In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ben Dach discuss:
- Prioritizing layered mentorship
- Strengthening firm culture for development
- Maintaining clear communication in mentoring
- Using delegation and varied experience for growth
Key Takeaways:
- Professionals should pursue multiple mentors with complementary strengths to build balanced legal and leadership skills. Proactive outreach broadens perspective and accelerates growth across stages of a career. Treating mentorship as a continuous discipline ensures steady, long-term development.
- Growth is amplified in environments that value collaboration, approachability, and shared learning. Supportive cultures help young attorneys apply feedback with confidence and consistency. When mentorship is part of a firm’s values, long-term development becomes more sustainable.
- Clear expectations and honest conversations create stability and direction in mentor relationships. Early resolution of misalignment strengthens trust and accountability for both sides. Consistent feedback loops reinforce progress and keep development moving forward.
- Delegation offers meaningful opportunities to build judgment and independence through real responsibility. Structured tools provide quality and clarity as workloads expand over time. Diverse experiences and firm environments round out long-term professional capability.
“Just do the things and fail. Fail a lot, because you won’t know until you do the things, and then you fail, and then you learn.” — Ben Dach
Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.
Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
Thank you to our Sponsor!
Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/
HireParalegals: https://hireparalegals.com/
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let’s make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Ben Dach: Benjamin Dach, Ph.D., Esq., is an accomplished patent attorney with extensive experience in intellectual property litigation, prosecution, and counseling. With experience in patent, copyright, and trademark litigation, procurement, and licensing, Ben focuses on development, protection, and monetization of patent, copyright, and trademark portfolios, strategic licensing, commercial agreements, diligence, and enforcement strategies. He has represented clients in numerous actions in U.S. courts, administrative proceedings, and before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board and Trademark Trial and Appeal Board.
Connect with Ben Dach:
Website: https://pierferd.com/benjamin-i-dach
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamindach/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey everybody. Steve Fretzin here and I’m excited to share my new show, future rainmakers. This is a great show where I dive into quick, practical lessons to help you grow your law practice, attract better clients and take control of your time and your life. Check it out today. But for now, enjoy the show.
Narrator [00:21]
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:44]
Everybody, Steve Fretzin here and welcome to be that lawyer. We are the show for you to teach you everything you never learned in law school about the business side of the game of law. So we’re talking marketing, business development, we’re talking time mastery, we’re talking all these different things. And every single week, twice a week, my goal and my job is to bring you amazing guests that are going to teach you something and help you along your path, to live your best lawyer’s life, to be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker today is no different. I got Ben waiting in the wings. How you doing Ben?
Ben Dach [01:11]
Great. Steve, thank you. How are you?
Steve Fretzin [01:15]
I’m great man. Good to see you. And we had such a robust conversation, and I was commenting that you’re one of the few people that didn’t just fill out your form to come on the show, but you also, like, send me, like, a really involved email on the topic that we’re going to cover today. I was just so impressed with the thoroughness of your is that a lawyer skill just being super thorough.
Ben Dach [01:35]
It comes with the territory, right?
Steve Fretzin [01:39]
Especially those IP attorneys right there? Always thorough, always thorough. All right. Well, let’s start off with our quote of the show, which I love to do. It is Alan Kay, who’s a pioneering computer scientist, said the best way to predict the future is to invent it. So again, welcome to the show and tell us why you have that as your quote of the show.
Ben Dach [01:56]
Well, I am involved heavily in the field of inventions. I’m a patent attorney, so every day I think about inventions. I love it when someone has a new invention, and it’s just the best to hear it from them and to learn about how necessity really is the mother of invention. I mean, we’re creating always new ideas and concepts. And as a patent attorney, I just love hearing the word INVENTION and describing it constantly in it’s really just the best thing for me, how to think about this and help my clients achieve their goals.
Steve Fretzin [02:35]
Well, it sounds like you’re solving problems, like they’re solving problems, right? They’re solving a problem with their invention. You’re helping them solve the problem. How to Get how to make bank on it, and how to help improve people’s lives with something revolutionary. I have great ideas. By the way, I come up with new inventions just about every month, and I do nothing with them, because it’s just the you know, ideas are one thing, and actually taking it all the way through to whatever might end up on the other side seems like a lot of work, so I try to stay in my lane. Is what I’m saying. Ben, hey for everybody listening. Ben Dach, here is a partner at Pearson Ferdinand. Give us your background and how you came to be. And you know, we’re going to be taking a deep dive today into, you know, talent and mentorship and how we pay it forward and pass it on to the younger generation. But give us your story leading into that conversation today.
Ben Dach [03:23]
Sure. Thanks. Steve. So I got my start at a PhD chemistry program at Columbia University, and I was studying Advanced Chemistry, quantum physics, difficult subjects, but I love science so much, so I just kept on going deeper, deeper, learning more. I also was an intern, and had to make a few bucks at the time during the PhD, and I was an intern at the Technology Transfer Office at Columbia. So that opened my eyes to the turning the science into a commercial product, and how that works. So you know, from Step A to B to C, and I took a course called from idea to IPO. So really from inception, from the invention to the IPO. And there was an entire course taught by a venture capitalist, a genius, down in downtown Manhattan. And I got my start there, and from there, I just kept on learning more and more about both science, the IP side of things, the law, how it works, how what a patent is, what a trademark is, what a copyright is, all of that I had no idea, but I got started at as a scientific advisor at a boutique firm called Frommer Lawrence and Haug, and it was a patent firm that was heavily involved in pharmaceutical litigation, and I just dove straight in. I worked on a massive, multi billion dollar litigation my first year, flying down to Palm Beach and working with teams on demonstratives and experts and all sorts of things. And so that’s where I got my start. There, and from there, I went on to get my JD from Fordham University, while working during the day, I went to the night program. And I just continue to add on and grow and expand my my horizons that is purely out of interest.
Steve Fretzin [05:15]
Yeah, and I’m sure that along the way, in particular, at your first law firm, there were people that sort of stepped in, not only to manage you because you were new, but also, my hope is to mentor you. And I’d love to hear you know, since that’s our kind of, our main topic for today is talking about mentorship and how we need to take care of others. How were you taken care of?
Ben Dach [05:36]
Yeah, so thank you for that, Steve. It’s a great question, and I hold my mentors near and dear to my heart. I had a mentor at my first firm, FLH, named Jason, and he was from day one, behind me, behind my back. You know, he had my back. He I remember the interview we had, like a lunch there, and there was food, and he kind of came in late, and I said, hey, hey, you know, I didn’t finish my sandwich. Do you want to have it? And he was like, Sure, you know. And so we already had, like, this great rapport going on.
Steve Fretzin [06:08]
You literally broke bread together.
Ben Dach [06:09]
Yes, and that was just the beginning right. Later on, I learned the genius of his litigation skills and how to do a cross examination on such a high level and many, many other things, really. But I want to say that it takes two right for the mentorship, the mentor and the mentee. So you have to have an open mind, and that’s why I wanted to talk to you about structured and unstructured. This was an unstructured mentorship, meaning there was no official mentor mentee a signage, however, I’ve been at firms that have have had official mentor mentee titles and giving people that kind of structure, so I could talk to that as well. But I think it’s important to kind of have both, and to have many mentors as well, not just one, but I call out him as a particular example, because he was extremely helpful to my professional development on the law side, teaching me critical tricks of the trade, how to conduct an expert deposition. What are the important things to think about, things that may that no one else would know. Very insider type of you know. And you need that within the law because you could read the law books, read the cases, the subtleties of how to pick an expert, how to pick the right you know, the jury that you know, jury selection aspects and even venue things like with how to pick the right venue, how to understand your opponent and what they’re trying to get at with certain questions and lines of reasoning. And it just opened my eyes to ideas that I’ve never thought about before. And so every mentor will bring their own expertise and their own kind of understanding of things. So I think it’s important to have many mentors.
Steve Fretzin [08:02]
And is it, is it something in your experience at the maybe the firm you’re with now that mentors are assigned, or mentors found, are they? Is the head of the practice area that decides, or does it like, who? You know, I’m a new attorney. I’m a first year I’m working at your firm. I’m under, you know, I’m in your practice group? Who’s Who am I turning to.
Ben Dach [08:22]
At Pearson Ferdinand, my firm, I’m a partner, there 270 attorneys across the US and the United Kingdom. So pretty much everyone is a mentor. That’s the culture of my firm, and it’s, it is very culture driven in terms of how the mentorships bloom and blossom and grow. So some firms really, really, the culture is just there and it works. So at Pearson Ferdinand, I work seamlessly with my partners. I’m a mentor to junior partners. There is a cross collaboration that is just built into the firm culture. Everyone. We have four principles. One of them is humility, trust, integrity and responsiveness. Those are the four kind of pillars that we stand on. So mentorship goes top down, goes bottom up. It’s both ways. And there’s another concept at the firm called servant leadership. So the leaders, they build, you know, Joel Ferdinand and Michael Pearson. They really live and breathe this. And recently, there’s a new term that’s been thrown out, which is called unreasonable hospitality. And I really think that’s from a book it might be, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [09:36]
I think it’s from a hotel of a guy who had a hotel chain or something.
Ben Dach [09:39]
So we absorb that concept as a firm culture concept, with respect to our our clients, our would and as a firm, we use the term the peer for family, and that’s real. I mean, I’ve been at places where it’s like, you’re you know, we love you like family, right? But here, here, it really does feel that way. There is a. A culture and a vibe that is very graceful, it’s very giving, and it’s very competent, with zealous advocacy under reasonable methods and unreasonable hospitality towards our clients, yeah, and so the mentorship. It’s all the way through these principles of common core principles that we stand by daily in our interactions inside and outside of the firm. And right now, I have probably a dozen mentors, but if I had to pick two, it would be the leaders of the firm, Michael Pearson and Joel Ferdinand, and then the leaders of my department, IP Naira, Simmons and Chris Kincaid. They’re great leaders all around and we their mentor meet daily.
Steve Fretzin [10:46]
Yeah, well, it sounds like a big factor of of effective mentorship for many people would be the culture of the firm, if it’s a toxic culture, if it’s I’ve talked to people who they don’t know who to talk to about anything like there’s no support, there’s no one they can talk to, and it’s like whether they’re more experienced or inexperienced, it can be incredibly frustrating. So I mean, have you seen different cultures along over the years that have been less effective at mentorship because of the culture? Without naming names, of course.
Ben Dach [11:19]
Thanks, Steve. Appreciate it. You know, I’ve seen varying degrees of cultures, and yes, I will say that in a more stuffy environment where people don’t, don’t have the breathing room to kind of be themselves, there’s a lack of approachability that, even though a partner might say, hey, my door is always opened, open door policy. And then I would go knock on the door and say, Here I am. And, and if they, if they really own up to that policy, they would say, Come on in. Yeah. But if not, then you get the picture.
Steve Fretzin [11:54]
It’s like, yeah, yeah. It’s the two hands up, open door policy. It’s pushing the door closed, yeah.
Ben Dach [11:59]
And, and what I would see is that there would be different degrees of there would be, like, a lot of hierarchy also. So there was, like, there was senior partners, managing partners, and I was an associate. So I’m already, like, several steps removed from the higher levels. So I think there’s a culture that’s kind of built into that as well, and at a firm like Pearson Ferdinand, it’s a lot more, I should say, a lot more, what I like to call Knights of the Round Table. We’re all kind of equal. We’re all partners. There’s no real difference in title at all, and no one really has any different treatment at all. It’s, we’re all we’re all family, and we are treated that way. And it’s, it’s a beautiful concept that is really hard to execute. So it makes us unique. It really changes the firm, the firm dynamic.
Steve Fretzin [12:48]
Yeah, thanks, Ben everybody. As you know, one of the biggest challenges that law firms and lawyers face is hiring many attorneys know they need help, a virtual assistant, paralegal, legal secretary, but just don’t have the time to find and vet the right person. Well, that’s where higher paralegals.com comes in. They do all the heavy lifting, pre vetting top candidates who are in your time zone and ready to work. Firms save hundreds of hours every year and can hire for as little as 2000 per month. And for be that lawyer listeners like you, you’re going to get 500 off your first hire when you visit hire paralegals.com and use the promo code Steve with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings.io. Prides itself on proof, not promises, mentality. The best firms hire rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases, other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver, get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free [email protected] today, Hey everybody, it’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch, it’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretzen.com and grab a time that works for you, and let’s make this your breakout year. I want to take two different directions here. Let’s explore this. So number one is, let’s say there’s an attorney at a firm, and that attorney wants to learn a new practice area. That attorney wants to learn rainmaking, that attorney wants to learn something and has identified a partner, an equity partner, a name partner, whatever, at a firm that they go, God, if that was my mentor, if that was someone that I could emulate, boy, I would be in good shape. How does a young attorney approach someone that they believe might be their mentor or someone that they really aspire to be to get that mentorship? Do you? Do you? Have you been approached like that, or have you approached What are your thoughts on that?
Ben Dach [14:55]
I think that it’s two ways. So I’ve never been approached. Approached in a way to say, hey, I want to mentor you. It’s more of we’re working together, we’re working on something, or maybe I meet someone at a conference, we strike up a conversation, we get along, and we have rapport, and we have commonalities.
Steve Fretzin [15:16]
So man, that sounds like networking, which I get, but I guess what I’m where I’m going is, all right, I’m a young attorney. I understand that there’s someone at your firm that just seems to have it all together, right? They’re building business, they’re winning trials, they’re super smart. And I want to approach as the young attorney, that attorney that that more meant more senior attorney, to say, Hey, I would like to talk about, you know, you mentoring me, or if I could work with you or under you, or what, that’s what I’m trying to get at is like, how, what’s the approach that might not get the rejection? Because I think that might be the concern of a younger attorney, is, you know, dealing with the objection of, like, no, no, I’m too busy for you, or that’s not on my plate. What do you have a approach that you would recommend?
Ben Dach [16:00]
Yes, yes, Steve, thanks for asking. I think, I think there, there, there has to be a multifaceted, multifaceted approach. So for example, if you think sending an email is going to do it, it may, but it may require more than that. It may require a phone call, may require in person. That’s why I was talking about in person.
Steve Fretzin [16:18]
Maybe asking someone to lunch, like saying, Hey, I’d love to just pick your brain. Can we meet for lunch? On me, I have some questions I’d like to ask.
Ben Dach [16:24]
Yes, meet Yes, a lunch meeting would be ideal, really, breakfast, lunch, dinner, anything in person is the best, yeah. But in lieu of that, we have a Zoom meeting, a call, an email, but, but getting but reach out right? The worst they could say is no, and I’ve, I’ve asked people to work, to work with them. I’ve asked people for work. I’ve asked clients for work, and if you don’t ask, you probably won’t get it. So there is an idea for asking, yeah, and and doing so in a non committal way.
Steve Fretzin [17:02]
I mean, I was thinking as you’re talking, like, complimenting them, taking them to launch, picking their brain, asking a ton of questions. Maybe they turn around and ask you, like, what are you looking out of your career? It’s like, well, I, you know, would like to be like you dad, or whatever that you know saying is from the from the old coke commercial or something. But anyway, I think that’s that. Let’s turn it around the other the other side of it, and that is, how does what, what is, what is an attorney do when they have agreed to mentor someone and that mentee isn’t really living up to their end of the bargain. They’re not doing the work, they’re not doing the obligations, they’re not, you know, actively pursuing, you know, the depth of knowledge that they that, that the mentor knows the mentee needs. Because I think that’s an issue right now. Like, I think there’s a lot of attorneys that, you know, like, I’m a Gen X, and I’m not going to start playing the game of of, you know, generation against generation. But, you know, I think we know Gen X has a work ethic that is undeniable. And then there’s other generations that have different work ethics and different ideas about what and they’re not, no one’s wrong or right. It’s, it just is, um, but again, if there’s, you know, 2000 hours to be billed, and there’s you know, trials to be run and people need the work done.
Ben Dach [18:20]
Yeah, well, we don’t have a billable rate requirement here, so none of the 2000 if you’re hitting 1500 you’re probably, you’re probably golden. But to your point, it’s if the mentee is not, is not, you know, reaching his or her potential, The mentor should tell the mentee that, naturally, it’s gonna, it’s gonna kind of bubble up to the surface, right? And they’re gonna find out somehow, some way, that they’re not, they’re not doing something proper or or they’re not, they’re not, you know, their work product is subpar, or something like that. And so it requires just frank discussions, openness in a nice way, as nice as possible, right, with understanding and with grace and with with with just a knowledge that people can either change and grow or or not, and they’ll move on, and we’ll find something else. Yeah, but, but it’s important for them to know when they’re not meeting, making, meeting their marks. So that’s a communication that’s definitely a communication issue that I think is important for both the mentor and the mentee.
Steve Fretzin [19:30]
Yeah, there’s mentorship on the legal side, right, and making sure that the work gets done. One of the things that I work on with with lawyers, with business development and growing their books of business is their ability to delegate. And the problem is, lawyers have this. It’s just easier if I do it myself, right, like I could bring somebody in, but I’ll just knock it out myself. How do you circle that square with just mentoring somebody and getting someone to, you know, work, work with you and make. Could happen, versus just saying, I’ll, you know, mess. I’m not going to mess with that, that lawyer anymore. I’m just going to, I’ll just knock this out. It’ll take me five hours or 10 hours.
Ben Dach [20:08]
It requires working with with these people a little, getting a flavor for how, for how they work, right? If they work well, if it gels, great. If not, then I might have to work I’m on it, on my own, and without, without the additional help. So it’s something that we have to try it. If you don’t try it out, you won’t know. So you gotta, you gotta try. That’s That’s why I try with different mentees, different mentors. Sometimes it clicks and it’s great, and sometimes it doesn’t. And you know what? It’s no one’s fault. It could just be timing. It could be the case that we’re working on wasn’t a wasn’t an ideal case for that, for that person. And so there’s so many factors that go into it. So that being said, it has to be tried. You have to try. You have to do the work we have. We have another mantra here, which is, do, do the things. Just do the things and fail. Fail a lot, because you won’t know until you do the things, and then you fail, and then you learn. So those are, those are the two kind of lessons that I’ve I’ve learned along the way.
Steve Fretzin [21:14]
Yeah, well, we’ll wrap up our segment with your big mistake. I used to call it failing forward, but that was the whole kind of idea. Is that, you know, how do we get better at something? And in many cases, we can be told how to get better at something. And more likely, the case is, we’re going to mess up, we’re going to make a mistake, we’re going to learn from it, and hopefully don’t make the same mistake. You know, two and three times mentorship for the law side of it, and then there’s mentorship for the other soft skills, leadership, operations, tech, marketing, business development. Do lawyers need to seek out different mentors for different things that they want to learn? Or maybe they can find it in one person in a package, like you mentioned your managing partners, you mentioned your practice leader heads, like they probably all have different skills of where you could draw value?
Ben Dach [22:02]
Yes, Steve, they do. And I would say, if you could find it in one place, you’re very lucky, right? But, but most of the time it will be found in many different places, because everyone has their own skills and expertise. So it does require the talking to the head of of the technology department at my firm would know a lot about the tech, the tech stack that we have. And then if you want to learn more about immigration law, there’s the immigration attorney. And everyone has their own niche and expertise, and not only that, but their own personality they bring to the table. So that that uniqueness that everyone has, like we have 270 partners, so we have not over 90 air practice areas. So there’s so much, there’s so much going on and the and we have to go to different sources to learn to learn, to learn different things. So I think that it’s important to keep on going back to those sources that that fuel us. So if you get, if you get energized by that person, go back, keep going to that to that point, and if not, then keep trying to find a new a new mentor or mentee. And it goes both ways, right? So some, sometimes the mentee becomes the mentor, and that that works a lot of times that way, even though the law doesn’t view it that way sometimes, but it does happen and and so I would keep an open mind.
Steve Fretzin [23:30]
Something that I’ve I because I have a background in executive coaching and leadership and management coaching. It’s not what I my jam and what I do these days, but one thing that I know has been super helpful for lawyers that have mentees is to create a worksheet for them, for different assignments, for different things that they’re working on, that lays out the five or 10 points of what you know need to be done within that matter, within that project, so that as they go through it. Let’s say, for example, a simple one is, you know, did you check the grammar and make sure all the punctuation is, you know, right? And everything before turning it back to me? So that before they there’s, let’s say five, you know, five other things, plus that they have to get the project done. They have to fill out that form, that checklist, sign it, turn it in. Now that that’s not a forever thing. Ben, that’s a micro manage, you know. Let me help you from the start, you know. So you’re not turning things in halfway, or turning where, you know, there becomes an issue, where I’ll just do it myself comes up. But that’s been really successful for how mentors and managers can help get people on the right path from the beginning and get things turned in right. And then again, that may not be a forever thing. That might be the first two or three times they do a project, and then you get it right, and then you don’t need to do that anymore with that particular you like that idea. I mean, that’s something that I didn’t come up with that. I mean, that’s something that I was taught years ago.
Ben Dach [24:51]
I do I think that that that idea makes a lot of sense. It’s a temporary, not a forever thing, but you give it some energy initially. Ly, you take out something that you can get from it, and sort of ties into my idea of, you know, trying out different things. So it’s like a rotational practice group, almost, right? That helps with the deepening of skills. I mean, I’ve worked at a number of firms, and each firm I’ve had a different mentor and a different boss, different team and totally different work dynamic and understanding of how work is done. So each time, each rotation, really helps a lot.
Steve Fretzin [25:29]
Well, fantastic, Ben. Let’s wrap up our segment with with Ben’s big mistake. What happened?
Ben Dach [25:36]
So thanks, Steve. The big mistake for me is spending too much time in big law.
Steve Fretzin [25:42]
Okay? My apologies to my big law friends.
Ben Dach [25:45]
It’s a common mistake, but the reason being that you had, I had to take a big leap and invest in myself and in big law, you are doing that, and it’s possible to do exceedingly well. Don’t get me wrong, it’s possible to have the best time, but for me, I set my own rates. I have my own clients. Now I work seamlessly with my firm and with my clients, and it’s never been easier. And at big law, I felt like it just I was hitting a lot of friction in that regard. So now I’m it’s this kind of like frictionless, easier way of life. So that’s my big mistake. It wasn’t really a mistake, because I, again, I grew so much from each experience each firm along the way taught me, taught me so many lessons.
Steve Fretzin [26:30]
Yeah, well, fantastic. You know, I think there’s a lot of people that you know, learn in big law, get their bruises and everything, and then they they find the mid market or small firm are going on their own, is the path. And, you know, they end up highly successful because of that experience. So, you know, and I’ve had some jobs that were brutal, some sales jobs that were brutal and very difficult, you know, a lot of cold calling, a lot of, you know, beaten beating the pavement and stuff like that. But I needed to kind of go through that. Know what I wanted to do and what I didn’t want to do, what I didn’t want to do, is beat the pavement. So anyway, great stuff. So let’s wrap up. Let’s thank our wonderful sponsors. Of course, hire paralegals.com check them out. Also, lat hires. They they’re helping lawyers and law firms delegate, you know, weigh all the stuff they shouldn’t be doing. Of course, the law her podcast with Sonia and rankings IO, the top SEO pay per click, you know, a digital company for personal injury attorneys. So check that out, everybody. And Ben, if people want to get in touch with you, they want to work with you. They think you’re as nice a guy as you are, and they think you’re highly experienced and want to talk with you. What are the best ways to reach you?
Ben Dach [27:36]
Reach me by email. Ben, dot dash, D, A, C, [email protected], and you can find me on my website, www.pierford.com.
Steve Fretzin [27:47]
All right, fantastic. Well, thanks for coming on the show and talking a little bit about it. You know, things that we don’t always hit on this show. You know, we’re all business development and marketing, and the reality is that we need to be better mentors. We need to find better mentors. We need to make sure that we’re leveraging the power of the team and the culture that we’re in to get ahead. And I think it takes a village, as they say, right?
Ben Dach [28:10]
It sure does. Steve, it takes more than a village.
Steve Fretzin [28:13]
It takes a town. It takes a city. Well, thanks, Ben. I appreciate you being on the show and sharing your wisdom, and I want to thank everybody that listens to this show regularly for being amazing. And you know, my hope again is that you guys get takeaways from every single show. Don’t be shy about telling other lawyers about it. Don’t be shy about giving us a kind review. Subscribe all that kind of fun stuff and listen. We’re here to help you. Be that lawyer, confident, organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care. Everybody. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.
Narrator [28:45]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.