What if your legal career could shift from unpredictable to unstoppable simply by changing your approach to relationships and opportunity? In this special Part 1 of Be That Lawyer Live, you’ll hear how our guests weave business development seamlessly into their daily lives, turning everyday interactions into potential gold mines. You’ll discover how being intentional, showing up in the right rooms, and giving more than you take can open doors you never saw coming.
This conversation isn’t about quick hacks—it’s about building a sustainable, thriving practice while staying authentic to who you are. Stay tuned, because what you’ll hear today could completely transform the way you think about your career.
In this episode, Steve, Tina, John, and Leslee discuss:
- The mindset required for consistent and effective business development
- Time management and prioritization strategies for building a book of business
- Networking and relationship-building approaches, both in-person and online
- Leveraging unique strategies, associations, and presentations to generate opportunities
Key Takeaways:
- Integrating business development into daily routines—such as keeping a recurring BD calendar reminder—ensures consistent action and prevents missed opportunities.
- Targeting groups, associations, or events where competitors are absent can create unique opportunities for both direct work and valuable referrals.
- Building a referral-rich network through bar associations, community boards, and alumni groups can yield substantial long-term results.
- Creating and offering a targeted, educational presentation to relevant audiences can consistently produce new clients.
“Seeing the opportunity even when it looks when it doesn’t necessarily look like opportunity is what’s so important here.” — Tina Martini
“If you don’t make the time to build your own book a business, you are always going to be beholden to someone else.” — John Sciaccotta
“Anyone is a potential client, and that just has to always be in your mindset.” — Leslee Cohen
Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, launching August 25, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.
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About our Guests:
Tina Martini is a partner at McDermott Will and Schulte, specializing in intellectual property. [LinkedIn | Website].
John Sciaccotta is a partner/lawyer at Aronberg Goldgehn, a business litigator, and past president of the Chicago Bar Association [LinkedIn] | Website].
Leslee Cohen is the managing partner at AllRise Legal, working with startups from seed to exit [LinkedIn | Website].
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey everybody, Steve Fretzin here, and I’d like you to imagine getting direct access to a business coach who’s helped 1000s of lawyers dramatically grow their law practices without ever sounding like salesperson. I’m Steve Fretzin, and my new podcast be that lawyer Coaches Corner with Steve Fretzin is your personal on demand coaching session. I’ll share proven plans, language and techniques that work in the real world of law, helping you develop the book of your dreams. This first episode drops on August 25 don’t miss it. Be that lawyer
Narrator [00:36]
you’re listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, Hey
Steve Fretzin [00:58]
everybody, welcome to be that lawyer live. We are here with a rock and roll panel to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. We’ve done these be that lawyer live before, and they’ve gone off so well. We’ve got a live audience here that’s going to be dealing with polls and asking questions. In addition, we’ve got a bunch of questions ready for this amazing panel, hand picked, hand selected, not only from my network as the best, but also from the book. Be that lawyer, 101 top Rainmaker secrets to growing a successful law practice, which is available on Amazon and 55 star reviews, everybody. So check that out, best selling book. And it’s all because of the folks in the room today. Some are in the audience, some are here on the panel. But no matter what the case is, we’re going to have some fun today, maybe even some laughs. What do you guys think? Should we have some laughs too? Do you have a good time with it? Sure. So serious. John, Okay, excellent. All right. Well, as you guys know, this show is all about helping you be that lawyer, and we are going to be spending a good amount of time with our panel, asking them a lot of questions, but let’s get to know our panel first. To start us off, we’ve got Tina Martini. She’s the partner at McDermott will and Emory. Tina say hello and give everybody a little bit of your background.
Tina Martini [02:11]
I’m Tina. I’m a partner McDermott will and Emory based in the Chicago office. I’m an intellectual property partner specializing on the soft IP or the non patent side of the practice, which includes domestic and international trademark and copyright law as well as domain name, internet, social media, advertising, unfair competition and entertainment law. So pretty much a soup to nuts. Trademark and copyright lawyer, in addition to the work I do for clients and the intellectual property space, and relevant to our conversation today, I spend a lot of my time leading client relationships and client service teams at McDermott across a wide variety of practice areas as well as a wide variety of geographies, including everything from employment, trade secret, regulatory litigation and investor disputes and corporate restructurings to real estate and financial transactions. I’d say I spend over half my time serving as a relationship partner in some pretty key and strategic client relationships for the firm. I’ve also served as an expert witness on litigation matters in my practice area, and have had a number of leadership roles over the years within and it’s outside the firm. In addition to being a practice group leader, I’ve also led other initiatives as well, and I’m actually going to be starting to serve as an ABA Commissioner after the ABA annual meeting in August. And thanks very much, Steve and to my co panelists for the conversation today.
Steve Fretzin [03:48]
Yeah, and Tina, while all of that is fine and good, there’s one thing that you missed around the be that lawyer podcast. What is that?
Tina Martini [03:58]
I’m an author or co author, you’re frequently on be that lawyer. You and I have known each other for many years, almost 20 years now.
Steve Fretzin [04:06]
Well, that is somewhat right. I’m going to give you the answer, because you didn’t pull it out of the hat. You were the one who actually got me set up as a podcaster because I did your podcast. And then I said, How do you do this? And how do you produce it? And you said, I don’t do any of that crap. I give it all to turnkey. And I was, like, done. And from that moment on, I was I took the bait, and that’s it’s been a bliss ever since. So that’s your true claim to fame. Not everything else that. You said, okay, okay, we’ll keep it at that absolutely wonderful. Tina, thank you so much for being here and coming back and joining us. Let’s go to John Sciaccotta, who is a member and partner at Arenberg golden and former president of the CBA,
John Sciaccotta [04:46]
just ended my term on June 27 so I’m a past president. Thank you so much for your service association. So yeah, thank you, Steve. I am so excited to be here. I am so enthusiastic about this time. Topic, it is great to be with Christina and with Leslee and with Steve. I’ve been a lawyer almost 40 years. I’m a Business litigator and a business lawyer, and I primarily focus on business related disputes, but I’ve had my hands in all different types of litigation and and business transactional matters for almost 40 years. I serve on the firm’s executive management committee. I’m also co chair of our marketing committee. I have either chaired or co chaired marketing committees for the last 30 plus years. So this is an area that I love. I enjoy. I love speaking about it. I love educating other lawyers and giving them some insights and perspectives as to how to be more effective in building your own practice. I’m very proud to say that I was the first person in my family to go to college, let alone law school. So I started at ground zero, okay? And looking back on it, I’m very proud and humbled to say from Ground Zero, we’ve made some considerable progress. So it’s such an honor to be here, and I’m so excited for today’s presentation.
Steve Fretzin [06:16]
Thank you so great to have you, and you and I have known each other. I think your firm was the first law firm I ever worked with as a lawyer coach. I didn’t tell you guys that when I met you. I didn’t know you were the guinea I didn’t realize it at the time, but I’ve developed some amazing long term relationships with many of the members of your firm. It’s been absolutely wonderful. So happy you’re here and a lot to cover today. And let’s wrap up with our final panelist, that’s Leslee Cohen, managing partner at all rise legal, one of my favorite people, and also one of the top networkers I know, and in my provisors group, North Shore one. So say hello Leslee, and great to see you.
Leslee Cohen [06:52]
Great to be here. And what an incredible panel, like, very, very impressive background. So I’m really, I’m humbled to be part of it. So my all rise legal counsel. We were based in Chicago, but we practice nationwide. We’re now 10 lawyers and three paralegals, and we represent startups from seed to exit. So we help them when they’re just organizing and forming. And then we go through all the different pre seed, seeds, Series A, Series B, fundraising rounds, day to day contract review and negotiation and mergers and acquisitions. I spent 20 years in big law and then left to start my own firm for a whole bunch of different reasons. We don’t have to go into at this moment, but I what I really love, that I think is going to make for great conversation, is that all three of our practice areas are completely different, and I think that’s really cool, and I’m excited to learn from Tina and John as well.
Steve Fretzin [07:46]
Yeah, like I said, we’re going to cover a lot of ground today, and we’ve got a live audience here in the wings. Many of them are clients of mine, which I’m so happy that you guys joined us and took out your time to do this. I know you’re going to get a ton out of it. And also just want to mention, we’re going to be, you know, if you have a question and you’re in the audience, just please do the Q and A or do the chat. Put it out there. If we we may throw some polls your way. We’ll see if we’re able to do that, but we will try. I think, though, there’s no better place to start in this conversation about being a rainmaker and how to really change the course of your life by making business development, client develop, men and personal branding and such a part of your career, it’s not separate. It’s together that you have to have the right mindset. So let’s start with Leslee, and let me ask you this, and then we’ll move around. What does having a client development mindset mean to you? How do you intentionally build it into your daily or weekly routine?
Leslee Cohen [08:40]
So it is, it’s funny, because I had zero clients, zero until I was 42 years old when I started the firm, and then it was and it became my everything. So I was just at a breakfast, and someone gave this answer, someone asked a question, and the person answered, because I had to. So that’s really what happened to me, was all of a sudden I was in my own firm, and there wasn’t enough business for me, and I had to, right? And so the mindset, it’s like, it’s everything this the It’s my third child. It’s defines me. It’s so, you know, I’m in line at, you know, once upon a bagel, and I start, you know, strike up a conversation with someone, and somehow work into it that I help startups. You know, if I meet someone who’s, you know, connected in any way to a to a new business or to the startup ecosystem, it’s just always there. It’s always a conversation working it into my daily life, I would say, becomes, I’m very purposeful about crazy amount of networking, about time blocking for that in my life. So no matter what, setting aside like, even 15 minutes at the end of three days a week are to respond on LinkedIn, to respond on Instagram like, you can’t just throw posts. You have to like, you know, actually interact with people. But every. Single relationship, friend, you know, as I said, someone working at a store, anyone is a potential client, and that just has to always be in your mindset. And I would say the one other thing I would add to that is always trying to help figure out a way we can go into this more later, anyone I’m talking to, because then that person will want and it’s not only, I mean, it feels good to help, and then that person wants to help back, and then you’re able to make a connection to someone else who then goes back to you. So it’s a great circle.
Steve Fretzin [10:29]
Yeah, I mean, we’re thinking about the mindset of business development. John, what’s your take on how you have to keep your mind focused, and why is that important in your building of a practice?
John Sciaccotta [10:39]
As Leslee said, you always have to be on you always have to be sensitive to those that you meet and the relationships that you establish, that everywhere you go and everyone you meet is a potential client, but not only a potential client. And this is where lawyers, I think, make, sometimes a mistake. They are potential referral sources to others that may be a client. They can be the synergies or the center of influence that I like to talk about at our firm. You have to be with centers of influence, and you never know who that might be. When I was a very young lawyer, my mentor told me that everywhere you go and everywhere you walk, you hand someone a business card. Do you tell them what you do? I’m sorry, John, John,
Steve Fretzin [11:30]
what are business cards? I haven’t seen one in about six months to a year.
John Sciaccotta [11:36]
Sorry, I still do it. I’m old fashioned. I think sometimes when you give somebody something, and they could write on the back of it where they met you, but it was to establish relationships and make friends. Yeah, that’s what this is about, yeah. And you always have to have that mindset. You always have to be able to look at the playing field, I like to say and identify those people that you can help, but they can help you. Yeah, and I think that’s just so important.
Steve Fretzin [12:09]
It used to drive me crazy. My lawyer father, the late great Larry fretzen. And you know, I’d go shopping with him, and we’re in the grocery and all of a sudden he’s in a, like, a 15 minute conversation with a stranger in line. And I don’t know that I can tell you right now, I know it wasn’t about business. He was just super interested in people, and I think he but he did that everywhere he went, whether it was someone that opposed him in court or whatever the case might be, he was all about people and relationships and making friends. And again, I don’t think it was business development, but it was something that he just did. Tina, what’s your take on mindset and why it’s so important for lawyers to build that in to the practice of law, versus having them maybe be separate or maybe not even have a business development mindset.
Tina Martini [12:51]
It’s heard some really
Speaker 1 [12:53]
amazing out of the gate advice
Tina Martini [12:57]
and just a process that my co panelists go through and their and their mindset, to me, the business development is inextricably intertwined with my practice and frankly, with my life. I mean, at the end of the day, this is a relationship business, as we’ve been talking about, and you have to sort of, I would say, abide by what we would ordinarily see as the rules of relationships, which then can translate into a business relationship as well. I think that having a structure to your business development efforts is really important. I actually have a recurring BD calendar invite for myself every day. It’s always at the back end of the day, and while I don’t always necessarily do it during that part, it’s a constant reminder to me that I need to just be thinking about both the short term as well as the longer term opportunities and action them and actually execute on them. Because hunting it down the road, you can sometimes miss some extraordinary opportunities. I mean, I’ve been very fortunate. Just this week alone, I’ve had three proposals that cross my desk within the last five days, where if I didn’t have a nimble enough mindset, I would have just punted them. And it seemed the opportunity even when it looks when it doesn’t necessarily look like opportunity is what’s so important here.
Steve Fretzin [14:26]
And just as a follow up, the argument is going to be, you know, Hey, I didn’t get into becoming a lawyer to do business development, so screw that, right? And I’ve got a friend. I won’t bring him up, but, you know, we in an argument just about every time we meet, because he loves to argue. That’s why, one of the reasons he’s a great lawyer. But ultimately, you know, he just will not do business development, and he pops around from job to job to job because he has no book of his own to call his own. And, you know, by the way, I think he’s done fine, right? But, you know, he’s 55, years old, like me, and I just feel like he could have done really so much better in his. Private Practice life, if he had invested, you know, just flipped a switch in his head about the idea that this It’s okay, like we don’t have to just do one or do the other, like we can intertwine them. To your point, anybody want to just chime in on that?
Tina Martini [15:13]
I think that people who don’t want to do business development just need to be very mindful that the as the legal profession continues to evolve and private practice continues to evolve, I think the opportunities to make it work where you don’t have a book of business, the more senior you get. I think those opportunities are diminishing. And I’m not saying that they don’t exist. There are certain big law firms that Leslee, I’m sure, can attest to, where if you have a really interesting and highly marketable niche, you don’t necessarily need a book of business. If you find a firm where they’ve just got an abundance of work and no one to service it. But I think those opportunities are just not what they were, even as recently as three years ago, and so I think people just need to make career decisions that align with what they are and are not willing to do as part of their job description. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [16:20]
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John Sciaccotta [18:28]
Well, first of all, for my entire career, I’ve been focusing on business development since day one. My mentor in the practice told me that after about your second or third year out, you’re going to double your practice every year up to your eighth year. And he was right. And so every day in my life, okay, I write down who are going to be my significant touches for the day? Who am I going to call, email, meet with, attend an event. What am I going to do? And I do that first thing every morning. Okay, this is who I’m going to have significant touches or relations with today. And it’s every day. It’s not just sometimes, it’s every single day. That’s what I do. In Part, I know that’s what it takes. That’s the focus and tenacity you must, must have to be really good at this. But I also like it okay, and everyone has, you know, strengths and weaknesses. Some people are good speakers, some people are good writers. I always tell the story that there was a younger lawyer that didn’t have a nickels worth of business okay, when they were in that when they were out about 10 years, and I told some of my partners, this person can be a rainmaker, and they’re like, No way. Now today, he has a $5 million book. It’s because he had to find. Find out how to implement his strengths in order to be a business developer, it’s not just one way for everyone, and I think what everyone on the program today should take is what’s worked for me and for Christina and for Leslee. Some of that may work for you, but there might be other twists that you have to make in order for it to be effective for you, because we are all different. And so my mindset every day, this is a daily routine. And I think when you make it a daily routine, and you’re focused on it, and yes, it takes a lot of time, and you know, I hear younger lawyers say, Well, I don’t, you know, I don’t have the time. Well, if you don’t make the time to build your own book of business, you are always going to be beholden to someone else. And I couldn’t live with that. My personality could not live
Steve Fretzin [20:57]
with that. I can sort of feel my clients who are on this call in the background, smiling as you’re saying this, because that’s why they engage me. That’s why they’re here. That’s why they’re they’ve drunk the Kool Aid in understanding that control of a career and the ability to, you know, have that financial and freedom and independence is become such an important part of being a lawyer today. Leslee, my concern in this, for the people listening is you’re like, the busiest lawyer I know. Like, I know lots of lawyers. You’re the busiest lawyer, I know. And yet you’re still making time for this. You’re still putting this on a pedestal and saying, Hey, business development is a critical part of the business. How do you do that? And I mean, how much time are you investing and how do you make it work?
Leslee Cohen [21:39]
So I’ll add, it is a huge amount of time, but I’m going to tell you the good news, and then I’ll answer you more directly. But the good news is that it’s like, it’s cumulative. So it’s like, you know, interest on, you know, you have $100 in the bank, and you’re making 8% interest, and then that eight once you have $108 you’re making interest on $108 right? So it works the same way. It’s a lot of upfront effort, but once it’s going, once you’ve got clients and they’re happy, they’re going to tell other people about you. So that makes it, it’s just exponential now, you know, and it just, you don’t, you don’t have to keep doing it, even necessarily to the same extent. I’m with John and Tina. I bet you’re the same way. I love it. And it’s funny, because I hated business development when I was in big law. I mean, this is true story. They I was one of the only women, you know, securities lawyers on Wall Street, right? So I had, I, you know, they trot me out like you got to bring a woman on the team to the roadshow or whatever. So they bring me and, I mean, I read splotches all over my chest, nervous wreck standing in the mirror with my note card, like rehearsing for hours. I mean, I really was. And now, to John’s point, too, I’m doing it in a way that is totally organic to me and who I am and authentic to me, and I love every minute. So yeah, I do it all the time, but because I love it now that not because I have to. And it’s sort of what Tina said, too. It’s integrated. It’s part of everything. So if I’m talking to a client that I have, I’m still thinking, even though they’re my client, oh my god, wait a minute. I just met someone that would be such a great introduction for them, would be such a great customer for them, or center of influence for them, or whatever it is. I got to connect these two people, and that’s business development. I don’t even need to be doing that, but I just I love helping the people I’m talking to
Steve Fretzin [23:34]
well, and I think you’ll probably bring that up in a few minutes too. Is the idea of being a giver and how that can benefit the business development efforts, because you’re putting so much good karma and good effort out there for others, the likelihood that it’s going to come back is also exponential. And so I think you know that makes the time that you invest in it can potentially be reduced. Because again, you’re building this network wide, you’re building this network deep, and people really are going to think of you on a regular basis. Tina, wrap us up on this one,
Tina Martini [24:05]
so much gold that John and Leslee just shared, I’d say, you know, and Leslee mentioned a couple of points that I want to just punctuate here is looking at business development like a portfolio of assets in a whole host of ways. Some of it is going to come to through, to come to fruition through your efforts right away. Some of it is going to be a longer term strategy, connecting the dots for folks, and not just making it about, where’s my next project coming from? You, oh, client target. It’s about being very holistic in your approach, looking at them as people, looking at them as clients, looking them at as business people who are trying to get something done within the context of a business and so. And also, you know, there are certain, you know, situations where. Contacted a client needs to move on, and they need leads on another job, like doing things like that, helping people plan birthday parties for their, you know, family members. I’ve done that. I mean, it’s like, really, just again, showing that you value the relationship, separate and apart from trying to get anything. And also, Steve, you know, I know John mentioned sort of a timeline potentially for developing a book of business. One thing you have to really think about, though, is, what is the return on your time and other type of resource investment, because you are not going to get anywhere, and you’ll stall out if you find that a particular strategy that you’re using is falling flat with people don’t keep doing the same thing. And I know that we’re going to talk a little bit more about this later, but this is something I actually see a bunch of people do. They do the same thing all the time. It’s like one or two strategies, and it just it you run out of a runway with that kind of stuff?
Steve Fretzin [26:02]
Yeah, I talked to a client of mine yesterday who’s in the IP space as well, and he was speaking to IP lawyers, and had done it for like, five years, and he’s like, I don’t get anything out of this. I’m like, How much time do you put into it, preparing, showing up, doing it, and it was all this time and money and energy, and he’s not getting anything from well, yeah, these are your competitors. Where else you know, should we be dropping that? And I think delegation the power of saying no automating, which is kind of coming into its own right now, with AI and all the legal tech tools and things there really should be making lawyers very efficient and opening up banks and gaps of time for you guys to then be able to either build more hours do business development, or have, you know, go figure maybe more free time, right, which is not a horrible thing either. So really, really great answers there. Let’s move on to what you guys would consider the one or two effective business development strategies that it that have really worked for you. And again, not a one size fits all. Everyone’s got their own jam, but ultimately, what’s worked for you is you know is going to be different for everybody. So Tina, start us off on this one. What’s been your go to move from a standpoint of seeing regular results?
Tina Martini [27:15]
Few things I’ve got in my trip bag on this one of which is being in places where other people like me are not so, for example, you know, participating in trade associations or groups of people where I’m not seeing other people like me there and where it’s ripe for either direct opportunities, for example, their in house folks, either on the business side or on the legal side, that are there, or to John’s point, are potentially ripe for referrals. So that’s a little bit of a different strategy, and it could take a little bit longer on that, but I’ve found that to be really effective, and that sort of is a segue to my second point, which is really not leaving on the table opportunities from the referral front. Because when I look at some of the coolest and greatest BD opportunities I’ve had during the course of my career, a lot of them have been referrals from people who I earn my trusted network, who are already using me, or for whatever reason, can’t use me, but then they say, I know Tina, love Tina, can vouch for Tina, use her. And that’s just great. And that just shows the power of, sort of like the way that you can cast a wide net. It’s sort of like social media, it’s like you put something out there, and then people who are connected to your connection see it. And so those are just two of my strategies.
John Sciaccotta [28:49]
Yeah, but it sounds like one is, you know, the branding and putting yourself out there in places where buyers may be, or people who are connectors may be, and then how you’re staying top of mind with them after the fact, so that you’re the one they’re going to think of when that matter finally hits. Yes. Okay, got it, John, how about yourself? You know, I think it’s about putting yourself, as Tina said, putting yourself in a position to meet people and establish relationships. And here is my three or four I would call gold mine Bar Association. I can’t tell you how much referral work I’ve received from the Bar Association. I started about eight or nine years ago, the business divorce and complex ownership disputes committee at the Chicago bar association with my partner, Jerry holisky, that has been an absolute gold mine in terms of meeting people that are in that space or have relationships within that space. I can’t tell you how many people on the committee have talked about me and our firm to others in their law firms and have referred us work. So that’s number one, get involved with bar associations. I know it sounds like, Oh, I’m just going to meet a bunch of lawyers, but that is the biggest fallacy. Those are people that have work that they can refer to you, okay? And not all the lawyers at the Bar Association do what I do, or Tina does, or Leslee does, okay. That’s the number one, John,
Steve Fretzin [30:22]
before you continue, can I just mention something? So I think it might be taking what Tina said and what you said, and putting them together. Because if the Bar Association, there’s an IP group, maybe don’t, if you’re an IP, don’t do the IP group. Do the other groups where people have the same clients that you’re looking for, but they’re not an IP, but you’re still leveraging the bar
John Sciaccotta [30:41]
absolutely, yeah, we’re, I’m co chair of the alternative disputes resolution community committee, and we’re going to have an IP ADR seminar, which Tina would be great to speak at. So I may be calling on you, basically, charitable boards in Oregon, community organizations can’t tell you how important that is. You’re meeting people. They’re legal decision makers, they’re senior people, they’re successful. Be active. There another activity that’s worked for me is networking within the schools and alumni associations, in my fraternity, in my grade school, yes, grade school, high school, college, law school, those are all networks in the community groups, okay, my kids, when they went to school, I met all kinds of people during their education. My four children, okay, where I established relationships and I got business out of it. Don’t underestimate this social media activity. I have gotten referrals, and good referrals off of Facebook, okay, off off of Instagram, off of LinkedIn, okay, you are what we didn’t have years ago. Okay, was the ability to touch significant touches through social media. And today we have that, and I think it’s a huge advantage, and I don’t think that lawyers always take advantage of it, and I think it’s something you really should Wow.
Steve Fretzin [32:15]
Like you said, gold mine, you weren’t joking around. That’s a lot of really, really great content there. And of course, we need to get Leslee’s take on this, because I know she’s got something hidden in her back pocket. So take it away,
Leslee Cohen [32:26]
Leslee, I do well, I’ll save that one for my second. The first was, if there’s anyone you know listening who is just starting out right, not starting as a lawyer, but starting out as a rainmaker, business developer, all of that. So I had no idea what to do, how to start, and the first thing I did was look for networking groups that were had people that I was interested in meeting, right? So I would go to these groups, and I’m not a really a big group kind of person. It just makes me uncomfortable. So I’ve gotten better, but I don’t love it. So I would go to the group, and I would very purposely target like, specific people within who I saw at the table. I’m much more comfortable one on one. So I would think like, you know, so and so is, you know, I’m a startup lawyer. So and so is, you know, a banker in small business banking, you know. And then I would reach out to that person afterwards and ask to have a one on one and just, you know, go into it with, what can I do for you? How can I help you? And that was the whole beginning, and I did that for the first two full years. And I am not kidding, two networking meetings a day, every single day, seven days a week for two years, and got very little business in the beginning. And, you know, back to, like you said, how much you asked before? How much time does it take? So it was, you know, it was like two years, but maintaining those, you know, keeping up in touch with the people who I had really good meetings with, following through on every single thing I promised, every introduction, I promised to make anything you know, even I read a great book. Oh, I’d love to know the title. I left and made sure I sent that book to the person you know. So like that was the beginning. And now I’d say so this is more my has been my gold mine that everyone on here, I think could probably benefit from. So I came up with this concept together with a coach. I put together a presentation, because we work with startups. It’s the legal aspects of early stage fundraising, and it’s the, you know, you’re a startup, you’re going to, you know, find a lawyer and you have no idea. Like, I liken it to to like when we put new wood floors in our house, right when we bought a new house. So I was like, What is that supposed to cost? 10,000 1050 I have no idea, right? So the presentation is to educate you from a lay person’s perspective on the laws behind your fundraising, so that you. You can go into those conversations educated, right? So I put together a speaker sheet, which is just a one pager that’s got, you know, some compelling pictures and whatever, and then it just says what the presentation is, you know. And every single time I meet somebody, I say, they say, Who do you want to meet? Like, that’s the big thing in networking, right? Who can I introduce you to? And I say, anybody in the startup ecosystem of any city, accelerator, incubator, you know, you name it. And then I reach out to that person, and I send them my speaker sheet, and I say, for free, I am so happy to make this presentation to all your members. And every time they’re like, Oh, my founders would love this. And I get in front of I do it now probably three times a week. I know it by heart. After all these years, I get in front of every time I do it. I’ve between seven and 70 people on. I never leave that room with that business every single solitary time. And I think if you can come up with a presentation that’s very simple for you, that will educate your potential clients and find the right outlet to give that presentation. Golden.
Steve Fretzin [36:09]
Yeah. So, yeah, the idea that you’re filling a room with people that are of the like mind and have the same issues and needs giving them enough not to solve the problem, but to let them know they’ve got them and they’re going to need someone to help them solve them, right? That’s beautiful. All right, everybody, as we wrap up part one of be that lawyer live insider tips from the legal industry’s top rainmakers. Of course, I want to thank our wonderful panelists, our sponsors, including legal verse media, pimcon and law her podcast, and, of course, our live audience for joining us, please be sure to catch part two in a few days or next week, as we get into more gold from our amazing panel of rainmakers, take care. Everybody. Be safe, be well, and we will talk again very soon.
Narrator [36:56]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.