In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Joe Jones discuss:
- The transition from traditional legal practice to entrepreneurship
- Strategies for evaluating and managing professional risk
- Tools and systems that support solo and startup legal ventures
- The mindset and preparation needed to pursue legal tech innovation
Key Takeaways:
- Successfully transitioning from law firm practice to a tech-driven startup can be less daunting when done gradually, by maintaining income and slowly validating the new concept before fully stepping away.
- Fear of entrepreneurial failure can be reduced by building out clear backup plans—even unconventional ones—to provide psychological safety and optionality during uncertain times.
- Implementing automated scheduling systems and encouraging clients to use them can significantly reduce administrative burden, lower phone interruptions, and create a more organized and prepared client experience.
- New product ideas should be tested not by pitching, but by asking target users how they currently solve the problem, which leads to more honest feedback and uncovers existing competitors or gaps in the market.
“There’s just so many tools out there that you can get that aren’t very expensive, that take a huge headache away from you.” — Joe Jones
Unlock the secrets of the industry’s top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
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Episode References:
The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick: https://www.amazon.com/Mom-Test-customers-business-everyone/dp/1492180742
About Joe Jones: Joe Jones is a board-certified personal injury trial lawyer, the Co-Founder and CEO of StreamSettle, and a U.S. Marine Corps veteran with a driving passion for resolving conflict. From his early days in his law school’s Mediation Clinic to serving as a Judge Advocate in the Marines, Joe has been helping people find solutions to their legal disputes.
After a successful run managing a Houston office for a top Texas personal injury firm and making partner, Joe’s entrepreneurial spirit led him to launch Joe Jones Law Firm. But he didn’t stop there. Seeing a need for innovation, he co-founded StreamSettle with his wife Chrysa—a software solution shaking up the dispute resolution world.
When he’s not working, Joe is all about family, cheering on Texas A&M and Houston sports teams, playing music, and hitting the slopes.
Connect with Joe Jones:
Website: https://streamsettle.com/
Email: [email protected]
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-jones-9802a3a/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/streamsettle
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey, lawyers, imagine it’s a year from now and your pipeline is full and your revenue has doubled. That journey starts on July 24 please join me for be that lawyer live an event where you’re going to meet some of the top rainmakers from my new book. Be that lawyer, 101 top Rainmaker secrets to growing a successful law practice, and we’re going to give you advice and tips that you just can’t get anywhere else. Go to fretson.com/events, to register today, your future self will thank you. I know it.
Narrator [00:33]
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:56]
Hey everybody, welcome back. It is Steve Fretzin, and yes, you guessed it. This is the be that lawyer podcast. We are here twice a week to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized in a skilled Rainmaker. And boy, oh boy, I love this show, and I love interviewing and meeting new people and great people. And Joe, I’m just really, really excited about the conversation today. It’s not a it’s not one that we typically have on this show, so I’m really looking forward to talking about it, and I’m not going to let people know what it is. I’m gonna keep them hanging it’s called a nail biter or a cliffhanger. But welcome to the show, man.
Joe Jones [01:26]
Thanks, Steve. Appreciate it. Glad to be here.
Steve Fretzin [01:27]
Yeah, yeah. And let’s jump in right away with our quote of the show is a ship in the harbor is safe, but that’s not what ships are built for. So welcome to the show and tell us a little bit about why you’re giving me that John shed quote of the day.
Joe Jones [01:43]
Yeah, I love this quote. You know, I think we all have our talents and our gifts to use in life, and it’s easy sometimes to just sit in the mundane and the routine and, you know, and just keep doing life that way. But it’s a lot of fun to get out and go on an adventure and take that ship out of the harbor and and, you know, test those talents and test those gifts and challenge yourself. And so that’s a quote I look to I really like.
Steve Fretzin [02:09]
Yeah. And for those of you don’t know, the shed aquarium is in Chicago. So if you come to Chicago, that’s one of our tourist attractions. So you can hear the quote over and over in your head as you look at fish and maybe a couple sharks. Awesome. Man. Well, Joe Jones, great to have you. You are the CEO and co founder of stream settle and give us a little bit of how you came to be. Man, I’d love to have you share that with everybody.
Joe Jones [02:30]
Yeah. So I started my legal career in the Marine Corps. I did, you know various roles. Most of my time was spent as a criminal defense attorney in the Marines. Loved it. It was the, I mean, what an absolute great job for a new attorney. You get lots of trial experience and all that. So it was really good for me. I got out and got into the PI World, went to work with a firm and ran their Houston office, and then eventually, after being with them for about six years, wanted to start my own firm, and I got that itch, and so I did that. And then we started stream settle. I had a shower idea while I was working up a trucking case that I couldn’t ignore, so my wife and I co founded stream settle, and that’s now my full time gig. Kind of referred all the cases out of our firm, and that’s what we’re doing, full time.
Steve Fretzin [03:19]
That’s it. And tell us what stream settle does. Let’s just get that out of the way too.
Joe Jones [03:23]
Yeah. So we’re a triple blind deal detector. We do what we call threshold testing. So typically, you know, you get a big demand from the plaintiff side and a really insultingly low offer from the insurance side, and the parties just conclude that they’re too far apart, and then they spend a bunch of money in a bunch of time working up a case, and then it ultimately settles. You know, before trial, that’s the typical case timeline, stream, settle before each cash burn phase. So before you file a lawsuit, before you do depos, we have the parties come in on stream, settle, put their true threshold number, not their exaggerated number, their threshold number, and if there’s an overlap, so if the obligors number is at least as much as the obligies number, we’ve got an overlap, and we’ve got a binding settlement, if not, nothing’s revealed. No fees are charged, and the parties go on to that next phase of the case.
Steve Fretzin [04:16]
Yeah, really, really cool stuff. And you know, I guess you know, I want to start off, what was it like for you transitioning from working at a PI firm to starting your own like, what were your fears? What were your concerns? And ultimately, you know, how did you get over the hump of making that happen?
Joe Jones [04:33]
So I’m loyal to a fault, and one of my biggest things was just like, I felt terrible even wanting to leave right? But I think, as an entrepreneur, like by heart, I think I am, there’s that growing itch that just keeps developing, and so eventually, just had to be honest with my partners and talk to them about that. And luckily, I was, I had very understanding and gracious partners, and so we figured out a fair deal for me to part ways. And then, you know, going into starting my own firm, there was a lot of things that I had been, you know, taking for granted being as with a firm, right? So marketing, and all the administrative stuff and payroll, HR, all that good stuff. So those were, like, needed to learn that really quickly, and was able to now, with just so much information being available, especially, you know now you’ve got AI and all that to help you too, but there’s so much information and so many tools and resources out there to help you get going. And so, yeah, we got going, and it was great. Really. Loved being on my own and having that autonomy of my own firm.
Steve Fretzin [05:38]
Was part of the ability for you to go out on your own, the fact that you had some cases to take with you, that you had some revenue, and you had some clients. So it wasn’t like you were just starting from nothing, like someone that leaves a general counsel role starts their own shop and has to, like, literally, start from nothing. You were not in that place. So it was risk, but it was not that risky.
Joe Jones [05:59]
It did not feel that risky, yeah, so that’s true for me. I brought quite a few cases with me. It was all that, you know, all the cases that I had originated at my firm. I took them with me, and so I had a good foundation to start on.
Steve Fretzin [06:13]
Okay, but it doesn’t make it less scary in a number of ways, in the sense that you don’t have experience in the marketing of a firm, the administrative aspect of the firm, the finance and that, you know, that all the processes that have to be established, the hiring. So how did you get over that hump? Because that seems, for most lawyers, like the biggest challenge, like, I’ve got all this support, and now I don’t.
Joe Jones [06:34]
So I only had one employee. I hired a paralegal, and I just looked for, you know, I didn’t want to recreate the wheel. I looked for tools that made those things easy. So, you know, I got a payroll company, and I think they charged me 15 bucks a month. And even though, you know, my firm is not active, we’re not taking on cases right now, I still use it to make sure my taxes get paid and all that, because I never figured out how to do that on my own. So I think there’s just so many tools out there that you can get that aren’t very expensive, that take a huge headache away from you. Yeah, scheduling was a big one. And, you know, I got I use Calendly, I love it, and it best solves so much of my problems. I mean, getting those calls from clients constantly like, Hey, I didn’t get an update. Well, I just sent out a text message to every single client I had, and I said, anytime you want to talk with me, here’s the way to do it, just click here, schedule a meeting. And that just made it, made the phone stop ringing. And then, honestly, and then when I was having client meetings, I was able to be prepared for that meeting. I knew it was coming up. And so I had, you know, their file, I just review their file, so that that made life a lot easier.
Steve Fretzin [07:42]
If you’re not taking a note on that everybody, you’re making a big mistake. I cannot speak highly enough about auto schedulers and the argument that a number of other people have given me, like, Oh, you’re giving the client now the job of having to deal with your calendar and like you’re giving them the work, not the case. I mean, I think what we’re looking for is of use on both ends. And the back and forth that accompanies and the fact that you’re not taking these phone calls out of thin air, everybody wins in that scenario.
Joe Jones [08:09]
Absolutely. And I found that my clients liked it like, I mean, they were able to schedule meetings very easily. These systems are very user friendly, so it’s a plus on both sides.
Steve Fretzin [08:19]
And how did you know that you were an entrepreneur? That’s not, is that something you knew from childhood up, or is that something you figured out when you were at the PI firm?
Joe Jones [08:27]
So my first entrepreneurial experience, I would say that I can remember, is when I was five, and I was making, like, those little fold fan, like, you take a piece of paper and you fold it 15 times and it makes a fan. Yeah, and I was trying to sell them to neighbors and I can even want to buy them right for $1 and then, you know, started my lawn business at 10, and borrowed money from my dad to buy my equipment. So I think I had that itch early on. And then, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [08:52]
Do you think, like, is it something we’re either born with or that we come up with? Like, are there? Do you think that there are lawyers, or do you know of lawyers who don’t have that entrepreneurial sort of spirit, but that really would be the best way for them to go. And how do they and if Soleil is that, I mean, you know, it’s like rainmakers. Are they made? Are they born? And I contend that they’re definitely made. And I think entrepreneurship may be the same way.
Joe Jones [09:15]
Yeah, I think especially in a in the legal industry, I think we have so much proven demand, right? You’re not coming into an industry where you’re trying to create. Trying to create demand and shake up the world like there’s proven demand, there’s proven formulas on how to bring in the business. So if you’re a good lawyer and you want to work for yourself, there’s definitely a way to do it, and I think that’s regardless of whether you’re an entrepreneur by heart or you’re just an aspiring entrepreneur that really wants to just have some more flexibility in their life?
Steve Fretzin [09:42]
Yeah, I mean, I would add, and this is selfishly adding this that, because this is what I do every day, but the idea that you’re able to get the confidence and the systems to generate business and feel that you can push a button and get business in the door on a regular basis, and not have the ups and the downs that have come. Any, most lawyers at firms, that confidence, I think drives, in many cases, people’s, you know, ability to move firms, or ability to move out on their own, because they’re not concerned about, where’s the money coming where’s the business or my or money coming from?
Joe Jones [10:13]
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that’s the biggest fear, right? Is like, Oh, what if no one’s calling? What if no one phone stops? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you’re Yeah, and I think at the end of the day, networking is anybody can go network, and it’s, it’s more of a challenge for some people than it is others, but everyone’s a little bit nervous walking into a room where they don’t know anybody and but getting out and meeting people and building those referral relationships is always a great way to keep the phone ringing.
Steve Fretzin [10:40]
Yeah. And there’s also, I mean, an element of risk. And lawyers are notoriously risk averse, and to start your own firm, to jump ship and move to an unknown firm, to stop being a lawyer at a firm and starting a, you know, a legal tech company. I mean, whatever it is, there’s risk involved in that. How do you sort of recognize and deal with risk and sort of weigh that out? Because that’s, I think that’s a big problem, is like the risk might just seem too high for many lawyers to make the kinds of moves that you’ve made.
Joe Jones [11:11]
So the way, I mean, the way that I’ve done it, the way that makes me comfortable in a, well, relatively comfortable in a very terrifying spot, is to have, you know, contingent plans, right? So I have my plan A, I have my plan B, I have my plan C, even when a small story, I when we started stream subtle, it is terrifying, right? Because this is something where we’re creating demand. We’re shaking it up and so, and we knew that success is far out. It’s not going to be immediate, right? But when we did that, my son was watching YouTube, and he had, like, a micro greens YouTube video came on where you can make $10,000 a month selling my so I was like, Okay, well, that’s my plan, F, right? I mean, just to have and so I learned how to grow microgreens as a hobby, and just has have it as a backup, luckily, that we never needed. But it was a, you know, I think it’s good to have a lot of contingent plans and something to fall back on, and that gave me the confidence to be able to risk it all.
Steve Fretzin [12:09]
Well, let me, I mean, you also may have in tell me if I’m wrong, transitioned over a period of time, like you kept the firm, started the other company, and then transitioned once you got momentum, or realized this is working, or that I know that this will work, and then started to unload the is that the case? That that’s how it happened?
Joe Jones [12:25]
Yeah, that’s correct. So my plan a was build a company over a course of like, you know, a few months, and then sell it for a billion dollars. And that just that did not happen. That hasn’t happened already. So that did not work. And I was like, but I’ll stay a trial lawyer. I’m going to keep doing that. And then I realized how demanding it is to start a tech company, and how much of my time was needed just on every aspect of the design and the development and all that. And so at some point, I had to make that decision of, hey, I’m going to refer everything out and just focus on string so.
Steve Fretzin [12:56]
Yeah. So how do you what would you then advise lawyers to do, who are interested in a legal tech startup, or interested in, you know, getting involved in other businesses so that they have a side gig, or that they have maybe something that might turn into a full game?
Joe Jones [13:11]
Yeah. I mean, my advice is, you know, plan a lot first and do some reflection. And if there’s a feeling in you that is growing, that you want to do this, and it is getting more and more, you know, taxing on you that you’re not doing it, then that’s probably something you need to do, that’s probably a calling, that you have, an adventure, at the very least, that you should go on, and maybe your purpose. And so I suggest to listen to your gut. And everyone is scared. I think that everyone is scared to start a venture. It is terrifying. But if you have that in you, and it’s really is in especially if, if the status quo is feeling less and less fun in your life, and less and less purposeful and meaningful, then that might be a really good sign. Yeah, this is what you’re supposed to do.
Steve Fretzin [13:57]
I also like the idea of in what you did, and what I did, too, was get a little bit of evidence that something’s working. And let’s start off with your, you know, the transition that you, you know, were in your own law firm, and then you didn’t just, like, close it down and start this up, right? You had a lag period to see, is this going to work? Is this something that there’s a need for, a market for, and once you, I think, got some evidence around that that made it easier to make that transition. And I think people need to realize it’s not like you just like, stop doing something and start doing the other, you know, cold turkey, necessarily, there’s a ability to maybe hang on to something. Like, I didn’t just become the lawyer guy overnight. I actually took about a year and a half to work with lawyers, in addition to other businesses that I have been in 50 industries, to get that evidence and that proof and the belief that there was a market and that I could make a real dent in the community and make a real, real difference in the community. And then I started turning. Away the financial planner, turning away the website, company, and all the different things I was doing. So I think that’s that takes away some of the risky and the scariness of it.
Joe Jones [15:08]
Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, there’s a lot of stuff that can be done, you know, market research, customer discovery, you can start doing those things before you shut down your primary gig, right? And so and you start learning more about the company. We just went through an accelerator. Up in Des Moines. I think most of our, the people in the cohort still had their full time jobs, right? So they’re, they’re still working their jobs while they’re developing these companies, until they know, until they have enough verification from the market and whatnot, that yeah, this is a risk that we can jump, you know, head first into.
Steve Fretzin [15:49]
Hey pi attorneys, if you’re serious about scaling your firm, there’s one event you can’t afford to miss. Pimcon, 2025 happening October 5 through the eighth at the Phoenician resort in Scottsdale, Arizona. Pimcon isn’t your average legal conference. It’s an experience. Learn how to take your firm from good to goat with some of the biggest trailblazers in the PI space, including yours truly, as we share our elite marketing and brand building strategies. Tickets on sale [email protected] that’s p i m, c o n.org, or just hit the link in the show notes. Your climb to the top starts at pimcon 2025 let’s go from good to go. Hey everybody, it’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law of practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretson.com and grab a time that works for you, and let’s make this your breakout year. I mean, another element of risk that I’d like you to talk about is the like coming up with a concept, and how do you validate a concept? When you think, like, I have a great idea, I just came up with someone’s going to steal this. But like, and maybe, I’m sure it exists, but like, turn like, I work with a company my podcast, turnkey podcast. What about like, turnkey law firm? Like I could do the sales and marketing. I bring in someone with the software I bring in someone that does that can help with the back end, right for hiring a VA or whatever, just like, a turnkey solution to get people into a solo I just came up with that when you’re talking about it. So, but for me to, like, do that, I’m not going to do that because I’m busy with my business. But, like, you know, but how would I validate that out? Like, how, like, what are some steps that you went through to make sure that you’re that you’re going in the right direction.
Joe Jones [17:43]
So there’s a great book called the Mom Test that is so great for IDEA verification. The name comes from, if you talk to your mom about your good idea, she’s gonna tell you that it’s a good idea, right? If you’re like, hey mom, I’m thinking about building this, she’s gonna say, that’s wonderful, honey, definitely.
Steve Fretzin [18:02]
I noticed you didn’t say the dad test. My lawyer father, he he made a whole career out of crapping all over. Any idea I had, I mean, it was, he was the master of Devil’s advocacy. That was his job. He was great at it anyway. Sorry.
Joe Jones [18:16]
That’s awesome. Yeah. So I think when you’re talking to talking to people about this idea. And I’ve had this happen to me, even after I read the book, I had someone, you know, tell me their app idea. They’re like, this is an app I want to build. And in my head, I’m like, Oh my God, that’s just that’s never gonna work like this. But how do you tell someone that? How do you tell someone who is so excited about their idea that it you know that you really think it’s terrible. So the Mom Test, the whole fundamental formula behind it is, don’t pitch your idea. Tell them, Hey, do you ever use this? So for example, I think in one of the examples in the book, he’s going to build a grocery store checklist app, or grocery store list app. And instead of going, Hey Mom, I’m thinking about building a grocery list app. Instead say, Mom, how do you currently keep track of your groceries? Well, you make a list. Okay, what if that list was on your phone? Would you use that? If there was an app that did that, and you go through the questions like that, that way, she’s not rejecting you, she’s rejecting your idea. And of course, you want to talk to more than one person, but you know you talk to 100 potential customers, and if you do it with that formula, where you’re not pitching it as your idea, but you’re just trying to learn if they would use something like that, you’re going to have a lot more reliable data, yeah, than if you didn’t.
Steve Fretzin [19:33]
So you’re doing some data research. You’re making sure that the market’s there, making sure that the idea is valid, and the way that you’re running it across isn’t just, hey, what do you think of this? You’re really taking the time to find out what people are actually doing. And by the way, I’m the Jackass walking around Costco with a piece of paper, you know for sure, or an image, or a picture of the even worse, a picture of the paper on my phone, which I have to keep refreshing every two minutes because it goes black on me or whatever. That’s great. Right? So I think that’s really important. And by the way, are there other people doing it? Is it a unique idea that no one’s doing and if that’s the case, well, why is that? Is that something I should be concerned about, or is it flooded with, you know, 1000s of people doing it, and that should also be a cause for concern. So I think there’s a balance you got to look for there as well.
Joe Jones [20:17]
Yeah, and those are things that you might even lose if you’re not, if you’re following the wrong formula, because people are even afraid to tell you about a competitor that they know of, right? So they might already use the grocery store list app that someone else made, but they’re afraid to tell you, because it’s your idea. But if you pitch it that way, Hey, would you use Yeah, actually, I already use one, and now you’ve just learned about a potential competitor so.
Steve Fretzin [20:38]
Wow, that’s great. Great on a number of levels. Is there any difference in the nature of risk and path from building, going out and starting a law firm versus a startup legal tech company? How is that different? Because I think there’s people that may be weighing out both options. I think lawyers really love to stay in in legal if they can.
Joe Jones [20:58]
Yeah. I mean, what’s great about lawyer is, I mean, being a lawyer and starting your own shop, I think, is that you do have that proven demand. You have people that are going to have cases that accrue today and tomorrow and yesterday, and you’ve got, you know, just a lot of potential market out there with a legal tech company. You know, one issue is, is there already proven demand for our company that it was not so that’s a huge, huge hurdle. And just getting past that right there, I think, is a big one. But then the second one is just the longevity of it. When I started my law firm, or when people start their law firms, I mean, this could apply to anyone, but on those cases you might be taking, you know, pi, cases that you won’t see $1 on for two years or three years. But you can also do hourly work. You can also find stuff that will keep the lights on and that doors open. And a tech company, you’ve got a long road of development ahead of you, you know, and that’s after the market research, and you got to build your MVP, then you’ve got to find a way to create the demand. There’s a lot of barriers and hurdles, but it’s been fun. And, yeah, just getting through those.
Steve Fretzin [22:05]
Yeah, big concern I have is, there are, you know, I went, is it the legal tech show in Chicago few months ago, or whatever it was, and it seemed like a lot of AI companies, and I get it like, now’s the time to jump in. Ai, now’s the time to lean into it. But in six months, is your business even relevant? Like the things that you’re doing in AI, you know, either can be copied or can be replicated, or it could be totally obsolete. So that, are you seeing any of that, or concern about any of that? For people that dive into that pond.
Joe Jones [22:32]
That’s funny. So, like, when our company was first starting, I think that’s when chat GPT was just now, you know, breaking into the market, and it was the talk of the town at every conference, like, you know, every conference we go to, everything is about AI venture capitalists are writing huge, huge checks to AI companies just because they have AI in their name, I mean, and at that point, I was like, Man, I wish, I wish we had some AI, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [22:54]
I’m thinking about threats and AI just, just to get, just to get some cash in the door, you know.
Joe Jones [22:59]
Right? You know, we have a, we have a AI chat bot. You know, we could.
Steve Fretzin [23:03]
Yeah, just put that on your on the cover, your label.
Joe Jones [23:07]
But, yeah, now we’re starting, and maybe you’re feeling this too, but now it starts to be, I think people are kind of, they’ve heard so much about AI, and they use it the way that they’re using it. And I mean, what a wonderful tool that it is. But I think people are starting to go, okay, yeah, you’re not at another AI company, right? And we’ve had customers say that as they approach our booth, like, no, AI, yes, Nope, we’re not AI. So that’s, you know, it can be a positive now, but man, is is AI exciting. I mean, it’s just.
Steve Fretzin [23:34]
No, it is, it is. And I don’t talk about it very often, but, you know, it’s a huge part of what helped me create the book that you see behind me in this be that lawyer 101 top rainmakers was the ability for AI to help with the right prompting, to take these amazing Rainmaker interviews and truncate them down into, you know, the their essence of the value, like, what’s the value of what this Rainmaker saying, or, Joe, what you’re saying. I love the idea that I can take that and not have to edit it by hand. But just, just help me create something that I’ve already created. It’s not from nothing, but it’s taking so much time and effort off the table. Just, you know, doing, doing what it does. So very cool. Let me ask you this kind of a little bit winding down. I mean, how did the Marines sort of help you in your entrepreneurial endeavors. I mean, what are, what’s a lesson from the from being in the Marines that you found really tracks well with your life, in the way that you’re the direction you’re going.
Joe Jones [24:31]
I I think one of the biggest things the Marines gave me is grit. I mean, I had grit from growing up, you know, I played football, as an athlete and all that. But have having grown men scream at you for 10 weeks, you know, and waking up at five in the morning and every Yeah, I mean, it was OCS was really tough. TBS was really tough. The leadership training that I got from the Marines was just amazingly invaluable. It’s where I learned service based leadership. I think that’s huge, you know, to lead. Need to Be a servant to your followers and not, like demanding like a king, right? Yeah. And so it’s yeah, it gave me a lot and made me the man that I am today in a lot of ways.
Steve Fretzin [25:12]
Yeah. I mean, I was never in the Marines, but I am raising a teenager, so I don’t know if we should compare that as how I’m developing thick skin and grit, but I’m raising one too. All right, so, so, so, easier or harder than the Marines. Let’s you know that remains to be seen, maybe. But mine’s going off to college in the fall, and we’ll see how much grit he has with that. Let’s wrap up with our new ish segment Joe, called Joe’s big mistake. What is something in your career that went backwards on you, and you had to find your way through. And it’s a great lesson to share with the folks listening.
Joe Jones [25:46]
Yeah, so I think one of the things that really got me that stands out is a loss, a trial loss that I had, and it was on a case that I cared more about than any other case that I ever litigated, and we tried that case and lost, and it was like unbelievable to me and shocking to my soul, right to win, right out of you, it did. And I mean, in retrospect, I just learned so much about myself through that process. I learned so much about or how to be a better lawyer, how to be a more effective lawyer. I don’t I don’t know if there’s anything I could have done to change the outcome of that, but I know for a fact that my client left that experience not hating me, but loving me for all that I tried to do right and so I think even with our losses, there’s so much to be gained. I don’t think there’s a better CLE in the world than losing a trial.
Steve Fretzin [26:39]
Yeah, I mean the mistake, the mistakes that we had that happened, the losses that happen, and that ultimately, I think you’d agree, defines us as, as who we are and who will become. It’s not the wins. I agree. I absolutely agree, yeah, well, really, fantastic. And let’s take a moment. Thank our wonderful sponsors, of course, rankings, io and pimcon. Now here’s an announcement. No one knows. I am going to be presenting at pimcon this year, the personal injury mastermind conference in Arizona, in Scottsdale, first class experience, and I’ll be on stage talking about podcasting. So go figure. Thank you, Chris dryer for inviting me for that. And of course, the law her podcast. You want to check out Sonia with that. If people want to get in touch with you, Joe, they want to hear I mean, there are pi attorneys listening saying, hey, that stream settle, sounds pretty sweet. What are the best ways for them to reach you and learn more about your tech?
Joe Jones [27:30]
So you can go to stream, settle.com, and create an account. There’s no cost or anything upfront. If you do that, I will definitely be reaching out to you to welcome you to our platform. You’re always welcome to email me at Jay Jones at stream subtle.com I’m also on LinkedIn. Joe Jones, so love to connect.
Steve Fretzin [27:48]
Yeah, you’re like, a young Matt Damon and the Rainmaker. Do you ever see that movie, The Rainmaker? I love the rain. Oh, that’s a good and you look at that movie, you’re like, hey, I could be that. I could be in this.
Joe Jones [27:57]
It was, it was one of the things, like, when I was younger, that I was like, I’d really like to do that.
Steve Fretzin [28:02]
Yeah, yeah. It’s probably my favorite. John Grisham, I’ve probably watched it three times as many as the firm, and then the other ones he’s done, they’re they’re all good. But that one, for some reason, really struck a chord with me. Didn’t get me into being a lawyer. But, you know, that’s okay, Listen, man, thank you so much. This was great, and I feel like talking about entrepreneurship, talking about weighing risk and really thinking about the pulling out. The entrepreneurial spirit that lawyers have, that they can they may have inside of them, is something truly special. And I just want to tell you how much I appreciate you coming on the show, sharing your wisdom and just having an open and frank conversation about it. It was really, really good time. Thanks, Steve. Love being here, man. Yeah. Awesome, awesome. And hey, thank you everybody for hanging out with Joe and I for a little bit. And, you know, really put this to, you know, give some thought to this, because you may be in a situation where it seems untenable, it seems mundane, it seems like maybe this is not what you were meant to be doing. And, you know, you get multiple chapters in your life, and don’t just suffer in silence. I think you can take some with the right people in your corner. And I don’t like Joe like your wife is, is your partner, right? That’s right. We don’t even talk about that’s a whole other episode. Maybe calm down. All right. I know if I had to work with my wife, it might be a murder suicide. But anyway, love you, honey. Anyway, thank you. Everybody. Take care. Be safe, be well. We will talk again soon.
Narrator [29:24]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, frettezen.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.