In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jay Harrington discuss:
- Reframing business development as relationship-building
- The power of owning a book of business
- Clarifying motivation to overcome resistance to business development
- Executing business development with focus, structure, and preparation
Key Takeaways:
- Business development is not selling or persuasion but consistent, helpful relationship-building over time. The myth of “natural rainmakers” keeps lawyers from starting when business development is actually a learnable skill. Approaching business development like legal training makes it practical, repeatable, and less intimidating.
- After several years of practice, firms expect lawyers to have portable client relationships. A book of business creates leverage, autonomy, and flexibility across firms or career paths. Without one, even strong lawyers may find their options limited.
- Many lawyers avoid business development due to fear, overwhelm, or discomfort with selling. Sustainable effort starts by defining a clear personal “why,” such as freedom or stability. Because client work always takes priority, business development only happens when time is protected intentionally.
- Consistent actions like scheduled outreach, focused contact lists, and light thought leadership compound. Effective networking prioritizes generosity, warm introductions, and strategic communities. Securing a meeting is only the start; preparation and process determine whether opportunities close.
“Business Development is not some secret. It truly is just relationship building, being consistent, being helpful to people.” — Jay Harrington
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About Jay Harrington: Before joining Latitude, Jay spent more than 25 years in the legal industry as a practicing attorney and entrepreneur. He began his career in corporate restructuring with Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP in Chicago and later practiced at Foley & Lardner LLP in Detroit. In 2009, he founded his own boutique law firm in Detroit, where he represented companies and executives in complex business disputes and restructuring matters.
For the past decade, Jay has advised lawyers and law firms on business development, marketing, and strategy through his own consulting firm. He is a frequent keynote speaker and workshop leader at law firm retreats, bar association events, and professional conferences, focusing on topics such as productivity, leadership, and practice growth.
Jay is also the author of three books for lawyers—The Productivity Pivot, The Essential Associate, and One of a Kind—each focused on helping attorneys build rewarding, sustainable, and successful practices.
He earned his J.D. from the University of Michigan Law School and his B.A. from Bowling Green State University, where he played Division I baseball and competed in the 1998 College World Series Regionals.
Outside of work, Jay is a U.S. Soccer–licensed coach and manages his twin daughters’ competitive North Storm club team. He and his wife, Heather, live in Michigan with their three daughters. He enjoys spending time outdoors—hiking, mountain biking, and paddle boarding—and experience has taught him that the best ideas often come while on the trail or on the water.
Connect with Jay Harrington:
Website: https://latitudelegal.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayharrington/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Jay Harrington [00:00]
Business Development is not some secret. It truly is just relationship building, being consistent, you know, being helpful to people
Narrator [00:11]
you’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, we’ll take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, hey
Steve Fretzin [00:33]
everybody, Steve Fretzin, and welcome to the be that lawyer podcast. Wow. I’m just thrilled that you’re here. I know you’re checking us out on YouTube. Go to Steve Fretzin and just keep taking that deep dive. Because business development for 2026 is here. We need to be that lawyer. We need to be the rainmakers. We need to stop the billable hour hamster wheel. And this is the show to help you get there every single week, twice a week, bringing you great guests. And today I’ve got one of my one of the oldies, right? Jay, you’re one of the oldies. I think you’re one of the first people on my show, five, six years ago when we started, and you’ve been just an absolute, you know, statue in the legal industry and business development since I got into it. I think after you. I think I got into it after you, yeah, but just so happy that you’re here, and your quote, I think, encapsulates exactly what the topic is going to be today. So let’s jump in with the quote of the show. Here it is, you have to make time for your own priorities, or you’ll spend your time working on someone else’s. So welcome to the show and tell us why that quote.
Jay Harrington [01:30]
Yeah, Steve, great to be here. And I think when we did our prior episode, I think we did Dueling Banjos or dueling Dueling Banjos a BD, I love that. That’s so much. That was great. That was great. Yeah. So I think that that quote really encapsulates a lot of what, you know, makes either a lawyer, build a practice, achieve their goals, you know, have a rewarding career where they’re building autonomy and financial security, because the nature of the job of a practicing lawyer is truly working on someone else’s priorities. That is the job. That is what you will spend most of your time on. I mean, I think the important thing to remember here is that you need to carve out at least a little bit of your time every day to focus on your own priorities, or else, you know, the billable hours and the client demands will fill the vacuum. So I think that that’s just, you know, and you see it all the time. I’m always amazed at the way that lawyers can move mountains when a client calls with an urgent demand. It’s amazing, right? You just get the job done. But there’s not that same forcing function when it comes to your own priorities, necessarily. So you really got to make sure that it’s top of mind.
Steve Fretzin [02:35]
Yeah, yeah. We got to practice what we preach, and we have to, like, look, you’re looking at all these other people around you that are not better lawyers. They’re just more successful because they figured out this other piece of the business, which is, you know, the rain making side and, like, realizing, hey, you know, do I want my own clients and my own future and my own control, or do I want to work under someone else’s umbrella for the rest of my career? Right? So I think you and I have spent, like, a lot of time doing this. And I think we’re going to pick apart why lawyers do struggle with this, and what are a number of things. And we can go back to doing bad shows if you want. I don’t have a set structure, so we can definitely do that and have some fun with it. Yeah, but let’s everybody just so you know, Jay Harrington a partner with latitude legal, and I mean, just as a staple in the business development legal community forever now moving into more of a recruiting space. So give us a little bit how you came to be and and leading into your current role.
Jay Harrington [03:30]
Yeah, for sure. So yeah, I started as a practicing lawyer. I started my career in Chicago, where I know you’re at Steve at Skadden Arps corporate restructuring group. Did that for a number of years, ultimately moved back to the Detroit area, which is where I’m originally from, and joined Foley Lardner when they had opened a Detroit office, continued doing corporate restructuring work. I in early 2009 if you’ll remember, financial crisis in Detroit, the automotive crisis as well GM and Chrysler filing for bankruptcy. Ultimately, I decided, if I was ever going to go off on my own, hang a shingle, that was the opportunity. So I did that with a good friend, and who is my partner. We did that for several years, and then 2015 is when I made a shift. That is when I transitioned out of my firm and started doing business development, coaching, training and more general sort of strategic marketing work in a consultative firm that I consulting firm that I founded, and then, yes, that, you know, went on for close to a decade. And then just this past October, I officially joined latitude legal, which is, as you mentioned, a recruiting firm a little different than a traditional recruiting firm in the sense that what we specialize in, more than anything, is providing flexible legal talent to our clients. So you know, think of contract lawyers who have wide ranges of experience and expertise to both law firms and. And in house legal teams who need support on a flexible basis, as opposed to just a full time hire, although we do that as well. But the flex talent is, is our specialty. So I’m, you know, for the first time in a long time, I’m really trying to practice what I’ve preached for so long, which is, you much of my time now is spent doing business development. So that’s been a nice change.
Steve Fretzin [05:21]
Yeah, in the, you know, the lawyers that come to recruiters and say, You know what, I’m in a bad culture. I don’t think this is supporting my practice area. And there’s, you know, 100 reasons why a lawyer might want to talk to a recruiter and change the concern, and the problem has been that they don’t have a book of business, right? So it’s like, Hey, I’ve got this great talent. I’m a great, skilled lawyer. I don’t have a book of business, but I’m sure everybody wants me, not necessarily the case.
Jay Harrington [05:47]
Yeah, no, that’s true. I mean, there are instances where you know firms, or even in house, they’re looking for, you know, particular areas of specialty, but you know, in most cases, you know firms in particular, they’re looking for, you know, if you’re past, you know, your seventh, eighth year in your career, they’re generally looking for some sort of portable book of business. I mean, there’s always exceptions to that, but it’s, you know, it’s the thing that gives you that optionality and leverage in your career. It’s the one thing that you know. You can’t guarantee that everything will pour it over to your new home, but it’s the one asset you can kind of own, beyond your expertise and experience.
Steve Fretzin [06:24]
So then, if we know that, you know that, I know that, and the people listening know that, why are so many attorneys either content or not motivated to dip their toe in and get started on this great thing we call business development, marketing, branding, etc, yeah.
Jay Harrington [06:41]
Well, I mean, I think there’s a few things there. I mean, one is, many are just overwhelmed. You know, the job is overwhelming. I get that they can’t perceive the notion of adding something else, you know, layering something else on that seems to them both kind of mysterious and difficult at the same time, and also has this emotional component of, you know, not wanting to feel the rejection, not wanting to feel the awkwardness of what they perceive to be, you know, something difficult, like business development. So I think in some, to some extent, it’s about demystifying that and then also tapping into the demystification comes from just learning that business development is not some secret. It truly is just relationship building, being consistent, you know, being helpful to people. We can get into that more detail, yeah, but that’s a big part of it. And then I think it’s also important to just, you know, understand, like, Is this something I want? Do I want more autonomy in my career? Do I want, you know, this other aspect of my job, where I find it to be the enjoyable part of practicing law. When I started my own firm, and I really got serious about this, I realized, man, this is fun, this is exciting, this is rewarding. I like, you know, developing these relationships that, you know, I’m now in charge. I get to call the shots, you know, on my end, and people value my expertise. Like, that’s really rewarding. So tapping into what is your underlying motivation if you think you want this, like, Get clear on that, because you know that grounding in what you’re motivated by, what that vision that you want to achieve in the future is that’s really a lot of the fuel that will help you sustain the effort required to build your practice.
Steve Fretzin [08:18]
Yeah, and I’ll just, since we’re Dueling Banjos kind of guys will. I’ll just add a couple things. Number one is, I think there’s still this persona or attitude that it sells, right, that I’ve got to go out and I’ve got to sell businesses and GCS and owners and whatever on me and my firm, and I’ve got to go out and hustle and sell. And I think that’s a very backwards sort of way of thinking about it. You mentioned relationship building a lot of business. Lot of business development is relationship building, but the other part of it is they don’t have the plan, the system, the language. They haven’t gone through the education that you and I teach to understand that just like with law, I could go into a courtroom and I’ve seen My Cousin Vinny and some law and orders, and I can go run a trial. Yeah, yeah, I can fake my way through it for a few minutes till I get thrown out. But business development, just like law, it’s all a learned skill, and so just becoming a student of the game, whether you’re listening to this podcast, reading books, watching video, and just start getting acclimated with the idea that, hey, this doesn’t have to be sales. It doesn’t have to be the hardest thing you’ll ever do in your life. It can be it can be rewarding on many, many fronts, but just getting started may be the key.
Jay Harrington [09:27]
Yeah, absolutely right. It’s it that’ll it’s with any habit, right? I mean, just that getting started part is important and your point, yes, you need what I kind of described as sort of the mindset, aspect of things like really getting clear, the strategy, kind of the blueprint to work with. And then, to your point about the execution aspect, which is just so critical, and learning, like, what does this actually entail? You know, the toolkit you need to pair those two things together. And yes, get started. That is the biggest key. Start small, like, you know, again, habit formation in any respect is the appropriate and. Analogy here, because you know whether you’re trying to work out or anything. You know, anyone who knows anything will tell you to start small, like, be consistent. You know, take small steps if you you know, James clear said, if you miss, don’t miss twice. Like, these are the basics. And then, as a result of that initial effort, you’ll realize I can do this. This is not impossible. This is not some secret that the small group of rainmakers, you know, maintains a close knit circle and only converse with one another about it’s not as difficult as many people perceive it.
Steve Fretzin [10:29]
And yeah, you mean those natural born rainmakers, right? Ones that were born and came out as babies, and they’re already getting matters brought in. I think
Jay Harrington [10:36]
that’s yeah, yeah. That’s right, yeah, right. Exactly the Rainmaker do. I love
Steve Fretzin [10:40]
those I love those babies who are hard, fast salesman right off the right out of the gate. Give me my milk anyway. No, guys, it’s a learned skill, and a lot of it to your point, Jay has to do with attitude. And so let’s say that someone says, Hey, it’s 2026 I don’t want this year to be like last year. I’ve got to get my act together. What are some things that let’s work together, as we do, to kind of share maybe two or three ideas of how someone should just get started. Like, where do they start?
Jay Harrington [11:06]
Yeah, I mean, a few areas that I like to think about is, first, you’ve got to get kind of the structure in place. You know, this doesn’t guarantee anything. There’s no forcing functions for business development there that there are for your legal work, right? There’s no court order deadline, so you do have to rely on yourself and try to implement some forcing functions. I think blocking time on your calendar is a first natural step for anyone. So whether that’s 30 minute 230 minute blocks, you know, every week, that’s a good starting point for people. So block the time then the natural next question is like, okay, great. I’ve got time on my calendar. What do I do? I’m looking
Steve Fretzin [11:42]
at my screen. This is great. Thanks. Jay, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just
Jay Harrington [11:45]
scrolled LinkedIn for 30 minutes and got nothing useful done. That’s usually the default activity. So you do have to have a plan, you know, to the point you made earlier. Steve, I think that that plan should involve developing a list of your most important contacts. You know, I tend to refer to this as your key contact, or your VIP list. This concept is very, you know, recognized in sales circles where it’s like, who are your good, valuable, high potential relationships. You know, 20 to 30 people like, get them on a list so that you have a clear understanding of you know, these are people that I need to engage with that. I need to have conversations with that. I need to have consistent touch points with that. At least gives you a starting point right, then you might mix in. I want to make sure I’m doing some prospecting, meeting new people, right? Meeting new high quality contacts. So look out over the next 30 days, are there a couple of events that you might attend, you know, to meet people that might be within your target market. I think it’s also important to think about some activity that can allow your visibility and your ideas to scale to a greater extent. So think about posting on LinkedIn once a week. This is not a heavy investment of time or effort that goes into these things, but reaching out to a few key contacts every week, posting on LinkedIn, maybe attending two networking events a month. This is a way to kind of ease into this domain to a greater extent, and start getting some of those reps that will help you to build momentum and will compound over time. But I think that’s a reasonable starting point. Just a few
Steve Fretzin [13:18]
ideas, yeah, you’re not that’s not gonna, you know, blow anybody’s world apart, right? I mean, just but a couple things I’ll add. Number one is, if you’re struggling to get motivated and to block that time out, maybe find a friend, like, find another lawyer at your firm, or find another lawyer that’s a friend of yours that is also interested in business development and needs to get going. And you guys have kind of complained to each other about it, and say, Hey, why don’t we do some accountability buddy stuff. And like, Let’s get together on a Tuesday morning, you know, eight o’clock to nine o’clock, and that’ll be, you know, we’ll get on a call, we’ll hit mute, we’ll go do over the things we need to do, email five or 10 people and then come back say what we did. It’s not again, rocket science. None of this is but that’s a great way to to help get like, I can’t go to the gym, right, without somebody being there, because I’m looking for that additional, you know, movement to not let somebody else down. I can let myself down. I don’t want to let someone else down. That might be a motivator for others. Another thing is, you know, just think about, like, you know, maybe there’s some things that you’re doing that you enjoy, right? Like, I play platform, tennis and pickle and so, you know, you may play golf, you might, you know, be in some leagues, bowling leagues, whatever, like, there might be business owners and people there that you can network with. So it doesn’t have to always be, you know, some random event or group, although that, you know, looking at qualifying events and groups and talking to leaders of those kinds of places to find out if the prospective clients and the strategic partners that you’re looking to develop are there and then attending and seeing if it’s something you should join. But I think you mentioned attending, and I would say, Yes, do that, but as a precursor to maybe joining something and having some kind of consistent group that you can go to and be a part of where business can flow.
Jay Harrington [14:59]
Yeah. Yeah, totally right. It’s not about just sort of randomly showing up places. I love that. I mean, because I see that with clients I’ve coached and everything else, where ultimately they get into an organization, and then in over the course of years, start to step into leadership roles within those organizations, which just gives them so much more access to high quality people, an excuse to have conversations. And, you know, people start to see them in a different light, you know, sort of as that trusted advisor that you’re trying to audition yourself as, essentially, in the business development and networking that you’re doing. So I think that’s really important and, and I think also, you know, when it comes to, all right, I’m meeting people, I’m having conversations like, what does that look like? And I think you you’re trying to accomplish a few things. One is, you need people to have an understanding of what you do. So just sort of providing that clarity as to these are the types of clients I serve. This is in situations that I can help in, just so you have that understanding. But from there, it’s understanding that legal demand is very unpredictable, right? You’re going to have instances, as you’re just getting started, where you know you’re hoping that any particular engagement or conversation you have is going to lead to an opportunity in the near term. That’s probably unrealistic. That’s just pure luck if that happens, because the person you’re talking to at that moment has a demand for the types of services you provide. It’s more about planting seeds for the future and then continuing to nurture that relationship over time and thinking in the in that nurturing phase. How can you help this person? If you can orient yourself that way, you’re going to be visible in a way that they appreciate and build trust, that will ultimately again, have them think of you as the type of person they want to work with. I love, you know, Ari Emanuel. I don’t know if you know that name. He’s the super agent who started endeavor, and he’s like, you know, got the best network in the world, essentially. And he’s got this routine of every morning just going through his Rolodex and calling people that he knows. And he starts every conversation or ends it with the following question, how can I help you? You know, he’s looking to connect people that need that should be connected, providing resources to someone like that, orientation towards you. Know, I don’t need anything from you right now, but how can I help you that will make it more likely that when they do need someone like you, they’ll be thinking of you
Steve Fretzin [17:21]
with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings.io. Prides itself on proof, not promises. Mentality. The best firms hire rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver, get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free [email protected] today. Hey everybody. It’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice, just head over to fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you, and let’s make this your breakout year. Well, I mean, I think that goes to the science of relationship building, that it isn’t about us, it’s about the other person. And why do people like and trust us? In many cases, it’s because we are interested in understanding and care about them, and we figured out maybe ways to connect or help them accomplish their goals, connect them with people that are valuable. And so that question is at the heart of what people need to be thinking about when they’re out with their clients, when they’re out with prospective clients, when they’re out with new people to network with the CPA, whatever it might be that it isn’t about us, and yes, at the end of the day, we would love to get something out of it, and we should have systems in place to do that. But ultimately, you know, the road is paved better when we’re helping others. So talk, talk through that for a moment.
Jay Harrington [18:54]
Yeah. I mean, it’s just like you said, there’s science behind this, right? I mean, and you shouldn’t set out to, you know, engineer this in a way, right? It should be natural and organic and come from the right place of curiosity and generosity. That said, you know, if you read the book Influence by Robert Cialdini, he talks about this sort of the psychological concept of reciprocity, right? You do enough for someone else, they’re naturally going to feel inclined to want to return that favor in some way. And this works. I mean, my one of my personal favorite kind of business development tactics, and I think it’s one of my favorites, because I really enjoy doing it, and I think everyone gets a lot of value out of it, which is introducing different people in my network, right? I’ve worked hard to build a network. I want other people to benefit from that and benefit from knowing one another. So if I’m in a, you know, in a relationship, in a conversation with someone, I’m working for someone, you know, I’ll often ask them, like, Who are you looking to meet? Who would it be valuable for you to meet? Let me think about who I might know, who fits that mold, and I’ll connect you. And so I do that quite often, and I found, over time that you know, most. More often than not, and without me asking you, inevitably, the question comes up in return, which is, you know, how can I help you? You’ve made these great introductions. Is there anyone else I can introduce you to? And then I’ll, you know, if there is, I will take them up on that offer. And it’s oftentimes led to good opportunities. But that’s, that’s kind of the that’s kind of how things work, right? You make people smarter. You make people more successful. You understand what their goals are. You understand how to you know who they need to meet. And then, if you can just, you know, continually focus on that like that’s the best form of business development, because even if it’s not leading to a direct, immediate opportunity for you, I think people get a kick out of I certainly do like helping other people succeed.
Steve Fretzin [20:45]
I was going to just say, like, it’s a dirty little secret that people actually enjoy helping other people. So like, you can, you’re giving, and you’re helping and you’re being great, then they offer to help you because it makes them feel good, and they want to reciprocate. And everybody that’s like when I give a great lawyer to someone who has a need, or if I refer my CPA to someone who I know will get great value out of my CPA or my financial planner, whatever it might be, I know they’re going to come back to me with a great story about it, right? Like, I’m doing them a solid. I’m doing the financial planner salad. I’m doing, you know, me a solid. I’m feeling good. So it’s a little bit of a secret like that, your clients actually want to refer you. Here’s the piece that we need to get into though, Jay is, I don’t think they know how I think that if somebody wants to help you and they say, Well, yeah, I’d love to help you, who do you want to meet? And you’re not able to help them help you. That’s where a lot of times it falls flat, because then they do the old, well, all right, I’d love to help you. You know, I know what you do. I’ll keep my eyes open, and then it kind of goes away into the ether, right? Yeah. So I think there’s a moment where someone says, I would love to help you Who do you want to meet? And if you’re not able to sit in the mud with them and work through who you want to meet, maybe even come up with a name or two like out of their brain and helping them work through that. That’s a skill that most lawyers don’t have, and I think it, it’s one they probably need to think more about and and how they help others, to help them.
Jay Harrington [22:06]
Yeah, no, absolutely that. This gets back to the point of clarity I was describing earlier. It’s all about, yes, if you can, if you happen to know, maybe you’ve looked at their LinkedIn connections, and there’s someone they’re connected to that’s not always a good indicator of whether they actually know this person, but, you know, and you give them a couple names, great. That works really well. Otherwise, you know, thinking about, like, is there a particular job title? They can tend to be like, oh, yeah, I know, you know, this is the I know somebody, my neighbor, is the Deputy General Counsel at, you know, a company. Or you can describe a situation, right, an individual who might be facing this or, you know, a company that may be within this industry who’s dealing with these types of issues. They’re, you know, they’re exporting internationally, and they might be, you know, dealing with ITAR issues. The more specific you can be, the more helpful it is to help the other person immediately in that conversation. Because I think that’s important. Be like, oh yes, there’s two people that I know who fit this bill. Because if you can do that, then it’s like, they can immediately take action to your point. If it’s just, I’ll keep you in mind, or I’ll, you know, think about it. It’s never going to happen. It’s never going to happen. Let’s take it
Steve Fretzin [23:16]
one step further, and then we’ll wrap up with Jay’s big mistake. The other missing piece here is so, all right, so Jay, you tell me that you’ve got a lawyer that you think I should talk to about business development and someone that you’ve been talking to for a while. That’s great. Does that lawyer really want to meet me? Let’s say that lawyer doesn’t. But you make the intro anyway. Right now, I’m chasing after someone who really had no interest. You just thought he or she would, and not the case. So I might ask you, you know, after you give me a name of someone that you believe would need my help, or could use my help, that I would say, Why do you think this individual needs my help? What’s their motivation and or do they have an interest in talking with me? And by the way, would you mind speaking with them about it? Because if they tell you, I don’t want to meet that with that knuckleheads frets and forget that like that’s different than, Oh, my God, that’s so great. Jay, yes, I need that person Exactly. That’s a really important step that I think a lot of people skip. They just make these blind emails that go out and they don’t get to the result, and then you end up in this chasing game that wastes time.
Jay Harrington [24:15]
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that, you know, in all situations like this, and we’re talking about here where you know someone else is is referring you to someone they know, right? I mean, in those situations, the person making the referral, they’re essentially transferring trust. You know that they know this person that they know has a need, and they know someone who can help serve it. So the more that you can leverage that transfer of trust and have them, you know, extend that credibility on your behalf, the more likely it is to happen. So when in situations where someone is going to be referring you, you know, the more time you can spend with them. To be clear on like, yes, here’s how it should go. These are maybe some things you should mention. You know. The all those things matter greatly, as opposed to, you know, a generic, like, Intro email that really doesn’t
Steve Fretzin [25:06]
John, meet Steve. Steve, Meet John. You know, I’ll let you shake it from here. Yeah, no, that’s like saying to someone, you’re you’re crazy and you need a therapist. I’ll make an introduction to therapist, whether you want me to or not. Like, what? Who’s gonna that’s sort of insulting, maybe, or it’s like so uncomfortable, or whatever. So I think there needs to be some back end work done, not only to qualify that this connection makes sense, but also to talk up the you know, if it’s your client that’s going to introduce you to a GC, they better talk you up, because another GC doesn’t want to meet another lawyer for no reason, right? They’ve got to get that transfer all of trust, as you mentioned, and like, this is the greatest attorney I’ve ever worked with. You need to meet with this attorney? Well, then that GC is like, Well, hell yeah, I want to meet with that lawyer, yeah. So we have to go that extra mile. And I don’t know that people are doing that the right way.
Jay Harrington [25:57]
No, I don’t think so. I mean, you know, I’ve seen it, and I’ve done it myself, where I’ll provide bullet points, you know, I’ll provide a framework and be like, Hey, this is this might be helpful for you to use as a framework for crafting your email introduction, you know? Because I know you may not know everything about what I do like, to the extent you can make it easy for them and seamless and less low friction, the more likely it is that they’re going to actually do it right, because that follow through is not always guaranteed.
Steve Fretzin [26:23]
Yeah, all right. Well, listen, we have, we’ve chatted and done our Dueling Banjos for enough time we need to cut to what’s Jay’s big mistake? Yeah?
Jay Harrington [26:32]
Well, I’ll make it. I’ll keep it on theme here. So this is my first big opportunity to pitch a client. I was about a sixth year associate, a former colleague from Skadden, had moved into an in house role at a fortune 500 company and contacted me about, you know, pitching essentially his team to take over a fairly significant portfolio of work. It would have been really significant for me. You know, the mistake was I went into the meeting with coffee and bagels and was anticipating just a casual, organic conversation with the team. What I didn’t realize was that there were these underlying issues. There was some past history with the firm and the client that you know, I should have understood and gone in armed to a dress, but I was wholly unprepared. Feel like, but I have bagels. Yes, I had the bagels and coffee. I didn’t have much else. Yeah, as you might imagine, it went really poorly. You could call that a bagel. Yeah, exactly. A big, a big zero. And the, you know, the lesson learned is, obviously, you know, getting the opportunity itself is really just the starting point. Yeah. I mean, closing opportunity is everything, obviously. And if you don’t put way more effort into the finite opportunities you get to close to make sure that you’re taking advantage of those opportunities, becomes a big mistake. The Happy ending here is that after I started my own firm about two and a half years later, I ended up doing work for that client. Okay? We all came around,
Steve Fretzin [28:09]
all right, but sometimes we have to get, you know, like, fall on our face to realize, hey, I’m not gonna, you know, let that happen again. We all have those moments, but they’re they have to happen. Unfortunately, in some instances, there’s a lot riding on it, but guys, I’ll just pitch real quick, grab my book. Sales, free selling. What Jay just mentioned is you took the time and the effort or got the luck to get an opportunity in front of you, and are you going to go and pitch them? Are you going to walk them through a buying decision to make it clear that you’re the only decision, the only good decision they need to make that day? And sales, free selling, really. And I address this in my my classes all the time, that you need to have a good system for how to walk someone through a buying decision. So I will pitch my book. I don’t normally do it, but check out sales, free selling on Amazon. It’s maybe 12 bucks or something like that, but grab a copy or the the audio. So thank you so much, Jay. Let’s take a moment. Um, thank our sponsors, too, of course, rankings, io and the law her podcast, check those out online in the show notes. And Jay people want to check you out. They want to talk to you about the recruiting gig, latitude. Legal, what are the best digits?
Jay Harrington [29:10]
Yeah, sure. I mean, you can always connect with me on LinkedIn, and I’m always checking direct messages there. Otherwise you can reach me at my email at latitude, which is the letter J, last name Harrington at latitude. Legal, calm,
Steve Fretzin [29:24]
awesome, man. Well, great to have you back, and congratulations on your new, new chapter of your career and legal. And I’m very excited to in fact, I am, as we’re talking, I wrote down a name of a managing partner that I will be making an introduction to you as soon as we end this recording. So I’ll talk to him first of course, and do all of the things that I mentioned about quality introductions, so he will want to talk with you and but I’m very excited for you in this career, and I’m excited that we can collaborate and continue to create not only great content, but, you know, figure out ways to refer each other moving forward. This is what
Jay Harrington [29:55]
it’s all about. Yeah, I love it. Steve, Well, thank you first of all, and really appreciate you having. Me on the show. I love seeing what you’re doing, and love the podcast. And yeah, continue to hope to collaborate with you.
Steve Fretzin [30:06]
That’s a lot of fun, and I enjoy it as well. And hey everybody, I appreciate you hanging out with Jay and I for the last 30 again, you know, take it to heart that business development isn’t rocket science, but it is something that’s important to be a student of and to learn and to get an education, because systems and process and language and attitude and they’re all playing a role in how you’re going to be successful in growing your own law practice in 2026 so take care, everybody. Be safe, be well, and we will talk again soon.
Narrator [30:37]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.