In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Eido Walny discuss:
- Entrepreneurial mindset in law
- Balancing personal and professional life
- Client experience and relationship management
- Mentorship and professional growth
Key Takeaways:
- A singular focus on achieving business goals ensures that all efforts are dedicated to success, with no fallback plan to divert attention.
- Focusing on doing what’s best for the business and clients will naturally lead to financial rewards, rather than chasing short-term gains.
- Ensuring clients leave just as satisfied as they were when they arrived (‘Smiles In, Smiles Out’ policy) by maintaining clear, timely communication and proactively managing expectations throughout the relationship.
- Setting aside a portion of earnings for profit ensures the business stays financially healthy while rewarding those taking the risk, without jeopardizing operations.
“We all have personalities, cultures, and other things that explain why we’re where we are and why we’re happy. And if we’re just chasing dollars, it leads to a path of unhappiness.” — Eido Walny
Read Steve’s past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://fretzin.com/blog/
Thank you to our Sponsors!
Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/
Rainmakers Roundtable: https://fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/
Episode References:
Profit First For Lawyers by RJon Robins (book)
Profit First For Lawyers by RJon Robins (podcast)
About Eido Walny: Eido M. Walny received his J.D. from Boston University School of Law in 2001, where he was Executive Articles Editor of the Boston University International Law Journal. He earned a B.A. in Political Science, with honors, from The University of Chicago. His practice focuses on estate planning, asset protection, business succession, probate, and trust administration, with additional experience in business, tax, and real estate law. He is also a national speaker, author, and expert witness on estate planning, charitable giving, and business issues. Eido founded Walny Legal Group LLC in 2011 to offer clients both high-level legal care and excellent customer service.
Connect with Eido Walny:
Website: https://walnylegal.com/
Phone: 414-751-7531
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eido-walny-jd-aep-epls-2756a5/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey listeners, I know you’re getting a ton of amazing tips from our expert guests here on the show, but keeping track of them can be a challenge. I know that. That’s why I’ve created Blogcasts, the perfect way to capture the best insights from every episode. Each Blogcast condenses an entire show into a two page summary packed with key takeaways that you can apply right away.
[00:00:21] Steve Fretzin: Head over to Fretzin. com slash blog to start reading, learning, and taking action. Let these blog casts help you on your journey to be that lawyer with Fretzin now. Enjoy the show
[00:00:35] Narrator: You’re listening to be that lawyer life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice Each episode your host author and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin Will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results Now, here’s your host Steve Fretzin
[00:00:56] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, welcome back to the be that lawyer with I hope that you’re having a wonderful day today.
[00:01:03] Steve Fretzin: We’ve got another phenomenal show plan. I, they’re all phenomenal, but I can tell you, you know, this is going to be the most phenomenal and you can agree with me and we’re going to have some fun though. Right?
[00:01:12] Eido Walny: Absolutely. Always a pleasure to talk to you, Steve.
[00:01:14] Steve Fretzin: Awesome, man. You should meet my podcast promoter Doug Sandler.
[00:01:18] Steve Fretzin: He’s a big car guy, but he’s, he’s like, he’s got a, I think he actually has a podcast about Mustangs, like the whole show is about Mustangs.
[00:01:25] Eido Walny: Nice.
[00:01:26] Steve Fretzin: Yeah,
[00:01:27] Eido Walny: I’m a big fan of cars.
[00:01:28] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Well, maybe I’ll make that in road for you Connections happening here on the be that lawyer podcast everybody right away. So wonderful We’re going to start off with the quote of the show now I feel like this is from a movie, but you’ve been saying it I guess for a while So what we’ll give you credit failure is not an option.
[00:01:44] Steve Fretzin: So welcome to the show, you know, and also Why is that your favorite quote?
[00:01:49] Eido Walny: Thanks steve? I mean, you know, everybody’s got quotes that they heard from someone else and what I have found is You For my life philosophy, I find that people spend a lot of time with contingency planning and what happens if my plan fails, what’s my secondary plan, my tertiary plan.
[00:02:06] Eido Walny: To me, I want a plan and I want a plan that’s going to work and be practical and failure is not an option. So I remember back when I started my firm in May of 2011, My wife is a school teacher and I know your wife is a teacher as well, you know, and so you can appreciate their schedules are extremely structured.
[00:02:23] Eido Walny: They have unions, you know, they know that their clients, the students are coming in like clockwork. Every year at a certain time on a certain date and they’re going to stay and you can plan all your vacations. There’s certainly downsides to the career, but it is very structured. And so when I was going to set out and leave my gigantic law firm and start my practice she said, well, what if this doesn’t work?
[00:02:47] Eido Walny: And I said, Listen, I’ve been doing this for 10 years. Failure to me is not an option. I know what I’m doing. I understand the business. I will do everything that needs to be done so that I don’t fail because I don’t have a secondary plan. I don’t have a plan B. We’re going to do this. And so I put in all the time, all the effort, you know, initially, like any entrepreneur can appreciate, you know, they think that you started a business and all of a sudden, the first thing you do is go on vacation.
[00:03:12] Eido Walny: It’s the opposite. You know, I was living in the office because I knew that we had Rent that we had to meet. I needed to get paid. We had bills. And so to me, I put every effort into not failing, but I carry that through to everything that I do because I want to make sure that the plans that I have in place are simply going to be accomplished.
[00:03:32] Eido Walny: And so failure is just not an option.
[00:03:35] Steve Fretzin: And again, there’s some small failures that we can learn from in life, right? I mean, you put a nail through your hand, you know, or maybe I don’t put my hand so close to the nail gun. Right. But then there’s, you know, your business on the line, your career on the line, your, you know, healthcare on the line, whatever it might be where we just can’t, there’s no risk involved.
[00:03:52] Steve Fretzin: Like we have to do it. We have to get through that. So I love that that, and again, I think there’s a lot of people listening that can take that take away from that and say, look, you know, I’ve got to change job and failure and getting the right place for myself is not like, you know, I’ve got to make this work and the more you can do to plan and execute and accomplish the better, really great stuff.
[00:04:10] Steve Fretzin: So I feel like when I’m introducing you, you know, It’s like, you’re like a Dos Equis commercial, like the most interesting man in the world. We met and I was like, I have to interview this guy. He’s done, he’s doing more than anyone I know in so many different areas that are maybe even like unrelated. But I would love for every, for you to give your background, you know, Walny, everybody is the managing partner of Walny Legal Group and give us your Reader’s Digest short version of like, of where, you know, how you came to be and, and some of the things that you’re involved in.
[00:04:35] Steve Fretzin: Cause it’s super interesting.
[00:04:37] Eido Walny: Yeah, so my quickie bio when I talk, talk nationally as I I’m the founding partner, managing partner of my law firm, you know, boutique national estate planning group with amazing clients all over the country. I’m also the president slash mayor of my town. I have a cufflinks business.
[00:04:55] Eido Walny: I am a consultant for a financial advisory consultant company out of California. I just until recently was the editor in chief of the national estate planning journal. I serve on a number of national boards. I restore classic cars generally at night and on weekends. The list goes on and on and on. I mean, I really find myself to have diverse interests and I prioritize things.
[00:05:19] Eido Walny: You know, I, I may not sleep as much, but I’ve never missed a child’s performance. I’ve never missed a parent teacher conference. I just, I don’t watch a lot of TV, but I prioritize things in life to get the most out of a day that I possibly can.
[00:05:32] Steve Fretzin: And I think we can all learn from that. You know, it’s like, sometimes we feel so stressed and overwhelmed with.
[00:05:37] Steve Fretzin: Just the billable hour, just certain particular things and how important it is to really become a student of the game of time management or become, you know, someone that has the ability to prioritize life and things that are important and then work through to get the most out of it. Cause you really only got one shot at this thing called life.
[00:05:56] Steve Fretzin: So we need to make the most of it. We don’t want to, you know, live with regret or feel that, you know, hey, we’re now we’re in our seventies and we wish we had done all these things.
[00:06:04] Eido Walny: 100%. I mean, I, everything is a balance, right? I think sometimes the pendulum swings too far to one direction or the other. I don’t want to be chained to my desk.
[00:06:13] Eido Walny: I don’t want to never work and pretend like money’s going to magically rain from the sky, but I do want to enjoy the things that I’m doing. I do have diverse interests. I find that those diverse interests feed into one another. You know, we were just chatting at the beginning of the podcast about, you know, connections with car people.
[00:06:30] Eido Walny: Our people are great clients. Those people know other people and all of a sudden sort of one hand starts feeding the other. And I love that stuff. That’s fantastic. And it makes life so interesting.
[00:06:42] Steve Fretzin: One thing that I, we talked about in the, in our previous conversation was how. You know, quotes like, you know, failure is not an option.
[00:06:50] Steve Fretzin: And I’m putting out, you know, Fretzinisms, unique things that I come up with and put out. And then there’s, you know, millions of quotes from successful and famous people that we can follow and take the wisdom from what they’re saying and try to help us lead our lives down a positive path. Let’s go through some of the quotes that you sort of live by to accomplish everything you’ve accomplished that I think would be helpful to my audience.
[00:07:10] Steve Fretzin: Where would you like to start here?
[00:07:12] Eido Walny: Man, let’s start with the quote from, you know, early 2001 or I guess late 2001, early 2002 with regard to my mentor at my first big firm, you know, so the back story here is I went to law school in the late 1990s, early 2000s. That was kind of a crazy go go time in the legal and business community.
[00:07:35] Eido Walny: It was the dot com boom. Our salaries would literally go up while we were sitting in class, right? We get an email at the time and, and they would just tell us, Hey, by the way, your starting salary just went up before we even showed up for our first day of work. So ultimately we graduate, go through the summer.
[00:07:51] Eido Walny: My first day of real work, meaning showing up at the office in my suit. Was September 4th, 2001. And so that was a great first week, but the second week started a little brutal, you know, September 11th happens even here in Milwaukee. People were freaking out. It automatically changed the business and legal dynamics.
[00:08:12] Eido Walny: Reality changed. I mean, it’s still different now than it was my first day of work. And so one of the things that the firm I was at at the time did was assign us mentors. And my mentor had some interesting advice at the time, which I’ve forgotten, but there’s one thing I’ve never forgotten. And he said to me at the time, you know, this firm can take away basically everything from you.
[00:08:33] Eido Walny: They can take away your salary, your assistant, your office, everything. There are two things that the firm can never take away from you that no one can ever take away from you. And those two things are your knowledge base and your contacts. And that is what you should always spend time on and develop because those will always be marketable skills, wherever you’re at, whenever you’re doing it.
[00:08:57] Eido Walny: And those will make you important. And, you know, when I first arrived in Milwaukee, I knew one person and now I’ve gotten to the point where, you know, I’m seen as a hub for connecting people, not only within the city, but also nationally. If you need a crazy connection in Fargo, North Dakota or, you know, Colorado Springs, not only have I met someone there, but I’ve probably had lunch with them, spent face to face time with them.
[00:09:24] Eido Walny: You have made it my business to try to connect people much like you have and that served me really well. And then of course you want to be an expert in your craft. You know, I’m not a master of all things, but I want to be really good at the thing that I do because this is what I’m making my, you know, life building my life around and it’s empowered me to do other things.
[00:09:44] Eido Walny: You know, people expect that you’re going to be good at the thing that you’re doing, right? When you go to a steak restaurant, people just assume that the steak is going to be good. The difference between a good steak restaurant and a great steak restaurant has nothing to do with the steak and everything to do with everything else.
[00:10:00] Eido Walny: Because clients assume that that product is going to be good. And so you never want to let them down. And I’ve built the last, you know, 25 years of my career since hearing that advice, that bit of advice, and actually just recently reached out to that mentor who I haven’t talked to in quite some time and thanked him because I, I don’t think I’d have the career that I have now without that word, you know, that word of wisdom.
[00:10:21] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and of course, this relates back to, you know, how lawyers control their careers, how they have the freedom that they desire. And if you don’t have your own relationship, your own business, you’re at the will and the whim of, of the firm you work for, or the ability to not, you know, have the ability to make the right decisions for you and your family.
[00:10:41] Steve Fretzin: So this is right in line with what I’ve been saying without a mentor, just, just knowing the legal industry that, yes, you have to be great at what you do. Number one, you can’t suck. Because you’re not gonna keep clients if you suck and you’re not doing anybody any good. And then the second is owning those relationships, whether you’re on your own or whether you’re with a firm.
[00:10:59] Steve Fretzin: And I think, unfortunately, not, maybe the people that listen to this show, but there’s still so many lawyers that don’t realize this or they realize it, but they’re not willing to make that extra effort. To develop those relationships. And so then what do they really have? They have a job. They’re maybe making great living, but it could be temporary.
[00:11:17] Eido Walny: I mean, listen, so it is always a mistake regardless of whether it’s in the law or in any other profession to think of your, think that people outside of where, you know, your office are, are looking at you the same way that you’re looking at yourself. I know, I know what makes me special, but I know that the people walking down the sidewalk right now just see me as a lawyer.
[00:11:37] Eido Walny: I’m a lawyer like every other lawyer. And so to me, it’s really important to not only differentiate myself in a professional sense, but try to differentiate myself with every single contact I have with clients, prospective clients, referral sources to stand out from that crowd, because otherwise we become commoditized.
[00:11:57] Eido Walny: And then there’s no difference in me hiring you or the next person or the next person after that. And now you’re just swimming in the ocean and that is a bad place to be.
[00:12:07] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. That’s bloody. So let’s move on. What’s another quote that has sort of driven your life in a positive direction? So
[00:12:15] Eido Walny: probably about, gosh, sad to be probably around 2008, 2009.
[00:12:20] Eido Walny: I had a client who was a big manufacturer in Southern Wisconsin, and we were having a pretty interesting conversation about life. He was a very, still is a very gregarious guy. And we were talking about business and making money and being successful. And one of the things that he told me that’s really struck a nerve is that you should never do things for money.
[00:12:44] Eido Walny: Which seems counterintuitive, right? We’re all in this to make money. But the rest of his quote was, you should never do things for money. Should always let money be the reward for the good things that you do. And I think this is another trap for lawyers in particular, but business people in general, is that we always are looking for, how do I make a little bit more money?
[00:13:03] Eido Walny: Where am I leaving money on the table? And I think his point And I flushed this out with him was if you’re motivated and taking actions just to get paid, just to make a few extra dollars, what that ends up doing for you is incentivizing you to do things that probably you shouldn’t be doing because you’re chasing a dollar.
[00:13:22] Eido Walny: If you focus on what’s right, what’s good, good for you personally, good for the business, good for your clients. The money isn’t the motivation to do something. The money is the reward for the things that you did. And I found that once, I mean, that struck a nerve with me because remember, I’d spent a lot of time with big firms and big firms to me.
[00:13:43] Eido Walny: I mean, the things that I heard would make my, still make my head spin in terms of, of, you know, looking at ways to just generate revenue. And it drove me crazy because it motivated people the wrong way. But once I heard that and spoke to the clients and really marinated with that idea, I really changed my outlook on things.
[00:14:03] Eido Walny: I mean, I felt like intuitively I was kind of doing that anyway, but now I was doing in a very conscientious manner where I wasn’t motivated by the dollars. I let the dollars be the reward for the good things that I was doing. And it is amazing. His point was, if you do it, you’ll actually make more money.
[00:14:19] Eido Walny: And I have absolutely found that to be the case, which is incredible.
[00:14:23] Steve Fretzin: And the easiest example that I’ve seen recently are lawyers who are jumping ship from a firm that they actually enjoy and like and are doing well to make 25 or 30 percent more at a bigger firm, at a different firm, only to realize a year, six months to a year in, what a big mistake I made, you know, money isn’t everything.
[00:14:41] Steve Fretzin: I did it for the money and guess what? And I got burned. Then they come crawling back to their firm who probably takes them back mainly because they need them. And hopefully they left on good terms, but it’s, that’s happening. Pretty regularly. And so again, I think it’s right in line with what you’re saying.
[00:14:57] Steve Fretzin: We’ve got to do right by others and the reward comes, you know, in return tenfold.
[00:15:02] Eido Walny: I mean, this is my point earlier about the commoditization about lawyers. I mean, your point is exactly that as well, right? We look at, you know, my firm is the same as that firm, except if they pay me more, what’s the difference?
[00:15:14] Eido Walny: And you quickly realize that that’s not the case. I mean, we all have personalities and cultures and other things that are why we’re at and why we’re happy. And if we’re just chasing dollars, it leads to a path of unhappiness. I mean, for us personally, you know, we’re a boutique estate planning shop. It’s really all that we do.
[00:15:32] Eido Walny: And we’ve had a lot of people approach us and say, well, why don’t you add this practice area? Why don’t you add the service or why don’t you do this, that, or the other? And we’ve always gone back to, you know, that might make us some money in the short term, but in the long term, what it does is is help us lose our identity.
[00:15:49] Eido Walny: We may be stepping on the toes of referral sources or other partners that we do work with. And so while on face, it might help us generate more revenue in the long term. We lose who we are. We start to set off a drift in that ocean again, and it’s a bad choice for us. And so there have been some really tough conversations I’ve had knowing that me personally, I’d make a lot more money to say, no, we’re, we’re not going to do that.
[00:16:12] Eido Walny: We’re just going to walk away. We’d still like to do business with you, but we’re not going to do that in house. So we’re not going to offer that service. But I think in the long term, those decisions have been good decisions for us and for the firm. And the results speak for themselves
[00:16:27] Steve Fretzin: with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm, rankings.io prides itself on proof, not promises mentality.
[00:16:35] Steve Fretzin: The best firms hire rankings.io when they want rankings, traffic in cases other law firm marketing agencies. Can’t deliver. Get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free consultation at rankings. io today. Hey everybody, Steve Fretzin here. Man, I thought I was a good marketer, but maybe not. Lawyers have been approaching me asking, what’s the Rainmakers Roundtable?
[00:16:57] Steve Fretzin: Well, I tell them this is a special place created exclusively for rainmaking lawyers to continue their journey of prosperity. Our program is unique as every member has a significant book of business and is motivated to grow it year after year. Where else does this exist? If you’re a managing partner who’s looking to get off your lonely island and talk shop with America’s top rate makers, please go to my website, Fretzin.
[00:17:20] Steve Fretzin: com and apply for membership today. There’s a quote I think that I have that I definitely didn’t come up with, totally stolen, but I had this in my head maybe since I was in my mid twenties and it’s followed me along. And it’s right in line with what you’re saying though, you know, it’s you get what you want out of life.
[00:17:38] Steve Fretzin: By helping other people get what they need what they want out of life So like i’m gonna get what I want if i’m helping attorneys to be successful and i’m focusing on them and their success I’m going to then in return be successful in them, but also in the referrals that come in the business that’s been built and the things that come back to me, not by being greedy or being self centered, but I’m helping others knowing that, you know, and again, just being selfless, I think has a reward, especially if you do it intelligently.
[00:18:05] Steve Fretzin: Like meaning I used to try to help everybody with everything all the time. And of course you can’t do that. and have time and have a life. So I still try to help everybody, but it’s, you know, I’m in a specific area. I’m not going to help the local Avon lady or the local Amway salesman the same way. I’m going to help a local attorney or the attorney that needs help or someone that needs a vendor for something.
[00:18:24] Steve Fretzin: I think that’s kind of the difference, but again, helping others as a way to get it returned in networking that works and just in life.
[00:18:31] Eido Walny: One of the sayings that we have here in the office is don’t keep score. You know, I think, you know, especially when it comes to referrals and things like that, you know, referrals are the lifeblood of a lot of law firms.
[00:18:40] Eido Walny: And what we tend to do is say, no, John sent me one referral. So I owe him one referral. One of the things that we quickly figured out is referrals are all different and a trap for lawyers is to keep score and say, I owe them, or they owe me. Do what’s right. Serve the client best. You will match them up.
[00:19:00] Eido Walny: You will make somebody happy. And if you get good results, that’s much more important than what’s coming back or the fact that you paid someone back who you owed a favor to. Don’t look at it like that. And when you stop keeping score, first of all, you’ll be a lot happier because you won’t, you know, have this chip on your shoulder that all these people owe me something.
[00:19:19] Eido Walny: But you’ll also find that things are coming in to you from all sorts of different directions And a dollar is not worth a dollar in and out and what do I mean by that? So for us in estate planning, we get a lot of referrals from say insurance agents Well, if they refer an estate plan into us, you know, it’s very transactional We kind of do the work make a fee and we’re done But if we make a referral back to the insurance agent, you know, they’re getting premium payments You know on an annual or quarterly basis For years and years and years to come and so if an agent says to us Well, I sent you one and you sent me one and we’re even well, are we really even we’re not even at all But we don’t care because we don’t keep score What’s important to us is that we sent you a good referral and you took care of that client and that client’s happy That’s the goal You know if we make something back whether it’s from you or the next person or someone in accounting or financial services We’re We don’t care.
[00:20:14] Eido Walny: We’re all in a greater community and we’re all trying to serve the clients best. And when that happens, that’s the reward. And then if we make money at the end, it’s the money we get paid for doing good things. It’s not why we do those things.
[00:20:28] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I guess the only caveat I would add to that is because I love everything you just said, just be careful of takers.
[00:20:34] Steve Fretzin: You know, people that are just using you and just trying to take from you and they’re not, they’re not in a position to reciprocate or they don’t want to reciprocate. So just, you know, it’s not keeping score, but it’s just kind of keeping your head on a swivel. And recognizing, you know, Hey, this insurance person is just working me, you know, give me your, you know, there was a time, I don’t know if you remember, this is going back to maybe the 2000s when financial planners, I’m not going to name the name of the company, but they would, they would meet with you for the initial meeting, just to network.
[00:21:01] Steve Fretzin: And they’d be like, can I have 10 names of your family and friends, then they would go and hound them. And it was like, what did I, you know, did I just give them some names? Now I’m getting these angry calls. So just be careful of the salespeople and the takers that exist out there too. And, and leverage relationships the way they’re supposed to be
[00:21:18] Eido Walny: leveraged.
[00:21:18] Eido Walny: I mean, I know exactly what firm you’re talking about. Couldn’t agree, couldn’t agree more. You know, it’s just like anything in life there, you know, there are people with bad motivations or selfish motivations. And so you should always be aware of that. Don’t let yourself be victimized. But I think there are a lot of good professionals out there, good lawyers, good other service providers.
[00:21:38] Eido Walny: And so obviously you want to surround yourself with those good people, you know, the people asking you for a few names and whatnot, they’re not going to keep coming back to you because eventually you’ll figure out like. You know, stop hounding my brother. He doesn’t want to do work with you, but the people who are trying to build good referral relationships with you or build a team where they can better service their clients.
[00:21:58] Eido Walny: I mean, those are really good circles to start orbiting
[00:22:01] Steve Fretzin: around. Yep. Awesome. All right. I think we may have time for one more good quote. So what else you got in your back pocket?
[00:22:07] Eido Walny: Man, I don’t know that I’ve got another good quote in the pocket, but I, you know, one of the policies that we always have in the office is that we have this thing called the smiles in smiles out policy.
[00:22:17] Eido Walny: And I think this is something lawyers in particular should always strive towards, which is, you know, when we’re first meeting with that client, everything tends to be really jovial and happy, right? The clients generally, you know, unless it’s a divorce or litigation, they’re coming in and they’re generally, you know, especially for us with estate planning, they’re happy to meet you.
[00:22:34] Eido Walny: They’re happy to talk about the work. It’s a very cordial relationship. And I think oftentimes over the course of that relationship, that smile starts to burn away, especially when calls aren’t getting returned in a timely manner, emails aren’t being returned in a timely manner, invoices start piling up.
[00:22:52] Eido Walny: And so one of the things we have here in the office is what we call the smiles and smiles out policy, which is that we want to see the same smile. The last time we meet with you that we did the first time we met with you. And so how do we do that? It’s by being timely with. Return calls return emails if the client needs something, even if I don’t have the answer.
[00:23:12] Eido Walny: I acknowledge the client I say hey i’m going to get back to you by a certain date I get back to them by that date if I believe that an invoice is more than they’re expecting I try to preempt it either by writing a little bit down or contacting them and explaining what’s happened or why this is happening You know, I think all too often people in the legal services field believe that just getting to that engagement and starting to have some invoices paid, that’s the goal.
[00:23:37] Eido Walny: And for us, that’s not the goal because, you know, if the client had a bad experience or paid you way too much, I think the statistic is you’re seven times more likely to complain about something than you are to give someone a compliment. And so if the client had a bad experience, regardless of what it was, you know, so and so didn’t return calls they ignored me.
[00:23:55] Eido Walny: Clients oftentimes feel ignored. Even if you’re not really ignoring them, the bills were out of control. Believe me, they’re going to let people know, and you will develop the reputation of being the person who doesn’t return phone calls or charges way too much. And that’s not to say we’re cheap, but I want to say that, you know, I want clients to understand the value that they’re getting.
[00:24:15] Eido Walny: And when we. Absolutely crush it in terms of the customer experience. Again, going back to that, the client assumes that the work is good, but there’s a lot more to the overall experience than just the work. And I think lawyers, doctors, a lot of other professions, they lose sight of the overall client experience.
[00:24:34] Eido Walny: And we try really, really hard not to have that happen. And, and frankly, I mean, for us to go toe to toe with some of the biggest firms in the country, because we’re a tiny boutique estate planning shop based out of Milwaukee, A lot of that has had to do with the overall client experience. Because again, I, I can’t make the trust that I draft make you a sandwich.
[00:24:55] Eido Walny: It is what it is. And it’s the same thing that any other firm can draft who knows what they’re doing, but where we really crush a lot of our competitors is the overall client experience. And when those people are happy and tell a couple of their other friends that they’re happy, especially some of the nice clients that we’ve got, that’s what’s really driven business to.
[00:25:13] Eido Walny: Amazing levels where I’m super happy.
[00:25:16] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I mean it’s hard to fail when you’re providing a high level of service and people are walking away from paying a big fee or whatever it might be with a smile on their face because they know it was handled well. I’m assuming that there are some expectations that you set up with clients to help manage them and manage the way that the work gets done with their, the way their brains are functioning.
[00:25:37] Steve Fretzin: Can you speak to that for a moment?
[00:25:39] Eido Walny: Yeah, I mean we always try to have conversations on the front end about what a client can expect and what my expectations are I find that You know, my expectations of myself and my own people are generally higher than what the client is going to expect I mean I with technology today regardless of where you’re at you can return a phone call you can return an email Almost anywhere you are at any time I mean, I recently took a trip overseas and I knew what the time zone difference was, you know There are some clients I can push off a little bit.
[00:26:10] Eido Walny: I don’t ignore them. I let them know. Hey, i’m not available Can we talk on x and x date? You But I had some really important clients I needed to get a hold of that happened to be in Japan at the time, and I would just set up the calls later in the afternoon here in the U. S. so that it was early morning in Japan.
[00:26:25] Eido Walny: Those people had no idea I was actually in Japan because my phone just rang through over there. This wasn’t every client, but if it was important, their expectations were met because, you know, I could find a few minutes to talk to them and to leave this concern. You know, I think boundaries are important, but my boundaries and expectations of myself.
[00:26:45] Eido Walny: And again, knowing that’s a lot of clients just look at us as a commodity. I want to make sure that every opportunity I’ve got in my lawyers have to impress the client we’re taking advantage of, but sure that has to be managed so that I’m not getting phone calls at two o’clock in the morning.
[00:26:59] Steve Fretzin: Well, yeah, not all phone calls need to go to you.
[00:27:01] Steve Fretzin: I mean, there are, you know, you’ve got people under you that could feel those calls and handle those questions and it, unless it’s something. Like mission critical top level, you know, in your way, you don’t get those calls. You’ve got, you’ve set those expectations and set up the team to handle it so that you don’t have to, and you can be away without, you know, having, you know, disruptions every day.
[00:27:22] Eido Walny: For sure. And that’s a skill that I, I’m also getting better at, but, you know, I think lawyers have a propensity to, if they know that a call is going to be unpleasant, they let it go to voicemail. And I don’t do that generally, because I know that if the client’s upset, first of all, generally, I know why they’re upset.
[00:27:38] Eido Walny: You know, if I let them stew or I let this sort of bounce around in their head more and now they think, you know, I’m, I’m trying to avoid them. The situation gets worse. And so I tend to just pick up that call. First of all, picking up the call sometimes will just diffuse the call itself because they weren’t expecting to talk to you, but engage with them, hear them out.
[00:27:57] Eido Walny: If there’s a solution, find the solution. It’s incredible how much, you know, I can talk angry people off the ledge just by chatting with them. They want to be heard. And again, I think lawyers tend to hide from that and let things go to voicemail and let it stew for a few days. Don’t do that. It’s a mistake.
[00:28:15] Steve Fretzin: Well, so many great life experiences and things that you’re sharing today on the show. And I hope everyone listening is, you know, taking notes and taking, you know, heeding the words of wisdom that that are being shared here today. We do like to wrap up with a game changing book, game changing podcast, certainly.
[00:28:30] Steve Fretzin: You know, we’d love to hear if there’s one or two that you think are good, or if you just want to mention one that, you know, when maybe this one, you know, this be that lawyer is pretty good. But any thoughts on that? Just to maybe share a little bit of that with the team, with everybody listening.
[00:28:42] Eido Walny: So I grew up in an entrepreneurial background and my dad owns a business, my two grandfathers own businesses.
[00:28:47] Eido Walny: And so I sort of grew up with this entrepreneurial mindset. And when I first started the firm, you know, I always looked at myself coming last. I wanted to make sure that my employees were well taken care of. My clients had everything they needed. We had whatever equipment and supplies we ever needed. And I found myself putting myself last pretty often.
[00:29:06] Eido Walny: And when you do that, You know, you get to the end of the year and maybe profitability was not where you thought it would be because you’ve spent more money trying to accommodate all these other people. And you as the entrepreneur who took all the risks and, and pull a lot of things on yourself, you feel like you shorted yourself and about probably close to 10 years ago.
[00:29:25] Eido Walny: Now, maybe a little bit less, a good friend of mine in East coast, near Virginia, turned me on to profit first. So profit first is this idea that, you know, every month you take a little bit off the table and put it in an account and that’s sort of your profitability for yourself as the business owner. We don’t follow the formula exactly, but it’s a really interesting idea and concept.
[00:29:47] Eido Walny: That’s really changed the way that we approach some of the business here. And it’s, you know, the basic fundamental of it is if you carve a little bit of way and put it aside and don’t look at it and don’t think about it. It’s as if it doesn’t exist and you’ll compensate for the few percentages that aren’t in your bank account.
[00:30:02] Eido Walny: And it’s amazing how that’s true. I mean, we did a version of that, not really knowing that we were doing it, but now we’ve done it a little bit more formulaically. And so, I mean, let’s change the way we do some of our business and really as an entrepreneur to put yourself first, at least a little bit. Has been fantastic because we do, we take risks and we put a lot of work in and those entrepreneurs need to get rewarded because it can be really tough.
[00:30:25] Eido Walny: And I would throw that out there. Take a read. It’s really interesting.
[00:30:28] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Check it out. I had our John Robbins on the show. Not so long ago. He’s got profit first for lawyers. I think there might be a podcast of the same name. But ultimately, yeah, I mean, look, you know, we’re in this to help people. We’re also in this to make a living and, you know, we got to pay for kids and we got to pay for all the stuff in our lives.
[00:30:43] Steve Fretzin: So been in great new cars, right. That you can put together and rebuild great old cars, old cars, old cars. He asked me a big a big Porsche guy had a couple of the like 1988, 1989 Porsches, like those used ones, man, they were fun. I didn’t fix them up or anything. I just drove them, but it was, Oh, that’s why they were
[00:31:00] Eido Walny: fun.
[00:31:01] Eido Walny: If you had to fix those up, I think they’d be a little less fun.
[00:31:04] Steve Fretzin: I used to take it to the dealer and I had a joke where I take my wallet, like, and I have to get something fixed. I’d take my wallet. I’d put it on the counter and I’d say, Hey, give me back what you think I should have, because every time it was a belt, it was this, it was that it was just like a money, you know, just a money drain, but it was fun for a while.
[00:31:18] Steve Fretzin: Hey man, thank you so much for being on the show. As we wrap up, want to thank our wonderful sponsors. Of course, rankings IO. If you’re looking to market your law practice and take things to another level. Generate leads on a regular basis. Check out rankings. io and check out law her empowering women to shatter conventions and rebuild success in their own image.
[00:31:35] Steve Fretzin: And of course, rainmakers roundtable, which is one of my favorite things to do. Facilitate high level dialogues between managing partners from around the country. That inspire motivate and most importantly hold them accountable to the growth plans that they have profit first and all that So check that out on my website Fretzin.
[00:31:53] Steve Fretzin: com And you know if people want to get in touch with you, they want to network with you They want to do business with you. What are the best digits?
[00:31:59] Eido Walny: So one of the great things about having a name like Edo is you can always Google Edo, E I D O, and you’ll always find me, but otherwise Walnut legal online, or our phone number is 414 751 7531.
[00:32:12] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, really awesome, man. Well, thank you for coming on the show, sharing your quote, sharing your wisdom, all these life lessons that you’ve had. And I’ve got, you know, so I’ve even wrote down a couple of well, I want to introduce you to as you’re talking that just popped into my head. So this is what we do here.
[00:32:25] Steve Fretzin: Thanks so much, man. Appreciate it. I appreciate
[00:32:27] Eido Walny: you having me. This was
[00:32:28] Steve Fretzin: great. Yeah. And more to come there and everybody, listen, thank you for spending time with us. You know, we know how valuable your time is in these 30 minutes, twice a week. Hopefully he’s making a big difference. If it is, don’t be shy about telling other lawyers about it.
[00:32:40] Steve Fretzin: We want to spread the word. We want to help as many people as we can paying it forward. And also give us some kind words on your Apple phone, a couple of thumbs up stars, arts, whatever the hell is going on. I don’t know. I’m not the technology whiz. I think I am. Anyway. Take care everybody. Be safe. Be well.
[00:32:54] Steve Fretzin: We’ll talk again soon.
[00:33:00] Narrator: Thanks for listening. To be that Lawyer life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.