In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Chris Earley discuss:
- Shifting the lawyer’s mindset from traditional practice to intentional business building
- Using content and social media to establish visibility and credibility
- Leveraging coaching, mentorship, and masterminds to level up professionally
- Bringing authenticity and consistency into legal marketing and personal growth
Key Takeaways:
- Lawyers who develop consistent daily marketing habits—like posting on LinkedIn, asking for speaking gigs, or emailing newsletters—are far more likely to build lasting visibility and client pipelines.
- Podcasting serves as both a relationship engine and a powerful way to generate long-form, repurposable content that can drive compound exposure across multiple channels.
- Coaches, mentors, and mastermind groups accelerate growth by providing accountability, guidance, and fresh strategies that lawyers don’t learn in school or from peers.
- Prioritize personal growth and emotional balance to avoid burnout and sustain momentum, creating space for better decisions, more effective client interactions, and stronger business leadership.
“The lawyer who creates the most content today is going to come out ahead in the future.” — Chris Earley
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Thank you to our Sponsor!
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About Chris Earley: Christopher Earley is the founder and CEO of Earley Law Group Injury Lawyers, a personal injury law firm located in downtown Boston. He is a thought leader in the legal field who writes monthly for the American Bar Association, and he is also a frequent speaker to audiences of attorneys throughout the country.
He hosts The Earley Show Podcast, where he brings on some of the very best attorney-entrepreneurs in the legal industry.
He recently released his memoir, Scaling the Wall: One Man’s Journey of Healing Childhood Trauma to Find Fulfillment and Success.
When not working on growing and scaling his firm, he enjoys spending time with his wife and two children.
He is also a really bad drummer.
He strongly encourages lawyers and law students to contact him because he loves teaching and mentoring.
Connect with Chris Earley:
Website: https://www.chrisearley.com/
Show: The Earley Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-earley-show/id1703274158
Book: Scaling the Wall: One Man’s Journey of Healing Childhood Trauma to Find Fulfillment and Success: https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-Wall-Journey-Childhood-Fullfillment/dp/B0DQWFM2DY
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bostonpersonalinjurylawyer/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/earley-law-group-injury-lawyers/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawofficeofchristopherearley/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/explore/locations/104980886333/earley-law-group-injury-lawyers/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:02]
Hey everybody, big opportunities. Don’t wait on August 27 join me, Steve Fretzin and four powerhouse rainmakers for be that lawyer, live mastering success in just 75 minutes, you’ll learn proven ways to grow your law practice, win more clients and build long, lasting success. It’s only 39 bucks, and you’ll walk away with my entire best-selling ebook collection as a bonus. Save your spot now. Sign up today at fretzin.com/events,
Narrator [00:36]
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, hey everybody.
Steve Fretzin [00:59]
Steve Fretzin, and welcome back to the be that lawyer podcast. We are rocking and a rolling twice a week, every week, forever. Seems like forever. Chris, how long you been doing your podcast? About three, two years. Two years. All right. Well, let me know when you get to six, then we’ll have a conversation about it. Now, it’s, but it’s, isn’t it a blast? We just love
Chris Earley [01:19]
doing it right? I just find it’s organic. It’s natural. I just, you know, intimate conversations listened to by many, and hopefully, you know, we’re giving value to people. So I feel like it’s a low lift. I just wrote about this the ABA this month. I feel like lawyers should be podcasting, right? You and I see the benefit. It’s unlimited.
Steve Fretzin [01:36]
Yeah, we’ll get into that in a little bit, because I’ve probably helped a dozen or so lawyers get into podcasting, and I just and they always come back to me, and they’re so grateful that they did it, because I don’t want to give the spoiler, if you will, about like, the benefits of it. So we’ll get we’ll come back to that in a few minutes. But let’s jump right into our quote of the show, which is one of my favorite things to kind of pick someone’s brain about Thomas Edison, his quote is genius is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration. Welcome to the show, Chris, and tell us about that quote.
Chris Earley [02:07]
Thank you, Steve. So I went to Boston University about 100 years ago, and I remember I saw that quote, and I put it on my wall in my apartment, and that’s when I started thinking about go to law school. And I have a very unconventional background, like weird. So let’s go too far into that. But I’ve always been a bit of a underdog, and I do relish, you know, I’d like to work harder than the average bear, and so not the sharpest tacking that we listed to every single law school. Steve I applied to, then one graciously allowed me to get walk in the door. And so I’m a big believer that, you know, what are you doing school, where you go to school doesn’t matter. It’s, are you willing to outwork? Are you willing to hustle? Network, do the do podcast, do your own podcast, all that stuff. So that’s sort of my approach. Is working hard, you
Steve Fretzin [02:56]
know, yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s a yeah, a lot of people have ideas and are inspired. It’s the effort and the stick to itiveness and all of that that really, I think, you know, makes the levels the playing field in many ways. So everybody hang out with Chris Earley and myself. He’s the CEO of early Law Group, Injury Lawyers. And how do we I’m trying to remember how we met, and then we realized after we met that we’re both going to be at Chris Dryer’s PIM Con this year. And we were like, like, our heads exploded. We couldn’t believe, like, the serendipity, or the coincidence, or whatever we want to call it. It was nuts. But hey, man, welcome to show again and give everybody a little bit
Chris Earley [03:32]
your background. No, I appreciate it. It’s good to be here with you. I see you. I reached out to see you. All over. LinkedIn, I’m all over LinkedIn, like, Why aren’t he like, friends yet? Yeah, shout out to you. You’re speaking my language, and we just, you know, we just sort of riffing, and now we’re gonna be speaking at a national stage. Super excited for the pincon opportunity, so we’re gonna crush it, very excited. So I run a PI law firm in Boston, and doing it for about 20 years, and I enjoy scaling, enjoy the business of law, right? I feel like lawyers are getting a little bit more sensitive to it being a business as opposed to a practice. So I would like to see the profession getting more in tune with the business side of things. And so most importantly, in my life, I’m married, I have two kids, and so that’s my why. So I try to engineer my business to fuel the life that my family and I want and deserve. So that’s kind of how I set things up, very intentionally. So yeah,
Steve Fretzin [04:24]
makes a lot of sense. And how did you get into personal injury? Like, was that by choice? Was that you just got trained that way?
Chris Earley [04:30]
Yeah, no, I don’t I again. I had kind of a weird backstory. I got into law school, I couldn’t get a job. This isn’t 2004 and there were tough economic conditions. Nobody would hire me, literally. And so I had this relationship with a elder, older attorney that fizzled out their few months of a quasi partnership. I hung a shingle, and I didn’t know any better. I know what I was doing. So one thing I would encourage the listener is, you know, sometimes lawyers, it’s like we have to try to get it perfect as to be the perfect, this perfect that before we let it out to see, right? I encourage you just let it rip. So I just let it rip a long time ago, and then took a lot of hits in the mouth, bloody noses, but just kept going. You talk about stick to itness and so not the sharpest tack or the greatest lawyer, but I think with hustle, you can do a lot of good things. And just that’s, I think why I’m here today is just hustling, man, that’s just who I am.
Steve Fretzin [05:19]
And, I mean, here’s the good news, I think back then, there was a lot of overhead, and there was a lot of moving parts that people had to figure out. And today, you’ve got, you know, books and videos, and you’ve got mentors, and you’ve got all kinds of people that can help you maneuver through setting up a shop. And, I mean, I even spoke to a new a criminal attorney a week or two ago, and she’s crushing it, but is, like, has all these concerns with scaling and Money and Finance and all this stuff, and I, and I just, like, calmed her down. I go, Look, you know, it’s you’re doing great. You just need a little bit of coaching or a little bit of help. I’m not the right person, but let me, you know, get you to some people, and let me also just tell you, you know you’re doing great. And she was like, I just needed to hear that. But it’s, I think it’s just easier now than ever to hang a shingle, if that’s your desire, and you have that
Chris Earley [06:11]
entrepreneurial spirit. I can’t agree more. So we have it’s, you know, yes, it’s more competitive to get clients, all of us lawyers. We have social media. LinkedIn in is a massive blue ocean opportunity for connections for business. There’s AI. I mean, I hate to be a curmudgeon, middle aged man, but, like, there’s so many good things that weren’t there back in the day. And so I think there’s so the barrier to entry is much lower than it was, say, two decades ago. So if you have that itch, generally say the best time you know to go for was yesterday. Best time is today, but I think it’s got much more accessible. As you said, there’s knowledge, there’s YouTube, there’s a plethora of podcasts, there’s so much info on how to do it. You just, you could just accelerate your growth, right? Accelerate your trajectory by learning from those you mentioned, coaching. Coaching was the best decision I ever made. There was time we had a few coaches at the same time. And you know, I know you have all the masterminds. I’m a mastermind maniac. I feel like that’s where the stuff, the real growth happens. How you level up? So encourage lawyers get to coaching eventually, when it’s right, get into a mastermind, get the right mastermind, and once you level up out of that mastermind, go to another one. So you keep growing. But yeah, so many opportunities out there.
Steve Fretzin [07:17]
Yeah, and I’d be remiss not to mention the rainmakers roundtable, everybody we’ve got, you know, probably around 40 attorneys right now that are all top players, rainmakers, that are sharing their problems, sharing their successes, holding each other accountable. I’m bringing in all types of top level guest speakers. I mean, it’s really a great environment. And so just I believe in masterminds, and I believe in the ability for someone to get, you know, really, really good information and advice and then be held accountable that you just can’t do on your own. It’s like being on an island. It’s no good. Oh, you can’t, as someone said recently, or read, nothing good happens beyond a computer. Like you got to get out. You got to get on airplanes and get into rooms with lawyers across the country, geeking out, learning about the business of law, because if you’re not doing that, you’re going to get passed by no matter what you’re trying to do. I think you always need to be growing in whatever area of law, whatever level you’re trying to get your practice to. Yeah, let’s dive into it a little bit. We’ve got, you know, marketing and we’ve got branding, we’ve got advertising, we’ve got business development, we’ve got networking, all these words being thrown at lawyers that I think can become confusing because there’s just too much to sort of take in and manage. How do you put all that together, like, how do you see marketing and business development all those different pieces and how they should work for a lawyer, for even whether someone at a law firm or someone you know, that’s on their own,
Chris Earley [08:46]
I think the lawyer that gets the phone to ring wins. So you know what you said is spot on. You gotta generate business activity, or else you can’t go to court, you can’t do depositions, you can’t settle cases. So first and foremost, number one, getting the phone ring, how do you do that, right? I think daily activities, you know, daily golden habits. Are you asking for speaking opportunities? Are you posting on LinkedIn? Are you sending out newsletters? There’s a million ways to generate business, but you have to do to those daily reps, golden habits, just a little bit each day on the business in order to grow the business, right? But I think, you know, honestly, like, there’s a lot of lawyers. They don’t teach us this stuff in law school. Steve, we don’t talk about marketing. We don’t talk about KPIs. Like, what the heck is a KPI? What are, you know, these numbers that we analyze as, you know, law firm business owners, right? Many of us are aspiring to be that, and I think that we need to, if we’re not good at marketing, we need to hire someone who wins. Like, bring in a legal system. You can hire someone out of the country, you know, who crush it. I had a college student years ago who came up with my slogan because my last name is early. My slogan is call early before it’s too late, right? But then on billboards and pop, you know, but it’s everywhere, and we copyright that thing. So I would have never, a trillion years. You’ve thought of that like I could live 100 lives. I would never. Thought of that now the chat. GBT, maybe my odds were better, however, yeah, I think you got to get someone helping you get the phone ring if you’re not, if that’s not your strong suit, and just be honest with yourself.
Steve Fretzin [10:12]
Well, the reality is that different lawyers in different practice areas in different parts of the country, you know, at different levels, B and B to B to C, everybody needs to have their own unique marketing plan. And I would never take a corporate attorney from a mid market firm that’s doing M and A and say, Hey, let’s get you on a billboard, right? Like, that’s right. Why not? Well, maybe, I mean, that could be fun, right? But ultimately, you know, there’s, you know, we are always looking to figure out what’s the low hanging fruit on the business development side, and what’s going to be the marketing that’s going to help make that business development effort shine. So for example, if somebody is in m a mid market, right? So it’s going to be relationships, strategic partners, referral clients and everything else. Can they? Should they be posting on LinkedIn, the business social media tool, about new laws in M and A, and sharing some authentic, real things about them and how they are with their kids, and how that relates back to business and M and A, and we’re building, and we’re, you know, whatever.
Chris Earley [11:15]
Hell yeah, yeah. 100% you just described you went on a fishing trip recently, right? Well, I look at marketing like fishing. So we’re putting lines on the water. You need to identify if you’re an M and A attorney. No, billboards aren’t your play, right? LinkedIn should be every lawyers and every lawyer’s arsenal, but you got to put those lines the water. Fine, all right. Where are the fish at? Like, where are my clients at? And all of us, you know, lawyers, we are problem solvers. That’s all we are. At the end of day, we’re solving problems. So how can you get in front of people who have the problems that you’re good at solving? And to take a step further, how can you solve it better than the guy down the street? How are you different in this overly congested feel? But yeah, I think fish, where there’s fish, no matter what you’re trying to do, you get the phone to ring and everything, pretty much gets taken care of.
Steve Fretzin [11:57]
I was driving out on a boat with my father in law, who I call the fisherman, Cervantes. The guy can tell you what kind of fish it is, just from the feel on the line, when he puts his finger on line, it’s sick. He sees just so good, incredibly good and experienced. And drives me nuts, because he’ll catch, you know, 10 fish, and I’ll catch three, and I’ll be upset about it, but we’re driving out on the boat, and it pops into my head, hey, I think there’s an article here. So when you say, you know, go where the fish are. That’s exactly what he does. He knows where the reefs are in the lake, and that’s where the fish are, and that’s where we go. And then if one color jig doesn’t work, someone’s catching fish on a white jig, and I’m using an orange jig, maybe I switch to white because someone else is catching on white, I’m going to catch on white. So it’s like there’s a lot of synergies in that analogy, and I don’t think lawyers are being introspective enough about what’s working for others, and trying to work with a coach, or work with someone, a mentor, whatever, a lawyer friend that could help direct them to have a plan or to at least go in the right direction. I think sometimes it’s just all over the place.
Chris Earley [12:59]
We don’t know what. I think we need an outsider, objective outsider, who can tell us, like John, you gotta, are you out do this? You gotta get out of your own way sometimes, right? No matter what you know, what kind of law you know, even if you don’t run a practice, I’m sure your boss expects you to bring in business. I mean, all lawyers want to continue that pipeline of new work. So this applies, this conversation is universal, right? Applies to all wars, all practice areas. I’m a big believer in. Let’s talk about fishing like, getting a little bit better with fishing each day, like Kaizen, right? Just a little bit of the we’re not going for home runs here. We’re just going for a little bunch. Maybe singles, doubles would be wonderful. But we’re just optimizing the approach. So on the fishing line, we’re getting a little bit more better each and every day, right? But we’re willing to do the work. This goes back to the beginning of sort of out hustling, right? We have enough stick to. And as we keep doing and doing over time, I think you pop, you have to go through that period of and then, boom, you go up. And that’s what I believe you know over time.
Steve Fretzin [13:56]
But isn’t it interesting, Chris, that if I’m and I’m a big like, I’m changing subjects completely from fishing to smoking meat. I’ve been smoking meat now for a couple years, and every time I make ribs, I want to make them a little bit better. Every time I make salmon, I want to make it a little bit better. And but interestingly enough, it seems with business development and even a little bit with marketing, that some people will just go out and network, and they go out and meet people, and they say the same thing. They do the same thing, they get the same crappy results. They don’t change anything. And so then we go back to the saying, Did you do you have 10 years of experience networking, or do you have one year experience 10 times? Right? Yeah, because you haven’t looked back, you haven’t stopped long enough to say, is this working? Are the people I’m involved with, are the things I’m saying with questions I’m asking or not asking is my approach even working, and I’m just spinning through time and expecting to eventually get results that are nowhere near what they should be.
Chris Earley [14:50]
I’m with you. I’m a big believer in standing out, right? I think I got this from Dan Kennedy Ben Glass, for sure, standing out being different. Right? Like, really, how can you do even if you’re an m&a attorney, there’s a perception or sort of, you know, not the most it maybe can be looked at as dry, right? You can be a very, you know, charismatic m&a attorney, and just showing up differently has really done me well, and I wish I knew that earlier. I encourage the younger attorneys as well as the older attorneys, everyone in between, like, be different, like, you don’t have to be a boring lawyer. I feel like a lot of us are boring. I was a boring lawyer for many, many years, but I try not to be boring out. So try to stand out. And I think you could become a magnet of attention that brings cases and that brings work towards you. It’s good.
Steve Fretzin [15:42]
You Hey, pi attorneys, if you’re serious about scaling your firm, there’s one event you can’t afford to miss. Pim con 2025 happening October 5 through the eighth at the Phoenician resort in Scottsdale, Arizona. Pimcon isn’t your average legal conference. It’s an experience. Learn how to take your firm from good to goat with some of the biggest trailblazers in the PI space, including yours truly, as we share our elite marketing and brand building strategies. Tickets on sale [email protected] That’s B, I m, c o n.org, or just hit the link in the show notes. Your climb to the top starts at pimcon 2025 let’s go from good to go. Hey, be that lawyer friends. If you’re looking for smarter ways to grow your law practice and want to stay ahead of the curve in legal tech, business and strategy, then it’s time to check out legal verse media, the go to hub for lawyers who want more. This international platform connects you with global thought leaders through articles, podcasts, webinars and interactive forums that are shaping the future of law, explore everything with a free 14 day trial, including early access to tools peer discussions and a chance to build your brand as a thought leader. Don’t wait. Visit legalverse media.com and register for membership today. Hey everybody, it’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice, just head over to fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you. And let’s make this your breakout year. So I mean, I think that’s where business development and marketing can come together, because you can stand out in your relationships. You can stand out in being a giver, in directing business and effort and energy to people and then helping them to help you back while that’s going on, there are opportunities to brand yourself be that. Lawyer, right, better early than late, you know, anything like that can help you sort of not be the same. You know, white bread, you know, personal injury. Attorney, or M and
Chris Earley [17:56]
A state Yeah? Attorney, yeah, yeah. How are you different? How are you better at fixing, designing the mousetrap than than the guy or gal down the street. I think you had on your show. I know you had in your podcast, usually John Morgan, and speaking about guests, he was the first guest of my podcast, and he’s very inspiring, right? Lot of lessons. He’s just spouting knowledge and lessons, and he talks about a lot of different things, but a lot of his, you know, trying to be a visionary, seeing what’s out there, seeing what’s coming. I think that’s really important, because the law is being changed in revolutionary wage or health AI, how can you do better? But also, what he talks about is being a giver. You just talked about that giving. I truly wish I started giving earlier my career. Those who give gain so much. I think you should give to gain. But if you I go on LinkedIn, see if I talk about how I generate work, how I do this, I do that, and what happens, like, it’s like a magnet people who reach out, because it’s just, it’s a little you’re being different. You’re not being a self serving lawyer, like, hey, like, pounding my chest. See this big verdict I just got no, it’s like, here’s how I struggle, and here’s some things that I work on, and you’re just being vulnerable and open. I just want to share. I have a an E newsletter that goes out to almost 1000 lawyers across the country, and I give in this E newsletter every week. It’s practice tip of the week.com. I get nothing out of that, except for geeking out and hoping that a few people open it up. But practice, tip of the week.com. I’ll share with you some stuff I heard you share your knowledge, right? Like we went to school for a long time. We read a lot of books, we consume podcasts. Leverage your knowledge and opportunities, right? You and I leverage opportunities. Now we’re going, we’re going to go speak on stage together and in front of a big room, but that was an overnight thing, right? We worked a lot towards that. We leverage. You wrote your book right behind you, right? You’ve written books. You’re doing six years of podcasting, right? A lot of people do six days of podcasts. Oh, I didn’t get any work. It didn’t work. I’m an abandoned ship. Yeah? Next venture is like, No, you got to stick with it. Because there was a time with my podcast it was like, not seeing anything, and then, like, it just pops. So you have to learn to stick with it until you get the pop. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [19:57]
And the thing too is, like, there’s data about podcasts. And stuff, but it doesn’t, it’s not accurate. And then I’ll run into some random person at a networking event. Oh, I’ve been listening to your podcast for years, or I just went back and listened to all of them and and it’s just like, in there, really happy with with the content, and happy that you’re doing this for them and for the industry. And it’s like, for me, you know, yeah, I want to take care of my family. I want to take, you know, that, you know, more fishing trips with my son. I want to do all these things, you know, I send him to college and all this stuff. But ultimately, like, my life’s work is going to be what I leave this, you know, leaving this industry better than I found it. I love it. I really feel strongly about that. Yeah, so that’s that’s exciting to me in the book, too. Lately, it’s just been off the hook. I’m just so excited that I’m able to, you know, to put out content that people can enjoy and that that’s helpful in an area that, typically, to your point, they didn’t get in in law school or even
Chris Earley [20:48]
at the law firm level. I love that writing a book is how I move. I wrote a memoir recently. It’s not law related. It’s a little bit about law, but it’s about how I’m different, you know, just in my own unique way, good, better and different. So I drop that on people. I’ll drop a copy on you in Arizona. Just, you know, I’m sure of you dropping your book on people, right? Just distributing because, like, it’s a freaking book, and so you gotta, that’s you did the hard work. But the harder work is, like, getting that out and advertising that book. That’s the tricky part. But again, you don’t have to write a book, but just stand out, be different. Find a catchy slogan. Your bi lawyer, great. You’re a bankruptcy lawyer. Create a, you know, kick ass customer service. You get a ton of referrals. There’s so many ways to skin a cat here. But again, if it’s if you’re smoking the meat, and you’re smoking the meat, okay, okay, something different, something different, and then you’re going to have that pop. Oh my god, the flavor is off the chain on this one, right? Yeah, I found it, right,
Steve Fretzin [21:39]
but it’s we have to all consider the importance of evolving and improving, and if we’re just staying sentiment, you know, again, staring at the screen, or we’re not taking risks, or we’re not like with our teenagers, right, like the or kids in general, like we’re just bulldozing everything out of their way so they have no issues to deal with. Well, then what does that mean for them as adults when they have a tough boss? Or what does that mean when does that mean when they have to deal with a girl they like or a guy they like, and the rejection that may come with it, like they’re going to be completely unprepared. So it’s like we need to step out of comfort zones with business development, marketing, you know, obviously being, you know, part of that, there’s other things you could do, but that’s obviously this show. And if we don’t then, you know, we just stay, we stay where we are, and then we’re putting ourselves at risk, that business may slow down, that we may lose a client that produces 25 or more percent of a business for our firm. All kinds of problems can come from that.
Chris Earley [22:34]
When I first started practicing, a lawyer taught me, my mentor said, You got to prime the pump. And I’m like, prime the pump. I went to law school. I’m gonna get a ton of work here. We stream my man, and I think about that every day in my life. Steve, you gotta prime the freaking pump, right? Keep prime and keep prime and keep doing it. That’s all we’re talking about in this show. Is just like, this is, like, pretty easy stuff. It’s hard, but it’s freaking simple. Just like those things, are you doing the work on LinkedIn? Are you sending out again, the newsletters? Are you? Are you doing public speaking, getting on podcasts? Are you doing your own podcast? Like, I’m a big I still listen to mankind just daily action, like you said, like, how much action? Be honest with yourself, like, you do a lot of action. You’re an active guy here. I’m an active guy, but be honest with yourself, if you’re not, how can you get more active? You’re just hiding, you know, behind your desk, helping that the phone. It’s not going to happen. You got to hustle. You got to go get that work. Yeah, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [23:22]
And I think part of it now today is it’s in nobody’s proving this more than our current president and other people, that it’s all about attention. We’re in the attention generation, and you’re either playing the game or you’re not playing the game. If you’re on LinkedIn and you’re playing the game and you’re posting and you’re active and you’re setting yourself hard, you’re saying to yourself, well, no one’s even going to notice because everyone’s doing it. No, not everyone’s doing it. Everyone’s doing it. And you’re in the game and you’re playing ball, other people are sitting on the sidelines, and they’re going to be they’re going to feel it in a few years, when things chill out. But how lawyer one of the issues lawyers have is creating content, because they’re like, all right, I want to be on LinkedIn. I agree with you guys. I need to be there. What am I putting up there? I don’t have anything. And there’s, I don’t want to get into the whole rigamarole of rigamarole of just getting started, although that’s important. Let’s talk about content creation, and let’s talk about podcasting, and why that may be, for some lawyers, a hidden treasure.
Chris Earley [24:13]
Oh, I so I’m a big I’m a big fan of it. And this goes back to what we talked about earlier. You know, Done is better than perfect. I didn’t sit down see and sit down see and say, okay, like, what am I gonna do? Who am I gonna interview in the podcast? I just like, hit play and I took a chance. I asked John Morton, hey, we have my podcast. Sure, man. We had a two hour conversation, a real deal conversation. Like, okay, so once Morton came on, it was easier to attract other big dogs. So, right? So we got to be methodical and intentional about what we’re doing here, why we’re doing it. But like you, like me, you gotta give value to people. That’s what this whole podcast, this conversation with me and you helping people out, giving value, right like you and I are chest pumped, hitting our chest and bragging on this podcast. I was like, we’re helping people, help the legal community in whatever small way we can right to impact. But you just said before, you’re not really chasing glory. You’re chasing. You know, lasting, enduring impact, and that’s gonna that influences your, you know, your kids success, because they see what Dad’s doing, right? That’s why I wrote a memoirs. I grew up in a very insane environment which preordained that I’d likely be in jail, and so that’s why I wrote a memoir. So I’m like, you know, how can I stand out? Tell your story. So if you’re trying to get your voice on LinkedIn, be authentic. Like I just talked a little bit on LinkedIn today about being authentic. And people like that stuff, because it’s like, who doesn’t, you know, tell stories. Tell how you started your practice, how you started your business, how you got fired, how you got off your feet, how you got rejected by that girl in high school. But then, you know, you it was best thing ever, like these opportunities that are all around you. I just think you have to see the good that’s in front of us.
Steve Fretzin [25:42]
But here’s the unique thing about yes to everything you just said, and here’s the best thing about podcasting. There are people that call me up and they say, Look, I’ve been listening to you for X number of years or months or whatever. I feel like I know the guy said. I know you don’t know me at all, but I know you really well, like I feel like I thought we’ve been friends for years, and you’re the guy that I want to work with, because I believe, you know, based on everything I’ve read and seen and blah blah, and so yes, there’s business to be had, potentially from a podcast, but let’s that’s one part of it. The other is you and I are meeting I’m meeting John Morgan. I’m meeting all these cool people and getting to build these relationships with super interesting people that can refer me, that I can refer, and we can just build these relationships. And by the way, Bs, how much content do I have? 530 500 plus, 30 minute episodes of video, of audio and of what I call Blogcast that also then helped me create the book. So I’m having our book around the best hits of this podcast. Like, in to think about, you know, what you can do with all that is insane, and it doesn’t have to be. You can say, talk to this, but it’s not me putting together the video. It’s not me publishing the podcast. I’m not doing that crap.
Chris Earley [26:59]
Yep, I’ve delete something else doing it. But like, you know, I learned this. I’m just like, just be a dead horse. Dan Kennedy, right? Talks about, I think, you know, one plus one equals three things like that. Like, when I have something perform well, LinkedIn, I’m gonna put on Instagram. I would put in my in the newsletter, right? Because I have a couple newsletters. But you we talk, we’re talking about creating content. So this podcast, so I took a photo of us before, right? We talked about that. I’m going to post that on LinkedIn. I’m going to post that in my training newsletter. So people like, oh, Fred, let me check out this guy’s podcast if they haven’t already, right? We’re sort of cross pollinating our networks, and that’s a magnificent multiplication of marketing efforts. This is a 30 minute phone call that we’re doing right now on this, you know, on your podcast, but it’s so much bigger than that, right? And the only reason why we’re doing this, I reached out to it’s like I led by your let me in your podcast. You’re like, Sure, let’s do it. You weren’t like, you’re not like, you just let it rip, right? And that’s why you’re successful, and that’s the theme of this. You know our show. You know your show today, our conversation. Let it rip and let it rip. All right? We’ll put that front and center, let it rip. But again, I think, you know, fun. You know, if you enjoy meeting and talking with people. Podcasting can be great if you’re more of an introvert and you’re like, you know what? I’d rather just write, then you can write, oh yeah, you could use AI and become great at AI to find and identify interesting topics and ways of wording things to become a poster on social media and LinkedIn. I mean, there’s lots of different options and ways to get involved. The key thing is, whip it, get it out there. Do it? Whip it, you know? And one, one other thing is that we talk about, the most important part of this whole deal is getting the phone ring, the marketing, and that’s who that’s the lawyer. Who wins? I think the lawyer actually is the one who can create the most content, right? We talk about, we’ve used the word content many times in this in this episode, right? You have to create a lot of content, because you can amplify that, as we said, spin that into so many different ways. I think that’s the lawyer who’s winning today, the lawyer who can sustain that level. Because, you know, it’s hard. There’s days when you got a million fires and you got to do the podcast, you got to write the book, you know, like, but you intentionally put that into your daily routine. So it got done. But I think it’s really important just again, be intentional. If you’re really shy that you just said it so well, write an article. Reach out to American Bar Association that reaches a lot of people. That’s a backlink you can get. You can post that on social media wherever. But I do think the lawyer creates the list content today is going to come out ahead in the future. Now, obviously AI can help with that dramatically, right? It could do so much. It’s we’re just tip of the iceberg right now, but there’s so much opportunity. It’s very exciting. I’m pretty stokable.
Steve Fretzin [29:29]
Awesome stuff. Man. Hey, this is a new segment, and we only have a minute to do it. But what’s Chris’s big mistake? What’s something that happened in your life that you you’ve already shared a few but if you had to point your finger, one say this was the biggest mistake. And here’s what I learned from learned from it.
Chris Earley [29:43]
Well, I literally wrote my memoir about this was being it’s called Scaling the wall. It came out about six months ago. Being an angry lawyer for many years, that’s my greatest mistake is like being angry, being upset, trying to push your buttons when to antagonize you and fight you. I. Mellowed. And with that, you know what, when I mellow that guy, who’s that guy, either? But, like, it’s weird, man. Like, you like, we talked about this, the pop and I was working, working, working, spinning my wheels, and I discovered, like, I had to work on my own mental health myself. And then once that happened, I got real dialed in. And so a lot of good things happen. That’s been the biggest thing is not being angry, enjoying life, having fun, doing stuff.
Steve Fretzin [30:22]
Life’s too short to be angry, right? I mean, it’s 100% you get one shot of this thing. Enjoy it. Enjoy your family. Enjoy your work. Make it. Make yourself happy. Figure out ways around absolutely fantastic, man. So we are going to be on stage at pin con in October, Venetian hotel, Scottsdale, Arizona. We’re going to be talking about podcasting. We’re going to be just rocking it up on stage and really giving everybody a full view of what podcasting is and how it works, and why it’s a valuable tool and not, damn it. Yeah, it’s gonna be great. I’m excited to be really good. It’s to be a fantastic battle. Everyone you know go to pimcon. We’d love to see it. Connect with you, and you’re gonna get a ton of value. So really excited for it. Yeah, and let’s shout out to law her podcast. Sonya Palmer, crushing it for women. And the great podcast in there. And of course, legal verse, If you want to check out, is international content that you’re going to want to go to legal legal verse, media.com, check them out, Chris. If people want to get in touch with you, maybe give a plug for your podcast. Let’s get those digits out.
Chris Earley [31:20]
Yeah, check out my podcast. It’s The Early Show podcast. Of course, got to drop in the name, because I know market the hell out of my last name early so check it out. It’s for lawyers who are growing practices, or want to grow their practice, as I said earlier. Make sure you get on my attorney newsletter each week. I’ll give you stuff that moves in on your practice, at least that’s my aspiration practice. Sip the week.com. Call myself an open book. I like geeking out. I love these types of conversations. If I settle 61795625016179562501,
Steve Fretzin [31:51]
reach out to me. I’d love to have a conversation with you. Yeah, all in the show notes, too. Everybody. Chris, thanks so much, man. I appreciate you. I’m excited to hang out with you and raise some glasses together in October at pimcon and just cross promoting, keep the wagon running forward, right? I mean, that’s what
Chris Earley [32:07]
it’s all about your day. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Steve Fretzin [32:11]
Yeah, my pleasure, man. Thank you, and thank you everybody for hanging out with Chris and I today for a little bit here talking about, you know, living with no regrets, and learning and improving and looking at business development and marketing and different channels. And different channels. I mean, there’s a lot to unpack in this episode, so utilize it. Utilize it. Take care. Everybody. Be safe, be well. We will talk again soon.
Narrator [32:34]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.