In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Gary Miles discuss:
- Facing fear with clarity
- Owning your internal authority
- Focusing on the process, not the outcome
- Building freedom through micro-shifts
Key Takeaways:
- Fear is common in legal careers, often hidden behind competence. Recognize that much of it is imagined, not reality. Facing it openly allows lawyers to act with clarity and confidence.
- Internal authority matters more than external validation. Measure success by your own standards, preparation, and effort, not by others’ opinions or metrics. This mindset creates professional freedom and peace of mind.
- Enjoying the process improves performance more than obsessing over outcomes. Focus on preparation, relationships, and skill-building instead of constant comparison or pressure to “win.” This approach fosters growth and satisfaction.
- Small, practical shifts build lasting change. Replace self-critical thoughts with supportive ones, set clear boundaries, and evaluate progress by skill, enjoyment, and well-being. Over time, these micro-actions compound into meaningful professional freedom.
“There’s fear everywhere. Unfortunately, the reality is that we have to lean into it… We have to lean into the fear and make mistakes, and that’s how we improve.” — Gary Miles
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About Gary Miles: Gary Miles is a trial attorney and former managing partner with over 40 years of legal experience, now dedicated to coaching lawyers to thrive. Drawing on his own journey managing complex cases and running a successful firm, he helps attorneys overcome fear, limiting beliefs, and burnout while building practices aligned with their values. Gary is the host of The Free Lawyer podcast and author of Breaking Free: A Guide to Achieving Personal and Professional Freedom as a Lawyer, combining mindset strategies with practical tools for professional and personal fulfillment.
Connect with Gary Miles:
Website: https://www.garymiles.net/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-freedom/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gary.miles.75641
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/golfinggary52/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqcfaTWo17uxmYS9hfAdiaQ
Free Lawyer Assessment: https://www.garymiles.net/the-free-lawyer-assessment
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
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Instagram: @fretzinsteve
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Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
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Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Gary Miles [00:00]
I’ve seen that so many other brilliant lawyers have a fear that’s kept hidden. They don’t want other people to know that, because it’s inconsistent with the image of being knowledgeable and strong and powerful. But fear is a real problem for many of us in the profession
Narrator [00:19]
You’re listening to be that lawyer life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, hey everybody.
Steve Fretzin [00:41]
Steve Fretzin, and welcome to the be that lawyer podcast. This is the show where we help you to be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. This is no joke. This is your career. You’re listening to this not because you’re a service attorney, or maybe you are a service attorney, but you want to stop being a service attorney. But ultimately, this is the place you’re going to come to come to learn business development, marketing, personal branding, life and health and wellness, and how do you maintain your battery as a lifelong lawyer in a career that you’re doing great work, and we want to support you in that there are certain people that I have on this show and that I have back on this show, that I have an affinity for, that I just I feel like my heart swells With joy when I have them here. And today I’ve got Gary Miles, and I’m just so happy to see my friend. How’s it going?
Gary Miles [01:26]
Steve, it’s awesome. Thank you so much for having me on it. I feel the same way we go back years, I think, and I’ve always been very grateful for you and appreciative for what you do to help lawyers figure out how to grow their business.
Steve Fretzin [01:36]
Yeah, and it’s mutual, my friend, I just we do. We help lawyers in different ways. But ultimately it’s to, you know, rise, you know, all ships rise kind of a thing, and and so, and you’re, by the way, your quote of the show is right in line with this. And so let’s get into it. It’s everything you’ve ever wanted is on the other side of fear.
Gary Miles [01:55]
By the way, pretty deep. It is deep. And, you know, the amazing thing is, I found, certainly I as a lawyer, was filled with fear for most of my career, and I was a trial lawyer, and it’s not a good thing to be a trial lawyer and be full of fear. And I’ve seen that so many other brilliant lawyers have a fear that’s kept hidden. They don’t want other people to know that, because it’s inconsistent with the image of being knowledgeable and strong and powerful, but fear is a real problem for many of us in the profession.
Steve Fretzin [02:25]
Yeah, so, you know, it’s the other side of it is a thing you know, business development is, you know, very deep fear that I think many lawyers have, and the fear of failure, the fear of wasting time, the fear of, you know, not, maybe not doing something right and having an opportunity and blowing it because, you know, you didn’t run it properly or handle it properly. There’s fear everywhere. Unfortunately, the reality is that we have to lean into it, right? We have to lean into the fear and make mistakes and and that’s how we improve, right? It’s how we get through life. Yeah, and a lot of the fear come from outside sources in business development, I try to build a relationships with someone. What will that person think of me, you know, or as a trial lawyer? What will the judge think of me, while the other lawyer think of me? What will my client think of me if I slip up? Yeah, and a lot of is a fear of being. In addition to all those you said, fear of failure, fear of judgment, are the two that, to me, are particularly powerful and but you got like, you know, there’s nothing to fear but fear itself. And fear stands for false evidence, appearing real, like there’s all these things that we are, you know, learning that, you know, 1000 years ago we were going to just get attacked by a bear, and that’s how that was our fear. And now it’s like, can I stand up in front of a group to speak? Can I be open, you know, to, you know, with a group of professionals, or can I ask a client for a referral? Those are like the fears we have now, right? Absolutely, so true. So true. Well, everybody, you’re in for a treat today. Gary Miles is the founder of the free lawyer, longtime friend and advocate in the legal profession. I mean, maybe as strong as anyone that I’ve interviewed on the show. Our depth of advocacy and love for the profession, I think there’s no one that cares more. And so give us a little background on you, Gary. And again, welcome so happy to have you back.
Gary Miles [04:11]
Yeah, I’m a Maryland lawyer. Practiced there for over 40 years, 46 to be exact, had my own firm, small firm, didn’t know how to grow it. I wish I had. I mean, where was I then, yeah, where was I so well when I moved to Pinehurst, North Carolina in the fall of 2021 and went off counsel to my firm, transitioned it to someone else, and continued to work off counsel for a period of time. But I realized, after 46 years of litigation and me trying to beat the other lawyer, the other lawyer, trying to beat me, and always in an argument, often it was very polite and respectful. It’s become less so over the years, but I decided I was tired of arguing with lawyers and trying to beat them, and I wanted to lift them and support them, encourage them, and that’s why I serve my podcast and my blog, and why I support lawyers now individually. And I just, it’s the most fulfilling thing I’ve ever done. Yeah, and I, I just don’t have a day’s stress when I work with lawyers in that way. And it’s so exciting for a lawyer to, you know, win a trial or to get praise from a client or and for you and I, I think it’s similar in that when we get our wins, right? We get our wins not through what we do, but through the successes of our clients. And so exactly what’s what would be an example of a win that you had recently where someone was struggling, what were they struggling with? And then what was the win that they had? Well, a lot of it comes back to fear. You know, I helped a young family lawyer who was very unhappy in the firm where she was she felt taken advantage of, not appreciated, no time for a family, and she wanted to chart her own course, but she was afraid to do it. How would work out? How I’d be able to handle it? And now we’ve hired an associate, we’ve hired a paralegal, and it’s only been eight months. She’s doubled her income. She has the flexibility. She has a five year old son. She likes to see in school when there’s an issue, and she has a flexibility to work when she needs to work. And now our biggest challenge is dealing with the growth, which is a good challenge to have, and she’s just so happy and so appreciative of my guidance that makes me feel valued, and that’s what I find so fulfilling.
Steve Fretzin [06:21]
Yeah, and there’s a challenge, not only going out on your own, but building a book of business and trying to take control of your career. And I call it head trash, you know, just there’s, there’s a lot going on in the brain that slows and stops people from moving forward. What’s, you know, some things that you’re seeing happen with lawyers on a fairly regular basis that makes them feel trapped and makes them feel scared and just doesn’t allow them to execute on the things that they need to execute on.
Gary Miles [06:49]
Yeah, you know, it’s funny, they often feel stuck in their firms, and I think what a lot of lawyers yearn for is some independence and some freedom to make the take the cases they want to take, have the volume they want to have, and they don’t get that in their firm. They’re told to do this, told to do that. They have to represent clients in a like or handle cases they’re not familiar with. But when it comes to being on their own, then they’re like, What if I’m getting clients? And they I call it awfulizing. They’ll awfulize that they will have no clients. And I said, Well, that’s that’s just not going to happen. And the truth is, whatever practice you’re in, the clients, maybe not in every practice, most practices, the clients you have today you won’t have three years later, you won’t the divorce will be over. The personal injury case will be over, whatever it might be, but the next client will come, come through services like when you provide and help them to learn how to grow their practice or through a good marketing program, and they just, and a lot of it is, they don’t know how to run a business. They don’t. They’re good lawyers, but I don’t know how to run a business. They don’t teach us that in law school. Yeah, and folks like you and I can help them with that. And then every time they’ve done it, it’s been successful, they’re happier, they’re making more money in less time than when they were in their firm, and it really
Steve Fretzin [08:04]
is fulfilling, yeah. And I think sometimes it’s, you know, there’s systems and there’s processes, and there’s scaling, and there’s things that can be taught, and there’s consultants like you and I and others that go in and do that. But there’s also the sort of the underlying, as I said, head trash and other things that, like, you know, limiting beliefs. What are some things that you do to help lawyers sort of get through that head trash so that they can go out on their own, or that they can decide to build the book, or even, you know, take action, to engage someone, to help them, you know, scale.
Gary Miles [08:39]
The first thing I do is we identify what the head trash is, because it’s different for different people. And I have an assessment that I send out to prospective clients and every new client with 30 questions that lets me really identify, what is it that’s holding them what is it that’s holding them back? And honestly, it’s different for different people. And once we’ve identified, then I help them become aware, on a day to day basis, how it’s affecting them. And oh, that thoughts in my head now, like, that’s what it is. That’s what’s holding me back. Once we’ve identified it, and then they’re aware of it, the rest is really easy, because a lot of it is stories. They’re not real, they’re not true, they’re things our mind tells us, maybe out of a sense of protection, but our mind tells this thing that stop us from taking that next step.
Steve Fretzin [09:28]
Yeah, it’s that. It’s a limiting beliefs and second guessing. And I think also we we worry about what other people think. Oh, right, for sure, talk to that.
Gary Miles [09:39]
Yeah, it’s something actually, it’s something that, for me, was very powerful, and it’s that way for a lot of lawyers, because it starts in law school. We’re judged based on our class rank. We made law review or we didn’t. We won our Moot Court argument, or we didn’t. Everything is black and white, winner, loser, and everything is judged by outside metrics. Law. School doesn’t give you credit for being focused, trying hard, studying well, they don’t care if your grade was A, C and you’re the bottom quarter your class. That’s where you are, that’s who you are. You know those successes and failures define who we are. And then it continues in the law firm, meet their metrics, you get a bonus. You don’t. We’re going to ask you to leave. And what I think it comes down to is we spend so much time judging ourselves by things outside of ourselves, and the pressure actually gets higher, not less as we achieve more success. You do well in your firm, you won four or five cases. The cases get bigger. Now your law firm’s financial future might be dependent on whether you win that case or keep that client, and that pressure builds and you could win. I’ve talked to my posts and podcasts. At one point, I won 12 trials in a row, but I lived in fear of losing the next one, because all of a sudden I’d be a failure. It makes no sense. Like, if the Chicago Bears win 12 games, they’re 12 and oh, and then they lose one, they’re like, we’re still got the best record of football, but we’re still think like that. We feel like we’re only as good as our last result, and the key is to move, not caring what other people think, and just judging yourself by your own standards of focus, effort, commitment, perseverance. And if I do a really good job for a client, really good job. And we lose the case. We lost the case.
Steve Fretzin [11:24]
Yeah, and it’s hard because we, you know, we’re in a world where we’re, you know, we’ve got Facebook and Instagram, and everybody’s on and everybody’s looking at everybody’s best sides, and everybody’s showing off, and look at what I ate, and look at where I’m vacationing, and look at my car. And so it’s, everybody feels like they’re every and I think the other piece of it that I you know, I know, and you know, and a lot of people that hear this will understand, is like, nobody cares about you, and I don’t mean in a negative way, but like everybody’s so thinking about themselves, that you think everyone’s like, you know, thinking about you, or you’re worried about what everyone thinks when they’re not
Gary Miles [12:01]
thinking about you at all. Right, that is so true. And a lot of the stories, obviously, in social media aren’t the whole picture. We always show our best sides and and you know, LinkedIn is the other thing people compare themselves to what other people show of themselves on LinkedIn, sort of our professional bragging grounds. I’m a huge fan of LinkedIn, but I know we can compare ourselves there too, and comparison does us those good it can do well if we know a good trial lawyer, and he tried a good case and he got a big verdict, what can I learn from him? What can that lawyer teach me? There’s one lawyer in Maryland who was amazing. She just won huge verdict after huge verdict in what really many considered smaller cases. But the goal isn’t to be jealous of her, but what can I learn? What about her technique, her style, would be helpful to me when I try my next case? And the only thing about comparison, I would say is, let’s not compare ourselves to other people, but let’s compare ourselves to ourselves. Where was I last year? What were my goals for myself for this year? How far did I come? How much did I grow, and how much did I improve? That’s what really counts, not just in the business metrics growing the business, but also in the personal satisfaction metrics. Did I find more time for my family? Did I have more peace? Did I get to the gym like I wanted to those kind of things as well?
Steve Fretzin [13:19]
Yeah, I love that, and I’m assuming that there are certain traits that make lawyers successful, and there’s traits that may limit them. What are how do you assess that? And how can having positive traits help? And how can negative traits be so limiting?
Gary Miles [13:37]
Well, I think there are three fundamental traits that I’ve decided really important for lawyers, and one is what I call what we talked about before, internal authority, letting go of what other people think of you. Some clients will be nice and gracious, some will be a pain. That’s just how they are. But how am I doing as a lawyer? Am I Am I focused? Am I organized? Am I productive? I call that internal authority. And the next is, Have I arranged my business in such a way that I’m productive, that I have systems so I could actually go on vacation, and things will still work okay without me, that I don’t have to check in, that I have a trained associate who can cover for me, that I have boundaries set with my clients, which actually are so important, and so many lawyers don’t do it. And the third is, Do I enjoy what I’m doing in my practice? Am I helping the clients I want to help? Am I practicing with the people I want to practice with? Am I working in the geographical area the size firm I want to work with? Does my practice give me what I need so that Sunday night I’m looking forward to getting to work instead of dreading it.
Steve Fretzin [14:40]
Yeah, well, and just to chime in, you know, from my perspective, one of the best things you can do in your career is to, you know, build your own book of business. Well, why? Well, because you’re selecting the clients you want to work with, right? It’s when you’re being thrown a dozen clients from five partners and three of. Am, keep you up at night. You can’t sleep. They’re tyrants. They’re this, that, and you have no control over anything, right? That’s where I feel like a lot of stress can occur. But when you say this, you realize someone’s like, I always have a saying, it’s, stay away from crazy. I think you do that, Jen, even in divorce, I think their lawyers are like, You know what? Like, I can’t even represent this person because they’re insane, and even though there’s money involved like this is not going to be worth them any amount of money. Absolutely right. So you said
Gary Miles [15:27]
I did family law last 15 years of my practice almost exclusively, yeah. And my rule was, I mean, I’ll represent either husband or wife, the one who left the marriage had an affair, doesn’t matter. I just won’t represent a jerk. And usually a jerk became real obvious real early, and I would not want to represent them. The other key benefit having a book of business is it gives us freedom and leverage. If I can bring in enough money that I can be self supporting, or another firm will want me, or this firm wants me more, that’s where my power leverage, independence and freedom comes from yeah and awesome.
Steve Fretzin [16:03]
Hey everybody. Steve Fretzin Here [email protected] They don’t just market law firms. They help them grow. From connecting millions of consumers to trusted lawyers to smarter intake and industry leading events, they’re building stronger connections across legal visibility, intake, events, growth. That’s lawyer.com Check them out today, with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings.io. Prides itself on proof, not promises. Mentality. The best firms hire rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases, other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver. Get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free [email protected] today.
Steve Fretzin [16:48]
Hey everybody, it’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you. And let’s make this your breakout year. So there’s a lawyer listening right now, recognizing themselves and everything kind of what you just described. What’s the first shift they can shift that they can make to start operating from internal confidence rather than external validation. I think the first thing is to become aware of when you’re making a decision based on what someone else thinks. So let’s talk about boundaries. I really recommend lawyers have boundaries like you would not call your doctor at 10am and expect him to answer the phone. He’s professional. You respect him a lot. You expect that when you call someone else will answer phone and say, you know, Dr Fredson will call you back, probably by three, and you’re like, great, that’s fine, but we create a world of instant availability. We have to provide client service because we don’t want the client to think we’re not good, or we want to feel like we’re indispensable, instead of setting a boundary that both suits our needs and the client’s needs. So I train my clients to have a quiet window of focus work between eight and 10, no calls, no emails, no interruptions, no paralegal, no legal assistant I’m working. And train the clients to set I train the clients. You call me at nine o’clock. I won’t answer the phone because I’m going to be working focused work on your file or another file, and when I’m doing that, I don’t want to be interrupted, because that’s when I make mistakes. That’s when it takes longer. I’ll get your work done more efficiently and better by doing that, and then I’ll call you back at 1015 and they’re like, Well, that makes a lot of sense, yeah. And it really works. Well, then you’re not dealing also with fires all day. There’s lawyers who complain they don’t get much done because just fires keep happening. And I get that there’s, there’s certain situations where, you know, in the middle of a, you know, litigation, or in the middle of something where someone calls up and something crazy just happened, and you’ve got to sort of act on it, like, let’s say employment, right? Like you don’t want to necessarily. But that being said, I to your point, I think most lawyers don’t do a good enough job of setting boundaries and setting clear expectations with clients about communication. And I do, like, I tell my clients, like, if you have anything you need. You call me, email me, text me, and I will be there for you. Now, if I’m in the middle of a meeting, if I’m in a little dinner, you’re gonna hear back from me right after. It’s not gonna be two days later. It’s gonna be right after. But I want to make sure, you know, I’m available for you, but it’s not always going to be in the moment, and they’re okay with that, and by the way, we’re also not doing, you know, heart surgery, so you know, they seem pretty happy about that. So you know, just make sure that you you understand, you know that if you’re not setting client expectation, if you don’t have a good way of dealing with setting your schedule and making sure that you’re taking your the way you’re taking in calls and emails and things, that’s going to hurt your day terribly, and then your week, and then your month and then your year. Yeah, I
Gary Miles [19:59]
think a lot. Lot of lawyers don’t realize how much their stress comes from worrying about what other people will think, or whether we talk about fear of failure, fear of judgment. And you know, I would say to the lawyers, listen, next time you walk into a courtroom, you walk into a partner’s meeting, you’re meeting a challenging client. What are your thoughts when you feel stress? Is it I’m worried I’m not good enough? Is it what will they think of me? Is it, what will the judge think of me? Or is it, I know I’m prepared. I’ll do a good job. If we’re aware of that, we could just change our thoughts to you know, I’m really prepared for this hearing. I know what’s going to happen, but I’m really prepared and I’m going to do a good job, because I know what I’m doing is a much more relaxed and confident place to be. And you know, for those who are football fans, if I walk up to hit the kick and I’m thinking, what would they think of me if I miss it versus I’ve hit this 20 times wrong practice, this is right at my wheelhouse. Is an entirely different way of thinking.
Steve Fretzin [20:58]
Yeah, are there some either tips or tricks that you use with your clients to help them stay positive and be confident.
Gary Miles [21:08]
Yeah, the first is self awareness. The third is making a constant, a conscious choice to change that thought. And I actually have them write down when they are starting to think about, what will my client think of me? And we identify those things. In practice, a client calls and yells, yells at a client of my client calls and yells them about how they handled a matter that they didn’t do something right. We talk through that, and I say, How did you do did you do everything right? Were you prepared? Had you respond to time if they say, oh yes. And it’s like, Well, don’t worry, that’s just an unreasonable client. If they say no, then I say, look, humbly say you’re right. I should have called you back sooner. But a lot of it is realizing when we’re stressed by what other people think or say about us, or by worrying so much about the outcome, and stop worrying about the outcome, the outcome will take care of itself. And I found when you don’t worry about it, your performance is so much better. I had a good friend at my club who was a great tennis player, and I said, What do you think is the key you being so good at what you do? He says, I don’t care if I win or lose, I just don’t care. I’m just going to have fun and playing hitting the balls the best I can without worrying about whether I win or lose. And that’s such profound advice. Wow.
Steve Fretzin [22:21]
Yeah. And that’s, you know, the late great Larry the lawyer, my late father, you know, he said to me that I didn’t really have a competitive streak in me, and that he gave it to me. And of course, he’s going to take credit for that. That’s that was his jam. But I think we started playing ping pong in the basement, and I didn’t care about the score, I didn’t care about winning. And then he, he drove me to caring. And now I’ve been obsessed with winning ever since. And but that being said, I agree that winning it No, it all costs. No, I want to go out and have fun first. And by the way, it’s more fun to win than lose, so I’m sort of of that ilk that I want to be competitive. I want to play and I want to play smart. I want to beat somebody, maybe on strategy over power. I want to just, I want to, like, play the chess game, and I want to win the chess match in the game of, you know, paddle tennis, pickle tennis, whatever it might be. Um, I don’t know that’s just, that’s just so, so I think, I think there’s competitiveness and there’s enjoyment, and they there’s a there’s a safe place in between.
Gary Miles [23:20]
There absolutely is, but living in fear of the result of losing, well, yeah, that makes us less competitive. We are not as good when you approach it from you know, I’ve trained for this event, I’ve prepared my case. I’m really lined up, and you’re walking in worrying about, What if I lose, versus coming from a place where I know I’m prepared. I know I have this I’m as organized as I can be. We can’t plan for all contingencies. We don’t know who’s on the jury, what they’re going to decide, but I’m prepared, and I know exactly what I’m going to ask and how I’m going to handle it. And I found that when I work with my clients, they start identifying those patterns in themselves, and then they start changing their mind. Talk. We’ve talked about the trash in our head, they start changing that trash. From, what will they think of me? What if I make a mistake? To I’m prepared and I’m going to do well, and it may not result in what we want, but we will be better for that. One of the most
Steve Fretzin [24:20]
profound and exciting things that I find myself doing with my clients and teaching them a model called sales. Free selling is to take the pressure off and the head trash out, relating to, you know, pitch meetings, relating to attending networking meetings, and what am I going to get out of it? And can I get the close and looking at that outcome as the as the only you know variable that that matters and to get them to start thinking. Look, what can I can I build? Can I learn about somebody to build a stronger relationship? What can I ask to identify that they have needs and problems that I can solve? How can I walk them through a buying decision so they feel great about. About it, as opposed to me having to push and sell and pitch. And by the way, can, can we make this experience of business development and all the pieces around it fun? Like, can we do that? Because if we do that, and we take that all the stress out of it that we got to, you know, get something out of it, or we got to close this deal, or else, or whatever, then it takes so much pressure away, and by the way, then we can sort of enjoy, I just, you’re there’s a great golf analogy the I worked with a golf pro for a little bit, and I wrote an article about this, and I might be in one of my books, I don’t remember, but he had me swing the club and hit like, like, 10 balls in a row and and I did, and he said, so did you enjoy that? And I go, What do you mean? He goes, Well, did you enjoy swinging the club? I go, No, I didn’t really enjoy it. I just, you know, I’m trying to get the ball down the middle. He goes, Yeah, but what do you think golf is? I go, getting the ball now. He goes, Yeah, but, but if you’re not enjoying swinging the club, if you’re not enjoying that’s the whole game is swinging a club, and I thought that is exactly the same as business development. Can we enjoy the process and the detective work and the understanding and the relationship building that is a part of business development, versus the pressure of getting the ball straight down, down the fairway to get it into the hole quickly? And it was like a huge epiphany for me when he told me that, and how it related to what I was teaching. So, so therefore, you took up fishing, right? And there, yeah. So then I started fishing, and I wrote articles about fishing. So I’ve got, I’ve got all the sports covered. I’ve got, you know, if there’s, if there’s something to pull out of a sport, that leads back to what I do, you know, I’ll take, I’ll take it every day.
Gary Miles [26:40]
I think that’s such great advice you give your clients. It’s all about the connection and the relationship. If I walk in, I think about selling myself and pitching myself and frustrated what doesn’t work, but a lot of my success would come from understanding you and what makes you tick, and what are you looking for, and what are your needs. It takes so much pressure off. You know, I’ve never I know kind of all the other coaches in my space, and I don’t hesitate to refer someone to someone else, because I know it’s, it’s not my lane. I’m not the right person for you. You know someone else is. And I’ll refer that to to one of my friends who do a different kind of work than what I do. And and yet, maybe your situation, what you need is something I could help with, you know. But I if I come from a posture of wanting to sell myself instead of listening to you and building a relationship, then that takes time. And it takes time to have that relationship where next time around, that client might say, you know, Steve, I’d like to work with you. I really enjoyed getting to know you
Steve Fretzin [27:41]
you know, well, what happens is we focus on diagnosis rather than prescription. If we just, if we just do pitches and prescriptions, we don’t really understand what is going on around us to make the proper decision. Is this someone really for me, and are they qualified? And is this someone I want to work with, or is this someone that I need to hand off to someone else because they’re better suited for that personality or for the need they have. So lots, lots to unpack there. But hey, I’ve got a big question for you, what’s Gary’s big mistake?
Gary Miles [28:11]
So my big mistake is actually what I coach now. I was consumed throughout the better part of my life by what other people thought of me personally and professionally, and it got worse when I went to law school. I graduated number one in my law school class. But still, I was driven by fear of judgment, fear of failure and and I tried a lot of cases. I did. I did well, but I never really. I mean, you enjoy when you get the win, but it was so stressful. And then later my career, it’s like, I’m gonna try a good case, and whatever happens, happens. The last trial I had, it was I had a plaintiff’s case. Both I and the defense Lord knew I was going to win. There wasn’t much a question about whether it’s going to win. It was a matter of how much real issues about medicals The jury found against me. It was still inexplicable, but I was disappointed, for sure, disappointed for my client, but it didn’t bother me like it used to, because I knew I had tried a good case, and I don’t know what happened. I think the jury went off of the medicals and then judge liability based on the medical issues, but it didn’t bother me. In the same way, I became so much freer to just be myself and try cases the way I wanted to, and I became a better trial lawyer, because I didn’t come from a place of fear and judgment and worry. I came from a place of I’m going to enjoy the process. I love I love trying cases, and I’m good at it. I’m not gonna worry about that. So that’s the biggest change for me, and that’s why I encourage it for so many lawyers, because we grew we grow up in a black and white arena, grades, trials, motions, losing clients, getting clients. And it’s not about that. It’s about enjoying the process. Business Development, enjoying getting out and meeting people and and speaking to groups or connecting at networking events. Enjoy that process. Life is short. Enjoy the journey. That’s what it’s all about. I love it. I love it.
Steve Fretzin [30:15]
Hey, man, let’s take a moment. Thank our wonderful sponsors, lawyer.com out there, rankings, io and pimcon coming up. Got the legal broadcasting company where this podcast is syndicated. So check that out, everybody. And of course, if you haven’t heard the my other podcast, future rainmakers, more a little more direct. My advice to you and various subjects, business development, personal branding and more. I also bring on some clients, some Rainmaker clients of mine, to just kind of tell their story and how they leverage what we worked on together to build significant books. So check that out, everybody, future rainmakers. Gary people want to check out the free lawyer. They want to learn more about you. They want to engage you. What’s the best way for them to reach out?
Gary Miles [30:55]
Website is Gary miles.net easy to find. Emails, even easier Gary at Gary miles.net and there’s an assessment there that if you want to check and see where you fall in these different areas we talked about, love to have you complete it.
Steve Fretzin [31:10]
Yeah, take some stock. Yeah. So again, I’ll reiterate where we started. My appreciation for you is without boundary. I love what you do for the community. You’re just one of the most honorable people I know in the industry and and I appreciate you being on the show sharing your wisdom. I’ve got my usual page of notes. It’s gonna make some great video clips for everybody on YouTube. And just, let’s keep it going. I think that you’ve got me scheduled or slated to be on yours coming up. And absolutely, more magic, more magic tonight.
Gary Miles [31:37]
Gary, well, I’m appreciative of you in the same way. I think, as you said, so many lawyers are afraid of business development. They don’t teach us that in law school, and they don’t really teach us it in our firms, but yet we get that stage in our career that that’s a critical component we need, and we know how to try cases, or we know how to work deals, we don’t know how to do that, and it’s out of our comfort zone. So I’m glad you’re there to show us how to do it better.
Steve Fretzin [32:01]
Well, I am in the I am in advocate for the legal industry and for the lawyers. And I’m, you know, I can only take on so many lawyers a year, just like you, but ultimately, you know, I want to help. I want to help everybody. And so this podcast and your podcast, I think, go a long way to doing that. I want to take a moment to thank everybody for joining us for the last 30 and change. Take to heart what Gary shared and what we talked about today, and you will be that lawyer, confident, organized in a skilled Rainmaker, take care. Everybody. Be safe well, and we will talk again soon.
Narrator [32:35]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.