Doug Bradley: Marketing Your Law Firm the Right Way

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Doug Bradley discuss:

  • Understanding the numbers around marketing.
  • Bootstrap marketing on a limited budget.
  • Laying the groundwork for solid website optimization.
  • Setting expectations and calls to action.

Key Takeaways:

  • Having your own book of business gives you power and freedom.
  • Be willing to try and test out options. There is data out there for search terms but you need to know what you’re trying to accomplish.
  • What might not be the right marketing fit for you right now, could be good later down the line. Don’t discount something permanently just because it’s not right now.
  • When working with a marketing professional, make sure they have experience working with others in the area of practice that you are in.

“I would not dismiss completely the option of creating a very basic website and linking to it from your social media channels and your directory profiles. That really gets your website up and running and visible to Google and you really want that.” —  Doug Bradley

Find out more about the Bootstrap Your Marketing to Build Your Personal Brand Event at: https://fretzin.com/events

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/

Episode References: 

About Doug Bradley: Doug Bradley is the owner of Everest Legal Marketing and a highly experienced SEO professional. He’s different than many agency owners because he actually understands technical Search Engine Optimization and diagnoses website visibility issues for law firms.

Connect with Doug Bradley:  

Website: https://www.everestlegalmarketing.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-j-bradley/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/everest-legal-marketing/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/EverestLawMktg

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/everestlegalmarketing

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: [email protected]

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hello, everyone. Have you ever wondered how much more business you could be generating each month? Well, you can take the Be That Lawyer challenge to find out. If I’m unable to help you find the money that’s been evading you, I’ll pay your hourly rate for the time invested together. Just go to Fretzin.

[00:00:15] Steve Fretzin: com to sign up. I’m challenging you. Now enjoy the show.

[00:00:23] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host.

[00:00:45] Steve Fretzin: Well, hey everybody, welcome to Be That Lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin and thanks for being a listener. Thanks for coming and listening to the show. And whether you’re in your car, walking your dog, I don’t really care. We’re going to help you to be that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker.

[00:01:01] Steve Fretzin: I love the rainmaker part of it. That’s really, I mean, yeah, organization and all that’s good. I just, I love teaching lawyers how to make it rain, how to find the gaps and, and then, and then just take it to the next level and double, triple their books. And that gets me up and in marketing is a big part of that.

[00:01:17] Steve Fretzin: Um, I love the idea that that business development and marketing are like two sides of the mountain. Oh my God, that’s so great because we’re talking to Doug Bradley with the owner of Everest and that’s a mountain, right? That

[00:01:28] Doug Bradley: is, that’s, that’s our logo is

[00:01:29] Steve Fretzin: Everest. I didn’t plan. I didn’t plan a great segue, but that’s where I went with it.

[00:01:34] Steve Fretzin: It was smooth. Well, I’m not done yet. I’m going to add to it. So I talk about if you really want to be at the, at the tip of the peak of the mountain, you have to climb the business development side of the mountain while you’re also climbing the marketing branding side of the mountain. They meet at the peak and that’s when.

[00:01:51] Steve Fretzin: Everything good happens because you’re combining that the relationships in the effort with business development as well as the branding and marketing that happens through someone like Brad or someone like Doug Bradley. So what do you first of all, before we can get into it, what do you think of that?

[00:02:04] Steve Fretzin: What do you think about that idea of the of the 2 sides of the mountain?

[00:02:07] Doug Bradley: Um, yeah, no, I, I like it. Um, you know, mark marketing often reflects the personality of a law firm. And you know, when, when you can tell a story through marketing or advertising and help connect with people emotionally, I think that’s the best type of marketing there is.

[00:02:23] Doug Bradley: It’s memorable. Yeah,

[00:02:25] Steve Fretzin: yeah, again, we all want to stand out and we all want to get business and have a great career. And I think putting those two together seems like, uh, like a peanut butter and chocolate, right? Just it’s, it’s a good combo. Um, the, the start of the show Doug is, I love to do is, is the quote of the show.

[00:02:42] Steve Fretzin: This one I really like. I just, I think we’re always doing this and it’s not a good or healthy thing to do, but it’s, uh, comparison is the thief of joy. And that’s a Teddy Roosevelt. So, uh, first of all, Doug, welcome to the show. And second of all, talk to us about that, about that quote. Yeah, thank

[00:02:57] Doug Bradley: you for, uh, thank you for having me on the show.

[00:02:59] Doug Bradley: I really do appreciate it. You know, I’ve heard that quote so many times. And I think as business people, we, we tend to get caught up in comparing our business and our lives with other people, especially people we believe to be in our peer group. And whether we see that person buying a new house, whether we see that person buying a new car or going on a really expensive vacation, I think even the most humble people have a tendency to say, wow, what is that person doing that I’m not doing?

[00:03:28] Doug Bradley: Or what are they, how are they getting that? And I’m not getting that. And I’m working just as hard or harder. And it really tends to rob you of the things that are right in front of you. If you have, uh, if you have your health, if you have a stable income, if you have a healthy family, you know, these are all things that we tend to overlook when we’re comparing ourselves to other people.

[00:03:48] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I, and I find that when we’re looking left and right at what everyone’s doing and comparing ourselves, we’re not looking ahead and that’s when, and that’s when we’re, we’re not really, you know, focused on the future and indirected in the future and where we’re headed with things where we’re just kind of, you know, look inside and side.

[00:04:04] Steve Fretzin: And when we look ahead, my, my kind of deal is when you look ahead, then you’re kind of, you’re going to see your competitors in the rear view mirror because you’re not looking left and right. They’re just, you’re just seeing that the, you know, the road in front of you. Yeah.

[00:04:15] Doug Bradley: Stay to where the puck is going to be, not to where it’s at.

[00:04:18] Doug Bradley: Yeah.

[00:04:18] Steve Fretzin: All right. Well, let’s leave it. Yeah. That’s at least three quotes in the last couple of minutes. So we’re already, we’ve got, we don’t have to do them in the next two shows then. I’m going to keep them coming. I actually did one show where it was a show of quotes where the friend of mine, uh, just really wanted to talk about the quotes.

[00:04:35] Steve Fretzin: I was like, let’s just do a show about quotes, Doug Bradley, you’re the owner of Everest legal marketing and give us a little background about how you came to be in the space and specifically working with lawyers. Yeah,

[00:04:48] Doug Bradley: it’s, um, it’s, it’s a story, um, that really is defined the last decade of my life. I worked for a major legal directory, uh, worked there for a few years and, uh, one day they announced that they’re going to be firing everybody because they’re getting sold off to another larger advertising conglomerate.

[00:05:06] Doug Bradley: Um, and myself and about 200 of my coworkers, um, were basically let go because the new firm had an internal sales strategy that didn’t include expensive outside sales reps. And, um, shortly after that, I decided, you know, I really don’t want 1 thing to be my sole source of income. And I really want my destiny to be defined by my own efforts.

[00:05:32] Doug Bradley: And that’s where I’ve been really directing my attention for the last decade.

[00:05:38] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And you know, it’s interesting. I, I talk with, with, you know, lawyers that are in general counsel jobs and they think they’ve got that security because they’re in the GC role and it’s sort of like a coveted spot for many lawyers.

[00:05:49] Steve Fretzin: And they’re not staying for 10, 20, 30 years like they used to. I mean, they’re getting, they’re getting pushed out, pushed around up and down. And, uh, many of them are coming to me and saying, Hey, I think I need to hang a shingle because no one will hire me, don’t have a book of business, don’t have a network to draw from, really.

[00:06:05] Steve Fretzin: And I go, that’s going to be a tough one, but we can do it. But it’s, but it’s certainly better with help than without, but I just, I think you’re right that, you know, there’s, there’s no jobs are stable except by the way, and I’ve covered this in many ways when you have your own book of business, because then it’s like your business under someone’s umbrella and you have a lot more control and power and freedom, but that doesn’t sound like that’s what you had at, uh, at that directory.

[00:06:28] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and I think

[00:06:28] Doug Bradley: that’s a larger analogy just to business in general. It seems like there’s so many mergers and acquisitions and people at those jobs and people at those companies who are left to kind of fend for themselves. Actually, just before a meeting today, 1 of my longest term clients, uh, just informed me that he’s merging with another large law firm locally where I live and, uh, it’s great news.

[00:06:52] Doug Bradley: He’s been around for almost as long as I’ve been alive. Uh, but, uh, yeah, his, his staff is going to, there’s going to be changes for

[00:07:00] Steve Fretzin: sure. I was talking with, um, perspective client last week and he mentioned to me, uh, that he needs to, he’s talking with a digital agency about spending money. He’s in the B2B space, commercial real estate, and I questioned it.

[00:07:16] Steve Fretzin: I didn’t tell him not to do it. I just questioned it because it seems like they’re just selling him something. And I just don’t know if it’s a good fit. Like I just, I didn’t know that they had done the deep dive or that they had really taken the time to understand, like he’s going to spend two to 5, 000 a month, that that’s going to get them an ROI.

[00:07:32] Steve Fretzin: Based on the fact that, you know, who is, who he’s selling to, who his clientele is and, and how it’s going to really help him build his brand. And I’m not saying business development’s the only option for him, but from my perspective was a far better investment than, than, you know, SEO or things that, that aren’t going to really get him where he wants to go.

[00:07:48] Steve Fretzin: But what, what’s, how do you as a law, how do lawyers figure out how much they should spend on marketing? How much they should spend on website, digital, all that. How do they come up with, with numbers that make sense? That’s a really good question,

[00:08:04] Doug Bradley: because oftentimes in marketing numbers don’t always make sense.

[00:08:07] Doug Bradley: And the other tough thing about specifically what we do SEO is the ROI is often a little long tailed. And especially on startup projects and startup firms, it’s really tough to show a clear line of ROI early and quickly.

[00:08:24] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Um, and that’s okay. Like that’s, you know, there’s, there’s a marathon, not a sprint.

[00:08:29] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. As long as expectations are, are set up, but like an example, I, I, you know, SEO for me, I’ve done it a number of times. It doesn’t hurt. However, you know, league people typing in legal business development coach, you know, how many people are really typing that in and how many people are looking and searching for that on Google?

[00:08:46] Steve Fretzin: It’s not a lot. It’s not a lot. It’s not like I’m a legal agency or marketing agency, or they’re looking for, um, you know, uh, you know, how do I find, you know, something on Amazon, you know, things that are regularly searched. So It, it, it, it helps to be found, but like to spend a million dollars on something that isn’t really.

[00:09:04] Steve Fretzin: Being searched for it, you know, so I guess that’s where I’m saying, like, uh, somebody’s known searching for a commercial, you know, no CEO of a 50 million company is going online and searching for a commercial real estate attorney, you know, to help get the property.

[00:09:17] Doug Bradley: Yes, and no, um, I

[00:09:18] Steve Fretzin: would, I would tell you, are they?

[00:09:19] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, maybe I’m

[00:09:20] Doug Bradley: wrong. Yeah, no, I will tell you 1 of the most interesting stories, success stories that I have about a client is, um, this client who does personal injury law, that’s his bread and butter. But he also has very specific, uh, experience in a weird area of law called partition referee and receivership work.

[00:09:38] Doug Bradley: And I’ve been working with this attorney for at least well over 5, 6 years now. And he hired me primarily to market his personal injury firm because that’s, that’s what you do. But I told him, I said, you know, why don’t we just put a page up about your partition referee work? And he said, well, you could waste your time if you want to, but there it’s a good old boys club.

[00:10:00] Doug Bradley: Uh, you know, all the attorneys referring their buddies and the judges in these matters already have a list of people that they’re going to refer in. And I’m never going to get anywhere with any. Best effort on SEO, so I went ahead and, uh, I took his advice and I put up some content and lo and behold now, fast forward 6 years.

[00:10:20] Doug Bradley: To today, it’s well, over 50 percent of his business and he’s still every time we meet. He’s still amazed that judges and lawyers go to the Internet to find that one niche area of law. So if you looked at it on an SEO report or an analysis of keyword visibility and search volume, it would basically say zero.

[00:10:42] Doug Bradley: But the people who are searching, they’re really highly intent, and they need to hire a very specific professional for that one set of service. And it was really interesting to see that transformation.

[00:10:55] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, but that’s, but I, but I love the idea that you a went that way with him and also that, you know, try it out, right.

[00:11:01] Steve Fretzin: Test something out, try it out and you have the data. You know, that’s the other thing is like, there’s, it’s not like you don’t have data on those search terms or what people would be searching for. Like you can see if there’s people searching or not. And giving it a try. So I’m not suggesting to this, this lawyer that he shouldn’t, I didn’t say don’t do digital.

[00:11:19] Steve Fretzin: Like I didn’t say don’t do something. I just said. Uh, you know, let me help advise, let me try to help, you know, just let me hear the whole story of like, are you looking to hire people? Is that what your website’s for? Are you looking to, um, maybe you have more leads than you can even handle. So what’s digital going to do for you?

[00:11:35] Steve Fretzin: More lead generation when you can’t handle what you have coming in. Like I’m just saying like sometimes it’s going to take a step backwards before you start throwing money there. And there’s a term thrown around in legal all the time, random acts of marketing. And sometimes I feel like lawyers are just.

[00:11:49] Steve Fretzin: Oh, they’re getting hit up constantly, right? With all these different agencies every day. And, and so they get sucked into something that kind of sounds good. Oh, it’s tick tock. You know, I’m going to start doing funny dances on tick tock or whatever. And it’s. You know, maybe for some, that’s going to be great for others.

[00:12:04] Steve Fretzin: That’s like, you know, delete,

[00:12:07] Doug Bradley: yeah. And to your point, I will tell you, I tell, uh, uh, lawyers all the time who we have a consultation at a discovery meeting. I tell him, you know, this, this probably isn’t the best avenue for you. Maybe before you embark on an investment. You take some time and invest in developing relationships locally, referral network, uh, you know, maybe, uh, SEO and digital marketing aren’t the right fit for you at this moment.

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[00:14:24] Narrator: com.

[00:14:27] Steve Fretzin: So let’s talk about two different scenarios. Okay. One scenario is maybe a newer, newer, newer law firm that doesn’t have a big budget. You know, we’re just trying to pay our rent or we’re just trying to cover overhead and things like that and get some business in the door.

[00:14:42] Steve Fretzin: And then maybe someone that’s got, you know, millions that not to spend, but millions that, you know, investing in, in, in marketing would make sense. What, how do, how does, how does, how does it, let’s start with the new firm, like how do they bootstrap online marketing with, without that budget?

[00:14:58] Doug Bradley: Yeah, yeah. Well, and first off, if you have millions to spend on marketing, you can email me at duck.

[00:15:03] Doug Bradley: No, I mean, with the bootstrap marketing, I think 1 thing that gets dismissed a lot in my industry is the value of. Some easily assembled websites that lawyers can do themselves if they’re starting up, you know, the hang in their own shingle going into solo practice. You can assemble with the tools available today on Squarespace and Wix is a great platform.

[00:15:30] Doug Bradley: Weebly, WordPress might not be the best thing for a brand new lawyer who has no experience with website development, but those three platforms, Squarespace, Wix, and Weebly. It’s incredibly simple to get up at least a very basic yet professional website with all of the bullet points about what you do, some service pages, your biography, your experience, your results, those types of things.

[00:15:53] Doug Bradley: And that’s something really you could do in your own time on the weekends or at night or in the morning and work on it a little bit. I think it SEO people because. SEO people often believe that the only way to solve it is through SEO and that there’s only one right way to tackle

[00:16:12] Steve Fretzin: this. Yeah, but I’ve got a hammer and everything looks like a nail.

[00:16:16] Steve Fretzin: Yeah,

[00:16:16] Doug Bradley: exactly. There’s another analogy. Bingo. But, but, but it’s, it’s true. And there’s huge value to SEO and there’s huge value to bringing on a knowledgeable partner who’s really experienced. In law firm search engine optimization, but I would not dismiss completely the option of creating a, at least a very basic website and linking to it from your social media channels, your directory profiles, because that really gets your website up and running and visible to Google.

[00:16:48] Doug Bradley: And you really want that, because at some point, when you SEO professional. You’re a lot of the groundwork has already been laid and you’re out of some of the technical filters that Google puts on brand new website URLs. Yeah.

[00:17:02] Steve Fretzin: And I’ll just add to that, Doug, that, you know, social media, since you brought it up, um, you know, in, in legal, having a great LinkedIn profile, um, getting your social media channels up and starting to get some posts out and.

[00:17:14] Steve Fretzin: You know, explaining your value and sharing your, you know, knowledge and doing things that are going to help you stand out. And the reality is that even, even with a basic website, most people are looking at LinkedIn profiles before they even go to your website. If they even go to your website, they might just have, see a great LinkedIn profile.

[00:17:32] Steve Fretzin: You’ve got your email there and they email you and now you’re, you know, doing business. So, um, yeah, I think that inexpensive website, social media, any other things for bootstrap that. You would recommend they start, they should do right away. You know, I’ll,

[00:17:45] Doug Bradley: I’ll, I’ll give you, I’ll give everybody a hinted and Jim here for, uh, legal marketing and SEO.

[00:17:51] Doug Bradley: And I don’t, I don’t know how well it’s been discussed, uh, in the past, but just Stia offers a free profile to any lawyer and all you really have to do. Is go to just the and sign up and you have to submit your bar card or some other documentation to show that you’re an actual lawyer, which is a nice feature to keep out spammers.

[00:18:12] Doug Bradley: But just is at least 1 of the top 3 most visible directories. If you do any legal search for a lawyer in any city in the U. S. just is typically a top 5 result. And just having that profile and presence, you’re going to get traffic and leads from that Justia profile. So I’m not a Justia salesperson. I don’t know the fine folks in Justia, but they’ve built a really great directory and obviously Google values it.

[00:18:41] Doug Bradley: And you can set up a free profile right now, uh, and maximize that profile and everything that you do should go into that profile and you will get leads and traffic from it.

[00:18:50] Steve Fretzin: That’s great. That’s great. All right. So let’s flip forward to the. Firm that maybe has, you know, five to 10 lawyers there. They don’t have a budget.

[00:18:58] Steve Fretzin: They don’t have an internal marketing person They they need leads. They want to grow. How are you managing that?

[00:19:05] Doug Bradley: Yeah, so I think the first part of the decision making process if I could offer any advice to someone who’s in that position or someone who’s transitioning from You know the the latter to you know, a five to ten turning firm and you’re looking for a professional I would look for someone who has experience specifically working with law firms.

[00:19:29] Doug Bradley: I would make sure that that person has experience. Getting visibility and results and traffic and, uh, ROI and contacts and leads specifically for the area of practice that you’re in what I see. And what I’m, I’m sure a lot of other lawyers see is that they’ll hire a website designer and then they’ll ask that website designer.

[00:19:50] Doug Bradley: Do you do it? Do you do SEO? And that person instinctively and reflexively will say, oh, yeah, we do SEO. It’s, you know, 300 a month and we’ll, we’ll set up this and that for you. And, and there’s very loose expectations. Um, and it’s very difficult to know what they’re doing, but you really need to hire someone who’s very experienced in marketing and optimizing a law firm website.

[00:20:13] Doug Bradley: Uh, because you can spend a lot of money doing the wrong things for a very long time. So that, that’s, that’s probably one of the key pieces of information that I would impart on anybody.

[00:20:23] Steve Fretzin: You mentioned earlier that some lawyers and law firms aren’t the fit. How are you handling the, either the initial meeting or the meeting where, you know, you need to sort of evaluate them, evaluate the potential, evaluate, you know, are they good clients and vice versa?

[00:20:41] Steve Fretzin: What, what sort of your process for that to ensure that everybody wins in this scenario?

[00:20:45] Doug Bradley: Yeah, I think what I do is an internal checklist of does this person have, uh, the bandwidth and the infrastructure for new clients? Do they have a receptionist or somebody who’s going to be answering the phone who’s trained in sales and lead management?

[00:21:04] Doug Bradley: Uh, because oftentimes, and I’ve called my. Finance law firms, and if my 1st experience with that law firm was what I would experience through the receptionist, I don’t know that I would call back a 2nd time. Or maybe that I would even leave my name and number because it’s, they were prepared for people calling with inquiries.

[00:21:26] Doug Bradley: And so that I usually often say, who’s going to be handling this? What’s your. What’s your expectation? Um, who’s trained with intake? Cause this is going to produce leads and it’s going to produce people calling and it’s going to be producing people who are upset about certain things. And the last thing you want is to produce a bunch of people calling and have them get disappointed and write a negative review.

[00:21:48] Doug Bradley: So, yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s probably where I typically start that assessment. And if financially they have the wherewithal to understand SEO as a process, it takes time and you might be investing in this without an immediate ROI.

[00:22:03] Steve Fretzin: And so is there, are there times you mentioned like SEO is the way to go if they want a more immediate, um, response and they need leads now?

[00:22:11] Steve Fretzin: Is that, is it moving to pay per click is that, is that sort of the next option? Yeah, I mean, that that’s,

[00:22:16] Doug Bradley: I’m a person who will definitely recommend, uh, pay per click, even though it’s not something my agency does, but those local service ads, there are no, there’s no denying that they’re visible and that they produce leads.

[00:22:29] Doug Bradley: Uh, the quality is questionable. Um, but, uh, I, I definitely know that that’s a, uh, a short term. Uh, solution to getting interest in your practice. I mean, you have to, you have to fish where the fish are.

[00:22:44] Steve Fretzin: If you had to say what a website’s core purpose is for a law firm, what would you say are the top things that that every, every website should have that will not guarantee, but definitely, uh, you know, put them in a better position to accomplish their goals.

[00:23:04] Doug Bradley: Yeah, capability is the first thing, not just capability of, uh, the website being found for competitive search phrases. I mean, that’s kind of obvious. But can you showcase your capability to someone who doesn’t know you, um, if you get a referral from someone, the sales funnel for a referral is very different than someone who calls you because they responded to your website.

[00:23:29] Doug Bradley: And I think 1 thing that law firms who do it really well convey. Is that they have a high degree of capability for certain types of cases and they market to those strengths. So, uh, that, that would be, I think kind of primary. Um, I got kind of got lost in that. I was thinking about that. What was

[00:23:47] Steve Fretzin: the, I’m not telling you, but I let you just sit here and you’re going to let me scramble.

[00:23:51] Steve Fretzin: No, it was, it was like, what are the top things that a website should accomplish for a law firm to know that they’re on the right track? I mean, it could just be a digital sign that’s up on a screen. Hey, we’re ABC law firm, but you’re already saying, no, it’s, it’s demonstrating the capability and, and, and putting out there where we know we’re better than everybody else.

[00:24:15] Steve Fretzin: And why?

[00:24:16] Doug Bradley: I think, uh, another thing, uh, call to action and convertibility in order to rank well on Google, you know, there’s a hundreds of variables about that, but you have to have good content. And good content will with a well optimized and authoritative website that showcases well, it’s going to rank well, but oftentimes what I find with legal content is there’s not a strong reason as to why to contact that firm.

[00:24:45] Doug Bradley: And so with legal content, you’re going to want to make sure that there’s a good, strong call to action. Why should I call you? Why should I reach out to you? Why should I submit that contact form? What is it that I’m getting out of me? Contacting you? Am I getting your experience? Um, what are your case results?

[00:25:02] Doug Bradley: Like, how do you handle clients? Um, you know, those types of things I think really need to be communicated really well in a law firm website to set the right expectation for their clients. Really

[00:25:13] Steve Fretzin: good. Do you have a, do you have an example of, and I’m putting you on the spot all the time here, Doug, that’s part of the part of the fun I get.

[00:25:18] Steve Fretzin: Uh, is do you have an example of a great, like a poor call to action that you changed into a really good call to action? So they weren’t getting real good traction. You put in some call. What, what was the call to action? How was it set up and laid out and then what, what was the result?

[00:25:35] Doug Bradley: Yeah, so the, the, I think the most obvious 1 is the free consultation.

[00:25:41] Doug Bradley: Uh, it’s pretty much standard that anybody who works in a contingency area of law is going to offer a free consultation. And as it should be, I think that’s the thing that draws a lot of people. They want to get some questions answered with no risk. But I also think that when you put in some rationale as to why you want to get this free consultation from us specifically and set some expectations around what that free consultation looks like during your free consultation, these 3 things will happen.

[00:26:11] Doug Bradley: We’re going to listen to what happened. We’re going to try and understand the facts and we’re going to try and understand who might be liable for this situation. And then we’re going to talk about how your case could proceed or your claim could proceed. And I think setting those expectations is far more valuable than just saying, call us for a free consultation, which is kind of open to interpretation as to what that consultation might be.

[00:26:34] Steve Fretzin: And let’s, let’s wrap up with what are the top three things that law firms need to, to do with you are on their own to ensure that their website gets bound. So, you know, top SEO or getting people to your site. Um, that’s not paid, like, you know, not pay per click, but like they, they find you on Google and click and, you know, what, what are the, what are the things that will drive someone to find you?

[00:26:59] Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

[00:27:00] Doug Bradley: So, um, top, top three, uh, website structure and the authority of your website. Okay.

[00:27:08] Steve Fretzin: Um, Define, define, define authority. Cause I don’t know that everyone knows what that means.

[00:27:12] Doug Bradley: Yeah, and this is a big buzzword amongst SEOs because it means a lot. The authority of your website is in many ways even more important than the content of your website.

[00:27:23] Doug Bradley: Google rewards authoritative websites, and what that means are websites that have been referenced or linked to from other authoritative websites. So it may be legal directories like Justia. It may be, um, news outlets. It might be an article that was written about a topic. That links over to your website and uses information from your website as a reference point for their topic.

[00:27:51] Doug Bradley: Um, so without authority. Your content is not going to rank not, not in a competitive, uh, landscape, like law firm search engine optimization. There’s 0 percent chance if you’re in a, in a competitive field in a competitive geography that you’re going to get much visibility. Um, another thing I would say, and this is another place where I think a lot of SEO people, because they’re so technically minded.

[00:28:17] Doug Bradley: I think they miss sometimes is the collaboration that you can have. With your search engine optimization agency. If I never knew to ask that lawyer about his other work other than personal injury, I wouldn’t have known to put up a page of content and do some SEO strategy around that page of content that would completely change the trajectory of his firm in a positive way.

[00:28:44] Doug Bradley: So having conversations and always going back to. This just happened in my firm, or I see this developing area of practice, or this is something unique that somebody asked me about, and I want to make sure that we promote this in the right way, or maybe it’s something that you want to minimize. Maybe it’s something that went the wrong way that you want to kind of pull back a little bit, um, but communication between the SEO person who’s actually doing the work.

[00:29:10] Doug Bradley: And you is absolutely vital

[00:29:13] Steve Fretzin: some really really good tips there. I appreciate that so much doug. Let’s um, Let’s wrap up with their game changing book and I know you’re a big fan of this one, uh, steve jobs

[00:29:22] Doug Bradley: Yeah, I, you know, uh, the, the one, uh, I read is a biography, uh, by, uh, I believe is Walter Isaacson, uh, a really good, this is one, one book I’ve read cover to cover and it’s an old book at this point, but I read it over the course of a weekend actually while I was on vacation.

[00:29:40] Doug Bradley: And I remember that that book specifically talked about. Innovation not being afraid to innovate, even if it means that you have to kill something that’s currently profitable for you. You know, innovating is really the lifeblood of a business. And then the 2nd thing. That that book really talked about quite a bit was Steve Jobs ability to create what was called a reality distortion field.

[00:30:06] Doug Bradley: And it was basically, he had this innate ability to convince anybody around him really of anything. And it was a mixture of kind of this charm and bravado and charisma that just gravitated people to believe himself, believe in what he was saying. And I think that’s important in business and it’s, it’s, it’s helped me to try and approach people in a different way.

[00:30:32] Doug Bradley: Not just in a technical way over your website X, Y, and Z. And this is why you should choose us. And here’s the bullet points. But how do we make a difference?

[00:30:41] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I mean, that’s for me, that’s what it’s all about. How am I making a difference? And when I leave this world, I want to know that I, you know.

[00:30:48] Steve Fretzin: Helped a lot of people and that my, my content and my stuff will, will continue on beyond my life and really good stuff as we wrap up. Um, let’s just take a moment to thank our sponsors. Of course, Lawmatics, Get Staffed Up and Green Cardigan Marketing, all terrific partners of the show and Doug Bradley, Everest Legal Marketing.

[00:31:05] Steve Fretzin: If people want to reach out to you, they want to talk to you about SEO. They want to pick your brain. What, what are the best ways for them to reach you?

[00:31:12] Doug Bradley: Well, thank you. And thank you again for having me. I really appreciate being on today. Um, so everestlegalmarketing. com, you can go to my website in the upper portion of the website, you can click to do a local SEO audit.

[00:31:25] Doug Bradley: Um, and Twitter is probably the best place to find me. You can click through from my website to my Twitter links, or just search Twitter for Everest Legal Marketing, and you’ll find me there. That’s probably where I’m most active. Yeah.

[00:31:36] Steve Fretzin: And I mean, right away when I met you, I, I loved your website, and I said that’s that’s good.

[00:31:40] Steve Fretzin: That’s good. A good sign when a marketing agency has a great website. Right? Because if , if they don’t, it’s like, wait a second, your website’s stinky. Right? Oh, and then, then here’s the line. Oh yeah, we’ve got our new one, you know, being made now. It’s always in development. It’s always in development. Well, all right, great.

[00:31:56] Steve Fretzin: So, you know, I’m gonna hire someone to do something that. You know, they’re not doing for themselves. That’s a concern. Um, well, thanks again, man, for being on the show and sharing your wisdom. I, um, I think you answered a lot of questions that lawyers have about. You know, how to spend intelligently and to really look for, you know, the right ways to do it versus just jumping into those random acts of marketing that, that happens sometimes.

[00:32:17] Steve Fretzin: So, you know, kudos man, keep it up. Thank you. I appreciate the time. Yeah, my pleasure. And thank you everybody for spending some time with Doug and I today. Man, I’ve got my usual page of notes, uh, and I’ve got all these, you know, great ideas that, uh, you know, hopefully you do as well. All about helping you to be that lawyer, again, someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker.

[00:32:36] Steve Fretzin: Take care everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll see you again soon.

[00:32:43] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, Fretzin. com, for additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.