfying and profitable practice while filtering out those who dilute their brand.
- Overcoming inner critics and self-doubt requires recognizing limiting beliefs like “I’m not good enough” or “no one will call,” and deliberately reframing them with empowering self-talk and bold action steps, such as finally launching a business or asking for high-value referrals.
“Facts tell, stories sell because of the human connection… You want the client to see themselves in the story you tell.” — Barbara Kaplan
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About Barbara Kaplan: Barbara is Founder & CEO of BSK Strategies, a business development consulting practice. Lawyers and law firms hire Barbara to guide them in building their brands, winning new and higher-value work, establishing thought leadership, and developing innovative strategies and approaches to distinguish themselves in a competitive and uncertain marketplace.
She has over 20 years of experience helping clients define, pursue, and win the business they want. Barbara has worked with firms of every type and style, each with a unique culture and set of challenges. She is devoted to helping them make that skill second nature.
Prior to founding BSK Strategies, Barbara held senior-level marketing and business development roles at a global AmLaw 50 firm, as well as small and mid-sized firms, making her uniquely skilled at walking in the shoes of her clients.
Connect with Barbara Kaplan:
Website: https://www.bskstrategies.com
Email: [email protected]
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barbarakaplanprofile & https://www.linkedin.com/company/bsk-strategies
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I’m Steve Fretzin, and you’re about to enjoy a wonderful episode of our show where we take top rainmakers and legal experts to help you build a practice that you’ll love if you’re ready to be that confident, be that fulfilled, and yes, be that lawyer. You’re in the right place. Let’s dive in and enjoy the show.
Narrator [00:22]
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, hey everybody.
Steve Fretzin [00:45]
Steve Fretzin, here and welcome back to the be that lawyer podcast. We are here for your listening pleasure and viewing and reading. We’ve got it all. We’ve got the be that lawyer book. We’ve got the be that lawyer podcast. We’ve got blogcasts on my website if you want to read some upcoming modules or podcast debriefs, if you will. And we are here to help you be that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. And occasionally, not always, but occasionally, I bring back a guest who is absolutely delightful, one of my favorite people in the world, and by the way, also has a ton of value to share with you, and that is my friend, Barbara. How are you doing?
Barbara Kaplan [01:20]
Barbara, I’m doing really well, and thank you for that huge compliment. Yeah, well, I think
Steve Fretzin [01:25]
that’s something we do for each other. We take our egos and we go, let’s jack them up a little bit, you know. And let’s because we’re both terrific. We both love each other, and I think there’s nothing we can’t do to help lawyers, and our willingness to put ourselves out there for that. So there was a quote that you start that you sent me, and I love it. It’s something Maya Angelou and all that, and then you gave me a better one, not better in the sense that it’s better, but better and different. And that hasn’t been on the show before. And I want to read this quote. I want to get your take on it, because it’s really, really lovely and very true. Don’t be intimidated by what you don’t know that can be your greatest strength and ensure that you do things differently from everyone else, and that is your favorite, Sarah Blakely. So welcome to the show. Welcome back after three years, and tell us a little bit about that quote.
Barbara Kaplan [02:09]
Well, Sarah Blakely is kind of my icon. She’s just this amazingly unstoppable woman who has never, has no self limiting language, has never let anything get in her way, and always turns a disadvantage into an advantage. Always turns a problem into a solution. And I just I admire her very much. So if you’re intimidated by somebody who I don’t know outpaces you or appears to be more successful, stronger, richer, whatever, let that be your motivator. Let it be the things that gives you a kick that says that I’m not letting that happen. Just abuse yourself of all your self limiting language. Fire your inner critic and use it as a motivator to keep plowing forward and keep your vision on what it is you want to accomplish. Don’t entertain distractions. Yeah, it’s an inner critic to the door.
Steve Fretzin [03:02]
Yeah, it’s the scariest stuff that we overcome, that I think defines us as professionals, as people, as humans. And you know, there was a time I was terrified of roller coasters, and now I forced myself to get on a roller coaster. And then once I got through that first roller coaster, and I’m in Chicagoland, where we’ve got great America not too far from me. And then that was the easiest one. But then I was like, what’s next? What’s harder, What’s scarier? And I just kept going and going, going next thing, you know, I hit them all. And I was like, okay, so this was just me being, you know, afraid of losing my stomach. Okay, well, you lose your stomach. That’s part of the thrill of it is losing your stomach, but it’s it that’s just, you know, there’s, everyone’s got those examples of overcoming the head trash and the scary things that happen in our lives and and I really appreciate you, and I know you were scared to come on the show, so this is you overcoming. You’re not scared everybody. Barbara Kaplan, one of my favorite people in the world is a CEO and founder of BSK strategies. How did you get into working with lawyers? Give us your background.
Barbara Kaplan [04:00]
I love Are you all ready? I love lawyers? Yes, you heard me right, which is why I repeated it. I just think that lawyers are quick on their feet. Very funny. I love how they think and sort of you know, the trajectory of their thought process. They would surprise all of you with the things they do extracurricularly, the, you know, scaling mountains, having a band doing and actually, 60% of lawyers, according to the ABA, are introverts. So when you can help somebody get rid of that and step forward with confidence and stand, you know, feet firmly planted and articulate. What makes them great, what sets them apart, what makes them different, what makes them unique. That’s a huge achievement for them, yeah. And then for me, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [04:52]
So I think you and I are very similar, a loving lawyers. And then that were weird because of that. And then number two is, I think. You and I both feel very strongly that our success is through our clients. It’s their success that drives us and that makes us happy. Like, I don’t get up to like, oh, you know, what can I do to, you know, to, you know, to, I mean, I do, and you do a lot on our own, but it’s like, I want to hear a client close a big deal, or I want to hear of a client get over that million dollar marker to the multi million like i That’s what drives me every day, is that, are you feeling the same way?
Barbara Kaplan [05:25]
Exactly, that’s the transformation, yeah, which is a perfect segue into our topic today. Was this about storytelling? Yeah, transformation occurs.
Steve Fretzin [05:34]
But Laura, I mean, it’s interesting. Like my father, the late great Larry lawyer. I think he was a great trial attorney great at storytelling, and there’s a skill to that in court. And then when you think about like, the marketing side of it, you know, and whether it’s, you know, perfectionism, whether it’s just not being able to like, realize that this there, that a lawyer’s story is critical to how people believe and trust and want to do business with them. So why do lawyers struggle with that piece of it when they’re sometimes very good in court doing that?
Barbara Kaplan [06:07]
First of all, I have to say that I would match my father, the lawyer to your father. Okay, my late father to your late father. Yeah. Why is it different from the stories you tell in court?
Steve Fretzin [06:18]
Well, not different in that way, like they’re comfortable, like building a story and making a case, and like, in coming up with creative ways of doing things, but when it comes to maybe self promotion or coming up with, like, their story and how they, you know, create their marketing, they’re just like, oblivious to A, that it should happen and B, what how to make it happen.
Barbara Kaplan [06:37]
Part of it is what we just said, I think, which is the introvert part of a lawyer’s personality type. Birds do not step forward willingly to promote themselves. There’s also sort of this digital thing from when you and I were kids, that lawyers weren’t even allowed to sell in quotes and they weren’t allowed to promote themselves. And I think that that has in some implied way carried itself through. Okay, but if we as coaches and consultants can help lawyers get comfortable with talking about what they do, how they do it, who they do it for, and why it should matter in a you know, sort of, it’s a humble pie kind of way of doing it, everybody’s comfortable. And it doesn’t come across as bragging. It comes across is sharing information, having a conversation, connecting with somebody, having them learn about you, having you learn about them, it prompts questions.
Steve Fretzin [07:29]
Yeah, and I understand intuitively, there’s a relationship between branding and storytelling. How would you explain that? And then, in other words, how do they intersect and interact?
Barbara Kaplan [07:39]
Well, a story is the connection between your brand and your audience and story. So when you think about a brand, a brand is what differentiates you, sets you apart, makes you unique, stands out, and as we all have heard people say, it’s what you want people to say about you when you’re not in the room. So it’s got to stand on its own and be really stable and strong. Consider it the foundation of the house, and you can’t put in the floors, in the windows and the gutters and the roof until you’ve got a really stable foundation. Then you can add the other things, and you’ve got this wonderful arsenal of tools to choose from. The Power of Story is stories most powerful one, because it enhances your brand. It extends your brand. It gives it added credibility, and it enables you when clients and prospective clients can see themselves in your story, then they think, Oh, he’s got me. He understands me. He knows me. He’s walked in my shoes. And it’s just when you leave the because selling is such a sensitive topic for lawyers, and it’s really kind of a cringy word. Think about that you’ll never have to sell again because your story will do it for you. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [08:51]
And I think the other piece of it is lawyers want to work with people like them that share the same values. And I think what you said earlier about when they can connect with your story and see themselves in your story, and you’re in what’s, you know, what you’ve put out there that maybe attracts the right types of clients. Is that a part of it?
Barbara Kaplan [09:08]
That’s exactly part of it. And when you do an exercise about, you know, how do you identify your ideal client? What are the characteristics and attributes of your ideal client? When you’re done with that exercise, they always look like you.
Steve Fretzin [09:21]
What are some elements of that exercise? If there’s a lawyer listening that says, you know, I want to get more clients like my best client. I want to get clients that are more like me, that are going to be like all these clients that I love and appreciate and that don’t, you know, hound me about my fees, or don’t, you know, argue every point. What does that exercise look like?
Barbara Kaplan [09:40]
Well, one powerful thing to do is to ask a client for a referral and just say to them, you know, you’re my favorite client. You’re my ideal client. These are the reasons why I love working with you. Is there anybody else like you who needs someone to do X, Y and Z? I would greatly appreciate that referral. Yeah, asking for a referral, but. The other is to identify the characteristics of that ideal client, like, what is their pain point? What is the problem that they need you to solve? What is the crisis? How can you turn their pressure into peace, their confusion into clarity? And you know, sort of, where do they live? It’s really about things that are in a sense, cosmetic, like, where do they live? Where do their kids go to school? Where do they hang out? What do they read? What are their sources of information? It may be something religious, it may be something political, but they’re going to be a lot of things that are aligned, because it just works out that way. And then there’s this implicit, kind of wonderful, almost emotional connection that happens.
Steve Fretzin [10:40]
Yeah, well, I think that’s what we all want. Is we want, like, I’m looking for lawyers who are as motivated as I am. Like, I’m motivated every day to grow, to brand, to help lawyers, and I’m looking for lawyers that have that share a similar passion for wanting to build and wanting to grow and wanting to serve. And so I think that’s what I’m attracting. And I’m think I’m putting it out there that I’m hustling, like, I just met with a guy today. Shout out to Tom if he’s listening. And he just, you know was we had talked five years ago. He’s got the book, he’s got the podcast. And then he’s like, Yeah, and I want to work with you. And he was like, I didn’t have to sell him a thing, because he came to me ready to basically go. He’s like, how do we do this?
Barbara Kaplan [11:18]
Well, kudos to you, because I always say the marketplace tells you who you are, and if the people who are coming to you are the people that you want to come to you, you are showing up exactly as you want to.
Steve Fretzin [11:30]
Yeah, I’m not dealing with any crazy people. I’m not dealing with any egomaniacs. I’m not dealing with really anyone that is that turns my stomach or that say, well, that’s not someone I want to really deal with. And so my life, and when we say we love lawyers, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we’re attracting the best and the brightest. You know, people that are coachable, right? You can’t. Those are the people that I’m coachable. You’re coachable, right? And we want to, and we’re bringing in people who are
Barbara Kaplan [11:57]
and we want to work with people who are really motivated. Because one of the great things about being a coach or a consultant to lawyers is you are giving them control over their careers and their future. They can, in a sense, in quotes, own their clients, and if they don’t have that control, then somebody else is going to pick up the reins and describe what they’re like and sort of brand them, and it’s not going to be the brand that you want. So if you really want to control your career and your future, you have to really understand who is your ideal client. You have to have you ever heard of the Red Velvet Rope theory?
Steve Fretzin [12:30]
Well, that’s, yeah, I’m assuming that’s like, you know, everybody wants to be in the red velvet rope.
Barbara Kaplan [12:34]
Well, it’s a Michael Port theory about business development. And you have, you know, envision that you’re inside a red velvet rope, and everybody that’s inside there with you are the people that you want to work with, or that you want to want to work with you. That’s where you put your resources. That’s where you do your business development. Everybody else is marginalized on the outside of the red velvet rope, not for any other reason, except that they don’t fit the definition of your ideal client. So if you have excess capacity, or others on your team do then, of course, you’re going to take that work, but where you’re going to go looking for work, where you’re going to put your resources, your time, your money, your energy, is the people that you want inside your red velvet rope.
Steve Fretzin [13:15]
This is why it bothers me so much when I meet with a lawyer, or I’m in a networking event, and a lawyer will say, well, and you know, I do in employment, so really, you know, anyone can work with me. No, well, you boy, you were quick to say, No. I wonder why? No, no, that’s the right answer. You knew it inherently right away, in millisecond, because it drives me nuts, and I know it does to you too, but let’s explain to people, maybe more about why that is such a terrible thing to say in a networking environment.
Barbara Kaplan [13:47]
Because you want to own a niche. You want to be to be very easy for people to understand what you do and understand why they should come to you, or why they should send others to you. And if you’re you know, a grocery store and you can do it’s one stop shopping. It’s not a specialty. It’s not something in which you have bench strength, it’s not something in which you have years of experience. It’s you really need to own a vertical and be known for that. Yeah, so, I mean, I’m in Philly, and there used to be a lawyer at a firm named called Decker, who was the authority on the planet for antitrust law. And the minute anyone in Philly said antitrust, Joe Tate’s name came up. Yeah, that’s what you want. He owned that. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [14:41]
Hey, pi attorneys, if you’re serious about scaling your firm, there’s one event you can’t afford to miss, Pim con 2025 happening October 5 through the eighth at the Phoenician resort in Scottsdale, Arizona. Pimcon isn’t your average legal conference. It’s an experience. Learn how to take your firm from good to goat with some. The biggest trailblazers in the PI space, including yours truly, as we share our elite marketing and brand building strategies. Tickets on sale [email protected] that’s p i m, c o n.org, or just hit the link in the show notes. Your climb to the top starts at pimcon 2025 let’s go from good to go. You. Hey, be that lawyer friends. If you’re looking for smarter ways to grow your law practice and want to stay ahead of the curve in legal, tech, business and strategy, then it’s time to check out legal verse media, the go to hub for lawyers who want more. This international platform connects you with global thought leaders through articles, podcasts, webinars and interactive forums that are shaping the future of law, explore everything with a free 14 day trial, including early access to tools peer discussions and a chance to build your brand as a thought leader. Don’t wait. Visit legalverse media.com and register for membership today. Hey everybody, it’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law of practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you. And let’s make this your breakout year. And you’ve shared with me, you know how powerful storytelling is, but how do you unpack that? For people who don’t have a story, they don’t they have a story, they haven’t done anything with their story, their LinkedIn story free. Their bio page story free. They’re infomercial, you know, where I’m going, how do they? Where do they even, you know, begin, we’ve kind of covered the ideal client, but that’s not the story.
Barbara Kaplan [16:48]
Or maybe it is. No, it’s a story. Okay? Just don’t know it’s a story. So if you start asking open ended questions, tell me about the last great success you you had for a client. Tell me about what that client came to you for and the steps you took to help solve that problem. Tell me about how that client defined success and what success looked like at the end of the engagement. Talk to me about the various steps from the time your phone rang or that client showed up at the door and they’re telling you a story. They just don’t realize they have a story.
Steve Fretzin [17:21]
So is the story about the work you do, the results you get, the successes you’ve had, because it also could be confused with, Hey, I was in a plane crash. You were in a train crash. Is that our story, or is that story? How that led to me working with lawyers? Is that the story like, how do people where are we going with all the different options and varieties of what a story could be when
Barbara Kaplan [17:42]
we first learned storytelling decades ago, you and I, it was always about telling clients and prospective clients what was so great about what you do, how clever you were as a problem solver, how persuasive you were as someone who would argue on their behalf. That’s not what storytelling is today. So think about Jaws, think about et think about Star Wars. Storytelling today is exactly according to the structure that Steven Spielberg and George Lucas use when they do their movies. It makes the client the hero. Unfortunately, we are not the hero in a client’s story. We are the puppeteer, we are the orchestra director. We are the flight controller. We’re managing all the strings, getting all the people together, controlling how they interact, you know, giving them the roles they should have, so that we all get to the solution. But it’s not about you at the end of the story, the client who came to you with a problem looks like a hero, and it’s because of the structure of something called Story brand. The story doesn’t change. The structure of how you tell the story changes, and your client walks away looking like a hero, either to their staff or their employees or their family or their neighbors or their shareholders, and then the person listening to you tell the story can say, Oh, my God, I want people to feel that way about me. He may look like a hero. I want to look like a hero. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [19:11]
Do you have an example of that you could share that would just kind of put a fine point on it?
Barbara Kaplan [19:15]
Sure. So a client of mine had a client, or has a client who was a very, a really good businessman. He owned his own business, and he was also trained as a lawyer, and he wanted to sell his business and move on. And he figured, I can do it myself. I don’t need to hire a lawyer. I’m just going to do this. And he spent months and months and months, and the valuations came back. You know, they were all below water. They I mean, it was just so stressful for him, and he thought, I’m going to walk away and have nothing after all these years. And then he got smart enough to hire my client, and came to him with this terrible problem about, I’ve got this successful business, it’s not worth anything. And so my client took on. A role of in a story brand context. It’s called a guide. And he brought together all the people that needed to be brought together, the valuation experts, the forensic this, the particular kinds of bankers, the operations people, all the people that needed to come together their respective roles. Talk about niches. Each owned a niche and was called in for their expertise. And he was the puppeteer, and he made sure all the right pieces were there. They came in when they were supposed to. They left with so to all you lawyers out there, that’s your role in this kind of story. You are the orchestra conductor, and when all was said and done, he left the deal with 10 times more than the valuation appeared to be when he hired my client. He looked great to his kids. He looked great to his employees, because that the company. They still had jobs. Great to his family, because now they were set his kids could go to college where they want. I mean, you can just extend this, yeah, but he was the hero
Steve Fretzin [21:01]
the clients, the hero to all the people that benefited from this. And the lawyer in the story has that success of the client, and that’s the story, correct? Yeah, I love that.
Barbara Kaplan [21:14]
So to the client, who’s the hero? You look like a hero everybody else who matters to this client. He’s the hero.
Steve Fretzin [21:24]
And I want that lawyer because I’m selling my business. I heard this great story, and that’s what I want in my lawyer, and that’s how I hire that lawyer.
Barbara Kaplan [21:34]
I want my kids to know they can count on me. I want them to know that all my hard work and dinner’s missed and school nights missed? Yeah, it’s going to come back to them.
Steve Fretzin [21:44]
Yeah, let’s wrap this up, and we have a few minutes, but I know this is going to take a few minutes to unravel. But so lawyers who don’t tell stories different than lawyers who achieve through storytelling, what the difference? What is the difference? What’s the dirt? Someone that has a story and that can build a brand around it, versus someone who is just academic and like, this is what I do. This is the firm I’m with. This is what I do. And like, that’s their story. Is just who they are, what they do, as opposed to someone who can, who has those successful clients. And it’s, it’s been articulated on their website, it’s been articulated in their LinkedIn, that those stories,
Barbara Kaplan [22:22]
facts tell stories sell because of the human connection, because the client, you want to tell stories that relate to the claim you make in your brand, and you want to tell stories that a lot of prepositions there, in which the client can see him or herself. You want the client to see themselves in the story you tell. That’s my situation. That’s exactly my problem. He gets it or
Steve Fretzin [22:47]
she gets Yeah, but facts tell, stories sell. That’s something people need to really write down and think about. You know, you’re giving an infomercial, and it’s academic, right? I do this, I do this, I do this. This is, you know, my background. Those are the facts. But what’s the story? Right? It’s not there. How do you help people with infomercials? Because that’s where I think a lot of this is missed. I’m hearing some of the worst infomercials ever on a regular basis. Lawyers just going through, like, a menu of the things they do. And I just like, put my head down and can’t believe, Oh, yeah, thanks for sharing me those 12 things I remember nothing.
Barbara Kaplan [23:28]
Well, that’s true, you’ll remember nothing. And what we’ve talked about is that stories and brands are the things you want people to remember when you’re not in the room. I think it also depends on what kind of what type of law you practice, okay? I mean, if you’re a personal injury lawyer, you’re going to tell a very different kind of story than you are. If you’re a business lawyer or a mergers and acquisitions type lawyer, there’s just going to be a very different kind of story, yeah. And you’re talking to a very different audience, so you have to match your story with the audience. And I know you’re saying because anyone can read the Yellow Pages, right, right?
Steve Fretzin [24:03]
I think there needs to be some kind of opening that gets attention. I feel like there has to maybe be some pain points or some things that you know, like you were sharing about, you know, how the client wins, and how we, you know, really try to, you know, help them be successful, and how, you know, pay it forward and help others and maybe something around maybe what makes you unique in the space is that too much?
Barbara Kaplan [24:24]
No, and you can do it in two seconds or 90 seconds. Yeah, okay, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [24:29]
And, um, I mean, I hate to do this, because it’s but it is the real deal, isn’t he? I mean, I think there’s some value to utilizing something like a chat GBT to put in some information and hear what it how it comes back to you. I did an exercise with my provisors Group here in Chicago. We had a contest, an infomercial contest, and I said everybody, Hey, you know, put in everything into chat. GPT, I don’t care if you read it or say it, and the person who ended up winning. And. Read it from her phone, and was still strong enough to beat out 20 plus other people in this group to win the infomercial contest, because it really got to the essence of her story and why she does what she does, and how it ends up saving people a lot of stress. She’s in the HR space.
Barbara Kaplan [25:18]
So was it the did it inject emotion into it. Oh, yeah,
Steve Fretzin [25:22]
emotion in the feelings we have with employees, and how scary it is to be surrounded by people who might want you know that are great today, but are they gonna be great tomorrow? And how do we prepare for, you know, the worst in in her world, in HR? Mean, it’s great. It’s great to have someone in your corner when something goes bad. It’s even better to have someone protect you from things going bad. And I think she really got to the essence of that. But I don’t know that she would have come up with it on her own without a little help.
Barbara Kaplan [25:49]
And it also, and I agree with you and chat, GPT is really great for that, assuming that the prompts that you feed it, yeah, are the right prompts, but it also, from the way you’re telling it plugged into something that’s going on for everybody today, which is uncertainty, just not knowing what to do, what not to do, what’s going to, you know, cause somebody to react, and we just don’t know. And it seems like chat GT kind of got that.
Steve Fretzin [26:12]
Yeah, it did. I again, I can’t say it’s the be all, end all, but I think for especially for lawyers, who are struggling to sort of figure out a solution to something not simple, but something that may end up being simple, is to plug a bunch of prompts in there and see what comes out. And you know, one thing that I’ll give as a prompt too, that I think is really helpful, is put the prompts in and then say, Do you have any questions for me before giving me? You know that you’d like to ask before giving me a response. And then it asks you three or four questions, it gets it even more fine tuned, and then you get a response. You’re like, Oh my God, that’s spot on. So good stuff all around. Hey, help us out, Barbara. There’s a segment we’re doing right now called Barbara’s big mistake, and something that happened in your career life that you’d like to share and what you learned from it would be a great way to kind of wrap things up today. People for years
Barbara Kaplan [27:01]
had been saying that I should go out on my own, that I should leave the law firm space where I had cmo and director of marketing positions and go out on my own. And I kept saying, This is my inner critic, you know, and all that self limiting language, no, I’m not smart enough. They’re going to find out I’m not that smart. No, I don’t have the skills to do that. Nobody’s gonna My phone’s never gonna ring, all the things that we say to ourselves. And then one day, I just woke up and I said, I gotta do this. I just have to know. And I did it. And it was really a lot of conversations with my inner critic, it was. And I finally just got to the point where I moved it from the driver’s seat to the passenger seat, and I said, Okay, I’m doing this. Yeah. And it was kind of like a Sarah Blakely quote, you know, I just, I saw a lot of people around me who were successful, but that didn’t mean that I couldn’t use that as a motivator for me.
Steve Fretzin [27:51]
Yeah, it’s very funny. I had the opposite. I was confident I was going to own a business. My father put that in my head to be an entrepreneur very early on that, you know, he always worked for himself. The funny thing is, I had friends who I tell them. They’re like, that’s a terrible idea. Don’t do that. So I was, like, trying to convince them that I should now, when I see my friend Noel, I always put it in his face. 21 plus years later, he’s still at a job, and I have my own business in love every day.
Barbara Kaplan [28:18]
And what a tribute to you that you’ve had this friend for 21 years? Yeah, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [28:22]
Now I just know I tell them to go suck it and and we move on and have some cocktails together. It’s all good.
Barbara Kaplan [28:27]
May I steal 60 seconds? Yeah, sure. I have a one sheet that I would love to give out to anybody who’s listening on the power of story that really speaks to the kinds of things we’ve been talking about today. May I just give my email address?
Steve Fretzin [28:41]
Yeah, well, email address will be in the show notes, but give it out verbally too.
Barbara Kaplan [28:45]
Okay, Barbara, B, A R, B, A R, A at, B S, like in SAM, K, B, s, k, strategies.com, yeah, and if you email me having listened to this, I will send you this wonderful one sheet to really help you
Steve Fretzin [28:59]
a lot. Yeah, fantastic, fantastic. So let’s wrap up. Thank our sponsors. Of course, we’ve got the law her podcast with Sonia crushing it. Pimcon is happening in October in Scottsdale, Arizona. I will be on stage talking about podcasts. So go figure, podcasts are talking about podcasts and to personal injury attorneys from around the country. And of course, legal verse, one of our newer sponsors, who is amazing and gonna you’re looking for more of an international edge in your practice, and you want to, you know, read articles from all around the world, from lawyers and legal experts. That’s where you go for that. And Barbara, again, appreciate you giving out your email. Any other you have a website, anything else you want to share with people?
Barbara Kaplan [29:38]
My website is BSK strategies.com I also encourage you to go to my LinkedIn profile. I publish regularly a lot of great blog posts on the kinds of things that we on, things that are very topical and actionable that you can learn from. So please check out my LinkedIn as well. Barbara s Kaplan, yeah,
Steve Fretzin [29:55]
well, I would be remiss if I didn’t say what a pleasure having you back on the show. And getting to hang out with you and talk shop, because I think you and I have different approaches with the same end goal of helping lawyers that we love, to be their selves, to actually be that lawyer. If you want me to come full circle with it, I will not shy. But thank you so much, and let’s and I’m looking forward to seeing it provisors meetings and all that kind of fun stuff moving forward. And thanks again for coming back. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you everybody for hanging out with Barbara and I for 30 minutes or so. And, you know, go back and listen, take some notes. I mean, there’s a number of things that Barbara mentioned that I know will be really critical for your story and for how you differentiate yourself and your space. And I think niching down and all the things that she shared all so critical and valuable. So take to heart and take action. That’s the most important thing, is to take action. And, you know, take what you learn on this show and do something with it. Don’t just listen, you know, on the sidelines, do something with it. And obviously, if you guys ever have any questions for me, I’m at [email protected] you can always reach out. Thank you, everybody. Take care. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again very soon.
Narrator [31:06]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal, business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.