Dave Zumpano: Doing Everything With Purpose

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Dave Zumpano discuss:

  • Knowing before you no.
  • Distinguishing yourself in what you can do for the client, beyond the typical answer.
  • Systems as a key fundamental of your business.
  • Measuring everything you do, and doing that purposefully.

Key Takeaways:

  • Success comes by not stopping at the first “no.”
  • Money is a byproduct of the value you create. If you create value, the money will come.
  • Do something you love that has impact for others.
  • If you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it. You need to know what you’re doing with your systems, your processes, your marketing, and your business development.

“Emotion doesn’t pay the bills, what pays the bills is understanding your marketing, understanding what happened in the process, so that you can get good information and know how to make it better for them, as well as you, as you go forward.” —  Dave Zumpano

Connect with Dave Zumpano:  

Website: https://eplawcenter.com/ & https://www.lawyerswithpurpose.com/  & https://guidr.legal/

Email: [email protected] & [email protected]

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/LawyersWithPurpose3

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-zumpano-a0208119a/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawyersWPurpose

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LawyersWithPurpose

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: [email protected]

Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.




lawyers, people, question, listening, estate planning, practice, steve, work, marketing, dave, create, evaluation, teach, purpose, attorney, systems, build, hartford, law, business


Dave Zumpano, Narrator, Steve Fretzin


Dave Zumpano  [00:00]

So many lawyers run their practices emotionally. Oh, that was so cool. I met so many people. That’s all great emotion doesn’t pay the bills, but pays the bills is understanding of marketing, understanding what happened in the process, so that you can get good information to know how to make it better for them, as well as you as you go forward.


Narrator  [00:22]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer Coach Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:44]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I hope you’re having a lovely day. I am I’m having a great day. Listen, it’s all about being that lawyer, someone who’s competent, organized and a skilled Rainmaker, a big part of that is getting organized, big part of that is getting your confidence up on your BD and marketing and just being out there. And I just want to give a shout out to my sponsor and just an awesome awesome company called legalese marketing down in Orlando, Florida. These guys do all of my marketing, from my website to my social media, my newsletter, so if you’re getting marketing for me, even the graphics on my podcast and you wonder, gee, Steve’s really busy Guess what I’m not I outsource to those guys, and they’re awesome. And they work specifically with attorneys. I’m not an attorney. So they made an exception, but that’s okay. And you’ll be hearing more about them later. But I want to introduce my guest, and I want to bring up our quote of the episode. So it’s a Dave’s impatto he is the CEO of lawyers with purpose and co founder of guider Dave, how’s it gone?



Great. It’s so good to be here. As always, I always love talking to you, Steve, and great audience, and I love it. You’re not a lawyer, but you play one on the radio.


Steve Fretzin  [01:50]

I play one on TV and the radio and the movies. That’s it exactly. I get to tell lawyers what to do. What can be better than that? You know, exactly. And then the list is the other part. Right? That’s it. That’s that’s that’s the tricky part. The quote of the episode is from Elon Musk, it’s when something is important enough, you do it even when the odds are not in your favor. And for me, yeah, that just describes like, you know, my life, I mean, I’m always trying to push the envelope, I’m always trying to do things that are difficult. If I just did easy things, I don’t think I’d be where I am today with, you know, a great life and a great family and a great business and all that kind of stuff. I just keep pushing forward. And it’s hard. But that’s what you have to do to get where you want to go in this world. So what does that mean to you, Dave? When you hear that quote,



for easy, everyone would do it right? I gotta say the reason why that quote is so funny hearing that Steve, as I was recently interviewed for a national legal publication as well on different things, and and they asked a similar question. And you know, what hit me? Because they asked me a question like, What do you attribute your success to? Or how, and what it came down to was? When I look back at my success over the years, they it always came from not stopping at the first No. And here’s what happens, right? Somebody comes to you, and they they have a problem. And you’ve never heard it before, or you have the what I call a traditional answer that we always learned in the law, right? I’m talking to lawyers be that lawyer? Well, I’m a lawyer, I wake up in the morning, that’s what I do. But I’m really an entrepreneur that happens to practice law, right? Well, when I learned early on, I’ll give you this quick story. Someone’s a client said to me, Look, I want to protect my answer. Okay, well, we can do that. But I don’t want to give up control. Now, this is 1995 1994. So every attorney I went talked to said, This guy wants to protect his assets, but he doesn’t want to give up control. And every single attorney I talked to said, can’t do that. You gotta give up control. You can’t control it. You can’t change it, you can’t benefit from it. Right. And I got really, this just doesn’t sound right. So I got the first No. So then I started looking more in everything I saw in the last that I could do. And I’m like, That’s really strange because what I’m learning is to do that that really has to do with a state tax protection, not asset protection. So I started asking more questions they kept telling me we can’t do they told me all the reasons why. And every reason they told me why again, I’m up to my fifth or sixth no now and it goes back to is it simple? It’s not simple. You almost know you’re right. But getting over these noes. Ultimately what happened? Fast forward was I actually created became known in the industry for creating the ifpug protection trust, which is, since 2001, has become a whole genre of trust and estate planning industry. How did that come about? By not stopping at the first No. And lawyers? I gotta tell lawyers are our classic knowers we’re always we think we know kn O W, but we’re always saying no and oh, and the difference is to understand those two knows no Okay know who know and Oh, lawyers love to say no, because they they have always already done this problem before we’ve already been down this path before we already know. And then I think we have to cancel W more before we answer. So I think you’re right. I think it’s for me that how that quote comes to is, don’t stop at the first note or you can’t. I mean, when people say to me, you can’t do that. I mean, that is just a trigger for me to find out. Is that true? I need to canto W no more.


Steve Fretzin  [05:31]

Yeah. And don’t Don’t, don’t, you know, just just take the easy path all the time. I think some things like business development, marketing, growing a law practice, getting efficient buying software and use it using it. Yeah, it’s all hard. Okay. But it’s not like, you know, lifting cement bags all day. I mean, this is not like, you know, trying to, you know, take, you know, take weights up a hill, you know, this is this is brain work, and you just have to stay calm, and consider that, look, you’ve got to keep advancing the ball. You know, it’s you taking the yards.



Totally, here’s the perspective I give my members, because I’ve been training lawyers 20 years now. It’s like trying to herd cats or work, right. I love lawyers. I am one. But we’re a tough group. Right? Here’s the thing. When when we as lawyers are kind of coming at things when we go to approach them. The question we have to ask ourselves is, what value do we bring? What’s the value proposition that we’re offering someone else? What can we give them? Yes, there’s things we can give them a revocable living trust. But so can everyone else? What’s our distinguished how do we distinguish ourselves? Right? Can you give me an iPad? Right? That’s what made me famous. So when you could do something a little bit different, that’s not the answer. People are typically used to hearing. Now you’ve created value in the marketplace. And people will, will come toward that. And in a simple word, people will write checks for you. Right, that’s what they want. But here’s the key thing. In my experience, I never additional to truth, I never, ever, ever set out to do anything based on the money that it was going to make or not make, it just just wasn’t in my mind. Money is a byproduct of the value we create. If you do something worthwhile, people will come. People will write a check, people will acknowledge it, people will do it and use it. And then the byproduct is Wow, look at all this money. I haven’t I used this story. I was asked by a national organization to train their members on Medicaid planning because back in the day, nobody knew what Medicaid was I’m, I’ve been credited as being the founder of the Medicaid practice industry, because I was the first one to teach storage nationwide. How do you do a practice called Medicaid planning? And I remember saying to them, they never had a non employee teach their national memberships. I said, well, she’s never taught a bunch of words before. So what I did is I created a program, and I made it as cheap as I physically could. I said, Look, I don’t really care about the money, I really want to help these people and see what happens. So I made it as cheap as I possibly could. And guess what happened? I made more money than I ever did in history of anything I did, because I made it so damn cheap. Five times more people took it than we ever expected. It didn’t cost me any more to do it for 175 people than it would have cost me to do it for 25 people. And so I was like, wow, I didn’t expect all that. But I was trying to create value. And that’s really I think, the lesson here is if we’re always focused on creating value for other people, and my experience, it always come back to create value for me.


Steve Fretzin  [08:44]

Let me let me take that one step further or a little bit off the direction. But I think you’ll love this. I wrote an article on a few months ago, called Don’t do what you love to do, do what you love to do for others. And it’s so in line with what you’re saying that yeah, the money’s great. And that’s, that’s a that’s a part of it. But more than that, it’s if you can find something that you enjoy doing. And you can teach other people or help other people accomplish their goals or help them live their dream of having a great estate planning practice or, or law practice. Right? How rewarding is that to them? And to you?



Oh, well, it’s interesting question, Steve. Because this goes to one of the key principles that we always teach urbanization, which is mindset, right? So to have a successful business, you have to have marketing, right? You have to have operations, you have to know your legal legally what you’re doing. You have to have knowledge on that and you have to have the right mindset right? So mindset, there’s certain people that just believe nothing is worth it unless they can see the price. To me, I think what you just said is, if you find something you love doing I’ll give you an example my nephew. Crazy this the craziest thing. My 35 year old nephew been working in restaurant management for years well one of his hobbies What’s his gaming stuff? They do gaming? Right? Well, he there’s a couple of games that I don’t know a lot about it but there’s a couple of games he’s really good at. So you know, there’s it goes and builds a community, a gaming community, and they gotta kind of beat him. Well, now he had this magical number that he has 100,000 followers. Oh, boy. But yeah, now he’s getting


Steve Fretzin  [10:18]

offers. Oh, yeah. Now he’s in the money man.



Speakers a year like this? I mean, yeah, right. Playing games, video games, right. Yeah. And he’s, it’s got people from all over the world. He’s, he’s a group of eight. He’s a friend, this person in this fall gaming. Yeah. And I’m loving it. And, you know, I look at him, and I’m the uncle entrepreneur, they call me and I’m like, Okay, have you set yourself up for X, Y, and Z. But, again, he didn’t set out to make money, he set out to do something you love. And by doing it, he was helping others, as well. One, and I think I think your comment is spot on, that do what you love doing for others. And what I mean is in Arizona, Delaware, I’d say the maybe a little stripped down, do something you love that has impact on all that, that really helps more than you that really has an impact on your community, um, something somewhere. And that’s what it is where you kind of find out what do people need. And then given that automatic hands, and I’m going to the Warriors now, because lawyers on automatic pilot, because if they do anything out of what they always did the time before, then it takes more time. Well, guess what, then you’re always going to be ordinary, you’re always going to be that trust mill or that regular attorney, you’re never going to make it with deep relationships and deep success, because you never stopped to see what makes this individual different from the one before him. I have this test. When lawyers join our organization, I say, let me ask you a question. The last 20 wills or trust that you’ve done? Did you change anything other than the name and the documents? And if you can’t answer, yes, you’ve changed a lot more than that, then you’re not an estate planner. You’re a document. drafter. Right. And so that’s where I think we come to create value, how do we create value? And how do we love what we’re doing. And if we can have a lot of fun in the law, there’s a lot of creative things we can do.


Steve Fretzin  [12:08]

In Dave, take a moment just to describe what lawyers with purpose is just so my audience has some clarity, because you’ve mentioned, you know, members, and you’ve mentioned, you know, some some different elements of it. But what what are you actually doing with that business? And how is it helping the estate planning community and I leave elder care as well.



Yeah, so estate, lawyers with purpose. I want to just play on the name everybody insurance. It’s all we’re very, you know, we’re charitable. Absolutely. One of our core values is generosity, open, curious, aware, collaborative, adaptable and generous, six core values and layers of purpose. But that’s, that’s what it means to the outside world, to members of lawyers with purpose. We are purposeful in everything we do. Everything we do has a purpose. We’re intentional. We understand why we’re doing it. And what we do, essentially, as we help lawyers, create successful law practices in estate planning, elder law and asset protection. So lawyers who might be in a different area of the law, we have a lot of transitioners will say not become burnt out litigators have been litigating in the magic numbers. 10 years, when they hit 10 years, they really started to say this sucks. I’m sorry, I. But they said they’re getting fried. Right. I need another life. pianist, our practices a country club practice, you control your calendar, you control your profit, you control your clients, you control the joy that you bring to your communities. And it’s doing asset protection, Elder Law and Estate Planning, bringing those together, we have a complete platform with the legal with the technical training, and the law practice management platforms, and tools. And we’ll talk about guiding them in our lesson next generation of this, but as lawyers or purpose since 2001. We’ve been training lawyers how to create successful law practices, it’ll teach you that in law school, there’s no courses on how to run a business. And everything we do is based on the E Myth by Michael Gerber. That were my book that I read in 1998. That really changed my life. But I didn’t read it, I started living it and I started building systems. And as I built them off for my law firm, and my law firm got really successful people, other lawyers started saying, Well, can I have those? Can I have those and then that’s what created glory purpose. So that’s what it’s a searcher.


Steve Fretzin  [14:11]

Just to just to clarify, I hypothetically, I’m a tenure litigator burned out, I seek out I got to do something with my law degree that that makes me happy and gives me better balance gives me a life that I’m that I can enjoy. Because right now I’m not working I find you work with you and you’re helping me not only learn estate planning, but also to develop everything, the habits, the software that everything I need. When



you hire someone, hire, we have job descriptions, organizational charts, but there’s a system to building a practice. So we take you first we got to get you to understand the mountains you got to get to understanding the law. We’re going to teach you our relationship management system, how to build relationships are going to start with generating referrals to you how you we have the marketing elements, how you do it in the marketplace at the lowest cost initially and then we teach you how to do it the old fashioned way by handshake, right? So you get leads by handshakes, or by writing checks in the beginning, you’re gonna do by handshakes. And a lot of people never leave that because our handshake, our RMS system is so proven, people haven’t spent a dime on other traditional means of marketing other than for branding, right? So we build that all in there. And the systems are there to show as you bring on your first employee, how do you know the first employee to bring on the second or third, how do you know when you should bring them to we have all these standards built, and we help that lawyer wherever they are get to where they want to be incremental steps, and we have three basic models, the one is will be called profitable. So everyone has to get to the profitable model under that model, a lawyer is, is generating between 60 and $90,000 a month in revenue, they have a staff of one to three people. And they’re they’re netting somewhere between 25 and 35,000 a month, then, once you start getting that they want more so then we have the next model, which is called robust under the robust model. Now you’re starting to build that team out. So you’re multiplying a 60 to 90 by bringing on a second attorney or not being an SEC attorney bringing on three additional staff, we can show how bring on additional staff, I have single lawyers, a single lawyer that generates an excess of $2 million a year in revenue, because he has six key staff. So there’s a couple of different models under robust, ultimately, some of our firm’s ultimate get to what we call E freedom, e freedom, what is what we call entrepreneur freedom, where the lawyer actually is no longer required in the law firm, the law firm is operating without them. And they’re basically kissing babies and shaking hands and doing what they want. They’re involved in their communities, and their practices are running and growing by other people that that they’ve built in the that’s why it’s entrepreneurial freedom, we call it the fan program. So those are the three models and you choose where you want to be.


Steve Fretzin  [16:47]

But let me let me let me take let me take you down a different path, though, because some of my some of the listeners are estate planners, no doubt about it. And there’s obviously lawyers in every other practice area that are listening right now. So let’s let’s, you have my guesses. And my assumption is, I’m pretty, pretty comfortable saying this, that while you’ve got a model that specifically in your area, that the principles that you’re teaching and the things that you’re working on in your space, to lawyers convert around to universal, right? So whatever, let’s go through like two or three of the core principles that you’re teaching people, so that any lawyer can say, I learned something from Dave today that I can go and I can use.



So the key fundamental is, I would say, systems. So step one is systems, right? Let me give you an example. Lawyers all the time, Tommy, oh, my God, I did a presentation the room was full, there is 50 people in the room. I said, Okay, what were they? What are their names, addresses? What is their email addresses? What do they need from you, I don’t know, don’t ever do a presentation without getting an evaluation. Don’t ever do a presentation without beginning a presentation to say, Listen, I’m gonna make it three promises, promise number one, we’re going to be together these next two hours, and I promise you, you’re gonna learn a lot, you’re gonna learn a lot, a lot of nonsense, you’re gonna learn a lot of relevant information. Number two, we’re going to number one, you’re going to learn a lot. Number two, we’re going to have some fun, right? And number three, you’re going to kind of know where you need to do direction to go forward. That’s the commitment I’m gonna make you. And if I keep those three promises there, you’re gonna learn a lot, you’re gonna have some fun, and you’re gonna have a clear path forward, that you’re confident. And I’m going to ask you for one request and return that you complete the evaluation and let me know how I did yeah, get that upfront contract. When I start, I get that agreement. And I tell my members, they’ll tell you, they laugh. I say go home, but we’ll be with your family, go sit on the beach, don’t go speak to a group of 50 people if you don’t have an evaluation, and you don’t have them agreeing in the beginning of that presentation to get give you that evaluation back. Now, why is that important? Because you’re going to get those evaluations, you’re going to hand it to somebody, they’re going to put them in the system. And now you’re gonna have real numbers, you’re gonna have 27 people came, you’re gonna know 23 Fill out evaluations and four didn’t, you’re gonna have to 23 that did here’s how many people said they want a meeting, you’re gonna know that even though 21 said they want the meeting, only 14 or 15 actually have the meeting. This is what’s critically important, which is the next thing you need to be able to measure everything you do. So many lawyers run their practices emotionally. Oh, that was so cool. I met so many people, that’s all great emotion doesn’t pay the bills, but pays the bills is understanding of marketing, understanding what happened in the process, so that you can get good information and know how to make it better for them, as well as usual follow.


Steve Fretzin  [19:33]

I mean, just unpacking those two points. And if you’re listening to this, and you have done presentations in the past, nobody’s been quite as eloquent and spot on as Dave has just been and I teach this too, but you just nailed it, man, that lawyers that do presenting, they don’t get the names. They don’t get the information. They don’t get a survey they don’t get who wants to meet with me. What can I get you, you know, how do I add value for you? It’s not happening. They just show up and they leave and they Hope. And if they get that high, of course, they feel good because they got some applause at the end or they got people’s attention or whatever. But it’s not getting the movement on the business development. Here’s



the thing. Here’s the thing. Those people loved you, and they want to work with you. But you know what, as soon as they left your meeting, two by fours started hitting him in the head called life. And they forget and a week goes by oh my god, I got a call back. I was so Oh, get their name, and you call them and I called God, thank God, you called me I’ve been meaning to call you. That’s what trust me. They want you to ask them. Yeah, we we just say, Oh, look, call us. So life is crazy. I just read a current statistic that we on average, as humans now, it used to be seven to 10,000 things we see a day of selling us something. Now it’s up to 15 to 20,000. Oh, my God, it’s crazy. So these people need that as well as you do.


Steve Fretzin  [20:53]

Yeah. And again, it’s like it’s I always talk about business development, like a story. And you know, beginning a middle and an end. And the story of presenting is, you know, what’s the setup with the with the host? How are you getting them to commit to allowing you to do a survey allowing you to get access to names asking for things, right? Not taking no for an answer, always having an alternate? What are you doing in the presenting event to capture their attention to provide what Dave said, right? What were you told them what you’re gonna give them, then you have to give it to them. And then you got to follow through, remind them about the survey and their commitment, get those surveys and then follow up with them. Don’t let them sit on your task don’t used to be right, you just you just go to a conference or something and you never follow


  1. And the key thing is I say at the end Hey guys, that I keep my three promises. And we have some fun and give you direction to go forward. Great. Now keep your one promise. And please complete the evaluation shall you’ll be picking up on your way out the door, and we’d love to help you on the bottom of that email. If you do want to talk to check that box, we’d love to talk to you and see how we can help you check that box. We’ll do all the heavy lifting for you. And they love that. And then I can tell you percentages, I can tell you exactly when I have a workshop, how many people are coming, I can tell you how many people are gonna say yes, I can tell you how many who say yes, actually coming to meetings, I can tell you how many of you coming to me is actually heard me. And that can even take the average fee they heard me for


Steve Fretzin  [22:13]

and how many? And how many attorneys out of 100. Do what you just said maybe a couple



i i could say in my experience less than 2%?


Steve Fretzin  [22:23]

Yeah, it’s really, really low. And there’s a my audience has heard me say this a dozen times. So I apologize again. But you know, if you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it. And if you’re sending out a newsletter, and you’re not looking at the data, if you’re not looking at your analytics on your website, if you’re not looking at surveys and identifying out of 25, how many are interested, how many aren’t? Why aren’t they interested? Maybe you need to change your presentation, right? Yeah, well, here’s the



thing, I can help you if you’re a litigator on how to improve your practice, but in estate planning on acid production, this requires systems and processes you’re talking to the guy who for 30 years has been building systems and processes. They’re all built or they’re in layers of purpose. That’s what we give you, we teach you how to use them. So in the that software is there, it’s all automated. We’ve been cloud based since 2013. We were the first organization in the estate planning industry to bring cloud based practice management. Now, guider is a new level on top of that, and so So the theory is, this is not about can you do it? Sure, you can do it. But But someone’s already done it. And the systems are all there. Now you could focus on your highest and best skills to implement.


Steve Fretzin  [23:33]

Yeah, really great. So you mentioned systems, you mentioned measuring, what’s the third principle that you want to share that that people and this will be our last one, then we’re gonna get to the three best stuff.



The third principle that I would say this year is this. I think we’ve talked about it, but it’s so important to me, always, always, always get into the your clients perspective. So many times, we as lawyers, in their studies have read the says lawyers are in the top 2% intellectually in the country. We’re smart dudes, you know, we went through the Socratic method, we went through a process that only someone who’s gone through it knows what it is. We’re really smart. The one thing I would say, though, is how I would encourage others to use that intelligence is to really become really curious. So that’s our second core value open is open to the possibility of things you didn’t know were possible. Second one is curious, ask lots of questions. Don’t really, people go into sales mode automatically when someone says, oh, okay, well, you need this or you need that. Well, just say why? Well, why do you think you need that? I call it the three questions just to ask three questions before you answer. There’s


Steve Fretzin  [24:43]

one question I mean, let me let me just so questioning is one of the most lost efforts in it, especially in press prospecting in new business generation. It’s always solving and providing free consulting and present Seeing. And when you say ask three questions. Yeah. I mean, you’ll be amazed what you learn. It’s amazing. I mean, just in just when you hear something, your instinct, everything in your gut is going to tell you to solve it. Like my wife says to me, you know, the house is cold, while I’m gonna go figure out how to solve it right away, right with me. But maybe I have a question like, when is it? Are you cold? Or is the house cold? Or is it a room? That’s cold? Right? So it’s just we need to stop selling, and stop consulting and solving. And we need to spend more time questioning, listening, right?



And here’s, I would just go one step further. Ask the question, and then do something even more important. Listen to the answer. Don’t just ask the question, because some some crazy guy on a podcast had asked the question, the questions as you peel the layers of the onion. So what you know, so part of my history is I’m a certified trained communication trainer, right? So when you learn communications, and you peel away those layers, it really means understanding what they’re saying, Not from what you’re hearing, but from what they’re think they are saying. So clarifying and verifying, reflective listening, understanding what they’re saying, from their perspective, not yours, I’ll never forget the first time I listened. I always thought I was a great listener, I’m a lawyer. And I learned I was I went to a program, and I went scientifically knew I was listening, what Holy shit, that’s what you meant. I would have never saw that. Right. But that takes the process of asking questions, and then reflective listening. And we find why if you’re able to do that your people across from you will give you knowledge far beyond that you’ll ever find anywhere else. And they will build a deep relationship and real value for them to work with you.


Steve Fretzin  [26:46]

Well, probably the biggest aha moment that my clients have working with me as I teach something called sales, free selling, which is also the name of my first book. And one of the fundamental principles of that book is not to sell, and they go wait a second, are you telling me I don’t pitch I don’t go in and sell I don’t go in and solve when I go. Yeah, I mean, at some point, there might be a little of that way later. But when you get into a meeting where you build some relationship, you set up an agenda, you get a game plan, you go in and you question, you ferret out everything you can ferret out and peel that onion, to your point, Dave, okay. The trust, the understanding, the empathy, they you, if you actually do have a solution, they’re gonna want to hire you. And you’re not going to have to solve or sell much, because they’re really they’re bought into the to the Dave, or The Steve Show. Right at that point. Yeah.



And Laura has her purpose. There is no such thing as selling. We call it the clean enrollment process. We’re enrolling them. Here’s it, here’s what you told me your needs are, and we have a process to help them define it. We call it the estate plan audit. Here’s what we can do for you that vision clarifier, you said you wanted these things? You can do it this way, this way or this way. Here’s how it works. You tell me which way serves your way best? And we enroll them in and say okay, well, this one seems like it does. You know, most of it. Yeah, they’ve given that seems like the option. They said, that’s the one I want. Great, awesome, I’m gonna sell him anything. I’m just helping them come to a conclusion. And people want to be helped to get to a conclusion.


Steve Fretzin  [28:14]

They want to be listened to and understood. And they in the conclusion will the conclusion will will occur. It’s a fit. When two people feel like they’re there. They’re developing a partnership and agreement. It all just comes together. Right?



You know what in relationships, every relationship we have when you feel heard. It’s a different relationship. Yeah, you feel respected. When you feel heard now, and when you feel respected, it changes the relationship.


Steve Fretzin  [28:37]

Well, Dave, a lot of great takeaways for the folks listening and we do want to get to the three best stuff so let’s hit it. You are in New Hartford, Connecticut. Is that accurate? Hartford, New York. Oh, New York. Oh, my God. Yeah. Did they screw that? There is a



New Hartford, Connecticut as well.


Steve Fretzin  [28:54]

Oh, my God, because I thought maybe,



brother. Yeah, we were born and raised in Hartford, Connecticut. In New York, my brother moved to Clinton, Connecticut, which is near New Hartford, Connecticut. And there’s a Clinton New York right next to near New Hartford, New York. So it’s really interesting.


Steve Fretzin  [29:09]

Okay. That’s Hartford, New York, New York. All right. Well, that that. That’s great. All right. So if I’m coming out to visit you what’s like the top restaurant you take me to, I’ll treat?



Well, it’s funny. It’s in New Hartford, I would say Georgios, it’s a small Italian restaurant authentic. I’ve never met anyone that’s gone there who hasn’t come out and just shaking their head like wow, what just happened?


Steve Fretzin  [29:33]

Okay, yeah, so what’s what’s like the hot dish? What’s what’s like, you’d have to get it every time you go.



Giorgio grades. So that’s another thing. I think one of your questions is what are locals into? Yeah, in such a New York where we are, we’re into food. We have so many Italian restaurants, particularly a lot of other restaurants. But in such a New Yorker, Syria, we are known for chicken Ricky’s greens and actually what are called halfmoon cookie. So those were all created locally. Those are just some there’s many others. Yeah, but chicken Ricky’s are really Tony with chicken and sauce. Those are now all over the country. They’re popular. But they were started here as the thing called greens, Utica greens you’ve heard up. They’re famous now all over the country, but that’s when we go for it. And in Georgia villages, Giorgio greens, and then there’s that black and white cookie, they call them all over the country. But that’s originally a halfmoon created right here locally. So we’re behind what restaurant this night we go into and what that’s so if you’re like food, this is the place to be


Steve Fretzin  [30:26]

nice, nice. And so that sort of answers my last question, which is what are the locals into my guests is food. Right? Yeah,



food is what it is. Yep. And then what we would do locally here we’re right on the edge of the Adirondack Mountains. So when we when we if you’re coming to visit me, we’re going to take a trip to our lake house up in the Adirondacks and enjoy that whole different style of living when you when you get on a lake. And it’s


Steve Fretzin  [30:50]

just relaxing and then is like the scenery is beautiful. Are there mountains or Hills all



6 million acres of state land the Adirondack Mountains in central it’s kind of like the center of the state of New York. And Southern New York has the Catskill Mountains. But these are the Adirondacks, you’re famous for Adirondack chairs, right. Everybody said I had around a care. And that was found in the Adirondack Mountains. So that’s, that’s where we would probably take you if you came by. And it’s a whole different experience. Well,


Steve Fretzin  [31:18]

very cool. Very cool. Listen, this was this was terrific. You’re clearly an expert in your space, and you’re helping a lot of attorneys, you’re doing a very noble thing. I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your wisdom. People want to get in touch with you and hear more about either lawyers with purpose or or guide or how do they how do they find you?



Yeah, so I use a handout my my email address, which is diesem Pano at EP law, center.com. You like xOP? Like Papa law center.com, first initial last name, or you could do DS and pilot Lauryssens purpose.com or info at lawyers with purpose, that calm would probably be better. And you’ll get some of that, will we find anything around that? And, you know, I think I welcome I take emails, I get a lot of nose. So I may not be immediately put something unique in the subject line. So I know it’s not spam. And I don’t think that the lead. But other than that, I should be pretty easy to get a hold of.


Steve Fretzin  [32:14]

All right, well, listen, man, I appreciate it. I mean, just I’ve got some great takeaways here, around presenting measuring systems, questioning with clients. I mean, really great stuff all around. And I just, I’m so glad that we were able to connect on this podcast and like to continue the conversation, the relationship afterward.



I’m glad what you do for attorneys. You know, Steve, it’s so important and your perspective is different. You know, you’ve given that outside perspective. And I love how you bring people together here on these simple 30 minute conversations. And hopefully, each one helps somebody a little bit. And I’d love to come back and maybe get a little deep in the guide or some of the I could talk all day long. And you could take any microscopic of running a practice and we could turn a 30 minute into it. So well maybe I can help you and I’m here for you, brother.


Steve Fretzin  [32:59]

We’re looking at we’re looking at mix things up. And with the podcast, I’m doing something called be that lawyer live where I’m going to be bringing in you know, speakers to like interview them live with an audience and take questions, all bunch of cool stuff going on so



that panels get passed on. I mean, love that. Be happy to be part of anything I can do to help people.


Steve Fretzin  [33:21]

Awesome. Awesome. Love your attitude. Hey, everybody. Thank you for listening to David Knight today. Again, hopefully you got some great takeaways. The goal as usual is to be that lawyer someone who’s competent, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. Be safe be well. We’ll talk again soon.


Narrator  [33:39]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes