In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jennifer Gillman discuss:
- Building rainmaking as a sustainable, early-career practice
- Shifting mindset to overcome fear and unlock visibility
- Using small, consistent actions to compound business development
- Gaining autonomy by moving from service partner to rainmaker
Key Takeaways:
- Becoming a happy rainmaker is not a late-career scramble but a long game that should begin as early as law school or the first years of practice. By consistently maintaining relationships with classmates and peers, lawyers build familiarity and trust over time. This approach replaces transactional job-seeking with organic, referral-based growth.
- A core barrier to business development is the fear of judgment, captured by the reminder that what other people think of you is none of your business. This mindset shift frees lawyers to show up on LinkedIn, speak publicly, and introduce themselves without self-consciousness. Confidence grows through action rather than perfection.
- Rainmaking does not require massive time blocks but thrives on small, intentional habits repeated consistently. Even 15 to 20 minutes a week spent nurturing relationships or learning LinkedIn and AI tools can create long-term leverage. Like compound interest, steady effort builds momentum and results.
- Rainmakers gain control over clients, schedules, and priorities, while service partners remain dependent on others for work and timing. Building a book of business early reframes BD as an investment in future autonomy rather than an added burden. This shift creates greater flexibility and career control.
“If you can develop one dollar of business, you can develop a million dollars or ten million.” — Jennifer Gillman
Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.
Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
Thank you to our Sponsor!
Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/
Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let’s make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Jennifer Gillman: Jennifer Gillman is President and Founder of Gillman Strategic Group, a legal recruiting firm that helps law firm partners find the right fit so they can thrive and enjoy practicing law. A former lawyer herself, Jennifer spent 12 years in practice before becoming a recruiter, and she is known for her candidate-focused, confidential, and thoughtful approach to career matchmaking. She earned her J.D. from New York University School of Law and her undergraduate degree from Brandeis University.
Connect with Jennifer Gillman:
Website: https://gillmanstrategicgroup.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-gillman-law-firm-matchmaker/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey everybody, before we get to the show, I just want to share that most lawyers don’t hate business development. They hate sounding salesy, and if that sounds like you or something you never want to be, then I’ve got a webinar that was just built for you called sales Free selling. How to Make It Rain without selling. It’s going to show you exactly how you can build your business your way, a sales free way. Just go to fretzin.com/events please join us for this incredibly powerful hour on February 19. I hope to see you there and enjoy the show. Everybody
Narrator [00:37]
you’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, hey everybody.
Steve Fretzin [00:59]
Steve Fretzin here and welcome back. To be that lawyer. We are the show for you guys to be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. If you’re a longtime listener, I just want to take a moment to thank you. Your support has been incredible, and we’re continuing to do for you what we can to help you be that lawyer. If you’re new to the show, welcome. You’re going to want to, you know, take notes and best you can if you’re driving, don’t do that, but you know, we’ve got the show notes and the transcripts and everything up on YouTube, so there’ll be no problem for you guys to go back if there’s something that you miss. I am absolutely super excited today for our guest. We’ve got Jennifer, who’s been not only a very incredible strategic partner for me and my business, but she is helping lawyers all over the world get their act together and not only grow business, but find their place and the better place for them to thrive in a law practice. So Jennifer, welcome to the show.
Jennifer Gillman [01:50]
Thank you so much. Steve, yeah, good to have you back.
Steve Fretzin [01:53]
And as we love to do, we’re going to do our quote of the show. And this is great one. I don’t know who said this, but maybe you could tell us. Maybe it’s something you said, but the quote is, what other people think of you is none of your business, and I love it. So tell us about that quote.
Jennifer Gillman [02:08]
That’s one of my favorite quotes. I went through a business program, a coaching when I first started my company, and I thought that the coach was the one who said that, but it’s really the guy who wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul, it was in his success principles book,
Steve Fretzin [02:23]
is that like a Campbell? Is that name? Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. Sorry, I couldn’t recall that. Oh, that’s right. I pulled that out of the air. I can’t believe I have a memory that could do that. But I think I have that book. I think I have that up on my shelf somewhere.
Jennifer Gillman [02:35]
Yeah, I’ve read it all the way through. It’s got great staff, but it’s got a lot of quotes that other people have repeated over the years, and I realized came from that book. But it just means, like, when you’re going to put a post on LinkedIn, or do a speaking engagement or introduce yourself to somebody, and you’re worried like, oh, well, they look foolish. Or Will somebody not, you know what? What other people think of you as? None of your business.
Steve Fretzin [02:57]
Yeah, I think we spend too much time worrying about other people and what they think. And I think and I think the other quote, and this isn’t quote, but I think it’s just standard, what people know is like, they’re not really thinking about you, like people think about themselves. They’re not as much as you think they’re going to care or say something, or whatever, what you’re doing. They’re not, they’re just thinking about themselves. So I think that’s a great quote. And so welcome to the show, everybody. Jennifer Gillman, president of Gilman strategic group, second or third time on the show. I’m trying to remember back, but you’ve been, you’ve been a guest second.
Jennifer Gillman [03:27]
We’ve been on bunch of webinars together, but I
Steve Fretzin [03:31]
think count those. Come on, let’s count them. They’ve been, they’ve been shows, they’ve you’ve been on a panel. But that still counts. Oh, maybe that was financial poise, actually, so maybe it wasn’t, but fantastic. Give everybody a little background on you and how you came to be and where you are today. With the business, the new book, the whole thing, sure.
Jennifer Gillman [03:47]
So I practiced law for 12 years, and I was always jealous of the people with the corner office and the big book of business who had a little more pull at the firm. And then when I became a recruiter and started talking with the partners that I was helping find their next job for, I realized a lot of them are so, so miserable. And it was, it was disappointing to me, because I figured once you got there it was wonderful, right? But a lot of them feel stuck and overwhelmed and and they’ve given up too much. And so I thought I could change the legal industry, one Rainmaker at a time, by finding them their right place. And it does work, but not fast enough for me. So we came up with the six pillars to becoming a happy Rainmaker framework to give everybody some guidance about how to be successful and happy too. And we’re just trying to get the word out.
Steve Fretzin [04:41]
Yeah, yeah. I love it one more at a time. You and I both. We’re just, we’re doing what we can to, I think, not only help people directly in the form of of recruiting for you and BD for me, but then, you know, by putting out great content and books and posts and pillars and all this stuff. You know, we’re really trying, I think in. Impact the larger community, is that part of your goal?
Jennifer Gillman [05:02]
Yes, I mean, I realized that I work. It’s so white glove and a lot of one to one conversation, it’s going to take too long to reach every unhappy lawyer. So we’re putting out as much content as we can. And actually, just recently, put out a book that’s written as a business parable. So it’s an easy read and a good introduction to the six pillars with a QR code that gets you to some extra resources if it’s something you want to pursue. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [05:31]
So I think, you know, Bob, the actual the first parable that I read that really hit me was called The Goal, which isn’t really about business development, it’s really about operations. And it really allowed me to understand, like, how do you run a company from an operation? And I didn’t read it because I was going to run a company and have a conveyor belt with, you know, products on it, but I wanted to read a book that had a parable to understand. And then Bob Berg, obviously, was the big player. My book sales, free selling, which was the first book I ever wrote, was a parable. And I don’t know about if you felt this way, but really hard. Like I can write a how to book really fast. Like I write articles in like an hour. I can knock out a good article. But when you start writing dialog and things like that, did you find that challenging?
Jennifer Gillman [06:15]
Yeah, I mean, definitely. But I’ve been telling the story of Bob big law, Sam Solow and Susie small off for years, okay? And like little anecdotes at BNI meetings or other kinds of networking groups where not everyone was a lawyer, so they didn’t really understand, and I was trying to personalize it for them. So I had this story in the back of my mind. Although I did have some help from my team and there was a lot of editing involved,
Steve Fretzin [06:41]
I really struggled with it. I mean, my editor would come back to me and go, Yeah, this isn’t, this isn’t, you know, a workable, you know, chapter. And I just, you know, writing dialog for me was just like, like, a foreign language. So I took a while. That book took longer than I think all the others, you know, maybe, combined to get done. It just was a beast. But I like it because, you know Dan, you know Scott the Scott the coach. It’s me, but wrote, I call them Scott for some reason. And then you know, having, you know Dan the lawyer, and different characters and how they interact, and the question, I don’t know, it just was, it’s just a different it’s just a very different beast. But so let’s talk a little bit about lawyers, if you wouldn’t mind, and that’s our goal. Look, they need to learn how to be great lawyers. I don’t think there’s a lawyer that that can argue that if you’re not a really good lawyer, it’s very hard to be successful. But when should when, in your opinion, should they really start thinking about business development and personal branding and getting going in that direction?
Jennifer Gillman [07:40]
Well, it may not be the popular view, but I think from law school, I mean, I wish that I had heard from the D and look to your left, look to your right, one of these people will probably be in a position to refer you business, make sure you get to know them and keep up that relationship, because it would have spurred us to think about networking and developing those business relationships early on. I know a first year associate’s not going to bring in IBM as a client, but you can keep up with the people you know from college and law school, and get to know some people who are at your level and be helpful. And you don’t have to be asking people to hire you. You’re really just trying to develop those relationships. If I
Steve Fretzin [08:27]
was a young lawyer right now, whether I’m in law school or first couple years out, I would be definitely keeping in touch with all those friends from college and law school, identifying the ones that you see great potential in, like, the knucklehead that was drunk every night that you know is going to end up in jail or whatever. Maybe not, but like, but the people that you see are striving to be great, that hustle like, right? And I would also add two things, become an expert at LinkedIn, like that would be a great skill to know in college and law school, and then be ahead of the game and you come out, and then the other one is AI, obviously, right now, if you could start to figure out how to start automating things, and how to start getting, you know, really comfortable with, with how to, you know, prompt and provide rules and get comfortable like that, I think that’s going to give you a super edge right now in in building not only a law practice, but really kind of setting yourself up better for the future.
Jennifer Gillman [09:22]
I think that’s really great advice. My college junior has a very active LinkedIn profile.
Steve Fretzin [09:29]
I wonder why good mama. So
Jennifer Gillman [09:31]
much you can do with LinkedIn, even as a student, so that when you’re reaching out to people later, it’s not looking like you’re begging for a job. It’s looking like a relationship that you’ve developed over time.
Steve Fretzin [09:44]
Yeah, I have to wait for my teenager, he’s a freshman in college, to come to me and say, Hey, Dad, you seem to know a lot about LinkedIn. You know what he what should i? That may never happen, but if I said to him, I think Andrew, that you should get done, that’s out, right? Dad’s dad doesn’t know what he’s. Talking about. So I’m, you know, he’s doing these great kids, but he’s gotta, he’s kind of come up with things on his own, I think, or hear from another parent, maybe, or another team, from a teacher, then he’ll do it all right. So we, we need to start developing relationships early. Maybe you’re a couple years in in, you know, are you able to go out and just start developing the book when you’re just two or three years in? Or is that? Is that unheard of? I mean,
Jennifer Gillman [10:23]
some people can, I’m working with a candidate now who is only seven years out and has over $2 million of business. Hello, possible. Yeah, it’s not generally what happens? I mean, that’s the average second year associate isn’t bringing things in, but the average second year associate can start building a brand. Can start thinking about, what kind of business development activities do I enjoy? What do I have an affinity for? What am I good at? And start working it into their schedule on a repeatable basis. And you know, you can’t do all your business development on December 31 for the year. You have to put it on your calendar. You have to stick with it and get some help from your firm. Most firms have the marketing personnel that could really steer you in the right direction and do some of the legwork. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [11:13]
So I love it. It’s, you know. The other thing is, I think a young lawyer should be thinking about the we, not the I, meaning that you open up a door with a friend of yours, or you open up a door with your uncle who owns a company, and maybe you go with you know, one of your senior partners, right? And you do it together. You may or may not get any credit for that, from a standpoint of origination, but from a standpoint of adding value to the firm and starting to get experience and getting into a some form of a habit of thinking about business development as a part of your life and your job, not as an afterthought or not when you’re 20 years in and don’t feel like you’re alone. I think that that a lot of lawyers feel like they can’t do it because they’re only two years out, and who’s going to listen to them, and they’re not well then, yeah, but you’re part of something you’re not necessarily on your own.
Jennifer Gillman [12:02]
I agree with that wholeheartedly. You know, the psychic credit that you build up the goodwill at your firm, is what propels you to partnership later on, or to getting some marketing dollars and resources invested in you. And what I tell a lot of the more junior people who want to first start out is you can talk to the people who are at your level, the people who are more junior at the client may change jobs two or three times before you make partner, and they may be in a position to refer work to at some point, and sometimes just going places and trying to be helpful helps. So it’s everybody’s talking about how they need a good college counselor for their kids, and you’re the one who actually goes back to the office, gets the contact information and emails it to them an hour after the event, they remember that you had follow through. Yeah, so it’s
Steve Fretzin [12:54]
a lot about it is, is not only developing relationships, like we said, you know, who’s to your left, to your right, but I think it’s also to your point and in the Go Giver. And what you and I, I think preach and practice daily is, how are we not only being memorable, but I think what makes us memorable is our ability to give and to help. One of the concerns lawyers have is like, I don’t know anybody. How am I going to help? So how do we circle that square?
Jennifer Gillman [13:17]
Well, I mean, depending on whether you like people or you’re a little bit more of an introvert, you can choose activities. I enjoy networking because I love meeting people. I love being in rooms with people. It gives me energy. But you know, there are people who find that to be the last thing that they would want to do. And you can build a network online. You can build a network by writing an article and having it published, you can call one client, take one person to coffee. You don’t have to be in a room full of people, but for those of us who enjoy people, you can think of how to go to a conference in your area of expertise and get to know people. If you go year after year, maybe put in an RFP to be a speaker there maybe, you know, you get a lot of gravitas if you’re the one on stage speaking and you just really being where the people you want to meet are helps. You can’t be handing out your business card and asking them to give you, you know, a new case, but you can be somebody that they say, Oh, hey, Steve, how are you? It’s nice to see you again. And you have to think about laying the groundwork for that ahead of time.
Steve Fretzin [14:30]
Yeah. And then I’ll throw in on top of that, which I wholeheartedly agree with, is think about, not necessarily, how you can give them business, because as a young lawyer, that’s going to be challenging. Like you don’t have your own clients, it’s hard to you know. You know necessarily give someone a matter, right? But you know that they want to meet CPAs, you know they want to meet financial planners. You know that they want to attend events, and if you can somehow include them in your network, and hopefully, young lawyers are thinking about building their network wide so they know a lot of people, and they’ve got. Different types of professions covered. And then once you’ve built that out wide, you know, then you, obviously, you’re looking to also draw it, draw it down deep with specific strategic partners. But one of the ways we develop strategic partners is by giving and adding value and trying to be so, whether it’s a college counselor or a therapist or or just some, some personal connection, a handyman, handy person, right? Or is it that you’re are giving them a matter or connecting them with a strategic partner? Those are all ways that that we help. I have a networking event that I run every month, and it’s only an hour, but I’ll invite people to come in and, you know, lawyers to come to Hey, come and meet these other people, these other lawyers that are going to be attending, and it’s all about giving, and people walk away with two or three good connections, and people that want to throw them work and all kinds of stuff. And, you know, I’m not making a direct introduction, but I’m really kind of bringing them in to meet 1015, people, which could lead to, you know, and does lead to connections. So I think to your point like, you know, knowing people, yes, giving to people and starting to build your reputation as a giver. You’ve done really well with that.
Jennifer Gillman [16:06]
Well, I’ve tried to develop my network, as you said, very wide, because I want to be able to solve everyone’s problem no matter what it is. Yeah. So I only work with rainmakers who are looking for a better platform for one reason or another, but I talk to all kinds of people, whether they’re lawyers or not, and I tried to steer them in the right direction and give them some resources or some introductions, because I want to be able to say, you need a travel agent. I have one. You don’t want to be a lawyer anymore, and you need a career counselor. Here’s somebody I highly recommend. And you know, I I often recommend business development coaches, because sometimes there are lawyers that don’t know where to start. I mean, we, we can give them some advice, but sometimes working one on one with someone like you is a little bit easier than getting started on their own.
Steve Fretzin [16:55]
Yeah, that’s yeah, we’re gonna, we’re gonna shave some years off of the whole figuring it out yourself kind of routine. And I do, I do encourage lawyers to become, and, you know, I’m saying this ad nauseam, maybe, but like to be a student of the game, to read your book, to read my books, to, you know, to, you know, get on YouTube and start watching, you know, videos I learn a lot about smoking meat and about a new car that I may want to buy, or about how to use AI from watching YouTube videos. That’s kind of how we learn I need to fix something in my home, and I’m not a very handy person. I’ll just put that out there. I think my wife even said, Should we get the handyman to change that light bulb? I was like, I can change our light bulb. Are you? You know, come on, give me a little bit of credit. But ultimately, you know, that’s how, you know, lawyers can really start getting engaged in the mindset and in the actual practical side of business development. Hey everybody. Steve Fretzin, here [email protected] They don’t just market law firms. They help them grow. From connecting millions of consumers to trusted lawyers to smarter intake and industry leading events, they’re building stronger connections across legal, visibility, intake, events, growth. That’s lawyer.com Check them out today with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings.io. Prides itself on proof, not promises. Mentality. The best firms hire rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases, other law firm, marketing agencies can’t deliver, get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free [email protected] today. Hey everybody. It’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch, it’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you. And let’s make this your breakout year. Once somebody has gotten past three, four or five years. How do you talk to them about really leaning in to get to that first million because I think you and I both know that recruiters are looking for that million dollar mark. That’s sort of the sweet spot of how lawyers can control their destiny and really have that freedom and independence. And there’s a lot of lawyers that aren’t there yet, a lot of lawyers that aren’t there yet that that, but that’s sort of their goal. How are you helping to help them? Or how are you helping them to kind of drive to start thinking about that kind of a number, that kind of a book?
Jennifer Gillman [19:30]
Well, I I think that is a very packed question. I love them. You, you mentioned watching YouTube videos. We’ve created the happy rainmakers video series. They’re six minutes each, and it’s rainmakers who have made it sharing business development advice. I think you did some for us. We’ve got some experts helping you with different things. So if you want to learn about that, you know, we’ve got a YouTube channel for that. In terms of getting to that first million you’d be surprised. There are. Are Some firms that don’t require a whole million dollars from somebody who’s an up and coming person, so you shouldn’t feel disqualified entirely. And then there are other firms that used to look at a million, that are looking at three or four or 5 million, as everybody’s rates are getting so high and inflation and happening. So there’s not a magic number that is good for every firm. But when you’re trying, you know, I always say, if you can develop $1 business, you can develop a million dollars or $10 million it’s getting over the mindset of, I can’t I’m not a rainmaker. I’m not a business developer. And once you do it, once you have to think back to how it happened and replicate those activities and talk to more people who were like that client or like that referral source, and try and look at the ROI of the activities you’re engaging in. Your firm likely gives you some kind of marketing budget you want to use it wisely if you go to the same conference every year and you’ve never gotten even a nibble from it, but it cost 1000s and 1000s of dollars. Maybe after a bunch of tries, you want to dedicate that money to something else. If there’s something, there’s one networking group that’s really great, double down and try and create some extra activities with that. Set up some extra meetings with those people. Find another group that’s like that. It’s really a matter of refining your approach as you collect more information.
Steve Fretzin [21:27]
Yeah, well, that’s, I think that’s where systems come in, having six pillars, having, you know, I talk about planning and process and performance improvement, because I think whether you’re looking to be a great chef, athlete, business developer, anyone that has a plan, good processes or systems and a way of then making improvements. Sort of hard to fail. I would say organization. If you’re not organized and you don’t like have a way of figuring out how to manage and master your time. And then lastly, I would say consistency. I think if it’s just random acts of this and random acts of that. It’s going to take you a long time. But if you can produce, you know, an hour a day, two hours a week, whatever it is, as long as it’s consistent, you just, you know, how are you, you know, posting on LinkedIn, just as an example, oh, once every quarter, once, whenever I feel like it. No, you’re posting once a week, and then twice a week, and then, right, and getting better at it as you go. Those are all the things that are going to allow someone to grow a career. And what’s your take on the career difference between the service partner and the Rainmaker from I mean, we understand they’re all busy. We understand their stress in both scenarios. But how are you seeing people’s mindsets different between the service partner and a rainmaker.
Jennifer Gillman [22:43]
I think that experience of being a service partner versus a rainmaker is like night and day. That is the reason I tell every lawyer, no matter how Junior, that you really should understand the business of a law firm and understand how to develop your own clients, because as a rainmaker, you bring in the matter. You decide who gets staffed to the team. You decide when to schedule the first meeting. You decide on most of the deadlines, and it doesn’t have to be when your kids school play is on. You know, you can make sure that you go on that vacation or make it to that doctor’s appointment or get home for that special event in your family’s life. But if you’re a service partner, it’s very hard to say no. You’re at somebody else’s mercy on the time, all the time. So when they schedule a meeting and it’s in the middle of something, it’s really hard to say no, very often. And you know, to your point, you said, if you can figure out a way to spend an hour a day or two hours a week on business development. I would say that when you’re first approaching it, even if you could carve out 20 minutes a week, if you can do anything at all, some very small activity that is done consistently builds, like compound interest, and then, you know, the neural pathway is form in your brain, and you’re like, what? When I post on LinkedIn once a week, I’m getting all this engagement. Maybe I’ll try it twice a week, and you’re more likely to want to do it when you develop a habit. But I would much rather see a lawyer spend, you know, 15 minutes a week than not at all, because that 15 minutes leads somewhere.
Steve Fretzin [24:20]
Yeah, really brilliant and spot on. And you know, I’m talking with lawyers every day, some that are looking to build that half a million to million dollar book, some that have multi million dollar books. And I’m very blessed that I get to talk with with ambitious people that that are willing to talk to me, willing to call me and have that conversation. Many, many aren’t, because they’re just scared of what it means. Means more work. It means time away from family. It means these things, and what I try to explain to them is, when you have a plan and when you have systems, and when you learn business development and time management at a high level, you actually get a lot. You get more time, right? You have more control, more time. But you have to make an investment right to in yourself to get those skills in place so that you can be efficient with your time. And that’s a tough pill to swallow, because people are just overwhelmed most of the time. So how? Let’s wrap up with one more question, which is, how do you coach or talk with lawyers who want to build a book of business or are in the process of building a book of business? Book of business, but are feeling that stress of the billable hour and the time crunch and the pressures they’re that they’re facing every day?
Jennifer Gillman [25:30]
Well, I have to acknowledge that they’re correct. They do have a lot of stress, and they are working a lot of hours, but this is an investment in your career and your future. This you know, all that other work is for the firm, for somebody else’s clients. This work is for you, and it’s, you know, taking a few minutes now when you’re a little bit tired and you’d rather do something else, is an investment in not being measured by the sheer number of hours you can bill and collect on later, once you become more of a rainmaker, you’re bringing in revenue by bringing in clients and by the hours you work, so people are a lot less focused on that hours number, and you get a lot more of your time back.
Steve Fretzin [26:10]
Yeah, you know, it’s similar to having the time to read a book or work out or prepare a meal versus ordering fast food, like you have a choice to make. You know, do you want to do things in a way that’s productive for your life, or do you want to do things that might be more challenging or take them more time, but you know, are you just going to stay the course and eat that Snickers bar and kind of, you know, crunch through it every day, day after day? So a lot to think about everybody with this. I have one more question for you, Jennifer, and you knew what’s coming. What’s Jennifer’s big mistake?
Jennifer Gillman [26:40]
Well, I have to say I have two when I was still a practicing lawyer, My biggest mistake was I didn’t think I could become a rainmaker, and I didn’t try. And I wish I had known you and had read your books, because I might have had a different career when I was still practicing law. And my biggest mistake now is not having started my company sooner, I was working with someone else, and there was some friction, just like lawyers are working in the wrong environment. And every day, there’s friction and stress, and it’s hard to achieve what they want to and then they finally move and say, Oh, wow, this is so much better. I knew it was time to go out on my own, but I thought I was an English major. I can’t be a business owner, and you can do anything you put your mind to, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [27:26]
So, yeah, the lesson is, lesson is, sometimes we just have to have a little bit of a leap of faith and trust ourselves, and good things happen, right? I mean, I think when I started my business, I was just about to get married, we had just bought a house, we had sold our condos. Like, you know, there was just, I, you know, I was, you know, unemployed for that time before, you know. So, like, all this stuff was happening, but you know, you just have to have some, have some confidence, and make some, some decisions. But you know, also do your research, right? Like, know what you’re what you’re walking into, really, really great. So let’s take a moment just thank our wonderful sponsors, lawyer.com We’ve got rankings. Io, amazing, all of them, and then law her podcast with Sonia. So check those all out in the show notes. Everybody, all right. Jennifer, this is your big chance tell us about how people get in touch with you, and, most importantly, how do they get your new book? Sure.
Jennifer Gillman [28:17]
So we have a very built out website at Gilman strategicgroup.com you can find all of the six pillars, resources and links to all of those videos I mentioned. And the happy Rainmaker was written as a business parable because I am Bob Berg’s biggest fan, and I’ve read the Go Giver probably 50 times. It’s a slim, short novel that you can read on any plane trip you take, just tuck it into your carry on and learn something
Steve Fretzin [28:47]
and read that right after the happy Rainmaker, right? Yes, okay. And people can find you on you know, LinkedIn, your website is yes.
Jennifer Gillman [28:58]
I post on LinkedIn several times a week we try to give a lot of really good content. There’s a landing page for the happy Rainmaker book.com but you can buy it on Amazon and wherever you buy your books. And the audible will be released soon, for those of you who want to kill two birds with one stone and work out and listen at the same time, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [29:19]
So buy the book, give it a kind review. Five stars, great comments, and as long as you’re doing that for Jennifer, also, you know, for this podcast, give us a kind review. Give us some stars, and let’s, let’s spread the word. We’re Jennifer and I are all in on helping attorneys to be that lawyer, confident, organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Thank you, Jennifer, and thank you everybody for hanging out with us and be safe, be well, and guess what? We will talk again very soon.
Narrator [29:49]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com Com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal, business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.