In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Judy Barton discuss:
- Cultivating meaningful and lasting business relationships
- Effective networking techniques for lawyers and financial professionals
- Establishing credibility and attracting opportunities
- The importance of integrity in business
Key Takeaways:
- Effective networking is not about collecting contacts but about fostering genuine, mutually beneficial relationships that lead to long-term success.
- Lawyers and financial professionals should focus on providing value first, rather than immediately seeking business, to build trust and credibility.
- Personal branding plays a crucial role in professional growth, as a strong and authentic presence can differentiate individuals in competitive industries.
- Integrity and consistency in business interactions build a solid reputation, making people more likely to refer and work with you over time.
“You have to make yourself memorable, but you also have to know why you’re different from everybody else and why that person should hire you or engage with you as an attorney.” — Judy Barton
Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at [email protected] with your toughest question, and I’ll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!
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About Judy Barton: Judy Barton is a Senior Client Strategist for BNY Mellon Wealth Management. In this role, she works directly with clients to address their investment and wealth management needs. Judy joined the firm in 2014 and has more than 20 years of experience in the financial services industry, as well as being a business owner for 10 years. Her previous corporate experience includes serving in finance at EDS, Nortel, and Sodexho Marriott in Boston, DC, and London. Judy received her Master in Legal Studies from the School of Law at Washington University in St. Louis and a Bachelor of Science in Finance from the University of Oklahoma.
Connect with Judy Barton:
Website: http://www.bny.com/wealth
Email: [email protected]
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/judy-barton
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Before we get to the show, I wanna just do our be that lawyer tip of the week. This is coming from Josh from my hometown of Highland Park, Illinois, and he asks, I hate the idea of selling my services. How can I build business without feeling salesy? Wow. That’s right up my alley since I am the sales free selling coach, and I’ve been teaching this model called Sales Free Selling for.
Over 20 years. The idea here is we’re not gonna go out and pitch. We’re not gonna go out and convince we’re not gonna go out and try to put a square peg in a round hole. We’re going to go out and evaluate prospective clients, obviously get the meetings with decision makers. Then we’re going to walk them through a buying decision through a series of steps that involves relationship building and trust.
It involves setting up a game plan so you can control the meeting, asking questions, qualifying finding their pain, finding their motivation to change. Making sure they’re qualified as the decision maker, the financial, that they have the financials to work with you, and all of this is about them.
It’s not about you. So that makes it [00:01:00] not salesy because if someone’s talking the whole time, they don’t ever feel sold. They feel like you’re really listening and understanding and empathizing. Pick up a copy of Sales Free Selling on Amazon. Also keep listening to the podcast and feel free to check me out.
But that’s really what I want everyone to figure out is how to walk people through a buying decision without feeling salesy. It’s the greatest thing since sliced bread for how to run these meetings. So hopefully that helps everybody. Please send in your questions for me to answer on the show.
Just go to [email protected], email me and shoot me a question that you’d like me to bring up on the show, and I will. That’s all I have to say. Enjoy the show everybody
Narrator: you are listening to be that lawyer, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less. Time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody. [00:02:00] Welcome back to the Be That Lawyer with Fretzin podcast. We are here twice a week for your listening pleasure and more importantly, to help you be that lawyer confident, organized, in a skilled rainmaker. This doesn’t happen by accident. We need to be very focused on becoming students of the BD game, the networking game.
There are all kinds of things that need to happen in order to be successful. As a lawyer these days. And as you guys know, I’m doing my best to bring in the most talented people I can to teach you and educate you, and help you in your journey. And today I’ve got a really special guest. I’m so excited to have Judy here with me today.
How you doing, Judy? Good to see you. Good. I’m great. Thank
Judy Barton: you
Steve Fretzin: so
Judy Barton: much
Steve Fretzin: for
Judy Barton: having me today. I’m super excited to be talking with you.
Steve Fretzin: Yes. And this was not a long time coming, but I think it was something that right away we recognized when we met that there was something here and we needed to do that.
We’ll get into that in a few minutes because I think we have a great origin story that we can share that people will appreciate. But you have a weird. That’s not a great way to start a sentence, but you have a weird quote of the show and I don’t normally read ones that are this kind [00:03:00] of I have no idea what it’s about, except I’ve got an idea, but I don’t send you to the office to read magazines.
It sounds like something we’d say to the Gen Z the Gen or the millennials, but I don’t want to go down that path. Welcome to the show and tell us what, what’s that quote all about?
Judy Barton: I love that quote. And it was something that I grew up with. My dad was a physician. My mother was very politically active, so not a traditional homemaker.
They’re both gone now. And when my dad would come home and would be talking about his day and he was really tired, my mom used to say, I don’t send you to the office to read magazines. And what’s funny is I repeat that in just to my kids. So it is something when I’m talking with either of my boys about their days.
One of them will inevitably say to me don’t send to the office to read magazines. And it’s just an homage to my parents and the work ethic that I think they both had.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah, that is something that needs to be hit over the head again and again, that, work ethic is something that will, carry you through most of life.
Because if [00:04:00] you’re the laziest person or the last one in, or people recognize that and they see you as not necessarily someone they’d want on their team or someone they’d wanna hire. And so I think, getting ahead of things, like if you’re volunteering for something, like joining a board, okay, great, step up and be a leader, do the extra effort.
Judy Barton: Absolutely. I think it tells people who you are and it tells people if they wanna choose to work with you and develop a relationship with you, honestly. Yeah. And so I think that’s just important to think about whenever you are. I. Approaching a new relationship, and that’s what we’re here to talk about today, is how to build these great referral relationships.
So I, again, I appreciate you inviting me.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Wow. Absolutely. And I’d love to have you just share a little bit of your background for those that are picking us up. This is Judy Bar. She’s a senior director at B. NY wealth, and let’s start with our origins or origin story and then let’s back into how you got into doing what you do.
But we met at the Provisor Group leader and shout out to Provisor [00:05:00] and all our friends and all our group leader friends there. And you want to, I’ll let you take it from there.
Judy Barton: Yeah, so I’m obsessive about being on time or early, and that’s also homage to my mother, who was never on time or early, and I was ready to go to the airport and waiting on some friends to take an Uber together, and one was a little tardy.
In the interim, this other friend that was there on time introduced me to you and you said I’m going to the airport. Why don’t you just go with me? And I was like, I’m ready to go, and you’re safe because we know the same people and we’re here at the same conference. Jumped in the car and we had an hour together and it was just one of the most interesting exchanges.
I learned so much about you and your practice and your family and your passion for helping attorneys to really achieve a career and a practice that they want and that really achieves their goals. And I wanted to hire you for myself, and we went and talked through all the things that I do and.
Your response was like, yeah, you’re [00:06:00] good. You’re doing the things. And so I just felt like we had instant connectivity and just really felt lucky that we were in the same Uber. And then I had you come speak to my PROVISORS group which is filled with significant number of attorneys. And I also in my practice have the major, a large part, a good majority of the.
Referral relationship that I build are also with attorneys, and I wanted to be an attorney. So I love attorneys and I love that you do too.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah. It was to your point, we didn’t stop talking for the whole hour. We just went through it and we went through our teenagers and we went through there’s, and I talk about my teenager on the show quite a bit and give.
Kind of a hard time and probably well deserved, and he doesn’t listen. So I, I’m safe. At least at this stage. He might check it out in his twenties and they’d be mad at me. I don’t know. But yeah, and learning about each other and really finding out where the connectivity was, the synergies were, and then having you invite me to come speak at your group was an absolute pleasure.
Give us a little bit of, and by the way, this is like how networking happens, everybody. Like we get together with qualified people, we sit and we [00:07:00] talk, we learn about each other, and then what’s the next step? How can we add value? Who can we introduce each other to? How can I get you on my podcast? Whatever it is that we have that will help others.
But let’s take a step back into your background and how you got into the, in the industry you’re in, and then, partnering with lawyers too.
Judy Barton: I will, I’ll explain that. But I just wanna follow up on your comment, which is. We all meet a ton of people, but when you meet people that you really connect with and you really like, you instantly want to be of support to them and them in a reciprocal way to you.
And so we’ll talk about that more, I know later in the conversation. But that’s how I felt about you. I was like, oh my gosh, this person is fantastic. I’m gonna share him with my group and maybe that will lead to additional business for him. And I just, I felt that immediately. And so I think that’s just part of our conversation today.
What we look for anyway, my background is a little bit circuitous. I started my career in corporate finance, so I worked for what used to be EDS, electronic Data [00:08:00] Systems, Ross Pros, old company, and I was fortunate enough to work with them in Dallas, Boston, dc, and London. So really just taking advantage of any experiences that were in front of me and asking and raising my hand and showing up to your earlier point.
I went to Nortel Networks and then Sodexo Marriott, all in corporate finance. And then my former spouse and I wanted to be entrepreneurs, so we opened our own printing franchise called Alpha Graphics, which is still around. And at the same time, I had also gotten into law school simultaneous to getting our SBA loans and we had to pick one or the other.
And we picked the business thinking I would then eventually go to law school and, things transpired down different paths. We had our business for 10 years. I left corporate America and was in our business, and then I left the business and moved into wealth management, which was also just a kismet type of introduction into wealth management.
And so people say that’s interesting. First of all, you seem like you’re a lawyer. A lot of [00:09:00] people ask me if I’m a lawyer. I’m like, no, but I wanted to be one. And secondly. I, bringing together my corporate finance background. And then my entrepreneurial background is what’s really helped me in launching 20 years ago into wealth management.
So I get to work with corporate executives, I get to work with business owners. I’ve been through divorce. I get to work with people going through divorce. I get to work with multi-generational families. So it was an interesting route, but it is makes sense once you explain, once I explain it.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah. It’s outstanding.
And the, I wanna bring back something you said earlier, which was, we had an exchange in the Uber to the airport where you mentioned, Hey, I’m interested in coaching and maybe you’re someone that could help me. And part of my job, whether it’s a lawyer, a financial advisor, or anybody that, primarily lawyers.
Is identifying gaps, identifying where I can be of value and be of service. And if someone has gaps and needs and things that I do, then we keep [00:10:00] talking and there’s an opportunity for us to work together. Okay. And then there’s other op situations where someone needs something very different or someone doesn’t have the gaps that I’m expecting to hear and they’re just actually killing it and they’re doing a lot of things that I would be teaching ’em anyway.
And I say, no, that’s. You don’t need me to do what you’re doing, you’re already crushing it. But here’s the thing, why don’t I get you on my podcast? Since you know so much, let’s share your wisdom with the people who could use a tip or two and could really, appreciate what you and I both know. And so I wanted to get you on the show, A, because I think you’re terrific, and B, because I think you just have a lot to share and this is a great outlet for that, especially to connect you with lawyers.
So let’s start off with me asking. How do you think about building, strengthening and growing a prac, a law practice, or any practice?
Judy Barton: I appreciate your kind word. I don’t know that my, I’m so wise, but I’ve done this. It’s repeatable. It gives me energy. And the other thing that I think is important about what I’m, how I’m about to answer your question is.[00:11:00]
I’m always looking for ways to be better. I’m always looking for who is doing what I’m doing more successfully and what are they doing that I’m not doing, or is someone else doing something more creatively? And so I think having that open mind of learning and trying things maybe out of your comfort zone is important, but the way I’ve thought about building and strengthening and growing my practice.
I boil it down to three things. First one is branding. The second one is building reciprocal relationships. That’s really important. And the third one is, when I’m meeting people, I want to exude for me a culture of integrity. So who do I stand for? Is it the firm I’m with? Is it as an attorney? Would it be my own firm?
But how do I. Share my culture and how is that [00:12:00] impactful into my practice? And more importantly, how is that gonna benefit the people in that I’m developing relationships with and their clients. So those are the three things. Branding, building reciprocal relationships, and really exuding a culture of integrity.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and I think I, I talk a lot about marketing and business development and how they meet two sides of the mountain meeting at the peak. And I feel like people need to do all of that at the same time. I think my preference is to spend more time on the relationships and the integrity, but I don’t wanna leave out the branding.
So can you just give us branding? ’cause it’s a broad term and how do you break it down into specific actions that you’ve taken to build your brand?
Judy Barton: I’m gonna rattle through those specific actions very quickly, so I think that’s the more tactical answer. But I also wanna give you the 30,000 foot level strategic answer.
So when someone is thinking about their brand, there’s two parts of that. It’s how do you quickly communicate to someone what you do, who you do it [00:13:00] for, and how you do it. It’s also secondarily, what do people say about you when you are not there, when they’re trying to introduce you or refer you to someone?
So I always think of being behind a, being in a ski boat or a motorboat, and then you know, the weight that the boat leaves behind. And I always think about, okay, when I walk away from a group or a person or what, like what are they saying about me? And so to me, that’s the strategic part of branding.
Tactically, I’m just gonna literally rattle through all of these different things that I think is branding. First is, and I tried to do it in the car with you, listen first and more, ask a lot of questions, and the person that you are working to build that relationship with and build your brand with is going to tell you the answers of what you need to say to them.
The second one is when [00:14:00] you are talking about what you do or who you do it with or how you do it with passion and conviction. And I think you can tell I am very passionate about what I do and how I do it, and people sense that. I think the next thing is I. If you’re not sure how to articulate your own message, listen to people around you that have more experience than you and you don’t like.
You don’t have to make it up on your own. You can take bits and pieces, but you do need to craft it to feel like your own, so that when people ask you hey, Steve, what do you do? It doesn’t sound scripted. It doesn’t sound like you’re imitating someone else at your firm.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah,
Judy Barton: I think that.
Really important about branding is that in our own industries, I think we all sound the same in my industry. In your industry, people hear coaching, okay, there’s lots of coaches out there. People here, you’re a, trust and estate attorney. There’s lots of trust and estate attorneys out there.
So when you’re talking to someone about your brand, how do you differentiate yourself from [00:15:00] all of the others out there? And how do you say it in a way that somebody can actually understand? What you’re saying, because again, you don’t wanna use jargon and buzzwords and acronyms because that makes us all sound the same.
I don’t talk about standard deviation and asset allocation. I talk about how what’s going on in the markets make people feel about their money. It either makes them feel good or makes them feel poorly,
Steve Fretzin: or maybe just interject, why do you do what you do? What’s your why in, the idea that I wanna make the legal industry better than I found it, and I wanna leave this planet knowing that I made a difference that matters to people that.
Are interested in talking with me. And I think lawyers need to convey their why, they do what they do, how they do it better, faster, stronger. And think about to your point, what is unique about you in the space because there are so many players. And if you’re not memorable, then you’re just one of a thousand that they’re never gonna mention.
You have to make yourself
Judy Barton: memorable, but you have to know why you’re different than [00:16:00] everybody else and why that person should hire you or engage you as an attorney. I think sometimes in branding, I. You’re asking questions and you’re having that rapport. You have to be comfortable asking uncomfortable questions, and those can be what is it that.
Is not enjoyable for you in that process, or what is it in working with people like me that you don’t like? What is it in working with people like me that you do who do you currently work with now? Why do you refer to them? Everyone knows why you’re having that conversation with someone, so there’s no like elephant in the room.
But for some reason I think people are so uncomfortable in. Asking those difficult questions, so getting comfortable in asking those difficult questions. And lastly, tactically, to build your brand. I think looking for opportunities to speak, to publish, to present. I have really focused on that last year and this year.
And number one, it’s because I really enjoy it. Number two, I think it pushes me outta my comfort zone, and number three, it becomes part of my brand. Yeah,
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Subscribe for free at Raise the Bar media.co. I think the big challenge that lawyers have is that they wanna build their brand. They know it’s important, but it does take time and that’s something that they is a limited resource and so how to speak effectively and get business from it or how to write and actually see a return on that effort is a big part of I.
The trick that they may not be getting. Do you have a take on like I’m [00:18:00] doing, networking or I’m doing speaking, but I’m not necessarily able to generate business that way. What’s the missing piece there in your take?
Judy Barton: I think you have to be comfortable with giving before receiving, and this is something that I think is important as you’re developing reciprocal relationships.
That’s true in speaking and branding. I think sometimes you just have to be willing to give and be present. So if you’re really trying to develop a niche area as an attorney, or really trying to get known in, one of your industry recognized areas like Act Tech or a ML or something like that.
You have to show up. You just have to show up and I think that becomes part of really having more effective use of your time because then people are like, oh, Steve, I remember I met you at the last time. What have you been doing? It just lead to deepening that conversation, but it also shows who you are.
Steve Fretzin: Now showing up, asking questions, and I think a big part, the big word that we need to bring into this conversation, especially with relationships and [00:19:00] networking, is qualifying, and I know that’s a weird word people don’t think of when they think of networking. However, not everyone you meet is created equal as it relates to who you should be spending more time with.
If I meet, and again, nothing against. The local Amway salesman or Avon lady. Okay. Or person, whatever. But the idea is that there are people who are more strategic to me that I can help and that can help me than just anybody. People, I hate when people say anybody can refer me.
That’s true, but there are people that can refer you five or 10 times a year. Is that a better person for you to invest time in?
Judy Barton: Absolutely. So I think that the points you’re making are really part of how I think about developing reciprocal relationships and. One of those key things that it really took me a long time to grasp and accept is that we need a ton of nice people.
Everybody’s a nice person, but our time is limited. We don’t have unlimited discretionary time, so while everybody’s nice, you have to be discerning in who you’re [00:20:00] gonna spend time with, who can generate. Opportunities for referrals for you. And so it’s okay to say, Hey, that’s a nice person. I’m just not gonna continue to invest and spend time with them.
Not ’cause they’re not a great person, but I’m really focusing this part of my time, my life, my work, building relationships that are reciprocal, where I’m creating opportunities for referrals. So I think you have to have some discipline, and I didn’t necessarily have that early in my career. I was like, oh, I, if I just meet with them again and I meet with them again, and I meet with them again, there’s gonna be a referral.
And meanwhile, you just have to say you’re, they’re a great person. This is not generating business opportunities for me.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah, there are people that should be your friends and there are people that should be your friends and more. And the people that are friends and more, they’re the people who you’ve qualified.
That you like them, you trust them, you find common ground. They are in a position to help you. You’re in a position to help them. It’s something that can grow in [00:21:00] over time, and that’s a little bit like the Pareto principle, the 80 20, and the idea is that you may have to start out, I. Meeting a lot of people and building your network wide, but ultimately the goal is to build it deep.
And if you could spend 80% of your time with 20% of the people that you know you’ve already qualified isn’t that gonna be a better use of your time than going out and meeting strangers and new people, all day long, all week long, and all month long? And you have the people that can get you the business are right in front of you.
Judy Barton: Absolutely. I equate it to the analogy of going to the eye doctor, you wear glasses, I’ve got my contacts in. When you go to the eye doctor, they put those lenses in front of you and they go, what looks better? A or B. A or B. And they keep doing that until they narrow down what your prescription needs to be.
And that’s the same way as your clients. You, the attorneys out there that you work with are, I think, thinking about. Focusing and building these reciprocal relationships is, yes, you have to meet a lot of people. And when you meet a lot of people, you become really [00:22:00] skilled at figuring out who is going to be a good opportunity for referring business.
And then of those people, who do you really like and who do you wanna spend time with? And you just get better at it. You don’t necessarily wanna say, oh, I’m gonna, I wanna go after that one and that one. Sometimes some of the best opportunities to refer to you are ones that are maybe were not ones that you had targeted.
Yeah. So I think we get better at that skill.
Steve Fretzin: I think one of the concerns that lawyers have in other professionals that are either new to networking or veterans at it, but haven’t seen the return on investment of time, is they don’t know what to give. Like they don’t have a laundry list in their head of how to add value for others.
And maybe it would make sense for you and I to team up and try to throw out a number of things that we would agree are ways of greasing the wheels or laying the carpet in front of us, whatever we [00:23:00] wanna. Say, but I think that first introduction or that first added value, and then the other things we can do along the way, that might be a good thing to share.
Judy Barton: I agree, and I think that. Asking questions will help you figure out how to be the giver first. So questions like what I do with, specifically with attorneys, and I think it works with attorneys. Building relationships with each other is typically where do your clients come from? Lot of attorneys say their business comes from other attorneys.
Oh really well. What kind of attorneys typically refer you business? This kind and this kind well is, are those attorneys typically in your firm in different cities, or are they attorneys in that industry, in other cities, or are they just attorneys in where you live? So really exploring and.
I would be careful to, I, this happened to me once, I met with somebody one time, a long time ago, and we had one meeting and at the end of the meeting [00:24:00] he had written down a list of 15 people that he was going to introduce me to, and it actually made me feel like he did that for everybody. He was just like, oh, I’m gonna introduce you to all these people. And it was really about making him look like people he knew. And that he was gonna help me and I, and so I’m really careful. I want what I’m doing for someone, or their first introduction or that first opportunity for me to put a marble in the jar.
That’s what I call it. I wanna put the marbles in the jar first, is I want it to be a value to them. So you and I were talking about our kids, and when you ask people, and this is one of the really key things I think about building reciprocal relationships is, yeah, we’re both attorneys. It. I’m projecting as far as one of your clients talking with another peer, an attorney peer.
We’re both attorneys, but we’re also people, right? So we like to have hobbies. Maybe we both travel, maybe we have families. Maybe we’re both pet parents. I. So I think [00:25:00] part of building those reciprocal relationships and putting a marble in the jar first is also saying, I’m a human and you’re a human.
It’s not and when I approach this, I don’t wanna come and be, I am an investment professional and let me talk to you about, I. Asset allocation. I like, I wanna tell you about my kids and I wanna tell you about the trip I just went on and I wanna see what trip you’re going on, or whatever the case is.
And I think people just, you leapfrog into more connectivity. And sometimes I talk about the personal stuff with somebody. Before we get into the practice or sometimes the business stuff. Yo, where’d you go to law school? Oh, you know what? I know someone who went to law school there in my front. Just trying to find those points of connectivity.
Part of that is also researching someone before you meet with them. So please, whoever might be listening, if you have a meeting set up. In this day and age, it’s pretty easy to look up information about someone and not in a weird stalker way, but there is Instagram and [00:26:00] Facebook and the firm website of the law firm and Google, and there’s a lot and I just think it shows that you’re actually interested in them and you have respect for their time.
And if you can drop in some little something. Again, not in a weird stalker kind of way, but okay, wait, hang on a minute Steve, I wanna ask you a question. I can’t tell if you grew up in Massachusetts or you grew up in Texas because the two schools you went to, I’m just trying to figure out which is your home state and that, and so I made that up.
Yep.
Steve Fretzin: But that’s opening the door says to
Judy Barton: someone like, you took time to see that. I went to. Whatever law school and I went to here undergrad or just something like that. Yeah. So I think that’s a really key point.
Steve Fretzin: It’s so overplayed the, Jordan jersey behind me or the weather in Chicago, it’s so cold.
Or, there’s so many, I’ve got, I. I don’t know. I’m just making up a number, but let’s say I’ve [00:27:00] got 60 pages of information literally on Google. You could type my name in and there’s 60 page, an article, a podcast, something you know in the news, whatever it might be. Have something to ask someone about to get them talking and find that.
Connection, find that what I call a natural affinity. You and I had a natural affinity through talking about our kids. We had a natural affinity talking about provisors and also about sales, right? And our affinity to sales and our backgrounds in it. So if you don’t find that, it’s much more challenging to build trust.
And so that’s a great way through asking questions to your point to get that out on the table. And then of course, helping people and putting that marble in the jar. I love that. With, helping them personally making a connection to a CPA or a lawyer that would be useful to that person, inviting them to attend a networking event the way you did, having me speak at your group, having you on my podcast, like, how are we developing the relationship over, not a day, but let’s say over months, and [00:28:00] then just it continues to figure out, is this something that’s gonna stick and that I wanna stay with?
Or have we played it out and maybe it’s time to move on and we just keep in touch, here and there. You have to determine that for yourself based on, what’s transpired.
Judy Barton: Yeah. I work with a lot of attorneys that is a primary source other than CPAs of where my perspective new clients come from.
So typically it’s attorneys who are working with their clients who are going through some kind of transition or transaction and that. That has evolved into my brand. I work with clients who are going through transition or transaction, but as you and I were talking, I was thinking in the Uber, I was thinking to myself you love working with attorneys and I love working with attorneys.
And as I learned more about what you did, I was like, oh God, I think he would be great to come talk to all the attorneys in my group and also everyone else in my PROVISORS group. So just through that initial conversation of what do you do and how do you do it, who do you do it for? We then established.
Mutual interests, [00:29:00] mutual connection, and by the time we got out, I was like, oh my gosh, I, this is like my new favorite person. Nice. Yeah. And but not every meeting is your new favorite person, right? That’s where you have to figure out, do I invest more or do I move on? But that is how it happens, I think.
Steve Fretzin: And that’s why it’s a little bit like dating too. Like you have to meet with some people and say, oh, this person’s a smoker. Not for me. This person, ordered the most expensive thing on the menu in our first date. That’s not for me. Like you figure out through it, first of all, have targets to go after people that are more likely to be reciprocal than others, and then meet with them and know that if you meet with five CPAs.
And I’m not making this, I’m making this up, but outta five CPAs, one is gonna totally get networking and be a great connector. And the other four probably less and I’m just, that’s something I just made up, but I think that’s true. We only have a minute left and I want to get to your game changing podcast and then our sponsors and all that.
The one thing that we really didn’t get into, and again, this has gotta be like a one minute drill, is yeah, you mentioned about exuding the culture of integrity, and I just wanna [00:30:00] just throw that on top of everything that we’ve already shared. I think it’s really important for people to know who
Judy Barton: you are, and for me, I want to exude that.
I want people to know that I like working with my coworkers, that I actually think that my coworkers are really brilliant, and I also think that my firm, I. Is so highly client focused and client centric, and we actually call it being client obsessed. And so my firm, this may be hokey, but they produced our pillars and our principles and I literally keep it at my desk so I can look at it.
And so exuding a culture to me is being client obsessed. Staying curious. So continuing my education. I got my Master’s in legal studies because I didn’t get to go to law school, but I graduated a few years ago with my master’s in legal studies because I wanted to stay curious. And then the third thing is thriving [00:31:00] together.
So I. Like everyone in the firm is my team. And so maybe you’re in a firm as an attorney, where maybe you’re a little siloed. So investing time in knowing other people in your firm and knowing other people in other cities and knowing the associates and knowing the admin staff. You just.
Striving together lifts everybody up. So that’s what I mean in terms of exuding a culture of integrity.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I think of, when I think of integrity, I think of also, doing what you say you’re gonna do. And I think there’s a lot of people who talk a big game and then struggle with the commitments they made and executing on ’em.
And I think that you can lose that culture of integrity or lose that relationship because you’re not executing and following through. And it’s at the kind of, at the heart of what. Relationships are all about, if I tell someone I’m gonna meet ’em somewhere and I just don’t show, or I tell somebody I’m gonna, they’re, I’m gonna, Hey, I want you to move in with me and then I don’t allow it or whatever, play that game out.
But the idea is that has to [00:32:00] be a part of it. We have to execute on what we say. And, if you don’t know that people are paying attention
Judy Barton: a hundred percent. If you, if I say I’m gonna do something in a meeting, one of this is like one of my obsessive things is I absolutely a hundred percent get it done.
And that even means. I confirm a meeting the day before when I send a calendar invite, like you confirmed with me yesterday because I was traveling, so I didn’t get to confirm with you. You beat me to it. So good for you. Yeah, but confirming your meetings, sending a calendar invite that is clear and concise and has all of the information.
Just doing those little things and showing up. Is part of that integrity. Yeah, it absolutely is.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Fantastic stuff. I know everybody listening is, getting a tremendous amount out of what you’re sharing today. And I hope so because it’s all gold. You were so kind. I always ask what’s your game changing book, game changing podcast?
And you were so kind. You said yours. So you’re checking out the Be That Lawyer podcast on a regular.
Judy Barton: Absolutely. You and I are both a little lawyer [00:33:00] obsessed, so you know, and I think so much of what you share and what you say is really applicable and the lawyer community is really lucky to have you as a resource for them.
So I’m not, I’m really not just saying that. I was like. I want you to help me. So I think there, I love the podcast.
Steve Fretzin: I appreciate that. And if you’re listening, don’t be shy about sharing it with other lawyers that you know, because we are, trying to, help the industry. And I think the more people that get to hear.
My amazing guests like Judy and others, it’s all about, all ships rise. And that saying, take a moment to just thank our wonderful sponsors. Of course we’ve got law, her podcast, you’re gonna wanna check that out, Judy, that might be good too. It’s all about empowering women and legal and my friend Sonya Palmer, doing a great job over there.
And of course, Chris Dryer doing the PIM Con personal injury conference every year. This one’s in October and you guys are gonna wanna check that out. And see what that’s all about. If you haven’t been, it’s top notch. And if Judy, if people wanna get in touch with you, they want to hear more about your practice, they wanna network with you, what are the best ways for them to reach out?
Judy Barton: I’m available on LinkedIn. [00:34:00] My contact information is there. Also. My email’s pretty easy. [email protected]. So happy. My passion is helping people through transition or transaction to ensure that they feel safe and secure with the wealth that’s been created for the rest of their lives.
Steve Fretzin: Just awesome.
Thank you so much. I know that you and I are just at the beginning stages, even though it may not seem to everybody that we just did the beginning stages, but we, we just met in, when did we meet? October. October. And then we’ve been keeping in the loop and helping each other a little bit here and there.
And I’d like to see more of that as we move forward. ’cause I think we can each put each other at the top of the list and say both lawyer crazy, both know a ton of people. Why not rinse and repeat and put those marbles and jars?
Judy Barton: I agree with you a hundred percent. I’m so honored that you would invite me to your podcast.
Thank you so much, Steve.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah, thank you. And I appreciate everybody hanging out with Judy and I today, again, working to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized, in a skilled rainmaker. Take care, everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll talk again soon.[00:35:00]
Narrator: Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.