Daniel Steinberg: Making Legal Easier for All Parties

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Daniel Steinberg discuss:

  • How Daniel’s professional journey lead him to creating lawbrokr.
  • Differentiating yourself enough to find your clients.
  • Branding and specialization.
  • Creating a strong experience in legal.

Key Takeaways:

  • It is okay to fail. If you don’t try, you won’t have the opportunity to succeed or fail.
  • Your firm needs to live everywhere consumers are online.
  • There are so many opportunities to be a creator in today’s day and age. That allows you, as the lawyer, to create bite-sized content that can connect with consumers.
  • Your interactions with your customer need to be more experiential than transactional.

“If you want to align with your customers, you need to really create and cultivate and explain things to them, and go above and beyond the scope, then what you did last year and the year before, and always be that 1% better every time you talk to that next individual, because it’s all around the customer experience, or they’re not coming back in every industry, not just legal.” —  Daniel Steinberg

Connect with Daniel Steinberg:  

Website: https://www.lawbrokr.com/

Email: [email protected]

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dsteinberg9/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/dslbkr

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawbrokr

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawbrokr/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Legalese Marketing: https://legaleasemarketing.com/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: [email protected]

Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.



Narrator, Daniel Steinberg, Steve Fretzin


Daniel Steinberg  [00:00]

If you want to align with your customers, you need to really create and cultivate and explain things to them and go above and beyond the scope than what you did last year and the year before. And always be that 1% better every time you talk to that next individual, because it’s all around the customer experience, or they’re not coming back.


Narrator  [00:24]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, we’ll take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:47]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I hope you are having a lovely day. I am Steve Fretzin. As you know, I’m the host, and this show is all about helping you to be that lawyer, someone who’s competent, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. And, you know, I just try to bring on interesting different fun guests that I know are going to captivate your attention and teach us something new. You know, if you get one or two good takeaways from each show that’s going to help you throughout the course of the year, just hit 25,000 Plus downloads, we’ve got over 150 shows we’ve done so lots of things you can go back to. And if you like the content, you like the way I run the show, don’t be afraid to give me a couple stars, maybe more than four. Don’t be afraid to like it or put a thumbs up. That’s all good. So listen, I also want to just take a moment to thank our two sponsors legalese marketing, and money penny more about them later. But I appreciate their sponsorship and partnership. So today, I’ve got a great guest. It’s Dan Steinberg. He’s the founder of law broker. And we’re going to start off Dan with a real quick quote. And this is a quote you sent me that’s not my quote. And it’s not your quote, but it’s a quote by Jeff Bezos in its, I knew that if I failed, I wouldn’t regret that. But I knew the one thing I might regret is not trying. And I absolutely love that quote, because I’ve got a teenager, and it’s all about trying, and I don’t care if you win first place, or you get last place, which by the way, that’s happened. That’s fine. But he tries as long as it’s the efforts put out there. So So Dan, what does that all mean to you? What do you think about what that quote? That was your quote you shared with



me? Yeah, thank you, Steven, just before I dive into that, thank you so much for having me on the podcast today, super excited to have a conversation with you and share some insights with some of the lawyers and listeners that you have jumping on. But yeah, I love I love that we start with the quote that, that every person that you bring on shares. For me, as a young entrepreneur, I think what people are so afraid of is failure. And the biggest regret that people have is not trying something when they have the time to do it. And I think that you have to jump into something when the time is right for you. And that’s what’s so valuable about this quote is, you’re always going to look back on something and say, Wow, I wish I would have tried that, and didn’t have a fear of failing. And I think what people need to start to think about from a psychological perspective is it is okay to fail. Because if you don’t try, then you can’t even have the opportunity to succeed and or fail. So I’m a big believer and learn by doing and falling on your face to succeed. I’ve done that throughout my career, whether that was me being an entrepreneur, or me working in a larger corporation, I’m a big believer in just learning and educating myself by trying. So that’s sort of why this quote resonates with me and why it’s such a, it’s such an amazing quote, by Bezos.


Steve Fretzin  [03:36]

And I just to add to that a little color, you know, the, the idea that you can fail forward, and that is just just failing, learning from the mistake and getting better and getting better and getting better. And, you know, being a business development coach, you know, I encourage my clients to try something they’ve never tried to fail hard, or to fail or whatever. And just take it as a learning opportunity. Look, you said this, the response was that it didn’t go the way you thought, Alright, then let’s, let’s change it up. And let’s figure out how to make it better the next time. And if you keep doing that with incremental change, incremental improvement, things work out. But yeah, you don’t want to regret you know, people, you know, like, as we were talking about before, like, you know, people have lived through cancer people have lived through reply, lived through a plane crash, people have lived through, you know, just listen to a guy who got attacked by a grizzly bear. You know, we all we all have one shot at this thing, so why not take advantage and live life? Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. Yeah. So you, your background is fascinating. So go because you’ve been in the legal space for a long time. Take Take us through where you’ve been and what brought you to create law broker and how that and what is law brokering, but go through and give us that Reader’s Digest on your background there if you would, Dan. Yeah, for



sure. And we’ll talk about log broker in a bit. I don’t want to take away from our two sponsors on today’s shows, but ya know, I’ve been in the professional services business for quite some time. So So my background and career started in professional services accounting, that’s always what I thought would be a great call it quote unquote, MBA or learning journey to be able to become an entrepreneur, I’ve wanted to be an entrepreneur for as long as I can remember. So each stage of my career was to get me to become a really strong operator and be very efficient in the way that I operate a specific business, as opposed to reinvent the wheel and introduce something that is technically technologically profound. So when I started off my career in accounting, I worked in small practice. And that was really to understand the nuances between how CEOs and executives operate their businesses, whether that be manufacturing firms or technical technologies. And what I came to realize, and this, this comes to making really hard decisions early. But what I came to realize was I was only doing that as a scope of work to become an entrepreneur, but it wasn’t something that I enjoyed. And it goes back to, you know, regretting what you wouldn’t try. And I never wanted to be an accountant, I didn’t want to do auditing and commit to doing that for three plus years. Because it wasn’t who I was, I wasn’t passionate about it, I was only doing it to do it. And I took a risk and I quit a big four accounting firm, before I started, should be able to get me to where I am today. And I always determine that if I did become an entrepreneur, it’s great that I have that accounting background. But I will hire a CPA if I need to at the end of the day. So I ended up quitting. And I did a lot of soul searching and research. And I spoke to a lot of executives on what is it like to be an entrepreneur? What does that baseline metric that sort of teaches you what to do? And it brought me into sales. And that was my first interacting point into the technology world. So I went into legal there, I went into technology, excuse me, advocacy, marketing, enterprise software, actually. So I’m sure we’ll dive into that a little bit today. But advocacy marketing five years ago, or three and a half, four years ago was very new. And what we were selling was, we were selling a vision, and we were educating the market on what is advocacy marketing? Why is it so important to cultivate communities drive reviews, drive demand to your firm, by building a brand presence, and did that for two plus years. And that was sort of to get my baseline of how to sell myself how to sell my business and how to learn and speak to different types of people and work throughout an organization. Because the best thing you can do when you become an entrepreneur is understand how to interact with different types of people and jump on podcasts like this and network accordingly. And that took me to the next phase in my career, which was I got the opportunity to run partnerships at the largest legal tech company in North America. And that being clear, which I’m sure a lot of your listeners are familiar with, I know you are. And I got the opportunity that not many people do. But I got the opportunity to really learn and educate one, a whole new industry and understand what technology and legal was really like and how people adopt different technologies within their law firms. But I got to work with such a magnitude of different types of individuals, even within Clio. So I actually understood operationally how to work with different people within a large corporations, whether that be sales, marketing operations and and executives at the firm. But then I also got to work with external stakeholders like services, partners, accountants and bookkeepers, law consultants, IT and technology consultants that ultimately help educate law firms like yourself and not parlayed into how do we leverage different types of technology, then close AppStore and adopt those into different practices and different practice areas to make law firms more efficient? And what really cultivated me building law broker was my experience with the app ecosystem at Clio, which was understanding the nuances of different technologies and how firms adopted it. And where there was missing pieces. So I got to work with, you know, large enterprises like Google zoom Microsoft into it. And the biggest project that came out of why I wanted to start law broker was the project with Google, which was, how do we digitize law firm storefronts? And how do we get people on Google so we can project their brand, so that they can ultimately be found. And that’s what sort of helped me build and gave me the industry knowledge to understand why I wanted to start law broker which I know you asked what it was, but it’s in a nutshell is a spin on a traditional legal marketplace, where we’re going to be legals first customer experience platform powered by lawyers and really focused on building and mimicking everyday experiences that consumers have, and bridging that gap within legal to really simplify the complexities of how to interact with a lawyer, but also how to just simplify the experience for finding that legal support. And it all came through that project around Google My Business and how do we get lawyers to actually digitize their presence, pre pandemic, all the way through to in pandemic and out of it?


Steve Fretzin  [09:58]

Yeah, in all the legal tech start ops, you know, they start with a problem, right? There’s a problem. There’s something that isn’t working, there’s something that should exist and it doesn’t. And what’s How do you take something like? Well, first of all, what are the problems that lawyers have that law broker solves? And then what? Like, how did you come through? Like, here are the problems? And then here’s what I created?



Yeah, it’s a great question. So the problem that ultimately exists is legal is saturated. And I don’t think anyone that’s listening to this podcast is going to disagree with that. There’s over a million solo and small practitioners in the US alone. And it’s hard to stand out, let alone it’s hard to outspend mid sized law practices to ultimately gather new business. And a lot of the ways that solo and small practices survived is based off referrals and creating customer centricity and a strong customer experience, because that’s their biggest differentiator point. But in order to get to that differentiator point, you need to find the client. And what I found was the missing gap was how do you differentiate yourself enough to be able to find those clients? Because at the end of the day, if you’re on page 10, of Google, no one’s sifting through to find you there. And no one psychological metric is lawyer, Chicago, solo practitioner. That’s not what people think about. And I found, and that’s what started my thought process around. How do we make legal easier on both sides? How do we help support soil in small practices to really be in control their own demand? But how do we simplify the process on the consumer side to ultimately meet both parties meet consumer expectations where lawyers perceptions exist, and once you start with one problem, things start to snowball effect, and you start to find multiple problems. And you start to figure out, what are the little nuances where you can change the way that people are doing things today, and intertwine them to become a better operation or a more simplified process to ultimately help consumers and lawyers meet in the middle there. And that was the original problem that I started with. And it snowballed into the impact of, well, there’s actually a larger consumer problem, which is, how do consumers even find lawyers? It’s always nice to look at the legal problem, which is lawyers are struggling to find business. But have we thought about the consumer problem, which is, how do I find a lawyer for my very nuanced legal need, because I’m super uneducated, because it’s not something that I do every single day. And when you think about legal, it’s usually at the point in time where you need a lawyer. So there wasn’t this process where people can attach their brands to something similar to the likes of Uber, Shopify Ecommerce stores, DoorDash. These are all brands that on the back end are powered by corporations. And that’s ultimately what we want it to cultivate is how do we create this brand that people can really attach themselves to, because at the end of the day, every law lawyer, and every law firm has their own brand. But it’s very hard for the consumer to remember that one law firms brand, when they’re in a stressful complex situation, they usually just think about the legal industry as a whole.


Steve Fretzin  [13:11]

Right? So let’s talk about branding and diversification or not diversification and maybe specialization. So like, what what have you identified that lawyers are missing, as a relates to how they’re niching? Down? Or how they’re considering to make themselves stand out in a crowd of a roomful of attorneys in Canada, US whatever?



Yeah, it’s a really loaded question, because I think it stems from what you just mentioned, which is, I’m a big proponent of diversification. And we’re going to move off the topic of law broker, lawyers should not just live on law broker or other platforms that do something similar, you actually need to live everywhere that consumers are. And I think that’s part of the education function that we’re trying to build within the legal market. So there are actually two education pieces here. We one need to educate consumers on the legal market as a whole. But on the lawyer side as well. It’s it’s very nuanced when it comes to legal marketing and building out your brand presence. And there’s a big education factor around how do you diversify across a magnitude of different platforms, so that you have brand consistency and people do remember you because we have to remember that consumers come from a magnitude of different areas, they might come from Google, they might come from a billboard on the street, maybe they do come from law broker, maybe they come from one of our competitors. They come from everywhere, and that’s why it’s important to be everywhere that consumers are and that’s why competition is good in every single industry. But what I think is so important is the the adoption of different technologies that exist rolling into 2022. And I’ve seen some amazing things with from the legal market and specific lawyers in general, on the Creator industry, whether that be through Instagram reels or tick tock or little bites five areas where you could create videos and be a creator. There’s so many opportunities to be a creator, in this day and age, and I’m seeing it. And what’s so interesting is, in the past, consumers didn’t resonate with legal because it’s daunting, it’s complex, it’s scary. It’s not something that you ever think you need to think about until you need to think about it. But now that we have bite sized video content and creators that are lawyers themselves, or legal technologies that are simplifying, what legal really is, it’s becoming so much easier for consumers to resonate. I mean, one of my favorite followers on or follows excuse me on Tik Tok is Erica, the lawyer. And she provides all this amazing bite sized content. But what she did is she created this community around, she knows that consumers like deals. And what she did is she took the complexities out of Terms of Service and privacy policies on all these major brands, and resonated with consumers because she read those agreements, and told the consumer in bite size content, how to get deals out of all these brands. And it’s taking little nuances like that, and creating these bite sized content for consumers to understand and educate themselves and resonate with the legal industry. And I think that that’s so important, let alone just creating this brand consistency off the magnitude of different platforms.


Steve Fretzin  [16:20]

So you have some specific thing that you’re solving for the consumer or in legal. Okay. And then what are the what are the different channels that you would get that brand out like LinkedIn? Is it? Is it is it getting across all social media is how many different? I mean, what do you recommend? Like? What’s your take on on? How much is too much? Or is it more about focusing on one or focusing on many? What are your thoughts there?



Yeah, I’m a big, I’m a big fan on focusing in and zeroing in on one thing, but I think social, organic, social as a whole is one focus. So I wouldn’t necessarily promote just focus on one platform, I think it all is around brand consistency. And that’s why you see all these marketing agencies go across magnitude of different brands, whether that be Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, these are all one sector of organic social. And we have to remember just so that a call it out, not everything is about paid posts, right, or paid advertisement, it’s not all about spending x amount of dollars on Google, Facebook, Instagram, etc. You can do these things organically and build your brand that way. But the only way to build your organic brand is to do it across a multitude of different platforms. Because we have to remember that omni channel approach, which is, you’re here at one point, and then you’re there at another point. And that could be Daniel Steinberg sitting on Instagram at 10pm. And then tick tock at 11pm. And that reminder that Steve, be that lawyer is on all of my platforms consistently popping up is how you cultivate that community around your specific brand, and brand in general. And that’s the importance of branding. So you have to dip your toes into one way or another. But I do think if you could create this sort of approach where you are in a magnitude of different areas, it’s super important, because otherwise, there’s too much noise. And the industry forgets,


Steve Fretzin  [18:18]

and is that sort of how lawyers need to act and behave differently in 2022, they need to, you know, really focus on developing content around their focus, and then diversifying it on different platforms, and just really getting getting their name and their brand and their word and their content out there. Is that part of what sort of the modern lawyer is if we want to talk about what that might mean?



Yeah. So I do think that’s what’s really important in 2022. And I was reading an article, Happy New Year, by the way, but I was reading an article going into the new year, which was all around, what are the consistencies and trends leading into 2022. And it was all around this, this creator model, right? This free model of anyone can be a creator, because we have all these different technologies that are fingerprints. And it’s it’s not just in the legal industry, it’s everywhere. But if lawyers want to stand out and be different, they need this bite sized content that consumers can understand. Because I’m not a lawyer, I don’t necessarily understand the nuances to what it means to be a lawyer or what the complexities are within specific legal agreements. And by creating these bite sized chunks, and being an educator is what the market is asking for. And that’s why this creator model is so so fruitful for a lot of different businesses, including lawyers. So focusing in so let’s go back to this focusing in versus this broader strategy. Like I said, I’m a big proponent of being focused and staying focused. Obviously, you want to be everywhere from a diversification perspective. But from a focus perspective, there’s a lot of different lawyers that focus in a bunch of different practice areas, especially solos and small as their general Less typically. But if you could zero in on something that can build your community brand, within the internet, that’s what’s really important. You don’t want to start pushing content about family law and then transitioning into IP law because all of a sudden people don’t know what you’re an expert in. And I think that’s the importance of expertise and zeroing in on a focus. Someone that I think has done an amazing job with it is Francesca whispered, she’s on she’s on Instagram, LinkedIn, tick tock, et cetera, all around trademark and IP law. And she’s zeroed in on that, yes, because she’s an expert there. But it’s resonating with so many people. Because we look at the pandemic, it’s so easy for people to start businesses now. But people don’t remember the ideas around why it’s so important to protect your brand, and your name and the IPS around and I think she’s done a really good job of creating that education factor.


Steve Fretzin  [20:53]

So that but then real quick, just to jump in. I mean, even when people are IP, there’s prosecution, there’s litigation in IP, there’s trademarks versus pattern. There’s now you can get into specific industries. I do. I do. I’ve got a client, for example, that does trademarks, primarily, but within the pharmaceutical or the makeup industry and the different different nutritional products industry. So he’s niching down, it’s like, I’m not doing everything IP. I’m doing one piece of IP, and then I’m even that I’m Industry Focus. Is that what we’re talking about, and then creating content around that in bite sized chunks



around that? Yeah, it is. And I think the most important thing to from a takeaway perspective on that that whole spiel there is find something that resonates with the consumer market. And if it doesn’t take the legalese, and make it distilled so that consumers can understand it. That’s what makes your brand presence important is how do you really create a community around something that’s super complicated and not easy for the everyday consumer to understand? Moving on to your next question, though, that was that was baked in there, which was, what is a modern lawyer? Well, our we’re building a brand around that modernization of legal and humanizing legal. But what I constitute as a modern lawyer that’s so important is all around customer centricity. It’s a word that I’m sure people hear all the time, if they follow your podcasts or other marketing podcasts around demand gen and things like that. But you need to create not a community, but you need to create this experience for customers, because that’s what customers enjoy. That’s what customers care about, you know, gone are the days of these transactional engagements, hey, you owe me X amount of dollars, thanks, one client in out the next you need to, again, it all comes back to that education factor in creating the customer experience, which is why we’re building our brand. But it’s so important. If you want to align with your customers, you need to really create and cultivate and explain things to them, and go above and beyond the scope than what you did last year and the year before. And always be that 1% better every time you talk to that next individual, because it’s all around the customer experience, or they’re not coming back in every industry,


Steve Fretzin  [23:13]

not just legal. Yeah. So I think I think if we’re, if we’re on the same page here, it’s making sure that you’re focused that making sure that you’re understanding your audience and who your potential clients are, and also putting together some form of an experience for them. And maybe you have an example of that. But I mean, I do find no for me in what I do, you know, the people that leave my programs, talk about me and talk about their results and talk about the benefits, just did some videos, actually that are going to be, you know, turned into a montage around. And it’s obviously it feeds that ego a little bit. But more importantly, is I think it’ll help other lawyers understand the value, whether it’s me or you or anything, what’s the value? And so that there has to be that experience. So what are some things that you that you suggest for lawyers that to make that experience better? What have you either seen or done or heard, to kind of improve that that journey or that experience? Yeah,



it’s a really important question, and I think it it can divulge past what I share my think everyone takes experience to a different component depending on what you do and who you are. My number one is go above and beyond what you think is good. Do one better every single time because you need to make sure that you are getting that next referral or people are talking about you and you’re building out your own brand. I think that’s super important. If we’re drilling down into legal specifically from a from that customer experience perspective, I think it’s really important to take the time and be transparent, responsive, available for your client. But I think what’s sometimes missing and legal is everyone is busy across every industry. But in legal specifically, there’s a lot of work to be done, when there’s a lot of people that don’t get their legal needs served. But I think what’s really important is to take the time and share with your client, the exact details and nuances of their specific case and walk them through those experiences, because that’s what creates a really strong experience in legal specifically, something that not everyone’s in tune to on a day to day basis, we have to remember that the average consumer that’s coming to your law practice, it’s probably their first or second legal engagement, people only interact with law firms one to three times in their lives. So going above and beyond being transparent, responsive, and explanatory, again, into bite sized chunks is so important from a customer experience perspective.


Steve Fretzin  [25:47]

Yeah, really good stuff. Well, thank you, Daniel. That’s terrific. And look, I’d like to keep this conversation going all day. But we’ve got to hit the three best stuff, which I know you’ve given some thought to the three best of Toronto, Canada, which I’ve done a few times, a beautiful city. So I’m coming up there to visit I’m treating we’re going out to a restaurant, where are we? Where’s the hotspot?



So can I give three different restaurants based on different


Steve Fretzin  [26:13]

me your break, you’re breaking you’re breaking up my arm? You’re fine.



I’m I’m a big proponent of Italian so one of my favorites and go to is piano piano. There’s two locations in Toronto one Midtown, one more more downtown core ish area. But that’s a great Italian spot. So when you come in Steve, when this pandemic is over and lockdown is over, and we can eat again indoors, and we’ll go there for some nice Italian.


Steve Fretzin  [26:40]

What’s the go to dish for you? Go to dish. Yeah. Dig down. I like to dig down.



I like a mushroom past. I like a mushroom past. Okay. Okay. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [26:51]

Very cool. And then sorry. So now now we’ve got this dinner behind us. There’s something cool going on in Toronto. What is that what’s going on in Toronto that I would have to see or experience?



I mean, if I if you want to experience something, I think downtown Queen Street West is a really interesting hip area and hip neighborhood, cool. Different shops, restaurants, mom and pop shops and so forth. I think it’s a great area to go and explore. And it’s different than every other city. So we’d go there for a walk around on a Saturday.


Steve Fretzin  [27:21]

Oh, nice. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like to explore I like to walk around new cities and towns and I know, I’ve been to Montreal and Vancouver all in the last number of years and just love to walk around and explore and look, you know, cobblestone streets and and just, you know, interesting people and shops. That’s great. And then what are the locals doing? I mean, I know we’re in the middle of this pandemic, and it’s rebooted with Omicron and all that. But what are what are the locals into?



Yeah, well, Toronto is, it’s it’s a great city, there’s a lot to do. I think people enjoy the cuisine. They like going out for drinks and dinner. It’s you know, it’s that many New York type of feel and vibe. So it’s similar to that extent that it’s a it’s a huge greenery type of city. Lots of people have dogs and dog parks walk around and just explore the city. So there’s so many different parts and areas of Toronto, whether you’re uptown Midtown, downtown core, but cuisine and drinks are, are a big proponent of that, but also, you know, on a weekend, nice, nice walk or hike with a dog or family and so forth.


Steve Fretzin  [28:24]

I just remember a number of years ago, I was in a hotel up in Toronto for a franchise show. And a bunch of hockey players got on I said, You guys have a hockey game around here. And they all pointed me and started laughing at me. Because I said hockey, because that’s how we say it here. And how do you say it in Toronto? Hockey? It’s hockey, hockey. Like that? I don’t know. Anyway, I was like, I was like the laughingstock of the elevator for about five minutes until they got off. But that was my my, my lasting experience there. So listen, this has been terrific, Dan, and I appreciate you taking some time. If people want to learn more about law broker, they want to check you out. Maybe sign up. How do they get in touch with you?



Yeah, so I’m sure this will be in the show notes. But you’re welcome to add me on LinkedIn, huge proponent of that linkedin.com/d Steinberg nine, you can email me at Daniel at law broker la W. br Oh, kr.com. I’d love to have a conversation, whether you’re looking to sign up, learn more about law broker or learn how to really diversify your law firm. I’m open to any of those conversations. So yeah, please reach out network with me. And I will be sure to


Steve Fretzin  [29:32]

connect. Well, fantastic. And I hope that you get some some action on that. I think what you’re doing is important for the legal industry and very forward thinking, which is the future. I don’t think any of us really believe that things are going to stay the same. They’ve already made pretty dramatic changes just in the last five or 10 years. And I think it’s going to continue to accelerate. So keep doing what you’re doing. Listen, everybody is again, thanks, Dan. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Yeah. And listen, everybody at the end of the day A law broker in the tips that you’re learning on the show and just really considering how you’re modernizing your law firm, how you’re competing, how you’re going to be set up for the next 510 15 years really important stuff. So really take to heart what Dan was saying in some of the tips and takeaways from the show. And remember, it’s all about being that lawyer, someone who’s competent, organized and a skilled Rainmaker, and that means you need to keep up on legal tech. So that being said, everybody be well be safe, and we’ll talk again soon.


Narrator  [30:35]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes