Jocelyn Brumbaugh: Leveraging the Marketing Gold in Your Firm

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jocelyn Brumbaugh discuss:

  • Random acts of marketing.
  • The five steps to fully leverage everything you do.
  • Headline, content, and insight.
  • Creative content marketing and getting newsletter opens.

Key Takeaways:

  • Mine for things your firm is already doing well – you’re already doing a lot of good things, think about them as news.
  • Marketing news is just small wins done all the time by your employees that you can use to stay top of mind with your clients.
  • It is important to have a firm LinkedIn page, not just your personal page. It will make your personal page look better and help your business to look more professional.
  • You have gold, it can be used for more than you are currently using it for.

“There’s so many good things happening at firms that they can use as touch points, and they don’t think about what is news in the way that we do. So, if they take that news and consistently put it through the five steps, that’s how you raise profile.” —  Jocelyn Brumbaugh

Connect with Jocelyn Brumbaugh:  



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Email: [email protected]

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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.



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Narrator, Jocelyn Brumbaugh, Steve Fretzin


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [00:00]

And we have this five step process that I will get into a little bit more that really allows attorneys to fully leverage everything that they do to make sure that they capture all the news. Because every there’s so many good things happening at firms that they can use as touch points and they don’t think about what is news in the way that we do. So if they take that news and consistently, put it through these five steps, that’s how you raise profile.


Narrator  [00:30]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:54]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I hope you’re having a lovely day. I know I am. Even though it’s cloudy and thundering outside. I’m about to take a beautiful trip up to Michigan to go muskie fishing with my boy, we’re going to catch some monster muskies. And looking forward to that and getting away for a little bit and shutting down. But listen, we all need to do that we all need to get some time away and D kind of decompress and, and this will be my opportunity. But before I leave, I’m going to give you guys a special treat. And that is an old friend of mine. I’ve known for many years, we sort of lost contact now. I think we’re getting back together. I’m so happy to have her on the on the show. She’s the founder of building partners, and it’s Jocelyn Bronco. How’s it going, Jocelyn?


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [01:39]

I am. Well Steve, how are you?


Steve Fretzin  [01:40]

I’m doing well. As I mentioned I’m about to head out. So you know, I’m wrapping up the show. Yeah, lucky duck. I’m gonna go and well, it’s sort of lucky. I’m gonna be exhausted. So fishing for muskie is different than fishing for other stuff. You basically stand on a boat and you have to cast a massive piece of equipment like a huge rubber fish with hooks coming out of it like 50 yards and then bring it in and 50 yards. And you do that all day and you hope that you get a bite. So I might regret this trip. But I know I know. My son will enjoy it. So I’ll be okay. Sounds like a lot of work. Yeah, so much for vacation. Right? It’s probably more about bonding than it is about anything but anyway, that’s this show is not about me. I don’t want to make it about me and my my my vacation. Let me do me a favor and give a little background a little color on yourself and your your your because you have a very long history and legal. So I’d love to hear that shared with my audience.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [02:34]

Sure. Thanks. So, so I grew up in PR and communications, I started out in consumer and then after 911 happened, I was recruited to start up the PR department at Foley and Lardner and this is 2001 when the world was very different, right law firms had never had a layoff. I mean, it was a really long time ago. And I wasn’t planning to stay in legal at all. I was planning to go back to hocking Jim Beam and Taco Bell. And but it turns out, I loved working with law firms. I loved that my products were really smart attorneys and the cool insights that they had into what was going on in business. So fell in love, love that was at Foley for six or seven years. And then I went over to Baker McKenzie and ran global communications for them for many years. And that was an amazing opportunity. And for their I took a little bit of a shift I was I was recruited to work for Citadel, which is used as a hedge fund here in Chicago. And that was an amazing opportunity to me, and it blew my mind for a couple of reasons. You don’t think that at Baker McKenzie were great. And I was opening up a new office somewhere around the world every other month, but every other month, we started from scratch. And every other month we were chickens with our heads cut off, because we never wrote it down. That process was just not something that law firms talked about at that time. So moving over to financial services, where your focus is innovation and process and getting better at everything every day. That blew my mind. And that was the impetus for starting building partners, because I knew that there are these random acts of marketing. And that’s how a lot of lawyers and law firms really try to raise their profile and it doesn’t work. And so we take the process driven approach of a financial services company, and we apply that to law firm marketing. So I’ve been running building for about eight years now it’s going great. Our business really falls into two streams. Now we do a lot of project work for amla, 100 firms, a lot of kind of a lot of work that sort of falls in between marketing and operations. But my favorite part about what we do, Steve, is we serve as an outsourced marketing department typically for firms with like 15 to 100 attorneys. I love that part we come in and we’re able to really make a difference and raise these firms profiles.


Steve Fretzin  [04:55]

Yeah, and you mentioned something that really piqued my interest which was a Random Acts of marketing Can you can you do a better job of of just explaining what you meant by that?


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [05:05]

Sure. So it’s very, you know, law lawyers practices are often very cyclical, you know, when you get a bigger firm, you’ve got bankruptcy and corporate that sort of balance each other out. But for a lot of law firms, it’s feast or famine. So when they are slow, they think, Hey, I have to market and they start to do this thing and this thing on their website and have the speaking engagement. And then when they’re busy, marketing is the last thing on their mind. And it becomes so random. And a lot of times they’ll do something great. They’ll they’ll win an award, they’ll speak, they’ll hire someone new. And they’ll just take it and maybe do one thing with it, maybe they’ll put it on their website, maybe they’ll buy an ad and crane. So just do one thing. And it’s so random. And we have this five step process that we’ll get into a little bit more that really allows attorneys to fully leverage everything that they do to make sure that they capture all the news. Because every there’s so many good things happening at firms that they can use as touch points, and they don’t think about what is news in the way that we do. So if they take that news and consistently put it through these five steps, that’s how you raise profile.


Steve Fretzin  [06:14]

Well, now you now You’ve piqued my interest and something else. I don’t know that I have another question other than Can you talk us through what the five steps are that you’re that you’re mentioning, because that that to me? Sounds like a direct roadmap that law firms could say, hey, you know, if I follow these five steps, then maybe I’m gonna get somewhere that I currently haven’t been?


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [06:33]

Yes, that’s exactly and, and I would love to talk about the five steps. But I have to put in a caveat, okay, that these are not five tips. You cannot pick number two and number five and say I did Jocelyn proud. That’s not how it works. There’s five steps. And there’s no point in doing steps four and five, which are the money steps, the good ones, if you don’t do one, two, and three.


Steve Fretzin  [06:56]

So it’s it’s it’s not individual steps. This is a process. These are five things that work in tandem with each other to get a particular outcome a better outcome.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [07:05]

That was beautifully said, That is exactly right. All right.


Steve Fretzin  [07:07]

I’m on a roll. So let’s, let’s take me through them. And then I may, you know, pepper you with some questions as we as we kind of go through the steps.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [07:15]

That is perfect. Okay, so step one is mining for what the firm is already doing well. And so I touched on this a little bit when we were talking when I was talking about all good things that are happening at firms. So you know, our we’re a little bit different than other consultants in our space, because we say that you don’t have the attorneys don’t have to change to raise their profile. They’re already doing a lot of good things. They’re just not thinking about them as news. So you need to start out with step one about capturing all the things that you do that are great, matriculation, right and January, everybody moves up to partner. You know, when you hire new people, when you have a speaking engagement, when you have a board appointment, when you are a panelist on a webinar, or when you have a win that you can talk about with client approval. All of those things are news, they’re great ways to have a touch point with your client.


Steve Fretzin  [08:05]

Yeah, I love that. And so they’re just going about their day. They’re not they’re not realizing that one lawyer is, you know, working a really interesting case. And another lawyer is really involved in Dei, right? diversity, equity, inclusion, and other lawyers. They’ve got all this stuff going on. But no one’s really considering how that all works together. Yes, and all


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [08:25]

the great things that they can use to stay top of mind with their clients. And there’s one thing I want to talk about, about how you position your news. And that is you need to be sure to position the news as thought leadership and not as administrative and let me explain what I mean by that. So let’s say, you know, like, a month ago, I spoke to the CBA to the Chicago Bar Association. If I wrote a headline that was Jocelyn brown boss spoke to the Chicago Bar Association, and I put that there is one person in the whole wide world who would click on that, and that is my mom, there’s no one here, right? But if I said Jocelyn Brahma gave insight on how the six person jury system is going to change. That’s the same presentation. It’s the same presentation I agreed to a really long time ago and it snuck up on me and it was took a really long time to put the deck together write the same presentation, but I’m capturing it at this as the thought leadership and now it’s so much it has such a bright broader audience it’s I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s clickbait it’s still me. But like, it’s but this is a way to make sure that you’re capturing the thought leadership portion of what you’re doing. You know, I see a lot of times and people signature Steve, it’ll say like, I got you but it’ll say like, I wrote a book. Like, that’s not a headline, like tell me what the content is. That is that that’s the news portion.


Steve Fretzin  [09:47]

Gotcha. So that’s step one mining for success. And again, that top of mind thought leadership finding that angle that that you know, that maybe you haven’t seen.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [09:57]

Yes. Okay, awesome. So step two, is putting the news on your website. And you know, a lot of folks will do step two and say I marked it. And so I want to remind you that we’re only on step two. But a couple of things about step two. So, you know, we work on a lot of website redesigns. And we know from analytics that the pages that that potential clients go to the most on a law firm website is the homepage, Attorney bios, and the contact us page because we’re looking for your phone number. So make sure that the news is dynamically tagged to those pages, because that’s where people are going. Make sure you’ve got news on the headline headlines on the homepage. That’s that’s, that’s cycling through all the time. So there’s new stuff. And just be sure to put it in the places that your your prospects eyeballs are.


Steve Fretzin  [10:48]

But can you define news? Because is news what you mentioned, where you’re speaking at the CBA on a subject was news that you were in the actual media, with news?


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [10:59]

So I would say all those things, you know, I didn’t mention media mentions, but that’s a great other option for something else that you should look at if you’re quoted in an industry publication or some local publication. Yes, that is also news. But remember, the headline is not Steve Fretzin was quoted in cranes. It Steve Fretzin gave insight into this thing in cranes, you know, that third party credibility is still really important. But that’s not the news. The news is your insight. So you get more people to click on


Steve Fretzin  [11:27]

  1. Got it. Terrific, terrific. So So in just making sure that that that that news is on the main pages that people are, so most attorneys and law firms don’t even know that they either know what analytics are or actually look at their analytics. Can you just explain why that’s so important?


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [11:45]

Yes. So Google Analytics is something that you can add, it’s a little piece of code that you can add to your website for free. And you should do that now. Because it’s not of any help for you the day that you put it in, and you need to put plug in the code and then wait a couple of months. And then you can go in and see trends. What are the pages that folks are going to how long are they spending on the site? How are they getting to your site? Is it from Google? Is it from an ad that you have? Is it from some somewhere else? Those are really important things to know? Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [12:15]

And I look at mine all the time. And again, I’m tracking how long someone is on my site. I’m tracking what pages they’re going to where they’re coming from. And it helps me then alter and adapt my marketing messaging or how I’m how I’m putting things out there, you know, or seeing trends that I want to repeat or add on to right. So that is that is that things that you that you’re able to then use for recommendations to your clients? Yes, that’s exactly it. Yeah. Kind of spoon fed spoon fed you that one. But that’s okay. Right. Hey, listen, you know, it’s these are important things that lawyers just I don’t know, that they think of, or that they’re taking action on when it’s it’s really critical. Like, there’s a there’s a saying in management, I’m sure you know, but if you can’t measure it, you can manage it. And analytics is exactly that. Yeah, that’s exactly right. Okay, we’re moving on step three.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [13:07]

So step three, is you take that news, and you put it on your firm’s LinkedIn page. And I should pause there for a second, because I know that you’ve got some smaller firms that also listen to your podcast. And it is really important to have a firm LinkedIn page, not just your personal bio. And that’s there’s a couple of reasons behind that. The first one is that it makes your personal bio look better. You know, there’s a, there’s a stylized logo that appears when you type in your firm name. But that if you don’t do that, you just get that sad gray box, and it makes it look like you did, the place that you’re working at is not legit. And the only way that you can fix your profile is by creating a firm linked in page, it’s very easy. You just grab a hero image, you grab the about section that you already wrote this on your website. But that is a critical step. So that’s kind of step 2.5.


Steve Fretzin  [14:00]

Okay, in the other thing is, Are people visiting the LinkedIn page for a firm maybe as often as they are visiting the actual website? Is that becoming like their second or alternative website in some ways?


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [14:14]

So that is possible. That’s not the reason that I tell folks to post it to the to the front page to create a for from page one is to make your bio look better. Okay. The other one is that I find a lot of attorneys are a little bit hesitant when they come to LinkedIn. They don’t want to say, Oh, if they feel uncomfortable posting something, oh, I spoke at the CBA or, you know, I was at claims litigation management’s conference. And so what sort of is the the training wheels for this is to post it to your firm LinkedIn page, because then it looks like the marketing fairies did it. Then you can take that content and share it and say, Oh, I’m so honored that this happened. And so you’re right that the individual content that’s posted by people gets more views than content that’s posted by pages. But I love this interim step to sort of ease attorneys into feeling good about talking about their accomplishments on social media.


Steve Fretzin  [15:13]

And just I just want to add a little bit of flavor to with with LinkedIn. And that is, if you have a personal profile, as a lawyer that is not complete with a photo with a background with with all that information, summary, phone number email, you may want to get on that, because what I’m finding is that I’m spending more time looking at LinkedIn profiles, than I am actually looking at a law firms website, and the profile there, I just find it to be more I get to see more of their background. And just to me, it’s more interesting, especially if there are reviews and other elements, are you are you seeing that as well or recommending that?


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [15:48]

Oh, for sure, it’s way more interesting to find out who you know, in common to see where they went to scroll. And you know, LinkedIn is set up, that you can grab the information really quickly, a lot of lawyer bios on their websites are a little longer and not as easy to read. And LinkedIn is so easily digestible, you can look really quickly, you know, you see those those stylized logos, which are so important, because each of those those logos for the companies that are firms that you’ve worked with, before, you know, they all that brand means something. So it’s great to look at those and capture that really quickly. And you know, for those of your listeners that Google themselves, they probably have figured out that, you know, LinkedIn is a very credible source. So a lot of times, if you Google yourself, LinkedIn might come up as the first the first item that’s returned even higher up than your law firm bio page, because your law firm website doesn’t get as many views every day as LinkedIn does. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [16:43]

Okay. Well, I just Yeah, so we’re both in agreement on that. So are we at 2.5, or 3.0? Because we are at


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [16:49]

three, thank you for asking. So we are posting the news to the firm LinkedIn page. And a couple of things that I want to mention. Social media has trained us that we have no attention span anymore. So no longer does anyone look at a post, that’s just text. So it’s very important that your posts have images attached to them. And the images that draw our eye the most as human our faces. So try really hard to include the face of the person who wrote the article. You know, there’s some times when your firm wins the best lawyer or Super Lawyer accolade, and you have to just put the firm, that’s not going to get as many eyeballs as posts with faces.


Steve Fretzin  [17:33]

Now I will, I’m gonna push back a little bit, not all the way a little bit, that I’ve had some success in what I call doing a rant, where I kind of come up with a subject that draws someone in. And it’s amazing how many people will read No Picture, No logo, nothing. And they’ll just read my rant comment on it, give their opinion. And I also find myself getting sucked into, for example, a frank Ramos who’s a guy down in Miami who who’s all over LinkedIn, and I just get sucked into reading his rants where he’s going off about something or even, you know, Dan Gershenson, since we’re all improvisers, folks, and I just get sucked into reading his rants because he’s got such a, a, kind of a terrific opinion. So I think that that while photos and in, maybe we talked about video, but it might be best, but I also find that I’m I don’t know how I’m able to keep my attention on a rant, but I am. So I don’t know if that’s something that’s something that maybe it’s certain individuals are working or that are getting pulled into.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [18:34]

I love that. And if you if folks who are listening, have the time to do that. That is fantastic. I mean, that would be step 27. Right? Like, I’m looking for things that folks can do that’s going to that makes them not have to change. Like that’s the point of this is just to make sure that you that you don’t have to do another thing, you don’t have to write another piece of content, and you can still raise your profile. But yes, if you want to follow Steve’s lead on that, do it.


Steve Fretzin  [19:00]

Yeah, I mean, it’s again, it’s probably more about AV testing or just trying out like, you know, I didn’t believe in rants or non picture things. And then I did one and I got a ton of traffic traffic on it and in, in social, you know, back and forth. And I thought wow, that’s really interesting. But again, I most of my posts include a picture of face your I think you’re absolutely right on that. And you’re spot on with your with your advice, too. So cool. So So what’s step four, then?


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [19:27]

Oh, one more point about step three. Oh, so LinkedIn image that the space where you put the LinkedIn image is horizontal, and no matter how much weight have gained during COVID, you are still a vertical creature. So it is very important when you take a photo that it is sized properly. We have all scrolled through our LinkedIn feed and seeing someone’s eyebrows and nothing else. So please, please, please don’t just take your bio photo which is vertical. Slap it in that space and have me looking up your nose.


Steve Fretzin  [19:57]

Yeah, yep, agreed. Good.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [20:00]

So okay, so now step four, you’ve been waiting, I know you’ve been


Steve Fretzin  [20:04]

sitting, you’re so excited like anticipating step four.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [20:08]

Alright, so step four is the money step. And this step, this step is so effective. And I can tell you that every time my team and I go into a new firm, and we say, Hey, this is our processes, how it works, the managing partners will shake their head and step four, and say, This isn’t going to work. And without fail, they come back to us afterwards and say, Oh, my gosh, this works amazingly well. So and it needs, you need to have a firm of a certain size, which is why we typically work with firms with 15 attorneys or more. But the step four is circulating that LinkedIn post internally. And this does a couple of things. So even before COVID, law firms were not great about keeping people informed and what was going on, you know, the corporate guy might not know what the woman in litigation is working on, firms get very siloed. So to just take this post, and send it around internally helps to form that glue, it helps everybody to be excited about a win, it helps you to know how to cross sell the kinds of things that are going on, a lot of firms think internal communication and get really scared, they feel like they need to take a stance, I’m just saying, copy the LinkedIn post, and send it around internally. Because it does so much that internal communications pieces one, the other piece, I mean, you know, Steve, like associates are moving like crazy right now, it is so hard to hold on to folks. And the way the way to make your people stay is to make them feel good about where they work, they want to know that their colleagues are winning, and are thought leaders in the community and are really well respected. And they are you just forget to tell. So send this around and have people feel great how many of your associates want to go and share that when you post that link to the firm that when to the firm LinkedIn page, and they’re gonna go, they’re gonna like it and share it, which is another one of the benefits of this, it’s going to help your engagement, you’re going to get more eyeballs when you get likes and comments and shares with your content. But the real magic of this step for Steve, is it makes attorneys mad. And here’s why this is so beneficial. So let’s say that Fred spoke at the ISBA last week, and and the somebody within the firm sent this note around, congratulations to Fred for this great speaking engagement he had yesterday. Will Jim’s going to be Mac, Jim is gonna say, Well, what about me? I spoke at the CBA last week, how come you’re not sending my thing around? And we can it’s just that we didn’t know about what you did. And if your marketer had gone knocking on Jim’s door and said, Jim, what are you doing, we want to market what you’re doing, he would slam the door in your face. But if he sees that friend is getting something that he isn’t, ah, all of a sudden, we have more content, and that creates this virtuous cycle. Every time you send out something around internally, you get more content,


Steve Fretzin  [23:09]

and it works. The competitive juices are flowing. That is exactly right. Yeah. Awesome. I love it. I love that. And I love the idea that the sharing impacts culture and impacts how people feel about each other. And in the cross selling the idea that maybe people are reading a post on a subject that they didn’t really realize your firm did, right? Because they just know they just know you. They don’t know that your firm does 10 Other things where they could be referring.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [23:37]

Yep, that’s exactly right. Awesome. Okay, so we’re at Step five, but you have to promise me that we you did all the steps that led up to this in order to get to step five. So step five, is distributing a curated newsletter. So we’re taking that content because so far, we’ve posted it to the website, and then we posted it to social but now we need to get it to the inboxes of the people who already know and like you to get use this as another touch point to make sure that they remember you and know all the great things that you’re doing. So a curate a newsletter looks looks like this. It is it has maybe four or five pieces of content. It does not give away the whole store. There is a headline there is an excerpt and then there is a link to read more we are not the goal of this is to get someone to go to your website to poke around and learn more. So do not put all the content in there drive traffic elsewhere. And, you know, again, need images, you already have those images. They’re already horizontal. They’re beautifully created, right? Because we did that in an earlier step. But then I want to talk for a second about subject lines. Please Swear to me that you will never again send out a newsletter with the subject line summer 2021. Your clients are not relying on you to find out that the seasons are changing. No


Steve Fretzin  [25:00]

I wasn’t sure if it was summer. So I was glad to get that. Right now I Oh, that also, by the way explains why it’s warm out. I wasn’t sure why now I know. Thanks, law firm,


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [25:12]

right? So take the compete, take the headline, that is the one that’s the best one, and make that the subject line and send it out that way. So important also also a terrible headline newsletter number 47. Never


Steve Fretzin  [25:29]

terrible, terrible, terrible. It’s usually like three things you want to or five best or something where maybe people like less than numbers or is there one that you’re kind of go to that you that you find works really well for helping with open rates.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [25:44]

So we, you know, I like when I say a curated newsletter, I do think that it’s important to have something in there for everyone a little bit of corporate, a little bit of bankruptcy, a little bit of associate a little bit of not just white men, right, like, so I think it’s important to have something in there. So once you curate it, you can take a look. And there’s typically something that rises to the top that you say, Oh, this is our chambers ranking or something like that something or we hired this new person, something that’s going to make a difference.


Steve Fretzin  [26:12]

Yeah. And the other thing I’m going to add to what you’re saying that because I’ve been doing newsletters for almost 20 years, and something that I picked up on that really works is if you send it out on a Tuesday, and then you look at who didn’t open it, and then you send it again on Thursday to the people that didn’t open it, you can increase your open rates significantly, maybe 10, or 15 more percent, because people with a different subject line, I didn’t mention that. But I found that if I send it out twice, with a different subject line, I get an entirely new group of people that open it, and my rates go from, let’s say, 25%, open to 3030, or 38%, or 35, or 38%. Open. So that’s just another another thing that I have found. But I think having a great subject line, if you don’t have that, then right it’s all going to be you know, you’re not you’re not going to get people reading it.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [27:01]

That is a great tip. And if you’re hitting 38% open rates, you are a wizard.


Steve Fretzin  [27:05]

Yeah, it’s it’s, it’s, it’s pretty good. And again, if you can, you know, get 25 on the 23 on the first shot, and then get another 10 Big time, that’s really good. And then I also look at the again, back to analytics, then I look at the analytics, see who opened who’s watching. Maybe there’s some direct follow ups after that. Now I’m not saying that’s for everybody or for a law firm, but for people listening, especially solos and small firm, if you can look at the subjects and who’s opening them you actually can look at that data and then you can do some direct follow ups after so a couple couple extra tips there that that I’m tossing in on step number five but I I love that you’re that you’re bringing it all together in a newsletter.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [27:43]

Another thing that I find I use the analytics for is law firms like the kitchen sink the the newsletter, oh, let’s just throw this up the thing and when you get up to seven or eight no one clicks no one scrolls down that far. So it’s great to have that data to say Listen, can we just send another one? Because no one is going to scroll all the way down to the bottom of your eight story.


Steve Fretzin  [28:04]

Yeah, I try to keep it to like three things because we’re all you know, right right. Like you mentioned our attention spans are so short. What are the three main things that I want to convey or promote or get out and not 10?


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [28:17]

Yes, okay, so you’ve made it to step five right?


Steve Fretzin  [28:20]

We did we did that I mean, that’s a terrific process and I can see how they all work together and that just doing one individually is not going to really cut it you’ve got to do from soup to nuts on that and then you’re going to get a much stronger outcome than then you know not doing anything certainly are then just doing maybe a little bit here a little bit there those random acts of marketing that you mentioned earlier. So really great. That’s exactly what I was hoping to get out of this today. Jocelyn was was with some great advice on following a process that works that’s been proven out anything to just kind of wrap things up before we move on to the three best stuff


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [28:58]

you know, there are a couple of bonus steps I you know Steve Fretzin is a great example of those you know taking some of this content if you if you are speaking on a panel take that content and then pitch the media on it or go to your alumni publication or you know be on a podcast there are definitely those bonus steps that once you get this process down you can you can level up on


Steve Fretzin  [29:20]

yeah yeah and I think a lot of it comes down to repurposing you know getting those ideas repurposing and recognize that you have you have gold you just haven’t minded you haven’t really taken it and used it for everything that it can be used for. And that’s where working with someone like yourself is so valuable to a law firm because they’re just not going to see what you see they’re not going to have the experience or the process to do it. So a quick plug for Jocelyn and for you know building partners that that this is this is what lawyers need to do. They need to outsource this stuff to get it done and get it done. Right. So shameless plug. Anyway, moving along. Let’s go to the three best of in the three best of in your Do you say Western Springs? Western Springs? All right, I hear nothing but good things about beautiful Western Springs, which is a Northwestern or western suburb of Chicago. Yeah, it’s pretty straight West. Okay, pretty straight west. So let’s hit it. Favorite restaurant in Western Springs, where people eat. So


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [30:17]

I’ve got the top tier one and that of course, b v, right? We’ve got a Michelin star restaurant that is shocking, because there’s, it’s not a very big town. But you know, I don’t go to v all the time. But I can tell you that I have. We opened a little office in Western Springs and I am above the Glock and taco and frequent Glock and Taco much more than I frequent V. I call them up. I say it’s Jocelyn, they get my order ready. It’s delightful.


Steve Fretzin  [30:42]

Awesome, awesome. Glocken tacos. So if you’re listening, that’s the way to where to go? And what do people What if I’m visiting Western Springs or nearby? What where am I going?


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [30:53]

So one thing that I sort of a pandemic silver lining, there is a forest preserve that’s in Western Springs that I literally never visited in the 10 years that I lived there until the pandemic so we my kids, and I have been spending a ton of time in Bemis woods. And then we’ve sort of upgraded but found an even better forest preserve that is just a little bit south of us. In Willow Springs, there is a beautiful forest reserve that we hike there all the time that I highly recommend.


Steve Fretzin  [31:23]

Awesome, awesome. And then what do keep so so so that’s what you’re doing and is visiting the Forest Preserve, etc. But what would generally speaking, what are people in your area doing? What are they into now.


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [31:36]

So summer is the best time in Western Springs because it is block party season, it is so much fun to get all of your neighbors together in a we didn’t really get to see each other as much as last year, no block parties. And so we’re very much looking forward to our block party, which is in a couple of weeks. But it’s so fun to just walk around the neighborhood and see, you know, different streets blocked off fire trucks and for kids to climb on. You know, some some blocks have bands. Some have taco trucks, right, which I also obviously I’m a big fan.


Steve Fretzin  [32:09]

I think I’m getting I’m getting a feeling that you’re into your into tacos, I’m just getting,


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [32:13]

you have figured it out. That is true. So in summary is a really great time in Western Springs for sure.


Steve Fretzin  [32:18]

Fantastic, fantastic. Well, this has been wonderful, I think between your background and what you’re doing now and how you’re helping law firms really take their marketing to the next level and do it with real intention and strategy not just winging it, which we know is a terrible idea. But that’s what’s sort of going on. If people want to reach out to you to learn more about what you do or to have a consultation with you How do they reach out


Jocelyn Brumbaugh  [32:43]

there you can find me at building


Steve Fretzin  [32:46]

building Awesome. Well thanks again for being on the show and sharing your wisdom and I know my audience is is hopefully you know either taking internal notes or actually scrolling down things like I did on my note page here. But really just appreciate you and appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you Steve It was a pleasure awesome awesome and hey everybody listen if you didn’t get a couple takeaways you’re you’re just in a coma right now you’re not you’re not thinking this is this is all gold so if you have any questions you know reach out to Jocelyn obviously keep listening to the show and there’s anything I can help you with certainly just reach out to me at [email protected] happy to provide some some help if you need and listen, it’s all about being that lawyer someone who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care everybody be safe be well.


Narrator  [33:39]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes