In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Deirdre Nero discuss:
- Action can precede clarity
- Growth requires delegation, not endurance
- Authenticity strengthens leadership and trust
- Expertise must be valued to be sustainable
Key Takeaways:
- Starting a firm without certainty can still create momentum and direction. Waiting for perfect readiness delays growth more than risk does.
- Handling every task personally creates a hard ceiling on scale and sustainability. Hiring support is the necessary step to move beyond survival mode.
- Hiding core aspects of identity fractures credibility and connection. Openness creates deeper trust, healing, and stronger professional relationships.
- Giving away high-level knowledge undermines both business viability and professional worth. Confident pricing is essential for long-term independence and freedom.
“I think honestly that was probably the biggest crime I committed in my firm… trying to do it all myself.” — Deirdre Nero
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About Deirdre Nero: Deirdre D. Nero is the founder of NERO Immigration Law, which she established in 2009 after practicing for several years at large domestic and international law firms. She previously led the immigration practice of a major international firm’s Coral Gables office and has deep experience advising individuals and small to mid-sized companies.
Her practice focuses on business and family immigration, including employment-based immigrant and nonimmigrant visas, PERM labor certifications, and naturalization. Deirdre represents clients nationwide and around the world, working closely with them to execute immigration strategies before U.S. immigration agencies.
Fluent in Spanish and certified at the highest level by the Spanish government, Deirdre is a passionate advocate for immigration reform. She frequently lectures and writes on immigration topics and has lived, studied, and worked in Spain, where she completed legal internships and comparative law research.
Connect with Deirdre Nero:
Website: https://neroimmigration.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deirdrenero/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/neroimmigration
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Deirdre Nero [00:00]
At some point you have to just go for it, right? And if it doesn’t work, you cut your losses. But I mean, having another lawyer there is invaluable, right?
Narrator [00:16]
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve britson, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve bretson, hey everybody.
Steve Fretzin [00:39]
Steve bretson, and welcome back to the be that lawyer podcast. Very excited that you’re with us. We are here twice a week, every week, to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. You know, it’s 2026 let’s build the book of our dreams. Let’s not, you know, short change ourselves another year, there’s an opportunity to learn and to get educated and to start to execute on business development and marketing and business best practices that are going to help take you to the next level. It isn’t just about the billable hour, right? Folks, we got to get together, and we got to start thinking about the business side. And not many people know this better than Deirdre, how are you? Hi, I’m great. How are you good? Good. We have a weird way that we met. So we met through a mutual friend, Chelsea Williams, who, I think brought you to one of our round table groups. What? And then just as it turns out, you’re also married to one of my clients, Eric, who’s in my round table. So it’s a small, small, little world we live in.
Deirdre Nero [01:33]
That’s true. I finally nailed him down after 12 years of dating. We just got married this past year. So that’s
Steve Fretzin [01:40]
great stuff. Good stuff. Well, sometimes it’s hard to wrangle the bull, right? You gotta Yeah, that’s right. Bring him down. Over 12 years,
Deirdre Nero [01:46]
I told him I was like chiseling away with a clamor and chisel, and I finally backed through.
Steve Fretzin [01:52]
That’s it. That’s it, all right. Well, he’s a tough nut, so I get it. Well, welcome to the show. And let’s start off with our quote of the show. It’s Nelson Mandela. You provided this. It always seems impossible until it’s done. It always seems impossible till it’s done. So welcome to the show, Deirdre, and tell us a little bit about why that is your quote of the show.
Deirdre Nero [02:10]
Oh my gosh, so many reasons, but I mean the short reason? Well, number one, it’s Nestle Mandela. But also my favorite musician, Jason Razzies, is it in one of his songs? So it’s funny. I know it’s an excellent Mandela call, but I always think of it in terms of Jason Ratz, just because he’s awesome. I love Jason. I know he’s amazing. I’ve seen him in concert a billion times, and I’m waiting for the day that he recognizes me. But we’re, you know, I for me, that quote resonates a lot, just because I’ve faced a lot of crazy challenges. And, you know, I’ve always managed somehow to kind of turn this thing that seemed insurmountable into something that either was a positive or, you know, a growth experience or learning experience, or turned out to be something awesome, you know. So, yep, that’s kind of my relationship.
Steve Fretzin [03:01]
You lined up Deirdre, if you lined up my junior high and high school teaching staff and asked them if they could predict that I would have any kind of successful career you would have, straight across the board, no. So you know, things that do seem impossible can come true, and I love that. And so everybody we’ve got Deirdre near Nero here, she’s the managing partner and founder of Nero immigration law. And give us a little background on how you came to be and the things you’ve overcome.
Deirdre Nero [03:28]
Yeah, absolutely. So I started this firm in 2009 not the best time to start a firm. You know, it was bad economic times, and beyond that, I was going through a lot of personal challenges. I was actually going through a divorce, which was brutal, and I had just started a new job at a large law firm, which is, like one of the biggest immigration firms in the world, and I was working for them. And two weeks into that new job, which was, like, very stressful on its own, my ex husband decided that he was gonna peace out on our marriage, and I had no idea that that was coming. So that really bad timing for me. And at the same time, and probably related, stress wise, I lost all my hair to an autoimmune disease called alopecia areata, which I already had, but I had it in a very like mild form, and then it just went, and I just went, evolved. And, you know, it was like a whole thing happening all at once. And that was rough, you know, and so I decided, in the moment to start my firm, mostly as, just like I didn’t know what else, what the halls to do with myself, type of thing, and I had all these clients, and I was like, Well, I better create some kind of structure that I can service these clients. But I never really intended have that be like a long term business. And again, that was in 2009 so obviously that it ended up become. Saying, you know, a larger thing than I thought it was going to be. But in the moment, I really was just like, oh, I’ll just hang my shingle till I find my next opportunity, till I get my personal life kind of in order, until I, you know, get through this really rough moment that I was born in my life, probably the roughest moment I’ve been through in my life. And, you know, I ended up, kind of like, the quote, like, I ended up just turning it into something else. And a lot of that actually not in the beginning, but a couple years in, was actually Eric helping me, because when we met in 2000 12,013, I was like, I had been like, a couple years doing it. And I was kind of like, oh, no, I’m cut out to do this, you know. So I was kind of entertaining getting back into a firm, or even going, like, in house at a company, or doing something else, yeah, that I didn’t have to hold my own firm anymore because I was really struggling. And he was like, No man, like, don’t give up. Like, I’ll help you, or do it together, because that’s right, when he recorded his term. So he really helped me kind of stay the course, and, you know, grow and learn from him and his business skills and everything. So Well,
Steve Fretzin [06:12]
maybe that’s a good transition point to, like, you know, what did you guys talk about and work on and, like, what were the things that were missing that you recognized as gaps that you needed to sort of figure out.
Deirdre Nero [06:23]
I mean, one of the first things he helped me understand was like, to I needed to hire people that I couldn’t do, like everything on my own, because at that point I was like, doing everything and immigration, for those of you that don’t know a little bit about the practice area, especially the side of the practice that I focus on, which is business and family based. Immigration is very like paper work, intense, yes, right? And so I was doing everything from finding the clients to, you know, putting together the cases and doing the consultations, to doing marketing to, like, licking the stamps and making the photocopies. And, you know, you know, doing all of it, and it was brutal. And he was like, What are you that’s,
Steve Fretzin [07:06]
I mean, it’s kind of like, every lawyer that goes out on their own, I think, makes that mistake. And it’s like, you know, if they could just hear you say this now, before they go out on their own, or if they’re six months in, like, okay, but I had a bookkeeper get a VA, like,
Deirdre Nero [07:20]
yeah, exactly a couple years in at that point. So, like, I should have made that decision sooner, yeah, but took him kind of pushing me to do it. And, you know, now I look back and I’m like, Oh, my God, can’t imagine having to do all of that on my own again, like, without any team and stuff.
Steve Fretzin [07:40]
Well, I mean, the thing is, too it’s hard to build business. It’s hard to build brand. It’s hard to focus on the stuff that are the business sides of it, when you’ve got your finger in every bowl trying to do every little task, right? So you figure that out. And then, then, did you spend, if it once you got that sort of organized into, you know, how to build the business and how to grow?
Deirdre Nero [08:00]
Yeah, of course. And you know, I started focusing a lot more on marketing and sales, you know. So that was very helpful. And we, you know, especially in the beginning, not so much anymore, a little bit now and then. But really in those days, it was very heavy that him and I would do a lot of networking and business development together. So that was fun. And, you know, it helped us that just feeling comfortable in building relationships and anyone he would meet he would introduce me to, and vice versa. And so it really kind of like amplified our exposure and our ability to just meet new people, find new referral partners, and find new clients, you know, and all of that. So it was, really, was a fun time to kind of go to this one coffee shop that was by his old office, and we would just be there, like, all day, doing back to back, like, networking meetings together. It got to the point where I was, like, no more coffee. They’re gonna have to, like, put me in a straight job.
Steve Fretzin [08:56]
Yeah, that’s a lot, and that’s that’s gonna be, that can be very taxing in a day. I mean, as much as it was, a lot other things can be
Deirdre Nero [09:03]
we laugh about it now, because we’re like, there’s no way we could do that now, but like in those days, that was, it was fun, and I think it solidified our relationship.
Steve Fretzin [09:11]
I’m with you. I was like, you. I was popping around from networking to networking, and 3456, in a day. And like, you come home and you’re just like, your brain is because you got to really be on you can’t sleep through those.
Deirdre Nero [09:23]
I know, and I’m just like, I don’t talk to anyone. I don’t talk on the phone. Please don’t call me, because I don’t want to talk on the phone to anyone. Yeah, so, I mean, it’s still a lot, I still do a lot of, obviously, that stuff, but
Steve Fretzin [09:36]
yeah, and I know, like, one thing that we had talked about prior to airing, this is just about authenticity, and we talk a lot about that on the show. And I don’t know that lawyers fully understand what it means to build a practice being your authentic self. Can you kind of dive into that for a moment.
Deirdre Nero [09:54]
So for me, a lot of that has been, you know, because I did lose my hair, and I wear wigs. This is a wig. And like, if you’ve known me for any amount of time, you’ve certainly seen me without my wig on on many occasions, then it’s all over the internet. So if you’re curious, you can kind of but that was really complicated for me, because in the beginning of losing my hair into this autoimmune disease and trying to navigate, you know, now I’m like, creating this whole brand that’s like around me, basically. And I don’t have these big firms and their their brand to kind of fall back on or hide behind, even I had to kind of be the base name everything of the firm. And I was really suffering like, a whole identity crisis of like, what it means to not only lose, like, your husband and and your job and how to be a business owner when you didn’t expect to be but also, like losing your whole like self image and femininity and everything that comes with our you know what hair means to everyone, not just but especially women, not just women, obviously, but, and it was really rough, And I was hiding a lot in the beginning. And luckily for me, I found the foundation that is the foundation for this disease, the National Alopecia Areata Foundation, and I started working with them, and I started becoming an advocate for them. And through that, I was able to see that, like, I don’t need to hide it. You’re right? You don’t have to hide it, you know? And, yeah, and I can wear a headscarf. If I want to wear a headscarf, I can wear my bald head. I can wear my hair. I can wear pink hair if I want to, right, like, I can just, it’s just me being my authentic self and advocating as, like, what I do, right, like, so I’m an advocate for immigrants in my job, but I’m also an advocate for the alopecia patient community in my private life, and trying to kind of, like, meld those two together. And instead of being like, feeling like I was two people living one life, you know, trying to be just like one whole person that lived authentically, and everyone kind of knew what my deal was, you know, and it both in business and in personal. And a lot of that, too, jumped for me when I started doing fundraisers in my local community and thinking like, Well, I gotta invite all my business contacts, because that’s the majority of the people that I know, and that potentially I could raise funds off of and also raise awareness. And you know, I never did my fundraisers with my weight on, because the whole point is, you know, be advocating for this disease, and you want to show people what it is, you know, so that they can understand
Steve Fretzin [12:30]
so, but it’s, but, I think what you’re but what you’re saying
Deirdre Nero [12:33]
all my worlds and melding them, you know, yeah, but that, and I think
Steve Fretzin [12:36]
just, we don’t necessarily show our vulnerable sides, we don’t necessarily show the things in the dents in our lives and the things that have actually sort of defined us. One of the things I love about this show and asking the question, which I’ll get to at the end, which is, you know, what’s what’s x, you know, X, you know, whoever’s name, big mistake is because it gives someone an opportunity not like to open up their heart and everything, but like to kind of share a challenge, a frustration, a person, or whatever. But I think that we don’t do enough of that. But what ends up happening is it actually allows people to connect with us better, because they realize, hey, you know, we’re all imperfect.
Deirdre Nero [13:15]
Oh, 100% and I definitely think that once I started opening up to just my business network and just basically everyone, and not just like my close friends and family, about what was actually going on with me, it really helped me be just more authentic overall, but also, like very healing, you know, and people relate and trust You in a different way, and are more willing to like when you’re asking them then to give you money for your cause or whatever. You know, are much more willing when you’re when you’re willing to kind of put it out there and be authentic and talk about things that maybe otherwise you wouldn’t really want people to know about. So, right? Yeah, you know, I
Steve Fretzin [14:00]
put it pretty front and center on my LinkedIn, that I survived a plane crash. I mean, that’s, that’s a different type of challenge in in a life, you know, from part of it is, part of it is again, sharing a part of myself that, you know, that’s unique, something that was very challenging for me, that I had to overcome being basically human pretzel and recovering from and all of that. I also think it’s interesting. So I think there’s, you know, not everybody’s talking to plane crash survivors every day. So I think there’s, there’s things that you know, whether we have overcome a disease, whether we’ve overcome an injury. I had someone on my show, you know, month ago or so that, you know, got walked on it, walked off a curb and bang, got hit by a car, and, you know, that was almost on there, so, but I think that’s an it’s an important part of sort of like our persona and how we how we leverage it in our personal, our business lives. I think most lawyers are scared to just be honest.
Deirdre Nero [14:57]
Yeah, I agree, and I think I. You know, I don’t mean to generalize, but I do think for women, especially in law, it’s even harder. I think that women have and maybe it’s ourselves causing this perception, you know. I mean, I’m not trying to say that it’s man’s fault or anything like that, but I think, you know, we perpetuate kind of these needs to be perfect and to look a certain way and to dress a certain way, and, you know, and it’s hard when you’re when you don’t fit inside of that box perfectly.
Steve Fretzin [15:30]
And that’s been a thing for years where, like, guys get ready to go out in about three minutes, and women take, you know, longer because they feel the need. And I get it like that’s, you know, but it’s, but,
Deirdre Nero [15:39]
um, I will say one good thing about wearing a wig is that I get ready a
Steve Fretzin [15:43]
lot though, record time you’re out the door in five minutes flat.
Deirdre Nero [15:46]
Nice usually is in my purse when I leave the when I leave the house in the morning, that’s not even on my head. So you know, it’s all good with
Steve Fretzin [15:58]
proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings.io. Prides itself on proof, not promises. Mentality. The best firms hire rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases, other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver. Get More rankings, get cases and schedule a free [email protected] today, hey everybody. It’s Steve fretzen as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you, and let’s make this your breakout year. So let me ask you this question, because there’s branding, there’s being authentic, there’s also, you know, clearly an entrepreneurial side to your life, and in the path that you took, a lot of the people listening to the show have either made the move to go off on their own, or they’re in a small firm or big firm, or whatever, anything between, and it’s always crossed their minds. I mean, I think this is a show specifically for motivated people, and it’s hard for motivated people not to at least think about what it would be like to be an entrepreneur. What’s it meant to you?
Deirdre Nero [17:17]
I mean, for me, I think freedom is the most important thing, right? Like just being able to be like, the boss of my own life, and, you know, is so, like, worth its weight in gold, yeah? But it’s also the hard part, right? Is that when you’re the boss, you’re responsible for everything, and in charge, pros and cons across the board do everything, and the brain never stops. And sometimes at night, my brain’s like, you know, I can’t get it to stop. And it’s like, okay, you know, I gave up trying a while ago because I’m like, Alright, I’m having one of these nights, not gonna turn it off, you know? And so it’s, it’s obviously the good side of the coin and the bad side of the coin. And I had a couple of opportunities to join firms, and, you know, I thought about it seriously a couple times, because it is a lot of stress and pressure, and it’s hard to do this for yourself, you know, and then, especially once you have staff and you have an office and you have overhead and you have payroll, and, you know, it’s, it’s a lot, but how have you supported yourself? I was like, I can’t do it.
Steve Fretzin [18:17]
But Deirdre, you mentioned earlier that you were doing everything yourself. What’s been the end result of the epiphany that, you know, doing all the work and doing all the day to day and really getting in the weeds on everything? What? What have you done to resolve that? Like, what does your team look like now?
Deirdre Nero [18:32]
Oh God, thank God for my team. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t think I could go back to those days honestly. Well, first of all, you can’t really grow when you’re in that situation. It’s just impossible, right? You’re there’s a definite ceiling to what you’re doing, right? And so for those of us that are highly motivated, right, we’re always kind of like, you know, once your head starts button up against that ceiling, you’re ready to start trying to break through. And like, I think the only way to really do that, in that first instance, is to start hiring people that are going to help take some of that load off your plate. But for me, like, specifically, I have, again, immigration law, super paperwork heavy, super, like, information gathering. Have you know, a lot of that stuff does not need to be done by a lawyer, right? So the first thing that was, like, most important was building a good team of paralegals. You know, I started with one, now I have three, you know, but that’s been key, right? Because the paralegals are really helping me put together the actual, like, paperwork file, which is so time consuming and requires so much back and forth with clients that, like, I don’t even know how I was doing that myself, to be honest with you, like and so that’s number one. Number two, obviously, having a good assistant and someone that’s going to help you manage, you know, the administrative aspects of the firm, so that you don’t have to be constantly worrying about confirming appointments and calendaring and, you know, just doing all of that, taking the. Money, you know, drafting the the engagements, like just doing all the little things, making photocopies, flicking stamps, you know, which a lawyer shouldn’t be doing, you know. So that was definitely like my first hire, right? And then my assistant was so good at what she was doing that she became my paralegal, and we hired an assistant to replace her. She’s now been with me for over 10 years. Is my senior paralegal. She’s amazing. So, you know, and then kind of building in, kind of a support team for her as a head paralegal. And then eventually I got to the point where I wanted to hire an associate. Actually had two for a moment there, but one of them left us last year. So I have one associate right now, which is nice, because now I have someone else that can also do some of the attorney work and also some business development work, you know, I that’s primarily my focus, but he’s also doing that as well, which is awesome. And then I really, actually, at Eric’s urging, started adding law clerks to my team. And in the beginning, I was like, this is like, what am I doing with these people? Like, I don’t know what to do with them, right? And he kind of was teaching me what he did with them. And now they’re like, indispensable. I’m like, if I don’t have any law clerks, well, on, on, on the schedule that day, because they go with, like, their school schedule. So it’s not always I’m like, where are my log words, because I become so dependent on them to take notes during meetings and to follow up, you know, do follow ups with potential clients, and to do research assignments. And, you know, helping the paralegals I like, you know, and, and a lot of them are very, very smart and can are capable of a lot more than than you think they are. And once you see that, you know, even giving them real you know, PACE work to do, and it’s, it’s been great,
Steve Fretzin [21:53]
is there, is there a secret that you could share of how you’ve been successful hiring, because that I know, for people going out on their own that are doing too much, that that first paralegal, that first associate, that first VA or admin, makes a huge difference in their in their life.
Deirdre Nero [22:13]
I went through like two before I found the one.
Steve Fretzin [22:16]
But that’s, there’s, there’s lessons to be learned through that, I’m sure,
Deirdre Nero [22:20]
yeah for sure. And you know, one guy was just murdering way too many trees, like I was finding boxes, and I’m like, You’re a dream driver, like, so much, so much waste. Like, I can’t even tell you, but that was the least of his his issues. But we still joke about still joke about that. When I got my team to be like, using scrap as like draft paper, just so we’re not immigration lawyers are notorious for using a lot of paper, so yeah, but I I learned a trick from God. Where did I learn it? It was either one of the sales coaches, or it might have been and how to manage a small law firm, which I didn’t actually do the program, but Eric did it for a short stint, and I was kind of like his plus one at some of the, some of the things. So I don’t, can’t remember if I learned it from my sales coach or from from them, but they were, they were giving us this, you know, this was a while ago. Okay, so people were still using Craigslist jobs, which now I don’t think we do, but it was like creating this insanely long post with, like, these very specific tasks that they had to do to help, like, weed people out. Now looking back, I’m like, I don’t know that or not, but it really works, like I found this amazing lady who’s been with me now forever, and that’s how I found her, and it was, it was great. I mean, she, she ended up being the best thing that I think the best decision I ever made at my business was hiring her. So, yeah, I mean, that’s how I did it. But I think you just need to, how about more recently, mentally? More recently, yeah, I think you need to prepare yourself mentally that interviewing is a pain in the ass when it’s kind of like a long process, right? And like, not just to get frustrated and hire like the first person that you talk to, and really try to find someone that is going to be a good fit and that you might not be able to tell from the interview. So if you notice that, then, in the beginning, you need to probably try and cut them loose faster.
Steve Fretzin [24:24]
I like the idea of interviewing and then maybe having either someone else interview and then also having them complete a task. So I like, I have a my VAs in the Philippines, you know, shout out to you, Ian. And like I said, Hey man, before we go any further and I’ll pay you for this, you know, can you do like, you know, 10 hours of, you know, video editing. I want to see like your video Absolutely. I love that. So he comes back, instead of doing like, you know, 10 hours, he did a lot more than that, and charged me for 10. Didn’t want more, but like, he wanted to really demonstrate to me, like he can over perform and then, and it was really to my liking and satisfaction. I was like. Wow, this is great. And you just, you know, I think it’s like, you know, anytime you can get a chance to test somebody before you, you know, it’s like, you know, I get a
Deirdre Nero [25:07]
sample from another person, like, especially if you have a trusted person on your team that can also do, like, a second interview, or even do the interview with you. I’ve done that plenty of times, and I definitely think that that’s worthwhile. I do have a marketing person who’s offshore, she’s in Columbia, that was a hire from from this past year, and it was very similar where she kind of went, like, above and beyond, and showed me, like, samples of what she could do, and created this whole presentation for me, and I was, like, very impressed. And at the end of the day, that’s really why I chose her above the other candidates, because she was demonstrating to me, you know, the work that but she could do, and I hadn’t even asked her to do it. It was awesome.
Steve Fretzin [25:55]
And you mentioned a few minutes ago that you, and I think you told me this in a free interview, that you that you’ve hired a sales coach. Obviously, that’s what I’m doing for lawyers. We don’t call it sales because that’s a scary, scary word, so good for you that you can use it, but we’re all sales people. It’s just, you know, lawyers, again, they’re, they’re, they’re not. Nobody became a lawyer to go into sales, right? That’s, that’s a known thing, and there’s a lot that goes into business development and branding and entrepreneurship and things like that. What did you learn? Like is there one takeaway from the from the sales coach that you use that has really stayed with you and helped you to be successful throughout your I
Deirdre Nero [26:31]
don’t use him anymore. Well, I’m hopefully you learn something, but I learned a lot. And Eric and I both did we, you know, we both used him at different stages of our you know, past 1015, years, I think, to not like undervalue what we’re doing, you know, and people are always going to try to get discounts, and especially when you’re working on flat fee, like we do A lot, you know, the tendency is to want to give a discount, or to they’re asking for a discount. You know, not to give in to that. But instead, you know, make arguments, but you know, in a kind of a friendly way about, you know, why you’re not going to discount and why you shouldn’t discount, and why they don’t deserve a discount. I mean, you obviously don’t say it that way, but you know, and at the end of the day, like, what we’re doing has a lot of value, and we need to remember that. And you know, my sales coach was the first person that was like, why aren’t you charging for your consultations? And I was like, because this is he’s like, no, okay, how many consultations? And he did the math, and he’s like, you could have bought, like, three houses with the amount of advice that you’ve given away. Like, what are you doing? Yeah. I was like, that’s great, yeah. Why am I giving all these, you know, umpteen hours of free advice? Like, my knowledge is valuable, and when I give a consultation, I’m not just, like, being like, here’s what we can do, and, 123, XYZ. Like, we’re really, especially in immigration, everything is so specific to the person and the situation and what’s going on in the world and and if there’s so many moving parts, you know, and what we’re doing, it’s really valuable, yeah. And so, like, why are we charging for that, you know? And so I started charging consultations. That was probably, you know, the best advice I got from him. I mean, so many things to boil down. I mean, if you know,
Steve Fretzin [28:31]
the point is, like having someone that is outside of your world, that can, that can help, and that’s, that’s, that’s why I’m not just saying this for myself, but, you know, I’m friends with, you know, dozens of lawyer coaches and all kinds of organizations that are built to help lawyers.
Deirdre Nero [28:48]
Wasn’t even lawyer specific, and I still
Steve Fretzin [28:52]
get like and before I was I wasn’t right, I mean, so it’s like, there are people that know things in areas that you don’t, you can’t read your label from inside the bottle as easily. So find people that that are that are just going to add value for you, but make sure, and this is maybe something like you knew this guy through Eric or whatever. I know there’s a lot of good coaches, and guess what? Just like in any industry, there’s a lot of bad coaches. So you really need to make sure that you qualify. The program, the coach, what they’re talk to their clients, like, do your homework before you just throw money down on in anybody, whether that’s a lawyer or a consultant, whatever.
Deirdre Nero [29:30]
But I think, like we also as lawyers, especially those of us who have been practicing for a while. I’ve been practicing over 22 years now, so like, I consider myself to be pretty experienced, you know? And I feel like there becomes a bit more like, oh, I have nothing new to learn, and not on that topic. And that’s bullshit. Yeah, there’s always something new
Steve Fretzin [29:50]
to learn. Something new. I’m learning all the time. I’m learning all the time, right? I’m learning whether it’s it’s new ideas that I want to execute on, whether it’s AI, whether it’s. Social media, like chasm of things.
Deirdre Nero [30:03]
Yeah, there’s a whole new world with AI, all right, even beyond that stuff, you know, I think that just keeping your mind open that but you don’t know everything, yep.
Steve Fretzin [30:14]
Deirdre speaking of, speaking of, of, of this and what we do at the end of every show, not knowing everything, but, um, what’s your big mistake?
Deirdre Nero [30:23]
Just one drive to pick.
Steve Fretzin [30:25]
Well, you mentioned one earlier about, like, doing everything yourself. That’s a
Deirdre Nero [30:29]
big, big I think, honestly, that was probably the, probably, yeah, the biggest, like, crime I committed in my firm and the in the first several years, yeah. And I think the second one, which is similar, was not hiring another lawyer sooner. Yeah, I really pushed that off for as long as, like, I had a whole paralegal team and admins and but I kept procrastinating, like an associate, yeah? And I kept thinking, you know, I can’t afford it. I can’t this, I can’t that. How am I going to have time to, you know, train them this and that, no. I mean, at some point you have to just go for it, right? And if it doesn’t work, you cut your losses. But I mean, having another lawyer there is invaluable, right? And so that was kind of like the next step of of that process of trying not to do it all yourself, because I was finding myself as recent as you know, this past year, up all night checking cases, right? Because of the only lawyer in the firm, and so everything has to go under my red pen, right? Well, I
Steve Fretzin [31:30]
haven’t forbid you go on a vacation, right? And you’re like, you’re having to work through the vacation,
Deirdre Nero [31:34]
yeah, exactly. And having someone else that can do consultations and someone else that can attend a client’s interview if I’m out of town now that has that’s really invaluable. And I pushed that off like, I mean, literally, you just started the big it’s been, it’s, it’s about a year now that he’s been with me. So I’ve been doing this for a long time. My firm celebrates our 17th anniversary next week, next month.
Steve Fretzin [31:59]
Think they call that a 17 year, overnight success,
Deirdre Nero [32:05]
work in progress. Don’t get
Steve Fretzin [32:06]
me wrong. Before we go any further, I want to take a moment thank our amazing sponsors. Of course, law her podcast, if you haven’t heard that, with Sonia Palmer, amazing podcast, helping women and taking them to the next level. Rankings. IO, you know, for all your marketing needs, and, and, of course, future rainmakers. My other podcast is having a relaunched on January 19, so check that out. And also, just want to mention that if you are enjoying the show, please don’t be shy about leaving a kind review on Apple or Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. You know it’s a little thing, but for me, it helps, not only me out to get the branding of the show built, but also it’s helping other lawyers find us and give them great content, like Deirdre and everybody else that I have on here, to help them be the lawyer. But the other piece of it is, you know, it’s helping us continue to get to build this audience and build, you know, how many people we can help globally. So Deirdre people want to contact you. They want to network with you, learn more about you. What are the best ways for them to find you?
Deirdre Nero [33:00]
So our social media handles are at Nero immigration, and my email is always the best, d N, E, R, O, at Nero immigration.com, I’d love to hear from any of you listen to this.
Steve Fretzin [33:13]
Well, you will tell I hope Eric that I said hello when you see him later, and tell him. I said, Hey, and he’s the best. And just thanks so much for coming on. Sharing your story, sharing story, sharing your you know, the authenticity, the entrepreneurship, the mistakes, I mean, all of these things that make make us stronger and better. We have to kind of go through our own little journey. So you were very kind to share yours today. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me, yeah, yeah. And thank you everybody for hanging out with Deirdre and I for the last 30 and so in a few minutes as well. And look, we’re here for your assistance to help you learn all the stuff you never learned in law school. So let’s keep at it, and we’ll continue to keep this stroll. And again, if you want to check out some of our video clips, not only on our YouTube channel under Steve fretzen, but we are many of them are on above the law and Attorney at work. So if you check out those publications, you will see some of our stuff. Thanks, everybody. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.
Narrator [34:08]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal, business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.