In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Elise Buie discuss:
- Using data-driven decision-making to manage and grow a modern law firm
- Redefining work-life integration and employee well-being within professional culture
- Building brand identity and marketing strategies rooted in authenticity and measurable ROI
- Leadership through adaptability, empathy, and alignment between values and performance metrics
Key Takeaways:
- Reframing “billable hours” as “build-on-invoice hours” can close significant financial gaps by ensuring all productive time is accurately tracked and billed.
- Setting clear KPIs for every team member creates transparency, objective performance evaluation, and alignment with organizational values.
- Structured delegation and workflow redesign can reduce working hours without sacrificing productivity, improving overall employee satisfaction.
- Combining quantitative data with qualitative narratives allows leaders to make informed decisions that support both profitability and people.
“If you have good data, I don’t care where my people are. They could be in New Zealand on a black beach, and I know exactly what’s happening.” — Elise Buie
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About Elise Buie: Elise Buie, Esq., is a Seattle-based family law attorney and founder of Elise Buie Family Law Group, a law firm devoted to divorce, family law, and estate planning. A survivor of Hurricane Katrina, her own divorce, and many dish-filled sinks piled high after lively family dinners with her husband, Doug, and their blended family of six (six!) now-adult children, Elise knows firsthand what it means to juggle work and parenting, finding balance in between, even if it means a lot of late nights. When she’s not advocating for her clients, the best interests of their children, and civility in divorce, you can find her sailing on Puget Sound.
Connect with Elise Buie:
Website: https://www.elisebuiefamilylaw.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elise-buie/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elisebuiefamilylaw
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elisebuiefamilylawgroup/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey, before we get to the show today, just want to remind you that our new show be that lawyer Coaches Corner is out and available on all major channels. If you hate selling, this is where I break down my sales, free selling process, how to win more clients and deepen relationships without ever feeling pushy or salesy. New episodes are running, so check it out. Be that lawyer Coach’s Corner. Tune in and enjoy the show. Today
Narrator [00:25]
you’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, hey everybody.
Steve Fretzin [00:48]
Steve Fretzin, and no surprise, this is the be that lawyer podcast. This is what you’ve come to listen to. Hopefully you’re checking out our videos on YouTube, and also you’re you’ve already purchased the book be that lawyer, 101 top Rainmaker, secrets to growing a successful law practice. It’s a best seller, 50 plus five star reviews. We are rocking and rolling with that. And you guys know what this is all about. We’re helping you be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker twice a week, every single week, forever and ever and ever. And I just try to find talent anywhere I can. And sometimes, you know, just goodness rains down on me, and I end up with someone like Elise in the who’s hanging out in the wings. How you doing? Great. How are you good? I’m doing really well. Are we gonna get into our New Orleans roots together? Or no? Well, we’ll see where it takes us. Let’s see where it see. We’ll see where it takes us. Yeah, I’ve got a lovely, lovely family down in New Orleans, but I have to, when I go down to visit them, the first thing I do is I take off my watch, because there is no time. And if we’re having dinner at seven, plan for 10. It’s not it right? And it’s just never going to go the way you want it to, but it’ll always
Elise Buie [01:55]
be good. So that’s have an amazing dinner. Let’s be serious.
Steve Fretzin [02:00]
The crawfish boils and the crab boil. And the things that they do, yeah, they’re second. I mean, I’ve never had a four hour dinner where you just sit around and, you know, and eat for four hours, but that’s what they do, and we go along with it. So hey, let’s jump in right away and get to our quote of the show. This one you and I found together, and we immediately knew that it was the right one for this show. It is in God, we trust all others must bring data, and that’s attributed to Edwards Deming, and yes, it was his, my, his business mantra. So welcome to the show and tell us why you love that quote, right when you heard it?
Elise Buie [02:32]
Well, I mean, I am all about the data, because you know the otherwise, you get into all these emotions. Yeah, I don’t want all the emotions bring me the numbers. Like, talk about the numbers. And if we’re going to have to talk about emotions, we’re doing that later over fried chicken and beer. We’re making a decision, you know, yeah,
Steve Fretzin [02:52]
base it on the data. You know, that’s the thing. Like, I am one of these people who I love everybody. Like, I just, I so I have, you know, like, I’ll have an assistant, and I’ll hold on to the assistant like six months longer, when the data is all telling me, go, this is not working. This is not someone that you should hold on to. And I just have a heart, right? And then you end up six months of regrets.
Elise Buie [03:15]
Oh, do we all know that? I think every one of us has tried to rehabilitate or, you know, we’re like, oh, we’ll try this again. Sure, it’ll work now. And that rough, real data gives us the real deal. And it’s like, oh, okay, my 12th idea didn’t work either well.
Steve Fretzin [03:35]
And I don’t think lawyers, traditionally are fans of math and data and that type of detail. I think it’s, I mean, tell me if I’m wrong. I mean, most lawyers, I think it’s language, it’s problem solving, it’s arguing, it’s things like that that really, I think, make people passionate about the law
Elise Buie [03:51]
well, and it’s interesting, because as a young person, I loved math. I mean, I went to college to be a biomedical engineer. Okay, I was gonna do I got so into calculus, you know, I was, I think, in semester four of some type of crazy derivative calculus. And I realized I was at the end of this blonde brain when it came to calculus. And I thought, hmm, maybe I’m not going to be a biomedical engineer. Yeah, right. Change that, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [04:18]
And if you did, then you’d end up in IP, right? That’s where they end up, right? These engineers, everybody, you’ve got such a treat in store for you today. Elise Buie is the CEO and founder of Elise Buie family law. I think we originally met through Anita ventrelli. Is that possible? I think it is, yes, yeah. She’s one of my favorite people.
Elise Buie [04:37]
Oh, she was a teacher for me years ago at one of those Nita family law, trial advocacy. I mean, wow, does she have some skills?
Steve Fretzin [04:46]
Yeah, she’s a powerhouse here in Chicago, everybody, and she’s been on the show. She’s in my book over my shoulder, and she’s she’s been in one of my Rainmaker roundtables for years, and she’s just an incredible lawyer, an incredible person. I just can’t say enough. Great. Things about her, but this is not about Anita. This is about you and your brain. So tell everybody a little bit about your background, how you came
Elise Buie [05:07]
to be sure. Well, I, you know, messed up in calculus, so ended up and we got that far right, right? And so, you know, went to law school, was in New Orleans, did the you know, graduated, ended up in insurance defense litigation for years, then quit and stayed home, and I was enjoying my four little children at the time, and doing the thing. Then Hurricane Katrina hit, and off we went on our wild country adventure, you know, moving both to Georgia, then Minnesota, and then finally out here to Seattle. I started a firm out here in Seattle in 2015 you know, I didn’t know a soul. Just came out here and worked as a contract attorney for a while, then started my own firm. So for about 10 years, I’ve been growing and doing this out here, and it’s been a wild adventure to say, you know, you go from just you to whatever we have now 40 ish people. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [06:04]
I mean, what are some of the like lessons and hard knocks that not only you have found in your search for greatness and running and growing a law firm, but other lawyers? What are? What are you seeing out there that this where the struggles are in developing a sustainable, successful law practice,
Speaker 1 [06:21]
not using the data. Okay, so we’re right back where we started.
Elise Buie [06:25]
It’s really true, though, not understanding one, what their numbers are, and then two, what story those numbers are telling you. And I think in so many billable hourly firms, there is such a leaky bucket of what is happening. And I think for me, like I would, you know, every month, every week, you know, look at these things. And I was always like, okay, this person says they’re doing this, Cleo says this, you know, but then the numbers do not add up. And so we created this system, I mean me and my, you know, little blonde brain, I was like, We are not going to call these billable hours anymore. We call them build on invoice hours, because I feel like there was this leaky bucket that was totally happening because attorneys would either discount their time. They’d be like, Oh, took a little too long to do this, or whatever, or they were not putting things on bills that they decided, you know, either that’s a non billable activity or not. But I was like, you know, if that attorney has agreed to do, you know, 1200 hours a year, let’s say a billable hourly work. That means that 1200 hours at their normal billable rate are going on to invoices if they want to cut and do whatever. Okay, that’s on your time, over your 1200 hours of build on invoice. And so a lot of firms look at collections, but in my mind, that is not fair, because the collection part that is on me, like, if I do not have the processes in place to do collections, well, the attorney should not suffer from for that. Okay, the build on invoice is 100% in the attorney’s control, and so that for our firm, literally plugged an $800,000 leaky bucket. Wow, wow. It was wild. The difference when we started doing
Steve Fretzin [08:29]
this, well, you’re coming in with a firecracker and blowing some minds right now, because there’s people listening who run firms that don’t have that specific mindset and system in place, and their leaky buckets, you know, leaking. So I appreciate that so much.
Elise Buie [08:44]
Yeah, well, that, to me, is the, I think I have such a heart for attorneys and what they’re doing, because so much of what we do, and so many of us go into this work because we’re trying to help people, you know, what, like we’re, I mean, you do not become a criminal attorney because you’re some like, you know, capitalistic, you know, extraordinaire. I mean, you’re literally trying to, like, keep our democracy in the forefront of what you’re doing every day. And but you see these attorneys that are just bleeding finances, and they are struggling, and they are working 6070, hours a week, and they’re earning less than they would earn doing their job somewhere else. Well, let’s
Steve Fretzin [09:25]
not stop there. I think we’re on a roll right now, and I’d love to hear what are some of the other things that you’re looking at, from a standpoint of data and metrics that are helping you to be successful and profitable, that maybe lawyers are missing.
Elise Buie [09:38]
Well, I mean that the build on invoice is one, and then also really digging into the metrics in every part of your firm. You know, like intake has its own metrics. Marketing has its own metrics. The client experience has its own metrics. You know, like being able to determine and your team what. Your team’s satisfaction with their work. What is their trust level in the firm? Like? Are you doing and getting, like pulse surveys from your team, so that you are building up a culture that is accessible? Kind of kindness, one of your values, you know, but whatever your values are, and really making sure that you are, I think, practicing your values through your data you know, so that you know. And then for us, I mean, we have KPIs. So like every person in the firm has KPIs that we look at, so we can objectively look at people’s performance, so it’s not one of those feeling things you know, or not one of those you know, we think this person is doing well. I mean, we can actually track, you know, how they are doing and whether they’re performing, and how that aligns with our culture. Yeah. And what
Steve Fretzin [11:00]
about marketing? Obviously, you know, people are spending 1000s, 10 1000s, you know, even more, 100 1000s, in some instances, on marketing. You know, I’ve had a lot of marketing people on here that say, Hey, follow the data and but do you have a system for how you’re tracking your marketing and your budgeting and how it’s feeding? Back to ROI,
Elise Buie [11:19]
yeah, marketing is such an interesting area. We are a very weird firm in this regard. We have a low marketing budget. I mean, just low. I mean, I just got back from a marketing conference, and I mean we are substantially low. We do 5% of our gross revenue towards marketing. And I mean, we keep that very tight, because we do track the ROI on it. But also this is where I think it’s important for people to understand the difference between brand marketing and positioning versus, you know, digital kind of marketing, paid ads and things. If you have developed a solid brand, or are developing a solid brand, where you know you are across all things, like from an organic standpoint, and you’ve developed thought leadership in areas, and you have done what you can do to really maximize referral marketing, then when you bring In the digital marketing on top of it. So maybe you’ve maxed out or plateaued your, you know, organic reach, and you need to do some more that is all kind of playing in an ecosystem together, you know, where. So if I go and spend a certain amount of dollars on paid ads, I am going to get a different ROI than somebody who is paying those exact same dollars, but without the developed brand? Yeah, yeah. I think there’s this big you know thing that gets lost is people not putting enough money towards brand marketing, and it doesn’t necessarily money is probably the wrong word, but money, time, effort, thought, strategy, yeah, yeah, developing that brand marketing.
Steve Fretzin [13:09]
I feel like what you’re saying is like the brand marketing and the relationship marketing is like, you’ve made this cake, and then if you happen to throw digital on top of it, you’ve ice the cake, otherwise you just have a puddle of icing. Maybe not. I could have gone off the wheels with that one. But I think you’re so right, because if you’re just an anomaly, and then trying to flood the market with ads, but without the brand, and without the validation and all the different pieces that go into like, if you, I’m not saying to do this anybody, but like, if you type Steve Fretzin into Google, and you go 6070, 80, pages deep, and I’m still there. I’m not saying anyone would ever do that. I’m just my point is, like you create the content, you create the brand, you work at it, and then if you do digital on top, the likelihood that it’s going to play out is even enhanced Absolutely.
Elise Buie [13:56]
And I think that there’s so much now with AI as far as, how are people showing up your brand in all that development really plays into that part of this as well. And even at the conference, though I just went to it was so interesting because they had actually really tracked, you know, through their data, how little things are still coming through AI, like, we all are all like, but it is still coming through Google and through, you know, the normal channels. It was interesting to see Reddit as being such a powerful channel of marketing. And, I mean, that’s all thought leadership, you know, around like, where are things coming and so I think for me, like marketing, there’s such a I’m so, like, strongly related to my values. And I think being able to verbalize, talk about and get out there about your values is such a powerful. Powerful way to develop a brand, and then I think the rest of the marketing engine can kind of go with that, and they just really help boost it.
Steve Fretzin [15:11]
Yeah, with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm, rankings.io. Prides itself on proof, not promises, mentality, the best firms hire rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases, other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver. Get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free [email protected] today. Hey, be that lawyer friends. If you’re looking for smarter ways to grow your law practice and want to stay ahead of the curve in legal, tech, business and strategy, then it’s time to check out legal verse media, the go to hub for lawyers who want more. This international platform connects you with global thought leaders through articles, podcasts, webinars and interactive forums that are shaping the future of law. Explore everything with a free 14 day trial, including early access to tools, peer discussions and a chance to build your brand as a thought leader. Don’t wait. Visit legalverse media.com, and register for membership today. Hey everybody, it’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you. And let’s make this your breakout year. And then is there data and ROI that you can find in your team, whether it’s people delegating work down to paralegals and Associates and paralegals and admin, and keeping the rainmakers, rainmaking like you, and then, you know, making sure that your lawyers are fully functioning on the high level work 100%
Elise Buie [16:55]
I mean, that is, to me, that is the fun of running a law firm. And we actually created last year a thing called 30 is the new 40, which actually put that into place in a way where, in it applies to hourly employees. So it’s not attorneys, you know, because they it’s looked at different but like paralegals. Let’s say they were working, you know, 40 hours a week. They all have their KPIs, and I, we’re big into having good life work integration. And I was like, Okay, there’s a way I can give these people back 10 hours a week. And I was like, we need to take their KPIs and we need to teach them how to delegate this work down so that, you know, anything that’s non billable admin, like we’re delegating it down. And so then I have paralegals now who work 30 hours a week. They get paid 40, and they are hitting the exact same kick.
Steve Fretzin [17:51]
And then the paralegals are delegating to who they’re delegating down to, VAs or legal
Elise Buie [17:57]
assistant, yeah, or we’re automating things, but we’re not doing something like, you know, I mean, sometimes you have to look at your workflow and be like, Yeah, this thing is just noise. It’s not moving any needle, yeah. So we did a whole beta test of this 30 is the new 40, with a paralegal in our office, and we met with her weekly, got her feedback, and brought her down systematically from her 40, you know, to 30 over about a six month period. I mean, it’s pretty powerful to get 10 hours back in your life. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [18:34]
Oh, every lawyer, there’s not a lawyer listening that isn’t salivating and hearing about how they get 10 hours a week back on their life. Yeah. In some instances, I find I, you know, I have people track their day, and they identify the hour or two a day that is being wasted, and they basically get, like, take advantage of it. They can get it, like, a week, an extra week a month, but not everybody does that, and not everybody is interested in trying to, like, go deep and figure it out. But I’m curious how you can be data driven. And it’s not that there isn’t emotion, but you’re trying to take the emotion out of it. But does that create a stronger value system and stronger culture? Or has that been challenging? Because you think, if you’re just looking at data that seems colder than warmer from a standpoint of building a strong culture, but I’m assuming it’s the opposite for you.
Elise Buie [19:19]
Well, I mean, I guess I don’t know in that, I look at it as numbers plus narrative. So we talk about our data clearly as our numbers, and then we need the narrative that matches that. So let’s say, as an example, I want to talk to an attorney who maybe is not hitting their billable goals. I’m going to bring the data, you know, and that data is shared with that attorney, daily, weekly, like they know exactly, so there’s no like mystery or surprise, yeah, in that conversation, I’m going to want to know what is their narrative like, what is happening in their life right now that could be impacting this. What can we do to. Support them in whatever is going on is this, you know, a long term problem, a month long problem, a quarter problem. Because we have a choose your own adventure model where people come in and tell us what they’re going to bill a year. Because how do I know what they want to bill in a year like I I’ve got people who’ve got four kids, three kids, no kids. You know, they might have completely different needs. Yeah. And so we do not have any set standard billable hour. People tell us what they want to bill. We tell them what we’ll pay them. And if they need to make changes along the way, they just say, Yo, I need a change. Like, I need to go up, I need to go down, like whatever, and we make those adjustments. And so in my mind, the data allows us to be more nimble, and it allows us to actually meet people where they are.
Steve Fretzin [20:53]
Wow, I love that. And again, I don’t think that’s what most firms are doing, right that the billable requirements are super high. There’s lack of flexibility. Their prices keep going up. It’s harder and harder to get business. And it sounds like you’ve got something really cooking here that is, you know, kind of moving along with the times.
Elise Buie [21:12]
Yeah, definitely, we are definitely different. I mean, like when I was at this marketing conference, I sat on a panel with two other attorneys, and I was in the middle of these two other attorneys. And every time we would talk, I’d be like, Okay, here I am saying something weird again, because I realized we do things weird, and we do we just are. We’re very innovative. And like I said, we’re so focused on life, work, integration. I think being a mom and, you know, divorcing myself, like being a single mom and getting married, having this blended family of six kids, I couldn’t have some rigid life. Like, yeah, I mean, I to go to lacrosse, football, climbing, you know, rowing. I mean, I was like, all over the place. And so I very much know what it’s like, especially for women who are juggling all the things that I mean it, they just don’t need to be sitting in some office at some set hour every day doing the things they can get their work done. And I think because of our data, it allows the remoteness of our firm to work so well, because a lot of owners are like, Well, how am I going to you know, know what people are doing. It’s like, if you have good data, I don’t care where my people are, they could be in New Zealand on a Black Beach, and I know exactly what’s happening.
Steve Fretzin [22:30]
Yeah, yeah. Amazing, amazing. So as you continue to leverage data and incorporate values into the firm, does that help? I mean, how does that impact your ability to scale? How has have, how have you scaled? And give everybody a little bit of a flavor of how this allows you to scale.
Elise Buie [22:50]
Well, I think for one, I mean, and it’s interesting, everyone focuses on scale. And I have to tell you, I go through periods. I like, you know, in like, My people, there’s flexibility. There are times that we are scaling, and there are times that I’m like, Oh no, we are doing no scaling. We are correcting things, or we are digging in and fixing something or creating something that we really need to create. And so we have not had, you know, like a linear up into the scaling thing. I mean, you know, we’ve gone from, like, probably right at a million in 2019 to Little over 6 million, you know, and that’s been up, down and around. I mean, I had one year 2023, I think, where I literally called it my year of peace. And I literally pulled us back down. Because I was like, we have kind of scaled a lot, but there are some things that we that are broken, you know, that need fixed. So I’m like, we are going to pull down and we’re going to fit and so I don’t know, I just look at scaling in terms of the health of the firm, both financially, but also people wise. How is the health of my people? And I have to tell you, like, with getting into politics, people are struggling just in the world right now. Like, I think there’s a lot going and so I think there’s just a lot of, you know, just almost fatigue in people. So, like, we are really leaning into that right now. Like, you know, what do we need to do to make sure we are meeting our people where they all are?
Steve Fretzin [24:25]
Yeah, and I think checking in on wellness and checking in on, you know, like I was talking to a client who we just met, and he was telling me, you know, he’s feeling a bit down, and it’s affecting his business development and all that. And I’m like, so I just asked a few questions, and sure enough, there’s some issues with this, with his son, and his son’s not sleeping, he’s not sleeping and, you know, so, yeah, so if you’re not sleeping or eating right, or exercising, or there’s something that just isn’t going on, you know, the politics of the world and the way the world is going, like, yeah, there’s a lot of stressors. I get that. And so I think that may be just another point to make. Is to, like, check in with your people. Like, don’t just be the business side and the data side. I think there’s the human side of, how are you doing today and what’s going on with you? And how can you know? What can I do
Elise Buie [25:08]
for you? I mean, I think it’s the numbers plus the narrative.
Steve Fretzin [25:12]
Numbers plus the narrative, that’s the theme of the show. I mean, the numbers plus the narrative is really, you must say that a lot. That’s like, that might be their quote of the show. I do now, we got another quote of the show, but I love that, because I think you’re right on
Elise Buie [25:26]
without the narrative, you are missing a huge part of the puzzle. Do you know? And you have to be able to meet people, because, like it or not, as a business owner, every single human in your business is dealing with some wild stuff. Yeah, it doesn’t matter who they are, what position they have, where they’re from, what their politics are. None of that matters. Everybody’s got stuff going on. And if do not dig in and actually air fundamentally, care, yeah, I love it. I love it.
Steve Fretzin [26:05]
So I think we’re gonna, we’re not gonna end there, but we’re gonna end here. And that is what’s Elise’s big mistake.
Elise Buie [26:13]
Oh my gosh, yeah, that’s all right, my big mistake, big I mean, it dates back. Was actually deciding to quit my job as a lawyer, stay home. My husband and I at the time, he’s my ex husband. Now it was a real struggle, and I think we kind of felt like competition, almost. He’s an attorney, and it just wasn’t going well. And so I’m like, Oh, well, quit. I’m going to stay home. You will be the lawyer. You know, you do all the things, and I’ll just, you know, homeschool four children, it’ll be fine. Well, that was not my wisest move. And you know, however many years later, 10 years later, into that, I was like, Oh, well, now we need a divorce. And now I haven’t worked for a decade, and I’ve got no money, and so I literally had to take all that, flip it all around, and I’m like, and then I was like, Oh, I kids looming for college. And I was like, I don’t have a college fund, so, I mean, I started the firm solely with the intent that I was paying for those four kids to go to college. Wow. And wow. So taking that mistake I made of just thinking I was somehow going to solve a marriage problem by doing what I was doing. It didn’t work. And so, you know, I’ve had to rebuild kind of later, and, you know, but I’ve, I mean, I’ve gained so much insight because of it, you know. And I, I actually my current husband. I was like, I actually owe such a debt of gratitude to my ex husband that all that happened, because I never, ever would have gotten where I am today without that. I would have just stayed in a typical law firm model. Yeah, totally, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [27:55]
I totally get what you’re saying and, you know, and that’s why you know, with kids today, you know, like my wife wants, and I want our son to, like, not have any struggles. We want everything easy. And I have to stop us and say, No, he needs to have that problem. He needs to, you know, figure out that he know pneumonia from a cough because he didn’t go to the doctor early enough, or, you know, whatever it just we, you can’t bulldoze. And so I think in our lives. It’s what ends up defining us as who we become off the challenges and even our world today. My hope is other than it blowing up, that we end up stronger as a country, for example, because we’re so, you know, divided and because there’s so much craziness going on. I mean, that’s what I hope happens, and I hope that, and I think that’s what happens to a lot of people that go through tough things, they come out the other end stronger. So 100% really great, really great. Let’s take a moment just thank our wonderful sponsors, rankings. IO, so if you’re doing great branding, and you’re going to need the paid stuff, the social, the SEO, the Pay Per Click, all the juice, and especially for the UPI folks, you’re going to want to check out rankings. IO we got the law her podcast with Sonia, crushing it for women. And, of course, legal verse media. If you want to get some international flair in your daily you know, web feed, then check them out. And Elisa, people want to network with you, meet you. They want to send work your way in your part of the world. What are the best ways for them to reach you.
Elise Buie [29:21]
I mean, on social media, they can reach out, or my email, which I’m sure you could put in the show notes, yeah, they’ll all be in the show notes. Yep, yeah. So yeah, and we are in Seattle. Our family law firm is in Seattle, Washington, and so yeah, that would be the best way. And I really appreciate your time today.
Steve Fretzin [29:38]
Yeah, no, this was great for both, from my perspective, amazing. And, by the way, just a quick thing about Seattle. I was there a number of years ago the pop culture Museum, amazing. Oh yeah, amazing. They had a thing on Pearl Jam. I’m a big Pearl Jam guy, and, Holy mackerel. It was so good. So deep on the band. Really, really enjoyed that this was wonderful. I thank you so much for coming on the. Show sharing your wisdom. I mean, I think, you know, there’s just so many things from, you know, numbers, plus the narrative and talking about, you know, data and KPIs, not just the data, but it’s important. I all this great stuff that I know lawyers are taking in and maybe making some better decisions about how they run things. So thank you.
Elise Buie [30:17]
Oh, well, awesome. Yeah. It was great seeing you. Yeah, great
Steve Fretzin [30:20]
seeing you as well. And thank you everybody for hanging out with Lisa and I for about 30 minutes plus Listen, take everything we said, dissect it, use it for how you can use it. And my goal is that you become organized and strategic and tactical and how you do it and use your data and be that lawyer. Everybody confident, organized in a skilled Rainmaker, take care, be safe, be well. We will talk again very soon.
Narrator [30:49]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website. Fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal, business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.