In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Bryan Figueroa discuss:
- Strategies for scaling law firms effectively
- The importance of delegation and effective team-building
- Leveraging technology and automation in legal practice management
- The evolving role of outsourcing and virtual staffing in modern law firms
Key Takeaways:
- Solopreneurs should prioritize identifying their strengths and weaknesses to effectively delegate non-revenue generating tasks at a lower cost than their billable rate.
- Mid-sized law firms often struggle with innovation and can benefit from modernizing their technology stack and overcoming attachment to outdated practices.
- A central source of truth, such as a practice management suite, ensures all stakeholders have real-time access to essential data, streamlining firm operations.
- Over-hiring without sufficient revenue reserves can lead to financial strain during slow seasons, emphasizing the importance of planning and inventorying resources before scaling.
“With the right standards of operations, the right training in place, and the right vision, every single one of the team members that is hired—if due diligence is done correctly—will perform accordingly, buy into the mission, and help push it forward.” — Bryan Figueroa
Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at [email protected] with your toughest question, and I’ll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!
Thank you to our Sponsors!
Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/
Rainmakers Roundtable: https://fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/
Episode References:
Free Lawyer Podcast by Gary Miles: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-free-lawyer/id1614507857
About Bryan Figueroa: Bryan Figueroa is a seasoned Sales and Operations leader and President of ShiftSixOS, a company providing full-time support staff for law firms and legal tech companies at a fraction of traditional hiring costs. Previously, he worked at a leading legal tech company, gaining valuable insights into industry challenges and building lasting client relationships. Bryan’s leadership emphasizes personalized support and a consultative approach to help clients scale their businesses and achieve success in a rapidly evolving market.
Connect with Bryan Figueroa:
Website: https://shiftsixos.com/
Email: [email protected]
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryan-figueroa1024/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/shiftsixos/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey there, we’re heading into a new year and I’d like to change up how I open the show. Each episode I’ll be sharing a quick question and answer on your greatest challenges in growing a successful law practice. Additionally, I’d like to hear what you’re struggling with and answer your questions directly on the show.
[00:00:15] Steve Fretzin: Please email me at steve at Fretzin dot com with something you’ve been struggling with and I’ll answer it directly on the show only using your first name. Let’s try this out and see how it goes. Thanks and enjoy the show. Hey everybody, before we get to the show, I want to answer a question from Mike from Kansas City, Missouri and he asks, I’m nervous about attending a big networking event.
[00:00:36] Steve Fretzin: How do I approach with confidence? Thank you Mike for the question. I think A hundred percent the way to approach it is to be prepared that means you need to be prepared and looking at who’s going to be there maybe communicating with the host to have a conversation see if the people that you want to meet are going to be there having a great infomercial prepared.
[00:00:55] Steve Fretzin: Most importantly, be prepared with a few good questions that you can ask the attendees. So when you walk in, you know how to approach people and you can ask them a question. You know, what brings you here? Or this is my first time, you know, what, you know, are you a member of this? Whatever it might be to get people talking and getting to learn about their businesses.
[00:01:12] Steve Fretzin: As long as you can ask questions and listen, you’re going to do great at networking. You’re also going to know who do you want to follow up with and who not. It’s less about you saying things and talking. It’s really more about listening, understanding, finding, and qualifying who you want to follow up with.
[00:01:26] Steve Fretzin: Hope this was helpful. Thanks Mike for Kansas City. If you have other questions, people please email me at steve at Fretzin. com. I love answering these questions on the show and continuing to help you be that lawyer. Confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Take care.
[00:01:43] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach, Steve Pretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Pretzin.
[00:02:05] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, welcome to the Be That Lawyer with Pretzin podcast. As usual. So happy that you’re here every week, twice a week to hear what we have to say to help you, the lawyer, be your best self, live your best lawyer life, and things are going great here at Fretzin Inc. In case you’re wondering, I dunno if you were, but we only two things.
[00:02:21] Steve Fretzin: If you’re wondering what does Fretzin do anyway. Number one is we have a very amazing full service coaching and training program. So there’s actually a class that lawyers come from all over the world to come to in addition to one on one coaching with me. I’m on full retainer and that’s like a package that people do.
[00:02:39] Steve Fretzin: So if you want to take things to the next level, I’ve got people starting out in business development. And I’ve got people that are doing millions, but I’m able to find the gaps and find where there’s even more money. And that’s sort of my jam. And then of course you guys know me as the rainmaker round table guy.
[00:02:51] Steve Fretzin: So if you have, if you’re already killing it at business development, you want to be a part of a rainmaker round table, peer advisory mastermind group with other ambitious lawyers. Let me know that as well. You can email me at Steve at Fretzin. com and enough about that, Brian, I am not one to talk much about myself.
[00:03:07] Steve Fretzin: So we’re going to jump in and talk a little bit about you. Welcome to the show, man.
[00:03:11] Bryan Figueroa: No, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Steve, man. Thank you for everyone of you went in and listening.
[00:03:15] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Yeah. And we have a mutual connection in in Jared Korea who connected us and I’m a huge Jared Korea fan. I just, everything he does, I feel like I want to be involved in, or that I want to keep track of what he’s doing because he’s just so prolific in the legal space.
[00:03:30] Bryan Figueroa: Yeah Jared honestly is a mad genius. I like his approach of, you know, no holds bar. He says how it is and how it needs to be and whether that’s, you know, too strong, it doesn’t really matter, right? Because he’s driving the point across and ultimately that’s what’s allowed him and his clients to, you know, reach the heights of where they’re at now.
[00:03:44] Bryan Figueroa: So yeah, big fan of Jared as well. Any moment I get to just pick his brain, I do.
[00:03:49] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I do that too. I kind of set time up with him here and there just to sort of say, Hey man, what’s going on, what’s new and what can I help you with? What can you help me with? And. I think that was one of the things that was the impetus for us meeting is that connection and checking in with Jared.
[00:04:02] Steve Fretzin: Let’s also go with our quote of the show that you gave me up, gave up for me. It’s a John D. Rockefeller. We don’t get him very often. Don’t be afraid to give up the good to go for the great. I wonder if that was the that was the good to great book that was written later on, but talk about that.
[00:04:17] Steve Fretzin: Welcome to the show and talk a little bit about why that quote is your quote of the show.
[00:04:21] Bryan Figueroa: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, being in the business that I am, which is outsourcing and staffing, it’s all about being innovative. And as business owners, you know, we tend to set out these procedures and SOP standards of operations where, you know, kind of gets stuck in the same cycle because we see that it’s working.
[00:04:37] Bryan Figueroa: Right. But repeating the same things. Let you reach these new heights. And so while something may be good, getting past that fear, right. Of innovation and the challenges that come with it and going through with it, that can reach unparalleled heights. Right. And that’s what I’ve seen. You know, my background is in legal tech and now in staffing, right.
[00:04:53] Bryan Figueroa: I’ve, I’ve been just diving into the legal industry from an operations perspective and just what I’ve seen from other lawyers, right. And I’ve talked to thousands of lawyers at this point in time. If you’re innovative, you’ll grow. If you don’t. You’ll stay right where you are, whether that makes you happy or not.
[00:05:07] Bryan Figueroa: That’s up to you to decide.
[00:05:09] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I think innovative and ability to execute because you can be innovative and creative and not execute and you just stay where you are. You got to have the, you got, and that’s why you and I are in this, right? We’re trying to get people to delegate or we’re getting, trying to get people to take action to make the improvements they need to grow and scale the law practice of their dreams.
[00:05:27] Steve Fretzin: And many of them just kind of sit in the mud by themselves. Doing everything and complaining and, and, and, you know, but I’ve tried everything and it’s not working, but they haven’t really talked to the people who can help them get out of the mud and really start moving things forward.
[00:05:43] Bryan Figueroa: Absolutely.
[00:05:44] Steve Fretzin: So for everybody listening Brian Figueroa is the president of shift six OS and again, support staff for law firms, recruiting and all different levels.
[00:05:52] Steve Fretzin: I mean, that’s been such a hot topic right now in the U S in particular. Lawyers are overworked, overwhelmed, overloaded, and they’re running out of like, how do I, you know, get off this hamster wheel that they’re on the billable hour hamster wheel. So give us a little bit more of your background. How did you get into legal tech and how did you get into eventually getting into staffing?
[00:06:13] Bryan Figueroa: So my, you know, Fresh out of high school, I went into restaurants. It just seemed like the right thing. Right. I needed to get fed. I need to make money. So that’s how we did it. And you know, around the COVID time, my now wife and I were traveling in the Philippines. Curious enough. Right. And when COVID hit, you know, came back.
[00:06:28] Bryan Figueroa: Restaurants really wasn’t it for me anymore. We all know what happened then. Right. And so I decided to get into sales and I just went and just did a. Co calling bootcamp. I’m a little bit of a freak. I enjoyed the cold calling aspect of it. And then I, you know, I just saw the market and wanted to get into an industry where there was growth.
[00:06:45] Bryan Figueroa: And again, I saw that legal tech was just exploding, right? Something happened in COVID where it made everyone wake up and realize, Hey, we need to like actualize the legal industry. Right. And so I got into PC Law Time Matters. And I was with them for a long time. I really learned, you know, operations on that end.
[00:07:04] Bryan Figueroa: And then, you know, after some time I was offered the opportunity to head this company. And so here we are and hoping to do great things here, just like we did at PC Law.
[00:07:12] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, really, really cool stuff. You know, one thing that we, that, you know, we can’t get to business development sometimes as lawyers, and I’m speaking for the lawyers I work with, without better time management and without, and part of time management is effective delegating.
[00:07:25] Steve Fretzin: And so why do you feel like lawyers struggle with letting go and delegating? What are the hangups that, that you’re seeing?
[00:07:32] Bryan Figueroa: Well, I think it really depends on what level their business is at. So I’ll start with the solopreneurs really when anyone’s starting on a business, right, they’re doing it for a couple of reasons.
[00:07:41] Bryan Figueroa: One, they want to be independent, right? They want to control their own revenue and their own future. Two is maybe they’re disgruntled, right? And they’ve had a bad experience in the past working for somebody else and they think they can do it better. Right? So when you have those situations and you form a new company, that’s your baby, right?
[00:07:57] Bryan Figueroa: You don’t want to give your baby over to anyone, right? You’re very protective of your baby. And so as. One keeps working in the business and this happened to me with my own consulting firm. You don’t want to let go Right, you’re so worried that no one can deliver the same level of service that you can deliver But ultimately that’s up to the business owner to control that right?
[00:08:15] Bryan Figueroa: Because with the right standards of operations the right training in place the right vision Every single one of the team members that is hired if due diligence is done correctly will perform accordingly. We’ll Buy into the mission and we’ll help push that forward. And now you don’t have to pretend to be an expert around these different topics, right?
[00:08:33] Bryan Figueroa: Now you can actually get an expert in these different topics to help push your company forward in the areas that you have challenges In because that’s just not where you specialize.
[00:08:41] Steve Fretzin: Yeah
[00:08:41] Bryan Figueroa: now for mid sized firms It’s a little different monster, right? Because when you have a mid sized firm, sometimes there’s different partners in place, right?
[00:08:48] Bryan Figueroa: There’s old technology that you brought on from your inception of your company. And so I think one of those You Kind of a mental roadblocks that one creates is that comfortability, right? Leading back to the quote and why I chose that quote is you’re so happy with being in the good, right? You cannot see the forest from the trees at that point in time.
[00:09:07] Bryan Figueroa: You’re just happy. You’re performing. Things are good. Money’s coming in. Can you be doing it better? Absolutely. And so that’s kind of the, what I’ve seen so far from at least midsize firms.
[00:09:16] Steve Fretzin: And so let’s say somebody does sort of have their act together and they decide that, Hey, it’s, you know, I’ve got all this business coming in.
[00:09:25] Steve Fretzin: I’ve got a great, you know, website, like things are in good shape. And how do they know when it’s time to bring in somebody to start hiring an associate or to bring in a paralegal and to start looking to scale? What’s the, what are the signs that you would. Say that they would have
[00:09:41] Bryan Figueroa: absolutely. So again, I’ll break this down into two categories because, you know, solopreneurs definitely operate much differently than a midsize or even a small law firm at this point in time.
[00:09:50] Bryan Figueroa: Right. With a few staff members. So for solopreneurs, my very first piece of advice would be recognize your strengths and weaknesses, right? If you want to work in the business. You probably don’t have the right mindset, right? Because you should be working on the business and develop this. And so as a business owner and operator, right, having your hands in many pots that can create bottlenecks within your organization, that’s why it’s important to recognize what those are first, to be able to create a plan.
[00:10:14] Bryan Figueroa: And that’s actually my second tip on that, right? Have a plan. You need to know. When you’ll be able to bring someone on without going broke, right? And so having that budget set aside, right, what kind of organizational structure you want down the line, what kind of goals do you want to reach that will really help you bring forward that plan, right?
[00:10:33] Bryan Figueroa: Third thing is take inventory of your non net revenue generating tasks, right? As a business owner, you’re gonna have your business development front. Then you’re gonna have things that must happen in the business, but might not necessarily bring in money, right? And so being able to look at. All of it, your non revenue generating tasks versus revenue generating tasks, right?
[00:10:51] Bryan Figueroa: As a solopreneur, you can hire someone to do these tasks at a less expensive rate than what your hourly rate is. Yeah. Right. So the idea, but
[00:10:59] Steve Fretzin: the idea that like they’re both, they’re doing their own bookkeeping, they’re sending out their own invoices, they’re handling a ton of administrative tasks. Right?
[00:11:07] Steve Fretzin: Because they don’t have an administrator part time or full time. Like these are some of the things that bother me because they’re 20 an hour tasks or even 50 an hour tasks that they’re killing their time half the day doing.
[00:11:20] Bryan Figueroa: Exactly. And that’s that confusion of, you know, being in the mud and not being able to see that forest from the trees, right.
[00:11:25] Bryan Figueroa: Is you’re just stuck in it because you don’t know how to do it differently. And so that’s why I take that’s why my third tip would be, you know, just take that inventory. The fourth one is look for candidates who have three to four specialty areas or experiences that can help boost your firm, right?
[00:11:40] Bryan Figueroa: You don’t want to get someone that’s a jack of all trades per se, because you know what they say, jack of all trades, master of none, right? When you have that focus of three to four specialty experiences, right? You bring those people in now that’s off your hands with the proper training, the proper standards of operations.
[00:11:56] Bryan Figueroa: Guess what? Now you have someone that’s pushing just as strong as you are, right? So looking for candidates with three to four specialty experiences has been a game changer for us. That’s actually how I hire for my internal team. Right. Because I can’t do it all as much as I want to do it all. So I need people with those experiences to push us forward.
[00:12:12] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And where does technology and process come in, in this scheme? And let’s focus on just for the purpose of this conversation, moving forward, let’s forget about mid market for the time being. And if you’re a mid market lawyer, no apologies. It’s, it’s all valuable anyway, cause you’re going to. Maybe you’ll go out on your own.
[00:12:28] Steve Fretzin: This is good stuff to know. Is it hire and get your team in place first or is it get technology and processes for your people first? What’s the order that people should consider scaling and when do you bring in the different variables?
[00:12:44] Bryan Figueroa: Well, I think it’s going to really vary based on the individual, but from what I’ve seen, I want to say 80 percent and above technology, right?
[00:12:51] Bryan Figueroa: Because when you first start out, you have a limited bank, right? You have limited revenue coming in and technology is much, much cheaper than having a full time body or even a part time body in your office, right? And so again, with selecting the right technology, I think that comes first. And it comes out like a practice that
[00:13:07] Steve Fretzin: in the form of a practice management system is a starting
[00:13:09] Bryan Figueroa: point.
[00:13:09] Bryan Figueroa: I mean, it can really, really vary, right? I would always recommend a practice management suite because I believe in a one central source of truth. As you scale, you want all your stakeholders to be able to view exactly what they need to view in rapid time and in lifetime. Right. And so start with that.
[00:13:24] Bryan Figueroa: Part of that includes what are you after? Is it a niche practice or is it a general practice, right? There’s going to be specialty software designed for those niche practices. Or if you’re looking for a more general practice, there have those as well. What goals do you have? Right. Boutique. Are you trying to build a conglomerate?
[00:13:41] Bryan Figueroa: Third thing is what are your strengths and challenge areas with your current practice? Is it client intake? Right. Is it marketing? Is it being able to convert leads? Is it the accounting portion? That’s just driving you nuts because you’re spending too much time. The right technology will help you facilitate these processes as you grow.
[00:13:58] Bryan Figueroa: And then this one’s really, I haven’t heard in any podcasts, but you have to evaluate your court’s needs. Right. Not all courts are made equal and not all courts accept all technology. And so checking with your courts is of the utmost importance because if you buy something and your court doesn’t accept it, guess what?
[00:14:14] Bryan Figueroa: Now you have a product that you can’t use.
[00:14:16] Steve Fretzin: Okay. That’s interesting. Yeah, that hasn’t really come up, but but important. So, all right. So, It really depends. It’s sort of a very lawyer answer. So congratulations on that. But it’s, I think, no, you said technology sort of like get like as a solo, maybe bringing in one person, like get your technology in place so that you can bring in people, get them into that technology with you so that you then scaling, leveraging the technology.
[00:14:39] Steve Fretzin: And then processes like SOPs, standard operating procedures, that typically then happens after you bring in a core of people because they’re going to need those SOPs along with you, or is that something you create before you start bringing in staff?
[00:14:53] Bryan Figueroa: I say you should definitely create it before you start bringing in staff, right?
[00:14:57] Bryan Figueroa: Like it’s impossible to find a time when you have first staff member, but that first staff member should a hundred percent be able to help you build those SOPs, right? Because this is how you were trained. So I think your first hire is one of your most important hires, because once you have that in place, they can help you develop that.
[00:15:13] Bryan Figueroa: And as new team members come in. Be willing to adjust those right because so far you’re operating with two people when you add a third one to the mix Things change when you add five more people to the mix things change as well, right? So that evolution has to be ongoing and should always be set in place prior to the hiring.
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[00:15:50] Steve Fretzin: io today. Hey everybody, Steve Fretzin here. Man, I thought I was a good marketer, but maybe not. Lawyers have been a problem. What’s the Rainmakers Roundtable? Well, I tell them this is a special place created exclusively for rainmaking lawyers to continue their journey of prosperity. Our program is unique as every member has a significant book of business and is motivated to grow it year after year.
[00:16:13] Steve Fretzin: Where else does this exist? If you’re a managing partner who’s looking to get off your lonely island and talk shopping, With America’s top rate makers, please go to my website, Fretzin. com and apply for membership today. So I have a four person firm, me and three other lawyers. We have some support staff and I want to scale, like I want to get this to 2035 people.
[00:16:37] Steve Fretzin: Like I see the vision and my vision for my future. And this is a made up scenario, everybody, obviously that that this is the growth. So how do I scale the business without messing up what I have? I think that’s the big scare. The big fear is I’m making money. Things are good. People are happy. We’ve got good culture.
[00:16:56] Steve Fretzin: And now I want to bring, you know, double, triple, quadruple the size, and I don’t want to mess up what I have. So how do people start to think about That when they have those concerns in the back of their head
[00:17:06] Bryan Figueroa: about the vision, right? You got to set the vision out first again It goes back to where do you want to expand to how quickly do you want to expand right?
[00:17:14] Bryan Figueroa: And so being able to have that in place one is important because it lets you know where you’re trying to reach Right, and so once you have that then you look at where in your team You’re going to need to kind of invest in, right? If you want to expand your practice and offer just different practice areas, you know, people to hire your services for, then guess what?
[00:17:32] Bryan Figueroa: And that means you have to bring in an extra attorney, right, for that attorney. So it’s really about having that plan and that’s something that, you know, I talk with all of my clients personally because, you know, I don’t say yes to everyone, right? Sometimes people approach me prematurely and I have to just kind of walk them back and let them know that maybe it’s not the right time.
[00:17:50] Steve Fretzin: So I think it sounds like we’re maybe not only setting up the vision for ourselves, but we are establishing the vision for the people that are joining because they’re going to be the first four of something that will be scaled out and they’d like that idea. It’s not something I’m surprising them with because that may be, they may have a different feeling about that culture versus.
[00:18:08] Steve Fretzin: You know, sharing that up front that, Hey, you know, this is where we’re starting. And the vision is this, and are you in on that or not? Right. And making sure that they are, because they want to grow with you.
[00:18:17] Bryan Figueroa: Exactly. Those four core team members, right? They’re your new stakeholders, right? They’re the ones that are driving you forward.
[00:18:22] Bryan Figueroa: So it’s important to be in sync with them because if they’re bought into your vision or your goal, that’s priceless. That really is right. Because now you have a full team that operates like a family. That’s really pushing forward and giving you the ability to scale your business with their support.
[00:18:36] Steve Fretzin: Are there any potential pitfalls to scaling that you’ve seen, like mistakes that people are making?
[00:18:42] Steve Fretzin: That they could look out for and maybe avoid because they’re hearing this podcast and hearing you Brian talk about it. What are a couple things there that they should look out for?
[00:18:50] Bryan Figueroa: I think some people get a little just caught up with their frenzy and they hire too fast before the revenue can support, you know, the new employee.
[00:19:00] Bryan Figueroa: And so that’s why I think having that inventory can help prevent that. But that’s definitely a pitfall that I’ve seen where someone’s just hiring, hiring, hiring. And then out of nowhere, we would go through a slow season, right? And when you hit that slow season, these employees have to get paid. Where’s that money coming from?
[00:19:14] Bryan Figueroa: So that’s definitely a pitfall. Also, you have to make sure you can pay your staff without going broke because once you do have staff members, Hey, not paying them is a quick way to have them not show up ever again. Right.
[00:19:25] Steve Fretzin: Yeah.
[00:19:26] Bryan Figueroa: Third way to avoid a pitfall or pitfalls that I’ve seen is not hiring the contractors to your point, right?
[00:19:30] Bryan Figueroa: Like accounting, when you’re starting out. Your time is so valuable and that’s a commodity we can’t get back. And so not hiring contractors, not outsourcing, that has been a detrimental pitfall, also not incorporating the right technology, not doing the right research or not bringing the right person with the right knowledge to help you navigate these issues that has been awful for people.
[00:19:52] Bryan Figueroa: And, you know, it leads to them reverting back to pen and paper Excel sheets, like in the old days. And that’s just, we shouldn’t be doing that
[00:19:59] Steve Fretzin: now. And I’ll give a plug real quick to our friend business development because when we talk about cash flow, right. And having, you know, a hundred grand in the bank, 200 grand in the bank and not having to be on loans, business development did that.
[00:20:14] Steve Fretzin: That’s what’s allowing you to build up that cash reserve to make good decisions about scaling and wind scaling versus being in debt, doing it. So I think, you know, that another reason you really want to, you know, delegate away things that allow you more business development time, because that’s going to help build the sustainability for the future.
[00:20:32] Steve Fretzin: And by the way, you know, you want to be the rainmaker for the firm and have that, you know, that’s harder to delegate, right? To hire someone and say, Hey, you’re my new lawyer. I don’t know how to do business development. You go figure it out or you go build it. That’s not the way it’s, if you, as the owner have to learn that skill, I believe.
[00:20:49] Steve Fretzin: And then you could potentially teach it to the people you’re bringing on, but ultimately you’re the one that’s on the line for the bills
[00:20:55] Bryan Figueroa: with owner, with being an owner comes ownership. So you have to own every process of the firm, but owning it doesn’t mean micromanaging it. Right. And so it’s a careful balance that, you know, we’re all learning every day.
[00:21:06] Bryan Figueroa: And I think as long as you keep working on it and have it at the very forefront of your mind. You’ll be able to make the positive changes to make sure that you don’t run into that issue.
[00:21:15] Steve Fretzin: So do you have any, I want to get a little bit into staffing in just a moment. I have one question before we do that and it’s around technology because I know that’s your background.
[00:21:22] Steve Fretzin: The, are there some technologies, you know, and I don’t care if we, like I promote the Remarkable 2 and I promote Acuity for auto scheduling. And I don’t have, I talk about Laumatics, right? Because I’m using them a ton these days for all different kinds of automations. In fact, I just sent out one for an event I’m promoting, and instead of having to send out two, three, four hundred emails or send out a newsletter, this was a targeted email that was run through Lawmatics.
[00:21:47] Steve Fretzin: So people just assume that I’m talking to them when in fact it was automated, but that’s okay. Some of them figured it out. So what are a couple of technology hacks or a couple of technologies that you recommend people look into to help them better leverage their data? To scale.
[00:22:03] Bryan Figueroa: Okay. One is the disjointed is avoiding a disjointed tech stack, right?
[00:22:07] Bryan Figueroa: You want to make sure that all the pieces of technology can sync harmoniously with each other, right? Because when you don’t have that very synchronized approach, then you could be missing data. When you have that central source of truth, you look at your entire firm and when you don’t. If you forget that you have an application, you’ll never check that.
[00:22:24] Bryan Figueroa: And by the time you realize it, it’ll be too late. So one is a central source. Okay. Two is really, well, these are more like plugs, right? Just because I’ve seen so many people do great things with these technologies. I mean,
[00:22:34] Steve Fretzin: it’s up to people to make their decisions, if it’s going to work for them and how, but I don’t mind giving away this kind of information.
[00:22:41] Steve Fretzin: If it’s going to help somebody say, Oh my God. And they write that name down and then they, then they get it. And it like saves them a huge amount of time. Like let’s do it. No problem. Right.
[00:22:49] Bryan Figueroa: So, I mean, if you know, if you’re looking at things like lead generation or business development, I mean, the guys from LawBroker up in Toronto are doing crazy stuff that, right.
[00:22:57] Bryan Figueroa: I love LawBroker. I met the team of LawBroker, both John and the CEO, his name is escaping me right now, he’s going to hurt me later, but I met them two Cleo cons ago and, you know, we just stayed in touch, so they’re doing great things if you’re a plaintiff attorney. Right. And you’re working on that solo just level and really don’t have much assistance.
[00:23:15] Bryan Figueroa: Look at programs like Anytime. ai. I mean, they’re able to grab an entire, just 200 page document and summarize it in seconds. That’s automation and that’s how you get ahead, right? Then you have other technologies. I mean, I’m going to go ahead and say it, Clio, right? Clio allows you to achieve that central source of truth because of all the integrations in its marketplace.
[00:23:32] Bryan Figueroa: And so having that visibility, right? Having that vision, that plan will help put that all together.
[00:23:39] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And then, you know, as I mentioned, just some automation tips you know, that I have found to be really effective is, you know, having those auto schedulers in place, not going back and forth, trying to, and I talked to a lovely lady on a cab ride back from a provisor’s.
[00:23:52] Steve Fretzin: Thing and we had this quick, I mean, I mentioned her about the, she was like, I hate that. I hate auto scheduling. Somebody is giving me the job of putting, of like going to their calendar. And then I explained it to her and I said, you know, you can, you can always offer that and dates and times, but ultimately I have found that I would spend about an hour a day going back and forth.
[00:24:09] Steve Fretzin: Hey, Brian, when’s good for you. When’s good for me. You know, you’re busy, I’m busy. And so we’re going back and forth like that. And it’s really inefficient. So that’s one that I really like. And then, as I mentioned, I use a remarkable too. I’m a hundred percent paperless. So I have all my notes for this podcast right here on this tablet.
[00:24:26] Steve Fretzin: Everything is backed up in Dropbox. Everything’s in the cloud. Email myself notes like it’s just so functionally brilliant and did not have paper to deal with anymore is, you know, heavenly. So, and there’s a, there’s just so much I would recommend checking out Charlie Uniman on Facebook. Got a great Facebook group, or maybe it’s LinkedIn.
[00:24:44] Steve Fretzin: It’s, I think it might be Facebook, but he runs like the largest legal tech. I can introduce you, Brian, to him if you don’t know him. He runs like the largest legal tech group in the country. So that might be a good in road any other hacks or technologies, maybe even smaller technologies that you’d know are valuable.
[00:25:00] Bryan Figueroa: Yeah, definitely. I mean, even leveraging things like LinkedIn, right? LinkedIn has automated post. So if you have a very busy schedule, set some time aside 2 3 hours right on the weekend and automate the post for the next month. That’s what we first did when we were starting out. And you know, we don’t have to do that anymore, but that works like a charm, right?
[00:25:16] Bryan Figueroa: Other tools. I mean, it’s a little bit of a hot topic, but using generative AI, right. To create blogs and content. I think that’s a great way to save time and maximize your reach, right? So that’s another quick hack that I can think of. Other things. I mean, you mentioned the scheduler. That’s very big for me.
[00:25:31] Bryan Figueroa: It’s in my signature line. It’s always there and available again. It’s just really determining. What final product you want delivered out of your firm and what kind of experience you want your clients to get. And if they have questions, I’m always have an open book so they can reach out to me.
[00:25:44] Steve Fretzin: Awesome.
[00:25:44] Steve Fretzin: And just so we don’t take a lot of crap for this you were talking about Daniel Steinberg with Law Broker. Yes.
[00:25:49] Bryan Figueroa: Yeah. Sorry, Dan.
[00:25:52] Steve Fretzin: You know, he comes into Chicago, he comes into Chicago for the legal tech show every year, and I always try to get together with him for a drink. And he’s just the nicest guy.
[00:25:59] Steve Fretzin: And he’s always out there trying to help lawyers really get, can get connected on the legal front. On the legal tech side, let’s wrap up with kind of a final thought is like, Staffing there’s individual, like there’s virtual staffing, right? And then there’s like legit in the office staffing. And I think right.
[00:26:17] Steve Fretzin: And so I think people are, and I am a part of this leaning away from in the office and moving more towards, they don’t have to be, can you just talk to that as we kind of wrap things up together?
[00:26:27] Bryan Figueroa: Absolutely. It’s all about trust and how much trust you have in your team. Right. And some people. Virtual work will never work for them because they just don’t have that trust.
[00:26:34] Bryan Figueroa: And they didn’t grow up with those type of work structures in place. Right. But again, those innovative lawyers, it really changes up the dynamic because by leveraging staffing agencies, such as mine or maybe others, right. In person staffing agencies, you can achieve a lot of great things. One, you have a minimized hiring time, right?
[00:26:52] Bryan Figueroa: You’re no longer actually carrying it out, the process, sifting through resumes, evaluating candidates, checking, you know, references. Let someone else handle that for you because your time is just too valuable, right? Also, you can access talent that you probably have never been able to access if you go virtual, right?
[00:27:07] Bryan Figueroa: Aside from being able to access all 50 states instead of the state that you’re in, right? Now you can actually access global talent and that’s where organizations like mine can really make an impact for their organizations, right? We specialize in hiring and allow firm support staff. So what does that mean?
[00:27:21] Bryan Figueroa: It means instead of spending your 70, 80, maybe 90K on a paralegal, Be spending a lot less than that for the same talent, the same value and someone that’s just as dedicated. And on top of that, we hope you monitor them. So if you do have that concern, right, that someone might not be performing remotely, you know, do some research on the companies, on the vendors that you’re working with and make sure that they have an action plan to present to you with those concerns that you have and make sure that those are addressed.
[00:27:46] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And look, I don’t want to take American and jobs away and that is sort of been played out for 20 years. Right. It’s look, we all are in this to help our clients to make money to take care of, you know, our families and all that we need to look at all any and all resources, whether that’s technology, staffing, whatever it might be.
[00:28:03] Steve Fretzin: And I’ve been using virtual assistants for, I don’t know, the last four or five years. It’s been absolutely phenomenal. So couldn’t be happier with it. If people want to get in touch with you, Brian, they want to hear more about. Yeah. Shift 6 OS, what are the best ways for them to reach you?
[00:28:17] Bryan Figueroa: I’m on LinkedIn.
[00:28:17] Bryan Figueroa: I’m always on LinkedIn. So just a message will do fine. You can also email me if you want. I’ll share my email with you and we can make sure we put that on. Yeah. It’ll all be in the show notes
[00:28:26] Steve Fretzin: too. Yeah.
[00:28:27] Bryan Figueroa: Yeah. And ultimately just if you see me out in the events, because we’re constantly at events, say hi.
[00:28:31] Bryan Figueroa: You know, I’m very approachable. I’m very happy to talk about it and I can nerd out for hours. Hours, so I’m always open book and willing to talk to anyone that’s, you know, that has questions.
[00:28:40] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And it’s amazing. We have a podcast that we both love and have a lot of endearment for in Gary miles. The free lawyer and you know what I love about Gary is living it.
[00:28:51] Steve Fretzin: He’s living what he talks about in the interviews. You can tell, talk a little bit, just 30 seconds on the free lawyer. What’s that about?
[00:28:57] Bryan Figueroa: Yeah. So he takes a very I mean, again, he takes a very unique approach in focusing in lawyer wellness, which again is, it’s talked about, right, but it’s not being addressed.
[00:29:06] Bryan Figueroa: And so what I’ve learned from him is just tips on how to manage my stress, right. How to be able to. Row through my stress and it’s just phenomenal. I try to catch any new podcasts that he releases and I am subscribed to his newsletter. So I actually just got one a few minutes ago, but yeah, Gary is phenomenal.
[00:29:23] Bryan Figueroa: I connected with him two years ago and you know, I’m hoping to link up with him soon in North Carolina.
[00:29:27] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, there you go. And he’s been on my show a bunch of times and I just appreciate him and everything he does in our friendship. Hey, everybody, as we wrap up, want to thank our sponsors, of course, rankings IO, just crushing it for the law firms that engage them in the marketing efforts.
[00:29:40] Steve Fretzin: And then the podcast law her in. So that’s, you know, it can be for anybody, but specifically for women, you know, to get, you know, all the tips and ideas and encouragement to be their best selves as in the legal profession. Brian, thanks so much for being on the show. I’m so happy that your Korea introduced us.
[00:29:56] Steve Fretzin: I know there’s more for us to talk about beyond this podcast, and I want to continue the relationship with you. And hopefully you guys all check out Brian online. And again, look at, you You know, scaling your, you know, a big step to scaling is getting that the virtual assistance that you need to take those jobs off your plate that you should not be doing.
[00:30:13] Steve Fretzin: So thanks, man.
[00:30:15] Bryan Figueroa: Absolutely. No, thanks for having me, Steve. And I’ll be sure to check out your story on LinkedIn to extremely curious. Yeah.
[00:30:20] Steve Fretzin: Brian was asking about my plane crash. If you want to check that out on LinkedIn, go to my featured section and it’s called uncorking a story. It’s one of the podcasts that I was on where I kind of lay out the whole horrific scenario.
[00:30:32] Steve Fretzin: And kind of what I took away from that experience. So anyway, check that out. And thank you everybody for spending time with Brian and I today on the, Be That Lawyer with Fredson podcast. We are here for your, not only pleasure, but also to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized in a skilled rainmaker.
[00:30:46] Steve Fretzin: Take care, everybody. Be safe. Be well. Talk again soon.
[00:30:53] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, Fretzin. com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.