In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jordan Whelan discuss:
- The evolving landscape of legal marketing and SEO strategies
- Identifying and targeting the right audience through buyer personas
- Leveraging video, local SEO, and low-cost marketing tactics for visibility
- The role of mindset, metaphysics, and visualization in business growth
Key Takeaways:
- A law firm’s website must be technically optimized and emotionally resonant, clearly communicating its unique value proposition to convert visitors.
- Targeted marketing—such as divorce ads placed during peak conflict hours on female-dominated radio stations—can dramatically improve campaign effectiveness.
- Inexpensive tactics like geo-targeted short videos, active engagement on platforms like Quora and Reddit, and cross-platform posting tools can generate steady traffic.
- Building SEO authority, particularly in local search, creates long-term assets that not only drive business now but also increase the firm’s valuation for future sale.
“If you see yourself as someone who’s struggling, you’ll see that reflected to you in the outside world constantly.” — Jordan Whelan
Unlock the secrets of rainmaking success—join Steve Fretzin and four powerhouse legal experts for Be That Lawyer LIVE on August 27; reserve your spot now at fretzin.com/events.
Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
Thank you to our Sponsor!
Legalverse Media: https://legalversemedia.com/
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let’s make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Jordan Whelan: Jordan Whelan is the founder of Grey Smoke Media. With a background as a TV and radio producer and a publicist, he has managed over $3 billion in class action claims communications. He spent a decade mastering media buying (managing over $50 million in spend) and digital marketing, achieving the proverbial 10,000 hours of practice.
Under his leadership, Grey Smoke Media helped Diamond and Diamond Lawyers grow from a small practice to Canada’s top injury and real estate law firm. Before rebranding Grey Smoke Media as a legal marketing agency, Whelan worked with publicly traded pharmaceutical companies, the Pan Am Games, Brookfield Asset Management, Intact Financial Corporation, and crypto powerhouses such as Coinsquare.
Whelan’s insights have appeared in over 100 international outlets, including The New York Post and Forbes. In his personal time, he is an accomplished singer-songwriter with over 3 million streams on Spotify.
Uniquely, Whelan provides metaphysics-based business coaching that blends mindset mastery, wealth expansion, and energetic alignment to help his clients unlock their highest potential.
Connect with Jordan Whelan:
Website: http://www.greysmokemedia.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jordanjpower/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey everybody. Steve Fretzin here, and if you’re ready to take your law practice the next level, you got to check out my new show. Be that lawyer Coach’s Corner. It’s launching on August 25 you’ll get my best strategies, tips and systems, the same ones I use with my private clients every day, so you can win more business. Work smarter and love your career again. Mark your calendar for August, 25 and check it out. Be that lawyer
Narrator [00:30]
you’re listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode your host, author and lawyer coach. Steve Fretzin, we’ll take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, hey everybody.
Steve Fretzin [00:53]
Steve fretzen, here, welcome back. It’s be that lawyer. We are rocking and a rolling every single week, twice a week, bringing you the most amazing people you’ll ever want to hear talk about legal stuff. And today’s no different. I got Jordan waiting in the wings.
Jordan Whelan [01:07]
How’s it going, my friend? Thank you so much for having me on. I’m excited. Yeah, well, that wasn’t
Steve Fretzin [01:11]
a very excited way of saying you’re excited. You should be like, I’m excited. Thank you. So I’m thrilled. You just needed some direction, right? That’s all wired up to get me going. That’s it. That’s it. I’ll send you one. No, but I’m so happy you’re here and we’re going to have a really rich conversation today. Let’s start off with a quote from like, my first like sales mentor author, Napoleon Hill, whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe it can achieve. So welcome to the show and share a little bit about Napoleon Hill in that quote.
Jordan Whelan [01:42]
Well, I’m glad you brought it up, because I’m extremely into metaphysics, quantum mechanics. I think that’s a huge part of when people talk about marketing as a lawyer, their subconscious reprogramming. Do they think what’s possible and even just reality shifting right, moving to a new timeline? Matter, I’m obsessed with all this stuff, so I would just counter it by saying, yes, everything starts with the mind every moment. You know, even your reticular activating system, when you get into a certain mindset. You know, some people talk about the game where it’s the red car. If you think about a red car and you tell yourself about a red car, you’ll see red cars all day long. Yeah. And it works that way with business. If you see yourself as someone who’s struggling, you’ll see that reflected to you in the outside world constantly.
Steve Fretzin [02:22]
Yeah, you know, the subconscious has so much to do with how we live our lives and how we behave and how we, you know, have a positive attitude, a positive outlook on things. And, you know, lawyers get a bad rap in some ways, because they’re, you know, perfectionist, because they’re risk averse. And there are some that are, you know, negative. And I think there’s got to be ways that they that I work with that. You know, most of my clients aren’t negative, they’re positive. But, you know, everybody gets in a funk. I mean, what do you do when you get in a funk?
Jordan Whelan [02:47]
I meditate a great deal. I meditate an hour a day. And people think it’s just about relaxing and stress management. No, it’s about conquering the thoughts. The thoughts tend to run the show. You cannot move from one quantum existence of point A that you’re a lawyer that has a 20 person law firm, and you want to get to that 200 person law firm, you can’t move between that if you continue to buy into the story of Person A, which is the old you, which is formed by your childhood society, maybe everything from getting too involved in, you know, establishment thinking credential is a certain rigid way of thinking, and so that’s the biggest thing for me. I mean, that’s as important to me as going to the gym.
Steve Fretzin [03:27]
Yeah, and I do TM and that meditation is it’s thinking about nothing. It’s meditating where you empty your head of thoughts. Is that what you’re talking about or you do? Are there things that help you as you’re meditating, to think of things or to control your mind in a way that gets that’s more productive.
Jordan Whelan [03:43]
I’m trying to basically release them, right? You know, a lot of people, they think when a thought comes in, oh, I don’t want that thought. I don’t want to think about that. Don’t do that because you’re energizing it, and you’re resisting it and you’re basically latching on to it. I use it as a way of treating the thoughts like clouds that can flow by. And for me, I come from, you know, a lot of trauma in my youth, lot of overthinking, and so I’m someone has to work actively to not sort of glom on to these thoughts that are destructive and let them go by. And as time goes by and you shift into being a new person, the thoughts get quieter.
Steve Fretzin [04:15]
Yeah, but you guys didn’t think we were going to get so deep, so fast, but it happens sometimes on this show, and that’s okay. We’re going to be getting deep, and we’re gonna be going wide and doing the whole thing. I’ve got Jordan Whelan here. He is the president of gray smoke media. And give us a little background. Now, you mentioned trouble youth, and then, you know, obviously you’ve overcome a lot in your life. So catch us up on how you came to be running a media company.
Jordan Whelan [04:37]
Yeah, I started early 20s. I worked in television and radio. I had a newspaper call him. I was the producer all things media, very circuitous journey. And in my late 20s, I would say mid 20s, I started working with a law firm in Toronto called Diamond. And diamond, at the time, they were probably 25 people, and over the past decade, I’ve basically grown them to be the largest personal injury firm in the country. And. And the largest real estate law firm in the country. I also grew the largest divorce firm in Toronto. Great smoke media used to be sort of a generalized marketing firm where we would bring all these elements of media and SERPs and digital marketing and all this stuff I learned from being an autodidact, but over the past two years, I really niche it down to just serve lawyers, because in some ways, they tend to actually be a great client if you can find the right ones. Because a they’re billing so they’re distracted, they’re not boring you with their emotionalism and trauma, which I that okay. Secondly, I get the right ones.
Steve Fretzin [05:35]
They’re talking to divorce attorneys too much. I’ve had a couple the criminal attorney. Oh my God. They got to have, they got to be they, like stone, those people.
Jordan Whelan [05:44]
I mean, I used to have a defense lawyer as a client, and he used to call me for three minutes a month. And I loved it, because it was all about the numbers, and I was, you know, that’s what I meant to I just say, Hey, you’re up 4x I made you this amount of money. Great. Thanks. Bye. So they tend to be great clients, but you know that space is it needs a lot of disruption, and the type of people that go into this space with an open mind and are creative, left and right brain tend to do really well. And so that’s how I changed my agency to sort of be the only all in one legal marketing for lawyers or can come to us from media buying and SEO, reputation management, social media, kind of a one stop shop, instead of hiring four agencies with a lack of symbiosis. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [06:28]
So we’ve got lawyers that are solos. We’ve got small firm, we got big firm, and everything in between, every practice area. So when we talk about marketing, we have to be a little bit careful, because, you know, SEO to some is might be a foreign language and etc. So let’s talk about marketing generally, and what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see lawyers making in investing in marketing or just trying to do marketing.
Jordan Whelan [06:49]
The biggest mistake is their website that needs to be when you’re starting infancy stage, that needs to be everything needs to go into that. And I don’t just mean technically, I don’t just mean mobile optimized speed, etc. I mean the feelings that it evokes when I load your website, if I’m a woman, and there’s 12 guys in on the main rotator, then I don’t see myself represented. That might be something. I might be the fonts that you use. But also, what’s crazy is some people operating a lot for for 15 years and not know their unique value proposition? Yeah, they think that they’re interesting enough on their own. They think that, you know, I’m doing well, and it’s like, that’s great. But if you want to get to that final echelon, what are you selling? What do you what do people feel? And then the second thing, I would say is sort of investing marketing spend for ego. You know, a lot of realtors are guilty of this, buying a billboard just so your friends see it. Buying a billboard without thinking about the creative making it too complex. I’m driving by for three seconds in my car and I look at your billboard, I might have only have time to remember the website that you have up or the phone number. I don’t have time for a lot of text, so I think it’s a lot of the time. And the lawyers that do well aren’t guilty of this. It’s thinking that they know better. It’s thinking that they don’t need to be deferential to a marketing agency because they did well in law school, and they’re known as the they’re smarter than the average bear. And I think there’s if you can kind of humbly look into, you know, look into another agency and say, Hey, I don’t know what I don’t know? Can you tell me? And I find, you know, I credit diamond. Diamond with that they hired people that knew what they were talking about, and they knew when to be quiet and listen,
Steve Fretzin [08:29]
yeah, what are like a few aspects of the buyer persona or identifying, you know, who you should be marketing to. Because I can market to everybody, or I could market to, you know, rich, you know, white males that are in do this, that and the other type of industry. How do people figure out, like, what are some things they should be looking into to identify where they should be spending money based on their buyer persona? So it depends
Jordan Whelan [08:56]
on the type of law, right, personal injury law, if it’s at the highest level, you don’t really want to market to the person making 250 grand a year, because they’re in a social circle where they’re going to get a recommendation. Personal Injury Law tends to market to blue collar a lot, because there’s a lot of income loss. If I’m the brick layer who can’t use my hands now for 25 years, there’s my income loss. So that tends to be the one kind of market. What’s interesting about divorce law in itself, is that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. And so I had a client that was a divorce lawyer running radio ads. We ran them on a female dominated station, and we ran them at a time. We found out by doing our own research. We found that couples fight the most at around eight o’clock before they go to work. And so we ran ads solely between that window to target women, which was interesting. I can’t speak much to every single kind of area of law specifically, but I think if you run into a lot of people try to appeal to everyone, I don’t think that really works. You know, if you’re going to sit in that elite echelon of top lawyers, you kind of need to stick there. And with personal injury law, you can kind of go a little more wide ranging, because everyone gets injured, and it’s recession proof industry, but it really just depends on the type of lawyer. But I would say, like, when I load your website, what do I feel? And to me, that’s huge, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [10:15]
And I think also the website, what’s the call to action? Like, all right, I feel that this is a place of expertise, a place that can help me, a place that gets me like they’re targeted to me and I’m feeling something. And then how do they do at that conversion? What are some conversion best practices that you’re seeing now that maybe weren’t around 10 years ago?
Jordan Whelan [10:36]
Some great ones that I do for clients is and again, if you’re talking about smaller people who don’t have big budgets, little things they can do, micro offers. So I come to your website, and I am, you know, personal injury, case value estimator, divorce readiness checklist, PDFs that you can give to people. That’s a huge thing. The other thing that’s you can do on a small level, if you’re just a small law firm, is you can just make videos. Everyone has an iPhone. Everyone has a personality. We’re talking all day long, almost. Yeah, well, let’s not go crazy. Yeah, those people would be quickly left behind, let’s say But little things like making specific videos. I mean, with AI and the emergence of AI, I always say, what’s going to counter AI is humanness. So if you lean into what makes you human, what makes your law firm human? What makes you know you’re using your clients stories. That’s how you connect with people, and that’s something that’s not going to fall to the wayside over the next little while. Yeah, but even, like, there’s cheap ways to get clients. I mean, I sort of think of it like this. You know, there’s tons of inroads to your website. Yes, there’s SEO, yes, there’s AdWords that, yes, there’s social media, but when I search you, a Reddit bread comes up, and maybe you haven’t responded to something that someone said there and it’s turned off 500 people. Have you got on Quora? Have you responded to questions on Quora? Have you linked back to your website? Have you got the LinkedIn? I mean, there’s so many inroads that are coming into your website that you might not even think of YouTube comments respond to those people just don’t think of the cheap ways to generate traffic.
Steve Fretzin [12:04]
Yeah, and I think that’s a good direction to go down, because there are people that have massive budgets for websites, SEO, pay per click, big campaigns, millions of dollars. And there’s people in the B to B space and the B to C space that would prefer to be on a shoestring, because I think there’s some things that have leveled the playing field right. Social media video, where I used to do three camera shoots with makeup and lights and the whole thing to get a video on YouTube. And today, screw that. It’s zoom in my iPhone. So what are a couple of I don’t know if we want to call them hacks or just inexpensive ways for lawyers to get business in the door, or to at least build their work on building their brand.
Jordan Whelan [12:42]
Well, one of the great ones, if we’re talking video, is it’s called geo stacking. So it’s something what you can do if you’re making short videos, you can target them for different neighborhoods, so you do Tiktok and all when we talk about SEO in general, it’s really important for people to remember it’s not just Google. People think SEO is just Google. No, all these search bars on all these platforms are now acting like Google. YouTube bar tiktoks are showing up in Google results. So you always have to optimize for specific things. And if you’re a lawyer and you want to make videos about what to do after a car accident and you’re a lawyer in California, you would make different videos. What do I have a case for my car accident in San Diego, California. Next one, I just got hit by a motorcycle in Oceanside California, and it’s going to pop up for all of those. And it’s so important to remember with SEO like that, traffic’s always there. So if you’re in a niche where there’s 200,000 searches per month for motorcycle accidents in Southern California, whatever it is that traffic is going somewhere right now, it’s going to your competitors. So whether you pick that, you know, 20% of that up on Google, 5% it up on Tiktok. There’s this massive Interplay going on now where you really have to be everywhere, unfortunately. And it doesn’t have to be so daunting for small lawyers. You can get a, you know, there’s programs like metric cool, where you record a 62nd video, it’ll post it to Pinterest, YouTube, threads, Facebook, Tiktok, all those and you’re just picking up traffic from all those platforms for $15 A month membership. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [14:20]
Hey, pi attorneys, if you’re serious about scaling your firm, there’s one event you can’t afford to miss. Pim con 2025 happening October 5 through the eighth at the Phoenician resort in Scottsdale, Arizona. Pimcon isn’t your average legal conference. It’s an experience. Learn how to take your firm from good to goat with some of the biggest trailblazers in the PI space, including yours truly, as we share our elite marketing and brand building strategies. Tickets on sale [email protected] that’s p i m, c o n.org, or just hit the link in the show notes. Your climb to the top starts at pimcon 2025 let’s go from good to go. You. Hey, be that lawyer friends. If you’re looking for smarter ways to grow your law practice and want to stay ahead of the curve in legal tech, business and strategy, then it’s time to check out legal verse media. The go to hub for lawyers who want more. This international platform connects you with global thought leaders through articles, podcasts, webinars and interactive forums that are shaping the future of law. Explore everything with a free 14 day trial, including early access to tools peer discussions and a chance to build your brand as a thought leader. Don’t wait. Visit legalverse media.com and register for membership today. Hey everybody, it’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch, it’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretzen.com and grab a time that works for you, and let’s make this your breakout year. I just set up to get a second podcast going, and the production company that’s going to help me do this podcast, one of their main platforms is Metro cool. So for every 20 minute podcast they do, they’re going to have 1520, 30 videos and blog posts and all kinds of stuff that they’re able to create around AI, their team metrical. And, I mean, I think there used to be HootSuite was kind of a thing, but I think the problem with Hootsuite was, you know, it’s for posting on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, all this stuff. But now everything needs to be customized for that particular, you know, brand of social media. And I don’t think HootSuite, at least initially, was sort of doing that. And I don’t know, does metrical do that?
Jordan Whelan [16:45]
Metrical does it. And also with metrical, you want to be optimizing your title to think, could this also end up in search results, like I was mentioning, right? So be very careful about the title that you’re using, because you not only will you get pickup traffic on Tiktok, which isn’t the best, by the way, it’s not the best place for lead generation for lawyers. At the end of the day, social media doesn’t compare to SEO for lawyers. Just doesn’t. But that being said, if that very Tiktok about that niche topic about I just got served with divorce papers, what do I do if that’s going to show up Google results? If you title it properly, take the time to figure out, how am I going to title this properly and do different videos for each sub niche, right? Not just cities. I got diverse with divorce papers in New York, but also do them. I’m a woman who just got this. I’m a man who just got this. I’m a father who got this. That traffic is all is there. It’s hundreds of 1000s of searches. And even if you’re a small law firm, you know, this is something that might take you an hour per week just to do,
Steve Fretzin [17:46]
yeah, and I think again, we, as we discussed from the beginning, like B to C, different than B to B, you know, plaintiff side, defense side. And I’m working with a lot of IP attorneys and lit and commercial litigators and M and A and all these different areas where they’re not going to do SEO, they’re at a firm, and I think that social media and video and thought leadership and writing and speaking and networking and right, there’s all this stuff that they have to do differently than, you know, sort of the pay to play model, or just like, you know, the content driven, you know, SEO model, which is exhausting, and, by the way, most people should delegate anyway, yeah.
Jordan Whelan [18:19]
And the SEO model, by the way, doesn’t, isn’t just a content driven model, it’s, it’s still a backlink model, right? So for people don’t know, on a basic level, backlink is just a site from another site to yours. The more authoritative that site is, say it’s bloomberg.com, CNN, linking into the higher you’re going to rank in search results. That is still a massive factor. And so you have to remember, if you’re going up against a competitor who’s spending 15 grand a month. I mean, these big firms in Miami, Los Angeles, pi firms, are spending 2025, a month on SEO, which is how much you need to spend. You don’t you’re not going to get anywhere. Frankly, you can beat them on the smaller keywords, but on the bigger keywords, if they have that much authority already, you’re in trouble, you’d be better to just go on these other routes, like we’re talking but I still think SEO is absolutely the best psychologically, and I don’t think anything will compare to it. If you’re just spending money on AdWords every month and trying to outbid your competitor, you’re not going
Steve Fretzin [19:15]
to get anywhere. Yeah, well, you might get somewhere. There’s people making, you know, a billion dollars doing it. So there are people making money doing that. I think it’s just aggravating that you’re having to continue to pay this massive fee to get the business in, versus SEO, which you pay a big fee to get it going. But ultimately, you know you’re not paying per click. You’re getting the clicks because you did the hard work on the back end.
Jordan Whelan [19:37]
But it’s also what is your value when you go to sell, because if you say, we get that, we spend 25,000 a month on AdWords, we get this, and I say, Hey, I’ve built an SEO funnel over the past 10 years. It generates 1.5 million a year. Then when you go into your multiple to sell, that’s a massive asset. So it’s sort of like renting a home versus buying.
Steve Fretzin [19:55]
Yeah, I like that analogy. That’s really good. Yeah, it’s really important.
Jordan Whelan [19:59]
So I think. If you’ve built up your the actual authority of your site and invested X amount of dollars, and then you say, Hey, this is, you know, it’s not just also the your SEO. This is the their main SEO. Local SEO is not going away with AI your local SEO. I mean, I optimize one of my clients local SEO pages for three offices. We generated almost 100,000 a month in new business just by doing that over a period of 30 days. I mean, that side of SEO is not going away. So if I go to sell my business and I say these three Google My Business locations are so well optimized that they’re driving this many calls and this many leads per month, that person says, Oh, good. The work’s already done for me. I can just scale up another way.
Steve Fretzin [20:40]
So then what’s your I mean, you brought it up, so I’m going to pick it. Going to pick on it. I And I’ve asked a number of marketing people this, and everybody’s giving me a different answer, which is fine, because there’s no way to predict the future perfectly at this stage. But how? I mean SEO, pay per click, Google, Bing, all the different ways that people are getting found, and they’re paying lots and lots of money and creating lots and lots of content, and then you’ve got this thing, you know, AI, that’s come into its own, where I know, like it’s completely changed, how I’m searching for things, how I’m looking up things, how I’m utilizing, you know, the internet differently than I was even six months ago. And I think it’s going to get exponentially more, you know, involved as we go. Everyone thinks that and believes that. But isn’t that going to affect the way that people are searching on Google to find a personal injury divorce attorney,
Jordan Whelan [21:30]
not on the local level, not in the local so if I’m in San Diego, California, and I’m looking car accident lawyer, San Diego, Car Accident Lawyer, Del Mar, all the surrounding counties that can’t go away because largely that’s done through Google Maps. That’s what shows up when I actually search. I’m not using chat GPT right now for that, and it’s also pulling from that when you ask it for Hey, I just got hit in San Diego. I need a lawyer. So I say, put your resources into that right now, because that is, again, I my one client, about a million dollars easy in new business. I would say, lean into that. And then on the AI side of things, you want to lean into how you want to start ranking for how people actually talk, right? We used to rank for these specific keywords, car accident lawyer, but things like, have just been in a car accident. I just broke my leg. Can I get a lawyer? That’s how it’s pulling it’s pulling that natural language. And then there’s technical things like schema markup, which I won’t bore people you say exactly. It’s like another language at this point, but like I said earlier, harkening back to that, it’s what makes you human. It’s going to make you win out. If you are spinning your competitors content with an AI program, and they’re doing the same to you, your blogs aren’t going to rank. But if you are a law firm that talks about your clients and their stories, then leans into that and finds compassion. A computer is not going to be able to eclipse that, yeah,
Steve Fretzin [22:48]
because I know, like I’m thinking about, I’m going to chat GBT. I’m searching. I want a personal injury attorney for slip and fall in, you know, Highland Park, Illinois, who you know is, you know, easy to talk to is going to be aggressive when they need to be. I’m like typing in this long form search that I’m hoping will give me then the best result, as opposed to a ton of ads and then a ton of people that are in Chicago and Lincoln wood and all these different places. And you know, you have to kind of filter through 20, 3040, people to figure out. I just want give me the answer, and I feel like that’s the direction it’s headed,
Jordan Whelan [23:26]
yeah, and it’s gonna pull based on authority signals. So for someone like you doing a podcast like this, it’s gonna say, Oh, I see video content everywhere. I see articles. I see a social media following. I see it’s actually ranking in Serbs, which means there’s a lot of backlinks, which is also authority. So it’s still pulling from the people that are updating content regularly, are on social media, have big backlinks. You still have to be out there doing things to rank. It’s the same sort of game as Google. It’s just a little bit different in that sense. But, you know, but is it?
Steve Fretzin [24:01]
Is that going to mess up the people who aren’t doing these things now and in the past? I mean, they’re just going to totally get lost at that.
Jordan Whelan [24:08]
They’re going to be left even farther behind, yeah? Because now they now there’s one beast and now there’s a second beast, but both those beasts are kind of feeding from the same thing, which is general authority and activity. Yeah, online land.
Steve Fretzin [24:21]
So someone’s never written an article, they’ve never done a video, they’ve never put themselves out there in any real way, and the only way that they can get found is through word of mouth. Other than that, they’re going to be dead in the
Jordan Whelan [24:32]
water, right? So they’re better served by, you know, sponsoring a local hockey team or getting on the radio and running some ads, because in that specific sphere where they’re trying to compete, they’re probably going to need $500,000
Steve Fretzin [24:44]
to start. Okay, all right, so let’s sort of wrap up with things that I know people are very interested in, in that revolves around, sort of the alignment between how we expand and drive wealth and like grow and. Also, you know, keep control of like, our spend and control of our time, because that’s really what’s hurting, is people don’t want to spend time and money, but they’re but they also want to grow. And so there’s, I don’t know, there’s no right answer for that, but what’s your take on that, and how would you recommend people go forward?
Jordan Whelan [25:17]
I mean, I’m big on metaphysics and I’m big on not going into the external world that’s in front of me and trying to fix things that this is more of an internal game. I mean, if you look at quantum mechanics, everything’s particles, electrons, photons. We know that we’re basically collapsing probabilities into different realities. The what you want to do to shift realities. And I say this by the way, as someone who was sick for 18 years with a chronic illness, that I was told that I couldn’t care, that I cured in 60 days, and someone who launched a music career with no experience doing really well. The way I did those things is I assumed a new state of being, and I essentially moved into a different reality. I mean, we live in infinite realities. We can shift. If you are a law lawyer, and this is going to sound Woo, Woo to sound Woo, Woo to a lot of people, but the people that it clicks for and read Napoleon Hill or Neville Goddard and stuff like that will get this is moving from point A to point B. Is the quantum shift. It’s not so much about your marketing spend. It’s about living and becoming the new person, and then the 3d reality, as a reflection of you, essentially has to catch up to you. So I do a lot of metaphysical coaching with lawyers and stuff like that, who think they need to always go into the outside world and make it work without resolving what is an internal game. If you have subconscious beliefs that money is evil, that you’ll never make it, that life doesn’t work out for you, and that’s the emanation of frequency that’s coming from your heart every day and your heart chakra. Good luck trying to make it happen in this outside world. Internal game is more important than any of the things that you and I just talked about 30 minutes. So I help people, on a quantum level, kind of move into new realities and understand that. How that works on a level, and it’s difficult to grasp at first,
Steve Fretzin [27:00]
but give me one example of something that you would coach a lawyer on to bring out their inner best self.
Jordan Whelan [27:08]
Vivid visualization. The way you move into from point A to point B is you vividly visualize the new environment as the you know, look at Bob Proctor. All these people talked about this in the 70s. You visualize it. If it’s now you feel what it would feel like, the emails that you would get, the calls that you would get, and then you detach. And you should be doing this in a calm, relaxed state, in meditation. So if I’m a lawyer, and I could find a way to make 20 minutes a day, I would tell them to basically get into a calm, relaxed state, visualize the reality they want to move into, as if it’s happening now in all their senses, and then what you do is you detach. You do not wait for it. You do not constrict the energy. You do not desperately look for evidence. You relax and let it come to you. This is actually hermetics cabalion. This is what the elites at the highest level know. This is what they were trained when they were younger. And I didn’t learn this stuff till about two years ago, but it’s how I launched a music career out of nowhere. It’s how I cured my illness, and it’s largely because the mind is everything. The mind is powerful, and you are shifting into a new reality, and you do it billions of times a day, and you don’t even realize you’re doing it, so you might as well take control of it.
Steve Fretzin [28:17]
Yeah, and I mean, I’m a believer in that, not in my example would be another book called The Mind Body prescription. And if you know that book, but Dr Sarno, who passed, I think, a few years ago, basically said the mind is so powerful that it would rather give you physical things to deal with than dealing with your mental issues. Right? You’re not mental issues, like your cycle, but like mental problems, like you’ve got stuff inside of you that is unresolved or that you’re dealing with. So Jesus, you know, sure, easier to deal with. My knee hurts. I’m going to go to the doctor and look at my knee versus dealing with but to me, I know that when I have lower back pain or when I moves to my neck for no reason. I mean, other than, you know, we could say stress that it’s really in my head, that it’s, there’s no injury that occurred.
Jordan Whelan [29:00]
It’s really, it’s disharmonious thought patterns. There we go. Actually going on. I don’t think it’s I think what presents in the physical body is evidence of something else going on. And you can dig into that. Yeah, and it
Steve Fretzin [29:11]
doesn’t mean there isn’t real injuries. It doesn’t mean people aren’t hurting or don’t have bad backs and discs and all kinds of stuff. There’s real illness and real stuff. But there’s also a lot of people that you know aren’t dealing with the mental game, and it’s affecting them physically so well.
Jordan Whelan [29:26]
And also, can I just add one thing, yeah, please. You know, right before, right after people get diagnosed, and I say this to someone who had bowel disease for 18 years, your disease tends to get very, really bad in the months following the diagnosis. And the reason that is is because you’re in it, so you’re directing all your energy into it. You’re on the forums, you’re telling people, and you’re basically shifting your awareness into a reality in which it’s worse and worse and worse. The people that shift their awareness into healing or healed or it’s going to be okay, perform way better, and that’s the placebo effect, and that’s why monks can go in. Mountains in the Himalayas and meditate in snow for 15 minutes and not die when the rest of us would that just proves to you how much you are creating your own reality and how powerful your mind is.
Steve Fretzin [30:12]
Well, I think you’ve shared a lot of where I’m going, and I’ve got a new segment what used to be called Jordan’s big mistake. It’s now called failing forward. Give me an example of a time where you failed forward,
Jordan Whelan [30:22]
I would say, all times before I two
Steve Fretzin [30:25]
years ago, up to two years ago, my
Jordan Whelan [30:27]
entire life. I would say, yes, I would say I was not cognizant of frequency, vibration, energy for most of my life. And the biggest way people fail is not understanding that there’s so much more going on than your AdWords spend that you are creating your reality and aligning your energy with specific people that come into your reality. You can attract into your reality people and events that don’t vibrationally you’re not in vibrational resonance with. And so that’s how I failed. Is being too desperate or needy with clients, or wanting it too bad, or holding on too tight, or also living in the past. You know that is the hugest thing for people. They find comfort in the past, and their ego wants to keep them there because it’s familiar, and that’s the job of the ego. But it’s amazing if you just do a 321, countdown and act like you have no past, no future, and live from that moment how peaceful your day is.
Steve Fretzin [31:23]
I love that. That’s a great way to wrap things up. Man, I appreciate that. Let’s take a moment. Thank our wonderful sponsors, legal verse media, everybody calm. Check them out. International online publication, lots and lots of content, ways to interact with other lawyers. We’ve got the pimcon conference coming up in Scottsdale, Arizona, at the Venetian Hotel. I’ll be on stage talking podcasts with some amazing experts, and then, of course, the law her podcast, Sonya Palmer, putting out content, making it amazing for women Jordan, people want to get in touch with you. They want to hear more about gray smoke media. They want to get into their inner selves and figure some shit out. Best way to reach you.
Jordan Whelan [32:00]
Graysmokemedia.com A, G, R, E, y, smokemedia.com you can book an introductory call complimentary, or 30 minutes paid.
Steve Fretzin [32:07]
Yeah, man, thank you so much. Is there a book too that gets into some of the meat and potatoes of the mind game that you really love?
Jordan Whelan [32:14]
God, there’s so many. I love them all. I mean, I love the Cavalli and that’s like, one of my favorite books. But I would say, You know what, honestly, go on YouTube because I don’t like this is a little depressing. I don’t like to give books out nowadays because people’s attention spans have dwindled. Fish level. Are you talking about? So yeah, exactly. So go on YouTube, and there’s a tons of tons of videos, but I would look into the law of assumption. I don’t believe in the law of attraction. Look at your law of assumption. How you can shift from one reality to the next. I do a little bit of coaching on my end, but I, by no means, am I an expert. So I would check that out, and I will tell you that like, It’s magical. It really is magical once you start to understand it.
Steve Fretzin [32:52]
Yeah. And I’m a big fan of micro learning. You know, people that can go into YouTube and not just Doom scroll and not just waste time and watch crap, you know, I can watch cat videos too. Like anybody, they’re fun. But ultimately, like, what can I learn in this time? Because, you know, there’s just more that you can pick up these days than just ever before. So use it. Same thing with this podcast. Be that lawyer, everybody you know on YouTube. We’ve got books, we’ve got articles on above the law. We’ve got everything cooking here, and the new podcast coming out soon. So I’ll make sure you guys know about that, Jordan, thanks so much, man. This was great. I met you, and I was excited to have you on. I knew that this was going to be a different kind of interview and and that’s a good thing, right? We want to hear different people’s opinions and different people’s thoughts and how they made it happen. And certainly they’re no disappointment on that
Jordan Whelan [33:36]
today with you. Thanks, Steve. I really appreciate you having me on. Yeah, yeah. And thank you
Steve Fretzin [33:39]
everybody for hanging out with Jordan and I for about a half an hour, we had, boy, a lot to cover, and hopefully you got some good takeaways, not only on marketing, but about the mind game of life. So hopefully it’s helping you guys to continue to be that lawyer, confident, organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care. Everybody. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.
Narrator [34:01]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website. Fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.