In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Eduardo Paiz discuss:
- When most lawyers feel discontent with their jobs.
- How business development is different between the US and Latin America.
- Cultural differences in business communication.
- How the Young Partners Accelerator is helping lawyers in transition and changing their mentality.
Key Takeaways:
- Most lawyers feel discontent when they don’t feel in control of their careers.
- Business culture is the biggest difference when doing business development in other parts of the world. In the US, relationships tend to take a backseat to direct business matters. In Latin America, the relationships are driving more of the work.
- In Latin America, you are unlikely to receive a direct “no” in business. It also usually takes a couple of meetings before you speak directly about business after the relationships are established.
- Becoming a partnership will, and should, change your job dynamics.
“The dynamics are the same. If you have clients, you have the ability to bring in clients, you are going to be better compensated. You are going to have more power at the table. The dynamics of the legal market are the same.” — Eduardo Paiz
Read more from Steve at Above the Law: AboveTheLaw.com/tag/Steve-Fretzin/
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Episode References:
- The New Strategic Selling: The Unique Sales System Proves Successful by the World’s Best Companies by Robert B. Miller and Stephen E. Heiman – https://www.amazon.com/New-Strategic-Selling-Successful-Companies/dp/044669519X
- Find out more about the Young Partners Accelerator at: https://ypaccelerator.com/ use Steve’s code for a discount! FRETZIN24
About Eduardo Paiz: Eduardo Paiz is one of the founding partners of the Young Partners Accelerator, a unique program designed to train attorneys as they transition into partnership roles. As a consultant, he specializes in business development in the Latin American market, where, for the last 10 years, he has helped hundreds of attorneys build and grow their books of business. Additionally, he has assisted several law firms in establishing the processes and culture needed to promote cross-collaboration in their business development efforts. He is a two-time author, speaker, proud father of two daughters, and avid traveler.
Connect with Eduardo Paiz:
Website: https://bolderconsulting.legal/
Website: https://ypaccelerator.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eduardo-paiz/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, before we get to the show, I just want to share that I’m now writing for Above the Law. If you enjoy this podcast, you might also enjoy my monthly columns. You can go to Above the Law and type my name into the magnifying glass in the top right corner to read my latest articles. Thanks and enjoy the show.
[00:00:21] Narrator: You’re listening to be that lawyer life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice Each episode your host author and lawyer coach steve fretzin Will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results Now here’s your host steve fretzin
[00:00:43] Steve Fretzin: Well, hey everybody welcome back to the be that lawyer with fretzin podcast I’m thrilled that you are here, hopefully twice a week, every week to get your little taste of, you know, business development, marketing, best practices from me and the, and the fabulous guests that I continue to bring on week after week.
[00:01:01] Steve Fretzin: You know this is, this show is all about helping you to be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. So I’ve got Eduardo waiting in the wings. How you doing, man? Hi Steve. Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be
[00:01:11] Eduardo Paiz: here.
[00:01:12] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. How are things down in Guatemala? It’s Sunny and great.
[00:01:15] Eduardo Paiz: Sunny and great. Not too warm. Yeah. No, no, no. Wait, this is called the land of the eternal spring. So we always have a very, very nice weather. Oh, man. That sounds
[00:01:26] Steve Fretzin: nice. Chicago has known for the same thing. 12 months a year. We have great weather in Chicago. Everyone knows that. Yeah. I’m just kidding. No, it’s awful for half.
[00:01:34] Steve Fretzin: Anyway it’s actually not too bad. It’s actually not too bad. Well, I’m so happy that you’re with us. Everybody’s going to enjoy this conversation and what we’re going to get into today, starting with our quote of the show. And this is a good one. I like this. Here it is. If you have chosen, you know, let me start over.
[00:01:49] Steve Fretzin: All right, here we go. You have chosen the wrong path. If it’s not fun and you are probably not taking enough risk, if it’s not rocky and hard sometimes. And that was Mark Russell Benikoff of the co founder of Salesforce. So first of all, welcome to the show. And second of all, tell us about that quote.
[00:02:09] Eduardo Paiz: Well, you see, I, I always say that there’s no growth within the comfort zone and there’s a point in which you get very good at what you do and it doesn’t feel challenging anymore. That’s when you can know you have to start trying something else, start pushing it because if you stay there, well, first you’ll get bored and then you won’t feel like you’re growing.
[00:02:32] Eduardo Paiz: Yeah. So, so that’s why I, I’m a advocate of try to always break your comfort zone. That’s
[00:02:41] Steve Fretzin: why I love that quote so much. Well, and the other piece of it is the fun piece, like, I’m having fun talking with you, I’m having fun solving problems with clients, I’m, I was just on a panel today with a bunch of experts in, in marketing and social media, and it’s just like, I get up and I’m like, I’m shot out of a cannon and happy and excited to like, work.
[00:02:59] Steve Fretzin: And I don’t know that all lawyers are feeling that feeling because they’re maybe doing work that isn’t interesting or maybe they’re not getting out and meeting people and networking. I mean, what are some of the reasons that lawyers are kind of miserable being, being a lawyer?
[00:03:14] Eduardo Paiz: Oh, so we’re going to jump right in, right?
[00:03:15] Eduardo Paiz: Well, I don’t know. I guess I just kind of went there. All right. So I don’t think that anybody’s miserable just for being a lawyer. Like in any other profession, it has ups and downs and his and it’s problems where I feel that I’ve seen why, why, where I’ve seen that the most lawyers are discontent with their, with their careers is when they don’t feel in control of them.
[00:03:42] Eduardo Paiz: They reach a point in which they’re very good at what they do. They do great work for clients. But they still feel like there’s somebody else’s employee and they don’t want to be there, especially in between 38 and 48 years old. And normally that’s because well, business development is, is, is, is such a, an important issue because they if they can’t.
[00:04:09] Eduardo Paiz: Bring themselves to build their own networks, to build their own referral sources, to build their own book of business. That’s when that frustration starts coming in and it stops being fun. I
[00:04:21] Steve Fretzin: mean, I would say, I would say, yeah, no, I mean, you’re spot on. And I would say that if I had to rank the number one answer that I, I ask every lawyer, what’s their motivation for hiring me or what’s the motivation for making a change in your career?
[00:04:36] Steve Fretzin: And it’s almost always because I don’t have control. I want the autonomy, I want to be in a position of power where I can be portable if I wanna, you know, if I have to move or something bad happens, I’m in control. So you are, you are really spot on with that, with that reasoning. I think there’s a lot of lawyers also who maybe they’re in the wrong practice area.
[00:04:58] Steve Fretzin: Maybe they got pulled into litigation, but they don’t like to argue. Maybe they’re in an area that just isn’t interesting to them anymore. And there’s lots of different ways to kind of skin the cat to go in different directions. The one that takes the most effort and the most commitment is probably the control piece with the business development, which we’re talking about on the show all the time.
[00:05:18] Steve Fretzin: And we are going to get back to in a moment after we learn a little bit about you, Eduardo, do you want to give a little bit of your background and how you came to be in the legal space?
[00:05:26] Eduardo Paiz: Sure. Well, I’m a lawyer. Bye. Well, that solves that. I went to college and I went to law school, but, but why, why did you, why did you decide that?
[00:05:36] Eduardo Paiz: It’s a very funny story. I was in high school and my dad offered me a trip to Cancun if I, if I was a part of the honor roll in my senior year. So I was very good at math, but math only ran for six months and the other six months I didn’t have math classes. And if you added my, my grade from the math class to the entire year, I would be on honor roll.
[00:06:06] Eduardo Paiz: But they wouldn’t give me honor roll. So I go to the, to the, to the student’s manual, to the student’s law and, and I found that they, they had to count math for the entire year. So I could go to Cancun. Oh my God. So I, so I presented my case to the principal and, and I went to Cancun and I decided that I wanted to be a lawyer out there.
[00:06:28] Steve Fretzin: That is, that is, that is a, you’re not joking. That is a funny story. Wow. I’ve never heard anything like that before. But, but I
[00:06:35] Eduardo Paiz: was, here’s the thing. And here’s how I end up in what I do. I was in, in between studying and going to business school and being a lawyer. So, but I always had that entrepreneurial business side of me.
[00:06:48] Eduardo Paiz: I used to sell. When I was a kid, I used to sell jewelry face creams whatever you gave me, I sold, right? So I always felt like I was a litigator, but I always felt like there was something missing while, while I was practicing. And I ran into a website that, that in Spanish is abogadosynotarios. com which is lawyersandnotarypublic.
[00:07:13] Eduardo Paiz: com. And it was available, it was for sale. So I bought it. I figured I’ll do something with this. So I, I, at first I figured I’ll, I’ll do a directory of law firms. When I started investigating, I went down the rabbit hole and I found that the way that directories were making money back then is what all by offering other services.
[00:07:33] Eduardo Paiz: So I said, I’ve got to do websites for lawyers or to do marketing for lawyers. And I ended up studying with with some consultants in Spain. For strategy and management of law firms. And that’s where I learned that you can be a consultant for law, which there are not very much in Latin America.
[00:07:51] Eduardo Paiz: So when I come back to America, I, I, I, I didn’t want to be a lawyer anymore. I want to be a consultant and that’s, that’s how it all started.
[00:08:00] Steve Fretzin: All right. So the legal, yeah, the legal bus, sorry, the legal background leading into the entrepreneurial business stuff and that, and then working with lawyers all comes into play.
[00:08:11] Steve Fretzin: Yeah,
[00:08:11] Eduardo Paiz: that’s that’s how I end up in consulting and I shift to business development. Well, not really shift because I do both things. I do strategy for law firms and I also do business development training. But when I noticed like 7 or 8 years ago that whenever a law firm would hire me, They would they would hire me to do strict strategy or compensation or anything, but what they really wanted was more clients and more matters at the end of the day.
[00:08:39] Eduardo Paiz: So I, being as I’m a very straightforward person, so being as straightforward as I am, I figured, no, you know, you know what you want. We want business development. So I want to train myself in teaching you that. And that’s how I ended up doing business development.
[00:08:53] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I’d be crazy not to ask you.
[00:08:56] Steve Fretzin: Because, you know, it’s not every day that I’m interviewing someone from Latin America with in business development for lawyers, culturally, you’ve got the U. S. and Canada and Spain and I’m going to bring up Saudi Arabia in a little bit because I’ve got a couple of Saudi clients, but Culturally, how is business development and your experience different just from, let’s just say, Latin America with the U.
[00:09:19] Steve Fretzin: S.? Like how, what’s going on that’s different about how lawyers build business there versus here?
[00:09:25] Eduardo Paiz: All right, so what I’ve noticed from engaging other lawyers in the States and looking at the different markets, I would say that the main difference between Latin America and the States. It’s business culture.
[00:09:40] Eduardo Paiz: The business culture in the States is generally more direct and more time efficient, so to speak. I mean, they’re, they’re thinking about productivity, deadlines, measurable results. And don’t know, don’t get me wrong. I mean, relationships in the States are important, but often secondary to performance metrics from my experience.
[00:10:00] Eduardo Paiz: Okay. Whereas in Latin America, the business culture tends to be more. Flexible, more relational. So there’s a greater emphasis to do business development and social interactions, hospitality, business report over time. So I would say that would be the main difference doing business development in the States and Latin America, but if you want to go, if I can, if you allow me to get more into specifics, I would say that the US market is more mature in many aspects.
[00:10:34] Eduardo Paiz: Being more mature. There’s a lot of processes that are being applied in, in companies in, in the States and in Canada that are directly designed to eliminate subjectivity from the processes and focus on objective metrics. So, while. In the States, personal relationships might get you into the roster, like to present an offer in Latin America, they will get you into the roster and give you a considerable advantage if the people that are that are in charge of the hiring decision.
[00:11:15] Eduardo Paiz: Constable with you in a personal life
[00:11:19] Steve Fretzin: right select let’s say for example that you get it you get in the US you get a seat at the table to present your firm but if it’s not a good fit like for example academically meaning. That your your depth of your bench or your team isn’t there or you don’t have enough diversity or that like the numbers don’t align then you may be rejected for those reasons where in.
[00:11:39] Steve Fretzin: Let america it’s a little more little more free flowing. Yeah,
[00:11:42] Eduardo Paiz: exactly exactly like that. I mean. And there’s another thing I would say that in the States right now, like your digital persona, everything you do on digital, the way you present yourself, how you specialize, everything will go a long way into getting the opportunities and getting approached by clients.
[00:12:04] Eduardo Paiz: The market is much more digital. So in the States, you might get approached because they found you online and they might just trust you for your credentials and invite you into that process. Whereas in Latin America, the market is not ready to open up like that to just a digital reference. They would want someone to, to refer you to get a, get a, get a direct referral or a indirect referral from this lawyer.
[00:12:32] Eduardo Paiz: And you’re more willing to give the opportunity, like to your, here we go, your, your, your, your bed table lawyer, like the one you always work with to figure out a new different practice area, rather than just go with someone that’s more specialized. That you found online. I don’t know if I explained myself there.
[00:12:54] Eduardo Paiz: Well,
[00:12:54] Steve Fretzin: yeah, you did you did the the here’s an interesting question Follow up on this culturally when someone in Latin America So let’s say that you get a seat at the table in Latin America and they don’t want to do business with the lawyer They’re going to go a different direction for a variety of reasons.
[00:13:10] Steve Fretzin: How do they say, do they just say, no, we’re not going with you? Do they ghost them? Do they, I mean, in the U S we say, I’ll think about it, which we know is the kiss of death. Like I’ll think about it means no, but that’s not what we say in America. We want to avoid, you know, confrontation and we want to avoid, you know, disappointing somebody.
[00:13:28] Steve Fretzin: So we just say, we’ll think about it. And then we ghost them. How has it done? Is that, is that similar in Latin America?
[00:13:34] Eduardo Paiz: I would say that changes to a degree, depending on which country of Latin America we’re talking about. Okay. If you’re thinking, if we’re talking about Mexico, Colombia, Chile, probably the more, well, I don’t want to talk about Brazil.
[00:13:49] Eduardo Paiz: I don’t know that market very well, but I would, I would think Brazil also. The more mature markets would be more direct.
[00:13:56] Steve Fretzin: Okay.
[00:13:57] Eduardo Paiz: They would probably go and just tell you, look, we’re not, not this time. Let’s see if in the future, but in smaller markets, the smaller markets, like in Guatemala, Costa Rica perhaps Peru, Dominican Republic, you aren’t going to probably run into this lawyer at a wedding, at a, at a, at a business function somewhere in the, in the, in the high school of your kids.
[00:14:23] Eduardo Paiz: So you’re going to try and do that very, very softly, very easily. And you might not give, not give a straight no answer and ever.
[00:14:36] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, okay. And here, you know, I have a friend who does some coaching in Japan and in Japan, they don’t say, I’ll think about it. They say, that sounds difficult. So when you say, hey, let’s work together and let’s do this and then it will send you a proposal.
[00:14:50] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, you know, what do you think? So yeah, that sounds difficult. And when you hear that, that’s them saying no, but but in a very nice way because they’re very polite. So you won’t
[00:15:00] Eduardo Paiz: come, you won’t get straight, a straight up nose in Latin America. Okay. Okay. Yeah. You’re more, you’re most likely to get ghosted.
[00:15:07] Eduardo Paiz: Yeah. And then to receive a direct no.
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[00:16:55] Steve Fretzin: Locally at fretzin, we use Get Staffed Up for Marketing Person and you know how good our marketing is. Learn [email protected] slash be that lawyer. I mean, I try to train. Attorneys to go after the no, at least to understand why it’s a no and try to get someone to be honest. And so like, for example, at the beginning of a meeting, I might teach a lawyer to say, look, at the end of our meeting today, Eduardo, if we feel like it’s a good fit, we want to proceed forward and take next steps.
[00:17:25] Steve Fretzin: Let’s coordinate that before we get off the call. On the other hand, if you or I don’t feel that it’s a good fit, what I would really appreciate is if we could just be honest with each other. Say why it’s not a good fit and go go our separate ways. We could stay friends But are you open to that type of an honest type of conversation and the person will almost always say no in the u.
[00:17:43] Steve Fretzin: s The person will almost always say yes Which doesn’t mean that that will actually happen at the end, but at least it allows us to bring it back and say, you know, Hey, we had agreed that we were going to be honest with each other and kind of just call a spade a spade are, you know, is there a reason, you know, can you just share with me what’s going on?
[00:18:00] Steve Fretzin: Oh, I don’t have the money or I don’t have this, or I don’t have that, or there’s another decision maker or whatever, but at least what we’re trying to do is get to the honest truth and getting some upfront commitment to that point. At least in the States, I’m saying that, that works really, really well. So much better than just, just dealing with the think about it’s in the maybes and I’ll get back to you.
[00:18:19] Eduardo Paiz: Yeah. I can’t think in the top of my head right now of five lawyers I could convince to start a conversation like that.
[00:18:28] Steve Fretzin: I, you know, it’s, there’s, it’s way too straight forward. Yes. Right. Well, the goal of a lot of what I’m trying to teach are sales free methodologies where it’s mostly per it’s, it’s generally permission based.
[00:18:40] Steve Fretzin: So I’m giving you like a piece of a system that I’m teaching where it’s all about me asking you, is that okay? Are you all right? Can we do this? Can we go this way? Are you open to that? So that the person will agree because it makes sense and get buy in, but again, that’s got to be done in such a, a tender, gentle way that it’s not going to come across either as a process or as anything other than, you know, conversational.
[00:19:07] Eduardo Paiz: Well, you see, now we, we reached a, a, a, a culture, an important cultural difference right now. You see how in the States, you’re more straightforward, we’re talking business, we’re talking business. If you get a meeting like that in Latin America with someone you want as a client, how I would approach it first is very soft, empathic questions.
[00:19:30] Eduardo Paiz: How’s your family? What do you like to do? Like go around the bush a lot before even talking business to try and actually build a relationship.
[00:19:38] Steve Fretzin: Right, right, right. And I apologize. So I was giving a piece of, of a puzzle that’s 20 pieces long, but you spend time building rapport, building relationship, asking about their kids.
[00:19:47] Steve Fretzin: How was your trip to Spain? You go through all of that, and then I would transition to, you know, Eduardo, to make the, you know, if you’re open to this, in order to make the best use of our time, I thought it would really make sense to sort of set up a game plan for us. Is that okay? You would say yes, because you want to make the best use of your time, and then I would follow a series of other points to kind of get the game plan set.
[00:20:08] Steve Fretzin: And what I shared was a piece of that. So, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love
[00:20:12] Eduardo Paiz: it. No, I love it. I love it. The only thing I would do different in Latin America is that I would probably split that conversation to a second or a third indirection. Okay. We are not awesome. It’s not that we disrespect, but we are not as aware.
[00:20:35] Eduardo Paiz: I don’t want to take much of your time, etc We’re not like, okay, right, right. It’s too maybe too structured. Yeah. Yeah, so I will move it to a second or a third Meeting. Okay. Okay to start established like talk business.
[00:20:50] Steve Fretzin: Wow, that’s really so yeah You got to spend maybe a couple meetings building relationship getting to know each other You Before you can get down to a business conversations, what it sounds like in some instances that that that’s at that depth
[00:21:03] Eduardo Paiz: that serious.
[00:21:04] Eduardo Paiz: Yes,
[00:21:05] Steve Fretzin: we would do it in 2 or 3 direction. Wow, that’s really good to know, really good to know, but but let’s talk about things that may be universally true. And this is going back to what we shared at the very beginning about the importance of business development. Maybe there’s no difference between the states in Latin America in this, but.
[00:21:21] Steve Fretzin: Are attorneys in Latin America compensated properly and and did they make business development a big part of their growth plan for their future? Or is that something like in the states, 80% of attorneys avoid it, like to plague?
[00:21:37] Eduardo Paiz: All right, so we have to talk about different markets within Latin America right now.
[00:21:42] Eduardo Paiz: Okay. Okay. I would say, and I apologize, I’m kind of
[00:21:44] Steve Fretzin: blobbing
[00:21:44] Eduardo Paiz: it all together. No, it’s okay. It’s okay. It, it’s basically two markets like the. Bigger countries and the smaller countries, we can call it like that. All right. I would say that it works similar to states in, in, in countries that have a more mature legal market, such as Mexico, Colombia, and Chile.
[00:22:05] Eduardo Paiz: But for the rest of the markets, you do grow depending on your book of business. But there are, the systems are not there yet in most of the firms to keep you there when you actually have developed that book of business.
[00:22:22] Steve Fretzin: Maybe like they haven’t set up a compensation plan that, that every, that like there’s no, there’s a lack of transparency.
[00:22:27] Steve Fretzin: No one really knows what it is. And I mean, that’s still done here in the States a little bit, but it’s getting less, less
[00:22:33] Eduardo Paiz: Prevalent, sort of like that. So what ends up ends up happening is that we have a lot of fragmentation in those markets. Because when the lawyer actually starts building their own book of business, they have certain aspirations, let’s call it like that, that probably they got from movies or from watching suits, but the, but the structures in the law firms are not there yet.
[00:22:58] Eduardo Paiz: So they end up saying, you know what, I’m just going to go. Across the street and open up my own law firm.
[00:23:04] Steve Fretzin: That’s so, so instead, yeah, so, so that’s, that’s how they get there. That’s how they get away from a bad, a bad environment or bad culture in a firm. Is they just going to go up and start their own?
[00:23:15] Eduardo Paiz: Yeah. Most that more likely what happens in the, in the more developed markets, they might transition to to another law firm as, as big as as theirs. Okay. But they are not it’s not that hard for them to open up shop. Okay. Well, it’s not like you’re getting out of a. Queen Emanuel or Greenberg Trorig or Hogan Lovell that you need to go to a structure like that to even be able to service your book of business.
[00:23:40] Eduardo Paiz: Here you could start a team and service your book of business with a much smaller team. But I would say that in Latin America, we still have a long way to go, not in establishing the compensation plans based on origination, but actually being able to track them and live up to them. I don’t know. I don’t know how to say this.
[00:24:03] Eduardo Paiz: Maybe they don’t have the right software, the right technology. Comply with them. I think it, I don’t, I wouldn’t say it’s technology. It’s a, it’s a mindset problem. In a lot of the, a lot of the law firms, there’s a lot of very good law firms that have been doing it great, but there are some that grew from one founding partner that was very good at what he did.
[00:24:26] Eduardo Paiz: And now that he has to share with everyone, it’s very difficult for him to share. Or his son is a lawyer. His grandson is a lawyer. And they start seeing the law firm like it was a factory or something that they could inherit. So it’s very difficult for the other lawyers that are building books of business to actually bring them to the firm and be properly, not only compensated, but properly recognized within the, within the table of owner.
[00:24:56] Eduardo Paiz: Yeah.
[00:24:58] Steve Fretzin: Well, it sounds like, yeah, it does, it does sound, it does sound like, yeah, but it sounds like you’re, like, it is a little bit behind the states and there was a time where, you know, it was the, the egomaniac you know, single rainmaking managing partner storming around the halls, barking orders, and, and, and everyone just did the bidding of that managing partner, usually a white guy.
[00:25:18] Steve Fretzin: And there aren’t a lot of people that want to work or at least stay at a firm like that. They’re going to realize it’s, you know, the, the unemployment here in the States for lawyers is like 0. 04%. Like it’s nothing, there’s no unemployed attorneys that want to work. And now it’s a matter of, of can attorneys find a better culture, a better comp plan, a better path.
[00:25:40] Steve Fretzin: And it’s available to them if they want. Now, Is it better if they have a book of business to go get the money and go get the, the better culture and go name their deal? Yeah, 100%. But it’s, it’s interesting that lawyers in both, you know, North and South all are starting to recognize the importance of that, of that book of business.
[00:26:03] Eduardo Paiz: Well, and the dynamics are the same. If if you have clients, if you have the ability to bring in clients. You are going to be better compensated. You are going to have more power at the table.
[00:26:15] Steve Fretzin: Yeah.
[00:26:15] Eduardo Paiz: So, the dynamics of the legal market, I would say, are the same. Okay. It’s just the options of what do you do when you’re not comfortable where you are because the compensation is not right.
[00:26:27] Eduardo Paiz: Here, it’s much easier to go. Cross the street and open up shop and it’s a, it’s a way that a lot of partners end up doing it.
[00:26:34] Steve Fretzin: And one of the problems with the states and people doing that is the fear of being an entrepreneur, the fear of being on your own. I think there’s, there’s a certain quality that lawyers have to have to have the guts to go and do that.
[00:26:47] Steve Fretzin: And it sounds like in Latin America and many countries, it’s more, maybe more innate that that’s how things are done and that’s how you get ahead and they just deal with the outcome of, of that decision.
[00:26:59] Eduardo Paiz: It’s not that, I don’t know, I wouldn’t say it’s more innate. But if you have one good client, sometimes that one good client is going to tell you, look, you know what?
[00:27:07] Eduardo Paiz: I’m going to help you. Just go put on your own law firm. I’m going to help you out.
[00:27:11] Steve Fretzin: Okay.
[00:27:11] Eduardo Paiz: And that’s enough to start. Right. Okay. That’s enough to start. But that’s
[00:27:16] Steve Fretzin: still, but that’s still, that’s still not enough for many people to say they’re going to open up shop. And there’s a lot, there’s a lot of anxiety that, that many lawyers have that work at big firms or even work in the mid market that going out on their own.
[00:27:28] Steve Fretzin: I mean that there’s. Right. Right. You know, the management, there’s the, the software, and there’s the IT, there’s the insurance, there’s the overhead, there’s the, I mean, there’s just so many moving parts. It’s easier now than it’s ever been, but I just, I’m just putting out from my perspective on, on attorneys in the states, many of them would be much, are much happier working.
[00:27:46] Steve Fretzin: And doing their job than opening up their own
[00:27:50] Eduardo Paiz: deal, perhaps, but you know what, it’s also easier here. You don’t have those insurance problems. You don’t have, you don’t have huge amount of bureaucratic procedures that you have to go through in the States. So it’s, it’s much easier to set up shop.
[00:28:06] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Well, very interesting. Let’s, let’s transition. I know we are collaborating you and I and your team on, uh, young partners accelerator that’s coming to Chicago in what is it? September? Yes. September. Do you want to just share a little bit about that? Yeah. Do you want to just share a little bit about that?
[00:28:23] Eduardo Paiz: All right. So I have a very close relationship with Sharon Abrahams, which is The co founder of Young Partners Accelerator and the executive director of the program. And for, for many years, we’ve been friends for many years and we’ve discussed this because we have this a similar program for lawyers from Latin America to train them into how to transition into partnerships.
[00:28:48] Eduardo Paiz: But talking to Sharon, she would say, you know what? There’s a lot of law firms in the United States that don’t train their partners when they promote them. We weren’t aware of that. We thought that every law firm in the United States was training their
[00:29:03] Steve Fretzin: partners. You should have called me. I could have
[00:29:05] Eduardo Paiz: told you.
[00:29:06] Eduardo Paiz: And, and that’s how the whole idea of the Young Partners Accelerator came to be. We want our, our mission is to help lawyers Be happy when they’re named partners. Yeah. Have the right tools so that the, that next part of their careers. It’s actually fulfilling for them. It’s a very daunting when you, when you’re named partner and you have no idea what your different roles are going to be because they change substantially, but they should change substantially.
[00:29:40] Eduardo Paiz: If you want to do it, right. Then you have business development expectations, expectations about, you have no idea how to do it. Right. That’s why I’m so happy that you are going to be with us to train all of them. There, there’s a, there’s a lot of things and there’s just one that’s the most important and Sharon talks a lot about this is that you’re transitioning to partner where you don’t develop an ownership mentality and if you never develop an ownership mentality, you’re never going to feel as a partner and then you’re never going to perform up to the standards of being partner.
[00:30:14] Eduardo Paiz: But if no one ever tells you that, how to develop that ownership mentality, how to engage your mentors. This, this, this guy or this girl has been your boss for 20 years and suddenly you’re their partner. How do you engage with them? Or the funniest one that I heard in one of our programs at the Young Partners Accelerator last year, one of the lawyers comes and says, look, I was seeing your partner last year.
[00:30:38] Eduardo Paiz: And every Thursday we would go have beers with all the senior partners. Now I’m a partner, can I still go? Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. I mean if you’re comfortable with it. Yeah. But those questions arise. So at a moment that Hollywood has told us that has, that is like the epitome of, Of being a lawyer becomes a nightmare if you’re not trained for it, that’s what the Young Partners Accelerator does, prepares you for the rest of your career as a partner.
[00:31:08] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I mean it’s absolutely critical and that’s why we’re collaborating in We’re going to put all the details for that event in the show notes to make sure everybody has them. Let’s wrap up with our game changing book, though, Eduardo. New Strategic Selling. Now, I know the book Strategic Selling.
[00:31:24] Steve Fretzin: This is, I’m sure, an add on to that or the next version?
[00:31:27] Eduardo Paiz: Yeah, yeah, I guess so. Okay. I don’t remember reading the first one. It’s been around, I think it’s been
[00:31:34] Steve Fretzin: around over 20 years or something like that. Strategic selling. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Really great stuff. Eduardo, if people wanna get in touch with you, they wanna learn more about the Young Partners Accelerator, the retreat in Chicago, what’s, what’s the best way for them to reach out or website or thing to share?
[00:31:48] Eduardo Paiz: Go to the website. It’s YP. Accelerator. com and we can talk through there. The program is a great program for anyone that feels that they need to know a little bit more about their partnership role. Want to feel that they were trained for that next part of their careers. That has to be the most fulfilling one.
[00:32:10] Eduardo Paiz: So you need to get training for that. Awesome.
[00:32:13] Steve Fretzin: Right on. Yeah. And I’ll be there with with Bell’s on helping to teach sales, free selling and. Make sure everybody’s walking away with lots and lots of new, new habits and good takeaways there. Want to take a moment to just thank our wonderful sponsors, Lawmatics, PymCon coming up in September and Get Staffed Up, all great friends of the show.
[00:32:31] Steve Fretzin: And Eduardo, thanks, man. It’s nice that we can get you on the show and talk a little bit about some of the cultural differences and the importance of BD and, and, and, and different parts of the country. So thanks so much, and I’m looking forward to meeting you in person when you come into town.
[00:32:43] Eduardo Paiz: Well, thank you Steve for having me and thanks a lot for getting involved in the Young Partners Accelerator. We are very excited to have you.
[00:32:51] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Well, it’s going to be a great collaboration. I just know that. And, you know, that’s going to help people to be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker.
[00:32:59] Steve Fretzin: Take care, everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll talk again soon.
[00:33:06] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretzin. com, for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.