Dan Cotter: The Keys to Networking and Driving Customer Service

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Dan Cotter discuss:

  • Associations as a great way to network.
  • Increasing engagement in networking meetings.
  • Networking as gardening – it’s a long term process that takes attention.
  • Setting appropriate expectations from the beginning.

Key Takeaways:

  • You can’t just show up to networking events and hope that it works. You will make more of an impact if you can demonstrate leadership, speak, or otherwise engage with others.
  • Have an agenda and be upfront about that being the goal of any meeting.
  • Networking opens doors, but you have to go in and seal the deal.
  • Accountability can help you to continue to improve your book of business.


“We have two ears and one mouth. In listening to clients, a big goal is to make sure I understand what their needs are and to be practical.” —  Dan Cotter


Connect with Dan Cotter:   

Email: [email protected]

Text: 312-502-7480

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cotterdan/

Website: https://howardandhoward.com/


Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: [email protected]

Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.



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Dan Cotter, Narrator, Steve Fretzin


Dan Cotter  [00:00]

Securing clients, a lot of it is word of mouth. And again, it’s just the quality of the work. But it’s a lot of the things you’ve talked about its responsiveness. You know, one of the things that I think I get a lot of compliments about is how quickly I respond to people both at the beginning of the relationship and throughout.


Narrator  [00:20]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:42]

Hey, everybody, Steve Fretzin here with be that lawyer. Hopefully you’re having a wonderful day and you’re being productive and getting stuff you know, together, balance all of that fun stuff. As you guys know, this show is all about helping you be that lawyer, someone who’s confident organized a skilled Rainmaker, someone that has balance and also success in their career as a lawyer. And one of the guests that I have today is the man I’ve known Dan, for so long, and we’ve been networking together. We’ve been friends a long time, and I’m just so excited to have him. Dan Carter is with Howard and Howard. He is the former CBA president. He’s an author. He’s a networker. He’s very prolific, and I’d like to introduce Dan Conner. How’s it going, Dan?


Dan Cotter  [01:22]

On Well, thanks for having me, Steve. And we have we have known each other a long time, but networking I was trying to think of when we met it’s probably right around the time you started in the legal industry.


Steve Fretzin  [01:31]

Yeah. 1008 2009. Yeah. I think probably someone pushed me your way. Because I’m like, Well, if you’re in legal you need to talk with Dan.


Dan Cotter  [01:39]

There may have been a case I don’t remember how we met. I was trying to think of that. But it’s good to have known you and seen all your work and network with you. And now our Archie group. So it’s great.


Steve Fretzin  [01:48]

Yeah, Dan is talking about the Rainmaker roundtable that I’ve been running, and he’s been a part of it. We’ll get into that later. But listen, man, to my audience is solid and give a little background on yourself.


Dan Cotter  [01:58]

Sure. As you noted, I was the CBA President several years ago now, and had the great privilege of doing that. have loved the Chicago Bar Association. And it’s been part of my networking and mentoring kind of arena for many years, I’ve been an active member during the day by day, my practice areas, corporate, transactional and metoda, part attorneys PLLC, as you mentioned, and it’s been a great move, we moved there in August 2018. With a few other people, I’ve been active, like I said with the CBA. But also, an act of writers just said I love networking and and have always enjoyed it. And I’ve never seen it as kind of a barrier was one of the people I think one of the first 1000 people on LinkedIn or one of those things. I want to have their 10 year anniversary, they sent us notes. And one of my co workers at the time she was a bad lawyer, she said you should go check this out. This looks like a new, great place to be somewhere where you can potentially network and job transitions and things. So yeah, I mean, I’ve like I said, we’ve covered in transactional, I spent a lot of time in the insurance space, because I spent 16 years in house. So my 26 years so far, add insurance companies and Office of General Counsel. And one of the things I always tell people is insurance companies are like any other company, but they also have the regulatory overlay. So in addition to the insurance, regulatory stuff, I did all the other stuff that any other corporate counsel would do.


Steve Fretzin  [03:22]

Yeah, I think you got some recent recognition is that the case?


Dan Cotter  [03:25]

I did lawyers lend a hand to youth is a program that focuses on the inner city mentoring. And in the last five years, they started throwing tutoring program. And so I received my Hero Award for tutoring and for weightlifting program, a charity thing that I did start in 2002, it was lifting to lend a hand. And it was like, back in those days when this many Walker funds and these marathons are pretty signs up and raise this money. But it was kind of a similar idea where I would go out and ask my friends to give money by the pound or on a flat fee. And I had to go compete in a powerlifting competition. And I did that in 2002 areas for $2,600. I didn’t have quite the network then. And in the second the last time I did it in 2014. When I would just had become president of the Chicago bar. I raised $70,000 In that one lift and a total of about 300 to 350,000. It’s a little murky now in terms of record keeping of what was raised. But yeah, Jesse White was the main recipient he received an award from the organization as well for his decades of service and for his Jesse white tumblers, which I didn’t know until that ceremony he’s been doing since 1959. Yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [04:35]

that’s I’ve seen them a number of times. They’re amazing. But what everyone is curious about in hearing what you just said is how much can you deadlift or lift? Well


Dan Cotter  [04:48]

anymore not much. I’ve got a bad hip I’ve got a pinched nerve, even lifting heavy things. I loved lifting heavy thing. played football in college and some injuries from that but the As your prime and your prime, and my prime, the best lifts ever was a 622, squat 424 bench and a 571 deadlift, so close to 1700 pound total,


Steve Fretzin  [05:11]

I have a really heavy ladder in my garage, I tried lifting the other day and I think I strained my back. So I think we’ll leave the lifting to the pros.


Dan Cotter  [05:18]

I think so and my younger son now is lifting the guru and he has all kinds of stuff in the garage, you know, with pandemic, he’s built a home gym, and he goes out there and occasionally he’ll ask me to lift and do a few sets. And then he goes out for two hours.


Steve Fretzin  [05:35]

Yeah, my son just keeps me busy. You know, Hey, Dad, let’s go fishing. And I you know, the most I got to do is pull a bass in or a walleye in but no real heavy lifting there. So let’s talk a little bit about not lawyering. But the other part of being a lawyer, which is business development and networking. How do you take care of clients? I mean, you’re sort of the total package. So I think we can really go anywhere with this conversation. But let’s start at the beginning, around kind of the birth to the death of, you know, just the lifecycle, if you will, let’s start off with networking. What are some of the things that you have done to grow your law practice? And I know, networking is one of them? What are some of the things that you’ve been doing around networking that have been successful for you?


Dan Cotter  [06:13]

Big part of it is being part of associations, not necessarily the struggle bar, because I think, you know, whatever your profession is, if you’re just hanging out with your own profession, the referrals aren’t that great. But I’m very involved, for example, in a lot of insurance, regulatory organizations, and I think that’s been a great tool, you know, I tend to speak to those write in their journals, circulated amongst people. And so, you know, one of the things that people know is that I’m in Illinois, I do other states as well. But I’m working on a deal right now that I actually represented the another party in the transaction. And then New York law firm came to me recently, to help them, they’re part of a capital investment Venture Capital Group that’s going to convert their holdings into common stock and ownership. And so I’m working on that. And it’s really, you know, it’s really that kind of thing, Steve is, is speaking and circulate and going to conferences, and, and being out there and trying to be relevant.


Steve Fretzin  [07:12]

But let me stop you. Because you’re not just showing up, you’re not just showing up and saying, Hey, I’m a part of this group, I’m a part of this thing. You’re writing, you’re speaking, you’re leading, right? You’re getting engaged in what you’re doing. That’s making the difference between someone who’s very successful at networking and someone who’s maybe less than successful in networking, because meeting people is a part of it. But you know, if you can step up and demonstrate, again, leadership, or that you can get up in front of group and speak, and I always try to make that a part of anything I’m going to do, I’d rather lead or I’d rather engage than just kind of show up and be a part of it. Is that a big kind of angle there?


Dan Cotter  [07:48]

I absolutely agree, you do have to get active just just showing up. You know, there are people I’ve known that go to conferences, or in just kind of our, you know, wallflowers or they might go to the receptions and stuff and hand out, you know, 1000 business cards. But as you and I thought about throughout the years, we’ve known each other, you know, just hanging out your business card, that doesn’t mean anything, right? Because, okay, they got your business card, they don’t know anything about you. And like you said, they haven’t seen you really lead. And so I’ve Traditionally, when I’ve been in groups, like you said, try to find some role where I’m have a lot of touch points. And so one of the groups is the Association of Insurance compliance professionals. I’ve spoken for years, I’ve been on their bylaws and Governance Committee. And now I’m outside general counsel, and it’s pro bono gig. But again, it gives me exposure to 3000 members on a regular basis, dealing with their legal issues for the organization. And just being able to demonstrate kind of the expertise and knowledge right, in the end, it gets to know you. And I think it’s, I think that’s part of the thing that when I tell people about networking, and I kind of talked to law students, or other young people that are trying to figure out how to get into a career is that a big part of networking is that kind of leadership and interactions. And it’s really important to establish a rapport outside of right, because every every lawyer, it’s got the same pitch, you know, their elevator pitch. And as we practice in the roundtable, and other arenas, pro visors, everybody has that kind of pitch, right? But they all sound the same, but it’s really establishing rapport, hey, do I like this person? Is somebody that I’d actually want to be in the trenches with working on a project or litigation or whatever the matter is?


Steve Fretzin  [09:28]

Yeah. The other thing I would just add to what you’re saying, and I’m sure you do this, and I do this too, is, anytime I’m interested in joining a group or being a part of something, I always talk to the people in charge and let them know my intentions and say, and try to find like, where could I fit in? Like, I’m a presenter, what opportunities would there be for me to present on and what kind of topics are you looking for? How can I add value, not just wins the meeting, or what do I you know, when are you guys holding meetings? I try to you know, get some information up front, so that I’m not You know, and if you don’t do that, that’s okay. You can even if you’re in a group now you can still go back to that leader or someone that’s been there a while and ask those kinds of questions of what you can do to be more involved engaged in what you’re doing.


Dan Cotter  [10:12]

I think it’s important, I think more than ever, especially in the COVID times with the new platforms. If you’re not speaking, if you’re at a at a conference or a committee meeting, the only people that are showing on the screen and that are actually actively engaged in these most of these meetings, is the presenter says she has just mentioned and the moderator and that’s it. So if you’re not doing that, and leading at the at the CBA, and other groups, when I give presentations, or I attend meetings, you don’t even see who else is in the room. Right? You can go look at a list, but there’s not even a video. So I think more than ever, and we’re going to have some hybrid of this going forward. So I think it’s very important that again, like you said, you find out what role you can take to lead and actually participate. Because that’s going to distinguish you from the hundreds of people that might be attending, and just watching.


Steve Fretzin  [10:59]

Yeah, and let’s talk a little bit about what happens after the event you met someone that you think is really terrific, maybe another lawyer, you think there might be some opportunities to get to know each other, but also maybe some business that can be passed or things like that, how do you sort of run those meetings and try to get some type of, you know, next steps out of it, or some kind of traction.


Dan Cotter  [11:19]

But one of the things that you’ve taught me well, is that you should have an agenda going in, and being very upfront about that being the kind of goal of the meeting, right? Hey, let’s let’s chat, let’s get to know each other. But also, let’s figure out how we can step away from this and have one or two introductions or warm introductions and handoffs that can get that can maybe be translated into business. And that’s important, because a lot of times, you know, I’ve been at many coffees where you just sit for 3045 minutes, you kind of chew the fat, and then you leave, and there’s no next steps. There’s no real production out of it. And so, it’s not a very productive meeting. It’s great to visit with people and you know, learn about, you know, their kids and their family, and you know, whatever’s going on. But at the end of the day, all of us need to earn some livings. So we can, you know, have our houses and pay our mortgage and get our kids through college, all the other stuff.


Steve Fretzin  [12:11]

And one of the easiest ways to get the relationship off on the right foot to your to what you just shared is helping someone else giving to someone else. And this is one of the greatest challenges that lawyers have that I hear on a regular basis is love to meet with people, but what do I have to give them? What do I have to offer? And I think it might be fun, Dan, for us to come up with a list together right now on the spot of, I don’t know, 567 things that are valuable to be able to provide at the end of a networking meeting that someone could walk away and say, you know, hey, now I’ve got this list of five to seven things, I can always come up with one or two for somebody, because it isn’t just about oh, as it turns out, Dan, I have a new potential client for you. I mean, that might happen. But more realistically, it’s not. You know, I don’t just happen to have someone that has some kind of, you know, legal work that they need right now. So what would you say are like top two or three things that you have done for someone in the past that you felt really gave you some good traction, some good karma?


Dan Cotter  [13:06]

I mean, one is, again, that warm introduction, that email that says, hey, you know, this is Steve. Right? This is what he does, I think that you’ve been have a very valuable conversation with him. And again, there’s no promises, or like I said, what I’ve always said is, you know, this is my third time in private practice, and none of my clients that I had in the second time, or any of my friends have boxes of documents, like you said, that are just waiting, right? Like, oh, yeah, I was waiting for you to go in private practice, or give me a call, I’ve got this big case that I need you to handle right away. And I’ve been waiting for you to give me that call. So it’s more than it’s, it’s, you know, finding out what that person needs that you’ve met with. And then again, saying that, you know, I know somebody that can help you here. And it might not be it might not be a lawyer or client referral, it might be that someone says, you know, look, I’ve got this real estate deal, and I need an appraiser. And I just know, don’t know where to go. And then again, it’s, Hey, meet Henry, this guy knows what he’s doing. He’s in this in this arena. And it’s that helpful thing. And what I always tell people is like, I can open doors, but you have to then get in the door, and then sit down and then seal whatever deal it is. Right. But I think that’s the most valuable thing he could to people. And also sometimes, like we do when we’re in a hot seat, I think for the other things, you can give us kind of some reaction. So if somebody has an idea, they’re thinking about doing something, hey, I want to transfer to in house from private practice, right? And I don’t know even know anything about that. So okay, tell me a little bit more about that, what exactly kind of role you’re looking for. And then kind of give them some feedback and some next steps that says, Okay, this is this is the first step you need to do right? You need to find out about the companies or the industries that are narrowed down.


Steve Fretzin  [14:53]

Right, and in case you’re at home keeping score. Let me just recap where we are right now with this conversation. So number one is if You have business that someone else can do, and you have the ability to feed it, and you’ve kind of proven them out that they’re real. I mean, if you’re meeting someone for the first time, and you’ve got a million dollar piece of business, I don’t know that I’d give it up right away, right, I think you might want to get to know someone a little better. Because you’re going to be handing off someone, your name is on the line. So always qualify, qualify. But if you have never worked with someone, and you have business and you think they might be a good fit, that personal injury attorney, real estate, whatever it might be, that’s one number two, that you mentioned, is just connecting people with other connectors, people that have those big networks that can move them in the right direction. I just did this with a friend of mine who’s in the benefits space, I got him in front of another friend of mine who’s in the life insurance space. And he just told me, it was like one of the best conversations he’s ever had. So that’s number two. Number three is sharing a personal connection. So same story, I was telling the gentleman I just getting a condo, setting my brother up in a condo, I need a GC or painter, he gave me his guy who said is great. So now I’ve got a personal connection, that’s gonna help me solve a personal problem a personal need. That’s number three. And then the last one that you shared was a personal idea or feedback on something. So I’m telling you about a direction I want to go. And then you’re offering me advice, feedback help. And that also counts as far as like how you can you help move someone in the right direction. So right there, just from this conversation so far, we’re already at four things you may be able to provide someone else at the end of a networking one on one, for example. Okay, anything, if we only get one or two more on the table? What do you think anything else pop in your head,


Dan Cotter  [16:32]

one of the things I always offer to people is I get to know them is kind of a call a friend, like you know, if you have things or needs or, or need introductions, you know, with a lot of law students always look for jobs and things. And I tell them, I know a lot of lawyers in the city and a lot of law firms. So as you’re trying to, you know, get in front of, you know, XYZ firm, send me that and, you know, 50% chance that I know somebody, and again, can make that kind of, you know, hey, I know, I know, Joe, he’s a good guy, I know, Sally, she’s a great law student, she was a student of mine, or you know, are and, again, opening the door. And my view, that’s all we can do, right? Like, if like you said, you’re not going to give them a warm handoff, you know, the million dollar case for the month our thing, prior to have somebody or networks that you already would trust with that, right, if that came along. And so, but but those are,


Steve Fretzin  [17:25]

you know, might be surprising to understand or know that people are pretty flexible about where they’re willing to send conflict, work rate pressure work, there’s a lack of reciprocation that’s going on, and some people just don’t understand the give and take that needs to happen in a relationship. And I think that if it’s a year or two, and you’ve been feeding someone work and feeding them something and they’re not responding and reciprocating, it can be frustrating. And if you catch someone at the right time, when they’re in that place where you know, they’re just not getting any real value is a two way street, it might be easy to pull them back, you know, pull them over to your side and say, Look, I’m different, and I’m looking to network with you, and I’m looking to add value for you as much as your you are for me, and how do we do that together? You know, I met with a local recruiter yesterday, Dan, and we had this great launch. And all we kept talking about is who we can get in front of each other? How can she get me these recruits that, you know, maybe are going to be placed or maybe they can’t be placed because their book isn’t big enough, and they need to build their book in order to get the job of their dreams. So she can send them to me. And then I’ve got all these law firms and lawyers that, you know, maybe are unhappy with their culture, or they’ve got a tyrant, you know, you know, managing partner, whatever the case might be, or just the way the firm is laid out just isn’t the best way for them to perform. And so we just had this amazing conversation, and it’s all to your point about the next steps, you know, how do we continue to move things forward and execute for each other? And failure to do that? It’s really, you know, networking, suicide, I think there’s a lot of people that promise a lot, right? And then they just don’t know how to really pull the trigger, or they don’t take the time to do it. Right. Working with people like that. I’m changing the subject now. But what do we do with people that that just don’t get it?


Dan Cotter  [19:04]

You know, at some point, you have to turn the switch off. And, you know, some some various examples. One time when I was still in house, I got a call from somebody that had been referred, they wouldn’t tell me who referred me, but they said, You know, I want to I need introductions, and I need help at this in house job. And I’m like, Okay, I don’t even know you, I need to at least have a coffee with you. And he responded, you know, that’s great. And all this but you know, I need to submit my application tomorrow. And I just sent it back. I said, you know, this is not how I would say that one of the great articles I saw years ago and the trib are sometimes talked about networking is like gardening, you have to plant the seeds and then you have to, you know, water it and then you have to take out the weeds and do all that stuff for a thriving garden. And that’s really how I view networking. You know, I’ll sprinkle a little water on the, on the stove, to be People, but after a while, I just give them the message back that, you know, look, I’m at it, you know, it’s obvious that you’re just looking for a one way thing, right? And and that’s not how any of this works, right? You have to establish a relationship and trust and kind of do something on your own. You know, again, I’m back and open the door, but I can’t submit the application for you. I can’t do your interview, I can’t do get the get the client that you want. That’s not on me that’s on you. Yeah. And if you’re not interested, I don’t have time right to, to, you know, constantly be trying to harvest your future.


Steve Fretzin  [20:36]

Yeah, I’m like, I’m like a two or three strike rule guy, like all somebody I’m networking with, and they don’t pull the trigger the way that they say they’re going to end. All right, okay, I get it, you know, maybe I can coach them up a little bit, or maybe not. And then, like, give them kind of a second chance. And then they have some excuse. And I’m like, You know what, I’m out. Like, life’s too short. And my time is to, you know, is too busy to you know, have to babysit someone who talks the talk but can’t walk the walk. And at the end of the day, you know, what I kind of teach my clients is you can’t have 50 100 Strategic Partners meet people that are referring you work on a regular basis that you’re also going to reciprocate, and try to help them that the gardens to beg right and to unrightfully to your analogy. So I think, six to 10, like if you had six to 10 people that referred you to to five matters a year, different sizes, shapes, forms, that’s a decent amount of business from that particular bucket of networking to drive business. So I think if you can do better than that, great, but I think for most people, that’s a manageable number to sort of manage versus a garden that just goes on forever with 1000 Different plants and weeds. I agree. Yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about the next cycle. So you’re you’re networking, you get referrals, you get some new business in the door, something that I think you’ve done really well with is maintaining relationships, building relationships with clients, and building that loyalty, they just don’t want to leave you because they know, you know that you’re responsive, they know there’s all these things. So expand on that a little bit, what are you doing to secure clients, and then more importantly, to keep them happy,


Dan Cotter  [22:09]

you know, securing clients, a lot of it is it’s word of mouth. And again, it’s just the quality of the work. But it’s a lot of the things you’ve talked about its responsiveness, you know, one of the things that I think I get a lot of compliments about is how quickly I respond to people both at the beginning of the relationship and throughout. And it’s at times, I’ve had clients at various places I’ve been that have not been as enamored with other colleagues with timeliness or attention. And when I call them, you know, I say, Look, I’m listening, I know that this is not how most professional services firms work, but I’m not, you know, I’m not here to defend, you know, and I’m going to make it right. And that that’s happened throughout my career. And I make sure that those folks know that they can reach out to me and like you said, I also try to be almost like a concierge service where, you know, like you said, if someone’s coming in for a general contract, or other things, that it’s not just about the practice of law, it’s about being able to help them and introduce them to whatever they need to solve their problems, so they can do their job. And people appreciate that, I think. And it’s, you know, it’s the other thing that I’m a big proponent of is that we have, you know, two ears and one mouth. And so listening to them is, to me, a big goal is to make sure I understand what their needs are. And to be practical. So the thing is, you know, I, when I was in house, I referred to some of the things I got from outside counsel as octoplus opinions, because they’re on the one hand, on the other hand, on the other hand, it’s like, Okay, what’s Can you give me some definitive guidance, so that, you know, we as a business can move forward, and that, you know, go through a 40 page treatise, makes no conclusions, because it’s so caveats. I mean, sometimes you have to do that. There are some situations, but I always try to be practical, and understand the business motivations behind the clients, so that they can solve and get back to work and making money, which is their goal.


Steve Fretzin  [24:07]

Yeah. And I also, you know, talk to lawyers quite often about expectations and how they’re setting expectations, because I think surprises are great for birthdays, but they’re not great for clients getting bills that they’re not expecting or, or having surprises happen. And I know in litigation, that’s just going to happen, but at least you could set them up that, you know, understanding litigation, that things are going to happen. And here’s what could potentially, you know, come our way we need to be prepared for that. Or, you know, and then also expectations about how responsive you’re going to be I mean, if I tell someone, I’m gonna get back to them, then I’m gonna pick up every call that they when they call me, I mean, that’s gonna mess things up. Because I’m not, you know, middle of a podcast with you. I can’t pick up my phone right now. And it finally isn’t even on. So why would I set that expectation? I mean, some people do a great job of you know, trying to return all, you know, calls or emails by the end of the day, or I always get back to people within 24 hours. But that kind of stuff. setting those expectations is really important to do so. Some of that I’m sure you do,


Dan Cotter  [25:01]

I did do some of that. And I tried to set those expectations. But also, it’s, you know, some of my clients, I have one client that a lot of times on New Year’s Eve or Fridays, they have things that they just, you know, come up because they are very active and engaged. But for the most part, you try to set those expectations, I do have one friend who’s a lawyer whose role is he won’t pick up the phone, and he won’t respond for the first 24 hours. I think that can be a little bit too much at times, depending on the client, or what they need. But yeah, you have to set those expectations because we’re not, we’re all humans. And you know, this is a holiday weekend, for example. So you have to be able to have clients that understand that you may not be in a place where you can take a phone call on Saturday or Sunday on a long weekend or one of those I’ve never done that I know people are doing more and more is the unplug type of vacations where they take their work email and all this stuff off their phone. And they you know, go to go scuba diving or they go to the you know, the Himalayas or something where you can’t get reception. So I’ve never done that. But I think I could probably do a better job of that.


Steve Fretzin  [26:05]

Yeah, funny story. I was in Mexico with my wife and some friends and I left my phone back, you know, in Chicago, because I wanted to unplug. And I remember walking back with with my breakfast, you know, you sit down to the after a buffet if there’s the resorts or whatever. And my friend and his wife and my wife are all on their phones looking down and I’m like, Hey, are we going to have a conversation over breakfast? Or am I going to be sitting by myself twiddling my thumbs. But I get the you know, leaving it behind. And again, if you have really good support, you know, other lawyers and admin that can cover for you. That’s certainly the way to go. Dan, I’d like to transition I think most people know that. I’m a coach and a trainer on business development for lawyers. And I think that the piece that people may not know about or know enough about is that I run some programs, Business Development roundtables, and then what’s your in the rainmakers roundtables? The Business Development roundtable is for lawyers that do under a million in originations and the rainmakers roundtable is for people obviously higher. And I’ve got people ranging from a million to up to 8 million. And I’d like you to just take a moment if you would, and don’t take too long on it, but just explain everybody that kind of what is this? And why is it something that you decided to get involved in?


Dan Cotter  [27:16]

Sure. It’s a great program. And what it is, is there’s a group of about five or six or seven of us that are attorneys, a different practice areas, a law firms, all have different practices, but the same underlying kind of beats and wants, in terms of business development, as Steve said, and we talk about and hold each other accountable. We just started in an accountability group. So two or three of us get together and kind of keep on track, you’ve said that this is where you want to originate. These are the new clients you want to obtain. What are you doing about it each month, right, so in each week, so that it doesn’t get away. And Steve has guests come in and speak about marketing, they speak about time management, they speak about all kinds of topics that are of relevance to us, and there’s some big hitters, we’re gonna have one speaker coming in soon, that’s good. That’s got a $20 million book of business. And we just learned from them. And that would be each of us takes turns being on the hot seat and have a whatever issue it is that we want to convey and own. And then we get feedback, we get questions. And it’s a great opportunity to be held accountable. And that’s really for me, it’s something that in my six years back and private practice, that I’ve really not had. And I love that structure, because it is every month, I got to be prepared to tell the group what I’ve been working on. I’ve improved my pitch. I’ve improved my LinkedIn, LinkedIn presence, whatever it is, and it keeps me accountable with a group that’s very successful in various areas of law. It’s a great program. And Steve has been referred to recently as the lawyer whisperer. And I thought of that name as well. I was thinking one time when I saw something that he had to hit published head. So the name is gonna probably stick is that Steve is the lawyer whisper.


Steve Fretzin  [29:02]

Wow. You know, whisper, shout, scream, whatever I have to do to get lawyers to get off their rears and build the book of business and get that control back. Well, listen, man, I appreciate you. I appreciate you being in my program and how you participate. And just your attitude about building a book Growing a book, maintaining relationships, building relationships, I mean, you’re the total package. And so if people want to reach out to you to either get to know you network to read your book, how what’s the best way for them to get in touch?


Dan Cotter  [29:30]

Email me at Ddac at h2 law.com. Or they can shoot me a text to three one to 5027480 responsive, I’ll get back to you within 24 hours or so.


Steve Fretzin  [29:40]

Here we go. There’s the setting expectations. I love it. So we’re practicing what we preach. Well, listen, I appreciate you and thanks for being on the show. Really terrific. Thanks for having me, Steve. Absolutely. And listen, everybody if you enjoyed the show, and then others that you’ve listened to please like comment, share, get other lawyers on the show. Let’s get this thing built out. I think it’s only going to help them profession in the industry to become stronger. So you know people have a better chance of being that lawyer someone who’s confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. Take care everybody be safe be well.


Narrator  [30:14]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com For additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notice