Manuj Aggarwal: Trending Technology to Build Better Relationships

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Manuj Aggarwal discuss:

  • Why law is behind in other businesses, especially in the realm of technology.
  • Sales, marketing, and scaling your law firm.
  • Benefits of building a network and keeping in touch with your relationships.
  • Using technology to maintain and strengthen network and client relationships.

Key Takeaways:

  • Running a business is a different skill set than practicing law. But it is a skill that can be learned through practice, understanding your unique skills, and understanding the market around you.
  • Use technology to build systems to help you maintain contact with people in your network. It is still authentic, but it keeps you top of mind and keeps the relationships strong.
  • When using AI technology, such as ChatGPT, ask better questions and tell better stories.
  • We live in an attention economy – whoever has the attention, gets the business.

“As things get more and more automated, the value of human connection and relationships will continue to go higher. If you want to survive in the next wave of technology, focus on that – focus on building those networks and relationships.” —  Manuj Aggarwal

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About Manuj Aggarwal: 

Manuj Aggarwal, is the founder and Chief Innovation Officer of TetraNoodle Technologies, an elite AI consulting company. With a remarkable track record of driving transformative change, Manuj, through TetraNoodle, has touched at least 10 million lives and generated over $500M in value through his expertise in technology and AI. He has shared his insights at the United Nations alongside distinguished figures like the Secretary-General and Nobel Peace Prize winners, while President Obama and Bill Gates have recognized his work. With four AI patents to his name, Manuj is the perfect mentor to guide you through the transformative potential of AI and its benefits for businesses. Join us and discover the limitless possibilities of AI under the guidance of this visionary industry influencer.

Connect with Manuj Aggarwal:  






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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.


[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hello, everyone. Have you ever wondered how much more business you could be generating each month? Well, you can take the Be That Lawyer challenge to find out. If I’m unable to help you find the money that’s been evading you, I’ll pay your hourly rate for the time invested together. Just go to Fretzin.

[00:00:15] Steve Fretzin: com to sign up. I’m challenging you. Now enjoy the show.

[00:00:23] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host.

[00:00:45] Steve Fretzin: Well, hey, everybody, welcome to Be That Lawyer. I am, as you know, Steve Fretzin, the host, been doing this a long time. It’s coming up on, I think, four years and 350 shows, and this is your opportunity as a lawyer to grow, to develop, to learn, and to take some time for yourself to work on the business, not in the business, not filling hours.

[00:01:04] Steve Fretzin: And, uh, not doing administrative tasks. Uh, hopefully you’re doing, you’re doing something productive while you’re listening to this, like walking your dog or in the car, I don’t know, but you know, I just enjoy doing this and I love to meet new and interesting people. And, um, I don’t even know how we got connected.

[00:01:19] Steve Fretzin: Do you remember how we got

[00:01:20] Manuj Aggarwal: connected? I think it was through Podmatch.

[00:01:23] Steve Fretzin: Through Podmatch. Okay. So there’s a, there’s a, uh, a website slash platform called Podmatch that connects podcasters and podcast guests. And I’ve, I’ve done that to get on shows. I’ve done that to get great guests like you. Um, and I just appreciate you being here today.

[00:01:37] Steve Fretzin: Uh, we love the quote of the show. Yours is, is maybe the most simple and maybe one of the more powerful quotes that we have maybe up there with like, just do it. It is what it is. And we don’t know who came up with that, but you must use that on a regular basis. Is that the case? Yeah,

[00:01:51] Manuj Aggarwal: exactly. You know, many times we look at life and say, Oh, you know, I wish it, this was true.

[00:01:56] Manuj Aggarwal: I wish I had this. But you know, when you just understand it is what it is, like, you know, you just go

[00:02:03] Steve Fretzin: with the flow. It sounds like something your father would say to you, right? Like, I want to get candy. Well, you can’t have candy. It is what it is.

[00:02:09] Manuj Aggarwal: Um, not my father, like, you know, I’ve had many mentors. So one of my mentors used to say, used to say


[00:02:16] Steve Fretzin: Okay. All right. So you’re a mentor. Yeah. But, but someone, someone that wiser than us at the moment at the time. So very cool. Well. Um, Manoj Agarwal is the CEO and founder of Tetra Noodle Technology. I actually practiced your name before and then just totally didn’t get it as smooth as I had. Don’t know you got it all.

[00:02:34] Steve Fretzin: I said, I said it like three times to myself like perfectly and then I get on tape and I screw it up. So there you go. You are very well known and recognized authority and not only growing business, but in AI. And so, you know, there are a lot of lawyers that are not very comfortable with business, the business side of it, certainly the business development side, my world, they’re totally uncomfortable.

[00:02:55] Steve Fretzin: Not people listening to this show, but others, other lawyers. And so we, we, you know, really enjoy and appreciate, um, having people, you know, dissect and kind of work through some of these things. Before we get into that, I want to obviously, you know, love to share your background and leading up to your Be That Lawyer tipping point.

[00:03:11] Manuj Aggarwal: Yeah. So my background obviously is technology. I’ve been in technology field for about 30 years. My journey started in India, um, 30 years ago, like, like I used to work in a factory, uh, making a couple of dollars a day. And, uh, Something parked my interest in sort of, you know, uh, achieving something bigger than who I was at that time, uh, growing rapidly because I got some inspired inspiration from some, um, business magazines and the stories of some other successful people.

[00:03:45] Manuj Aggarwal: And so I started following that path, which led me into technology. And, um, and being passionate about technology, I’ve always tried to, you know, the latest and greatest. Changes that are happening in the world. So, uh, and that journey led me into artificial intelligence, uh, building systems for, you know, uh, startups or large companies, and then, uh, applying similar principles to business growth.

[00:04:13] Manuj Aggarwal: And, uh, you know, because every business now is practically a technology business.

[00:04:19] Steve Fretzin: Everybody’s got to lean into the future and technology. Otherwise you’re getting left in the past. I think that’s really where legal has made great strides, but at the same time, generally, it’s a slow moving train that’s far behind other industries.

[00:04:32] Steve Fretzin: So in one of the areas that, you know, I taught touch on quite often is how law firms really are run like traditional businesses, right? You have a CEO. You have operations, you have all these people laid out to handle different elements of a business and in the law firm world, it’s a managing partner and then maybe there’s a some executive committee and like everybody’s, you know, the inmates are run the asylum, if you will.

[00:04:56] Steve Fretzin: So, I mean, first of all, why do you think that is? Why do you think law is kind of behind the other traditional businesses that you come in contact with?

[00:05:03] Manuj Aggarwal: You know, it’s, it’s not, it’s not unique, actually, you know, any professional services, they are primarily run by people who are experts in a certain field, right?

[00:05:12] Manuj Aggarwal: So as human beings. Uh, you know, we, we have built a society where a person who is, who’s an expert, they go very deep into one topic and they get really, really good at that, right? So lawyers are going to be really good at law. You know, doctors are going to be really good at, uh, you know, uh, diagnosing dentists are going to be really good at, you know, cleaning your teeth and whatnot.

[00:05:34] Manuj Aggarwal: But running a business is a totally different skill set. And moreover, uh, running the business actually has many components. Uh, so the first one being sales and sales is something that is not taught in, in school or, you know, they basically give you the skill and they say, okay, figure out how to sell your skill.

[00:05:55] Manuj Aggarwal: And that is one of the most difficult things to do to be able to sell anything. I mean, that where you have to earn the trust of the person and you have to make them believe what you bring to the table is, is valuable. And you are better than the competition. And, and so these, these are not like skills that you can just develop because uh, it takes a lot of understanding of the market, understanding what your unique skill sets are, maybe, you know, being in law, you may be really good at a specific type of, you know, situation or specific type of, uh, I don’t know.

[00:06:31] Manuj Aggarwal: I mean, uh, uh, like specific area of law, uh, and, um, Now, in order to market that, in order to sell that, you need these different skill sets, and so that is

[00:06:43] Steve Fretzin: But, but where would, where would they learn that? Let’s just, I wonder, where would they learn that? Is there, if there was only a coach, if there was only someone, oh, wait a second, someone like me.

[00:06:52] Steve Fretzin: You know, I’m goofing around, but, but yeah, I mean, that’s why the, there’s so many Lawyer coaches today, you know, me and dozens and dozens of others, because there’s a such a need to help lawyers with the skills that they didn’t learn in law school, that they aren’t picking up at the big firm, mid market law firm level.

[00:07:10] Steve Fretzin: And so I think, you know, sales and marketing, that is all a learned skill. People think it’s not. That’s a natural rainmaker. That’s a bunch of BS. It’s, it’s a learned skill and so that exists, what’s another element that other than sales that really is a key component to, to getting it, making it more of a business.

[00:07:28] Steve Fretzin: And

[00:07:29] Manuj Aggarwal: then the other thing is like, how do you scale it? Because, uh, at the end of the day, uh, traditionally the law, uh, legal profession is made based on selling time, right? And so, um, That’s the, that’s the, uh, uh, the most precious commodity on, on planet earth. Yeah. You cannot add more times. The only way to grow is to increase your value so that you can charge higher and higher for the same amount of time, or a better way, in my opinion, is like to start.

[00:07:58] Manuj Aggarwal: Figuring out how to clone yourself and scale it horizontally so that you don’t have to like, you know, have any limit on your potential,

[00:08:06] Steve Fretzin: right? Yeah, that’s one of the hardest things for lawyers to sort of wrap their heads around is that If you’re billing 2, 000, 2, 500, you know, hours a year, and you’re not building your client base, if you’re not running something and getting other people to do the bill under you, that, that’s all you can be.

[00:08:25] Steve Fretzin: That’s all you can do in a given year, because that’s your time. And so in that, again, it’s not for everybody to own a business and be an entrepreneur, but I think even if you’re at a big firm, you still need to be somewhat of an entrepreneur to understand that you have your own clients underneath the umbrella of that bigger firm.

[00:08:42] Steve Fretzin: It’s still what you have to manage.

[00:08:44] Manuj Aggarwal: Exactly. And then as you go through these clients and, you know, gain more experience. You have to be on the lookout for where, where is more success. I mean, money is one aspect of, uh, you know, you could be looking for. More higher value niches of law, or, you know, some people are more satisfied towards social causes.

[00:09:09] Manuj Aggarwal: So they may be going after that, uh, specific niche, uh,

[00:09:14] Steve Fretzin: or just going after bigger targets, right? Like instead of going after the small fish, go after the bigger fish and any particular industry or, or type of, yeah, type of law. Right. So like a state planners that are doing. Small mom and pop estate plans could go after business owners.

[00:09:29] Steve Fretzin: They can go after millionaires and, and work on bigger, more complex estate plans that might have lots of moving parts. And that’s going to be a way to get maybe more for that time or more for the value for the time that you’re putting in, then doing the same small repetitious stuff. Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, very cool.

[00:09:46] Steve Fretzin: So then what, what are some of the keys to running an efficient business? What, how do lawyers, you know, build and scale and run something efficiently when that’s not taught?

[00:09:56] Manuj Aggarwal: See, this is where technology comes in because, um, uh, technology as you, as you plot the progress of technology from the invention of the wheel or, uh, you know, the invention of the printing press, it has all ways brought a leveling playground for people.

[00:10:15] Manuj Aggarwal: So what do I mean by that? Like even, even if we go like, you know, a hundred, 200 years ago, most of us were, we were working in the fields for. You know, 90 hours a week just to put some, uh, food on the table. But now we have so much more opportunity with technology, with the internet, with all of these, uh, uh, tools that are available to us that anybody can build an audience, anybody can go out there and market their business.

[00:10:41] Manuj Aggarwal: So as, uh, technology progresses, people need to leverage that and fill in the gap for scaling their business, for operating their business. Like, you know, we, we talked to a lot of clients and. Most of them are running their business on spreadsheet. Like they don’t even have a list of their clients in a, in some sort of a system where they know, you know, the history of the client and whatnot.

[00:11:04] Manuj Aggarwal: And now with AI, a lot of people understand that AI is going to disrupt their businesses, but they don’t know how to get started, how to leverage it. But if you start to embrace it, this is just another skill, just like sales and marketing. And this can give you a huge, huge edge, uh, over competition.

[00:11:25] Steve Fretzin: So what are, so, you know, we can talk about chat GBT and that type of AI.

[00:11:29] Steve Fretzin: Are there other technologies that are really helping advance? Um, either marketing is done, how follow up is done, how, how bills are put, I mean, there’s a lot, I mean, there’s a whole legal tech show in Chicago every year, and it’s loaded with all these new, innovative companies that have ways of making things more efficient, right?

[00:11:49] Steve Fretzin: I’m using, for example, and one of my wonderful sponsors, Lawmatics. Well, I’m using that for my CRM, my database management. I’m leveraging it for contracts. I’m leveraging it for scheduling. I’m leveraging it for, so like you’re on my podcast. I’ve got now a setup where all the podcast people that I’ve worked with are going to be getting some, you know, seemingly from me, but there’ll be automated, right?

[00:12:11] Steve Fretzin: Like emails to say, Hey man, just checking in with you. How’s it going? You want to catch up some time. You want to be back on the show. You want this, you want that, that type of technology saving me. I mean, countless, countless hours.

[00:12:24] Manuj Aggarwal: That’s a wonderful, wonderful way to, to demonstrate that, right? So you are an exception to the rule.

[00:12:34] Manuj Aggarwal: Okay. So first of all, people don’t even realize the benefit of keeping in touch and having, uh, a regular communication with people who you have talked to, they don’t understand the, the, the benefits of building a network. Okay. So you understand that and that is the first hurdle in people’s growth. Right.

[00:12:59] Manuj Aggarwal: The second hurdle then is, okay, how do I keep in touch with people? Because you know, as I go through life, I meet hundreds of people and now it is so difficult for me to keep track of things, remember their names, their birthdays, whatnot. Um, and, uh, that’s why people, uh, even if they have the intention to keep in.

[00:13:18] Manuj Aggarwal: Uh, touch with people, they, they don’t do it, but you have taken it to the next level and said, okay, I want to keep in touch. But since I, you know, there is, there’s not enough time in the day, I’m going to use technology to help me do that. Right. And so you went ahead and implemented those system and now you are getting the benefits of all this.

[00:13:39] Manuj Aggarwal: Yeah,

[00:13:40] Steve Fretzin: and it’s not, and I’m not meeting with everybody, you know, if you’re limited on time, which lawyers are and I am, you know, you set up and design how much contact you want there to be. If it’s me sending an article out, that’s easy, everybody can get that. If it’s actually scheduling another meeting with somebody or multiple meetings a year, that’s not for everybody.

[00:13:59] Steve Fretzin: I mean, I’ve got a database of, you know, 20, 000, so it’s not going to happen. But is there, are there 30 to 50 people that I value in such a way that, that keeping in close contact would be valuable. Of course.

[00:14:12] Manuj Aggarwal: Yeah, exactly. But these are the things that people need to realize, and this is where technology helps.

[00:14:17] Manuj Aggarwal: Right. And now, now it’s like for you, it’s like, you know, set it up and forget about it. And then when somebody new in, in your business comes in, who do you want to. Keep in touch with on regular basis. You just add them to the list, right? There is no overhead on your part. And so this is a great example of how technology helps.

[00:14:37] Manuj Aggarwal: Now you take it one step further and say, you know, I want to look for new clients and how do I make sure that there is a steady. Sort of stream of new clients and more valuable clients coming to me. And that, again, you can start using technology to start reaching out to prospect and start sharing your expertise online.

[00:14:56] Manuj Aggarwal: In many cases, what has happened now. Like we are living in an attention economy. Now, whoever has the attention gets the business in the past. It used to be, you know, uh, billboards or, you know, uh, those, uh, billboards at the bus

[00:15:12] Steve Fretzin: stop, boards and TVs and exactly,

[00:15:15] Manuj Aggarwal: exactly. It’s all LinkedIn. Um, you know, Facebook, so go out there and these are, these are free platforms.

[00:15:22] Manuj Aggarwal: And so what you are doing as well, like you are providing value before you. Actually receive something. So you are recording this podcast for the good of others and you’re sharing it for free, right? So this is the world we live in now where you provide value first and credit online, use technology, and then people start to trust you because you are, you are giving something away of value for, or no expectation whatsoever.

[00:15:50] Manuj Aggarwal: And that’s what establishes the trust. Yeah. Um, these are, these are simple things that you can start doing. I’m not even going into the operational side of the business and all that.

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[00:17:54] Steve Fretzin: And are there, are there particular technologies that have come on the scene in the last six months to a year that you either use personally or that you recommend? Maybe there are things that others haven’t heard about that, you know, would benefit them in a variety of ways. I’m not saying it has to be sales or marketing.

[00:18:11] Steve Fretzin: It could be. You know, time management, it could be just efficiency or what are, what are a couple of your favorites? Oh,

[00:18:18] Manuj Aggarwal: so obviously chat GPT is, is the number one tool. Um, we always like, so my company builds custom AI solutions. So, uh, rather than bill, you know, using all these tools, which are available off the shelf, we tend to build our own solutions based on our client’s requirements.

[00:18:38] Manuj Aggarwal: So our focus is basically. Looking at the everyday life of an entrepreneur. So as you said, first, um, time management. And yes, there are many tools available, calendars available for you to manage your time, but still you have so much going on. Many of us, you know, we are always stressed out. Oh, did I remember to do this?

[00:19:01] Manuj Aggarwal: Did I forget this, you know, this leaf list of ongoing things. So how do we like reduce that? How do we make sure that, uh, you know, AI and, uh, technologies can like really behave like your assistant and take all that stress away from you. Right. That, that’s one. The second one, um, is like, you know, what we were talking about, how do we build an audience of your ideal client?

[00:19:27] Manuj Aggarwal: So. Building an audience is like sort of a, you know, very, um, marketing focused activity, but we combine the power of a neuroscience and AI to help people, you know, build that audience very quickly. So these are the type of, uh, innovations that are happening in the field in terms of, uh, people, uh, what they can use in their business, I think if they start with chat GPT and for the visual aspect, um, mid journey.

[00:19:57] Manuj Aggarwal: Is another tool. Mid

[00:20:00] Steve Fretzin: journey, mid

[00:20:01] Manuj Aggarwal: journey. So what it does is like, you know, you can create very, uh, interesting images and also almost like photogenic, like hyper realistic photos of any situation you can think of. And when you, um, you know, use that in your storytelling and in your presentations, uh, your web pages, your social media posts, you get attention very quickly because, you know, it’s such a unique.

[00:20:30] Manuj Aggarwal: A thing to look at.

[00:20:31] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, that’s really interesting. I was looking at, um, chat, GBT, but then I was saying, Hey, I wish there was a graphics thing where I could tell her what I wanted graphically. And I think they have something that isn’t quite out yet, unless you no, no,

[00:20:44] Manuj Aggarwal: but you have to just pay. Yeah. I, in chat, GPT there, they added dolly three, darling three.

[00:20:49] Manuj Aggarwal: Yeah. Yeah. So if you have a. Uh, plus subscription to JAD GPT, you have image generation there as well, but I find the mid journey seems to be a little bit more easier to use for beginners. Um, and it provides a little bit more sort of, um, versatile imagery in my, in my experience, but both are fantastic. So the idea is that what I tell people is use these tools for two reasons, mainly, I mean.

[00:21:17] Manuj Aggarwal: The first thing is ask better questions because you know, this is a super intelligent AI available to you. So anything that, that you’re wondering about, about your business or life, start asking those questions and then tell better stories because, um, once you find those answers, if you share them in, in the form of stories, you know, they, they, they stick around better in our minds because as humans, we, we like stories over facts.

[00:21:46] Steve Fretzin: And right now I’m going back as mid journey free. Is that still in beta? Like you could get and try it like chat, GBT. No,


[00:21:51] Manuj Aggarwal: no. You can, yeah, yeah, you can sign up. Okay. Okay.

[00:21:55] Steve Fretzin: Okay. I’ll have to check that out. That’s really great. Um, so then it seems like AI is, is going to be changing business for the better.

[00:22:05] Steve Fretzin: There are people that have concerns and for good reason, obviously we don’t want to get into that. The worst case scenario would have to go there, but we can go through, like, is it going to take jobs? Is it going to eliminate lawyers jobs? Is it going to eliminate doctors and nurses jobs? Like, I mean, if it’s able to take all the information that exists and give you an answer that’s more accurate than maybe most people, most experts, how do you see AI, you know, maybe possibly not hurting, but maybe changing the way Okay.

[00:22:36] Steve Fretzin: business is done or the way that the law is done. I

[00:22:40] Manuj Aggarwal: mean, you, you use very, very good words to explain the situation. I think, uh, uh, a lot of these industries are going to go through a transition period. So, uh, the value earlier used to be, obviously law is complicated and what we as clients pay is for you to understand and synthesize the law and explain it to us and apply the right law in the right situation.

[00:23:09] Manuj Aggarwal: Now with AI, a lot of that will become easier. So in my opinion, um, you know, simple things like writing up a contract and things of that nature that may start shifting to some savvy people like you. Who can figure things out and they say, Oh, you know, I, I can just do it on my own, but by and large, um, you know, people still need help and assistance.

[00:23:34] Manuj Aggarwal: So I give an analogy of, uh, you know, when, um, like about 20 years ago, we used to have to go to a travel agent to book air ticket. Right. Yeah. I miss those days. Yeah. There was no other way. Right. Um, and you had to like develop a relationship and they knew a lot about your preferences. So you just used to call them, Hey, you know, I’m flying here.

[00:23:57] Manuj Aggarwal: You know, just can you take care of the tickets? And they knew exactly what we will prefer. And they booked the right flight and all that. Right now we log on to Expedia and whatnot. But it doesn’t mean there was a fear that, oh, you know, travel agents, uh, industry is going to be just like wiped out. Right.

[00:24:14] Manuj Aggarwal: But that didn’t happen.

[00:24:15] Steve Fretzin: No, but it’s, but it’s definitely not what it used to be. I mean, I don’t, you know, I don’t know, unless you’re doing some kind of maybe very robust trip, like with lots of moving parts, doing things quickly, like a flight in a hotel, Airbnb, that’s all, that’s all online right now.

[00:24:30] Manuj Aggarwal: Yeah.

[00:24:30] Manuj Aggarwal: I know what I’m trying to say is that it didn’t shrink that much. Okay. Now the thing is people who made progress was, were the people who understood that we need to provide a service. Which is towards listening to the client’s requirements and then using the technology to help them get the things done a better way, like more personalized service is what humans will want.

[00:24:58] Steve Fretzin: So let me ask you this. I’m paying a subscription for everything, every streaming service. I’ve got no commercials on my YouTube. I’ve got, I think, you know, at some point I might do a subscription for chat. GBT to go to their, their, you know, advanced level. Do you think, and this is, this is just a personal question.

[00:25:16] Steve Fretzin: I want to get your take on, do you think that Google at some point might move to a different, more of a subscription based model versus what they have now, which is a free premium, they’re just going to use our data and use all this stuff. But I don’t know, do they have the ability to, to have an upsell like that?

[00:25:33] Manuj Aggarwal: Ability, of course, but, uh, data is the new oil. So why will they, you know, throw away a more precious commodity and, you know, opt for a, uh, a less precious commodity because they can use that data to multiply their income. And if they put, you know, even a single dollar subscription, the amount of data they will collect will drastically go down.

[00:25:56] Steve Fretzin: All right, here’s where I’m going with this, because I wasn’t, I wasn’t maybe clear. And again, I, I could, I could be, so you mentioned a travel agent. I want to go, I want to go to England, Paris, and Amsterdam. I want to fly first class. I want to eat at these restaurants. I want to stay at these kinds of hotels that have this, this, this, and this.

[00:26:12] Steve Fretzin: I want to plug that into Google and have it basically just do the trip for me. Oh, yeah, I’m thinking that there’s going to be some type of service that they’re going to offer. That’s an advanced service to, like, give you like, not only the results, but also, like. Handle it.

[00:26:28] Manuj Aggarwal: Absolutely. Okay. Okay. So that’s coming.

[00:26:31] Manuj Aggarwal: Yeah, that is coming. Um, maybe in, in the next year. Okay.

[00:26:35] Steve Fretzin: So that kind of AI where you could just plug in like everything you desire and can pay for hopefully. Right. And then, and then see where it goes. That’s really, yeah, I think that’s, that could be another, another way for them to make money. And if they have the AI that does it.

[00:26:48] Steve Fretzin: Um, they’re going to charge, you know, charge for that. A

[00:26:51] Manuj Aggarwal: lot of these things will be automated. But what I’m trying to say is that as things get more and more automated, the value of human connection and, uh, relationships will continue to go higher. So if you want to survive in this next wave of technology, focus on that, focus on building those relationships, those networks.

[00:27:13] Manuj Aggarwal: Well, that’s not going to be replaced and that’s not going anywhere.

[00:27:16] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Okay. Well, I think that’s really, really wise and then spot on in, in, uh, in your explanation. Any final words about AI and scaling and growth before we wrap up? Cause we’re going to get to our game changing podcast in a moment.

[00:27:30] Manuj Aggarwal: I mean, you know, scaling is the, um, in, in this case, uh, in legal professional technology is going to be the key.

[00:27:38] Manuj Aggarwal: Or scale and, uh, you know, try to embrace it because, uh, there’s massive opportunity. Um, AI is actually going to add about 10 trillion to the world economy by 2030. This is the biggest, like wealth generation opportunity for people who can embrace it.

[00:27:56] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Oh, really interesting. Thank you so much. Let’s go to the game changing podcast.

[00:28:00] Steve Fretzin: You’ve got one here that I haven’t heard of, but I’m going to check it out. It’s called the art of making things happen. And I think you mentioned that with Steve Sims, what is that podcast about?

[00:28:10] Manuj Aggarwal: So, you know, um, Steve Stimson, he’s one of my mentors and what he teaches is how to achieve stupid goals, what he calls stupid goals.

[00:28:18] Manuj Aggarwal: So he has, uh, he has basically sent people to the Titanic and, um, you know, got somebody married by the Pope and, um, uh, somebody wanted to, uh, um, have dinner and he arranged a, uh, dinner at the feet of David and in the, uh, in the famous Italian museum. So he, he, he does these kind of like, you know, out there.

[00:28:41] Manuj Aggarwal: Things and he teaches other people how to achieve these kind of goals and, um, uh, it’s, it’s a pretty, uh, pretty interesting, uh, podcast and a pretty

[00:28:50] Steve Fretzin: human being. Oh, very cool. Very cool. So listen, as we wrap up one, of course, thank our wonderful sponsors. And I’ve talked about Lawmatics in the show, uh, how I’m using it.

[00:28:59] Steve Fretzin: And, um, obviously you guys want to reach out to Lawmatics. I think they’re giving a discount. If you go to, uh, lawmatics. com, uh, slash be that lawyer, you’re going to get a discount on that. Um, get staffed up phenomenal. That’s, you know, everybody compliments me on my marketing and guess what? Um, I’ve got Sergio in Bogota, Columbia doing, doing my marketing for me and he’s crushing it every day.

[00:29:20] Steve Fretzin: And that’s all through, um, uh, you know, that outsourced service of, of, uh, get staffed up and of course we want to thank Green Cardigan Marketing with Ashley and her team, what an amazing group, uh, over there helping people with their strategy and phenomenal reporting. Giving them actionable tips to take.

[00:29:36] Steve Fretzin: So check all them out. And, um, uh, Maneuver, people want to get in touch with you. They want to hear more about you. They want to see you speak live, uh, at a tech conference. Uh, what are the best ways for them to, to Eric, you’ve got a podcast too, right?

[00:29:48] Manuj Aggarwal: That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. My podcast is called bootstrapping your dreams.

[00:29:51] Manuj Aggarwal: So again, it’s all about achieving big goals. And, um, I’ll, I’ll be actually in San Francisco. I mean, I don’t know this when this episode is going to be, but follow me on LinkedIn or Facebook, Instagram. I’ll be, I’m speaking like at various venues, um, all over North America for now. Uh, internationally soon and, um, uh, yeah, you can follow me on linkedin or just google my name.

[00:30:15] Manuj Aggarwal: I’m easy to get hold of online.

[00:30:17] Steve Fretzin: Nice. Now you’re based in Canada? Yeah. Where are you in Canada? Vancouver. Vancouver. Beautiful city. Absolutely beautiful city. Some of the best seafood I’ve ever had. Sushi in particular, by the way. Um, just marvelous. Um, Hey, uh, thank you so much for being on the show, sharing your wisdom.

[00:30:33] Steve Fretzin: I think, you know, people listening are really getting a good flavor for, you know, not only, you know, technology, but AI and everything that’s going on right now. And, and, uh, you know, you’re just, you’re just the tip of the spear of that space. So thank you for coming on the show and, and sharing your wisdom.

[00:30:48] Steve Fretzin: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you everybody for spending some time with Mnuchinai today. Um, another opportunity to be that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Take care, everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll talk again soon.

[00:31:04] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, Fretzin. com, for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.