Mark Bullock: Marketing with Exceptional Video Content

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mark Bullock discuss:

  • Addressing more than just the logistical and legal side of your client’s cases.
  • Why do lawyers hesitate to delve into social or video.
  • Secrets to making great video content.
  • Getting tons of content from one video.

Key Takeaways:

  • 99.99+% of people will not go on video. YouTube is not the 11 o’clock news, it is people authentically talking to people.
  • Have a conversation on camera as if you are speaking to a person, not speaking to an inanimate object.
  • Be willing to practice having a conversation, rather than presenting a topic.
  • You can’t buy the same type of work that a raving fan given exceptional client service can send your way through referral.

“Video is the place to be. Why? Because people can relate; people watching this right now can relate to the fact that you and I are having a conversation, and we’re including them in this conversation, and in doing so it’s far more engaging.” —  Mark Bullock

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Episode References: 

Book: Raving Fans: A Revolutionary Approach to Customer Service by Ken Blanchard:

Connect with Mark Bullock:  






Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.


Email: [email protected]

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.



MoneyPenny, Practice Panther, Narrator, Steve Fretzin, Mark Bullock



The other thing I want you to probably run into this but you know the definition, the difference between a client and a customer. Yeah, professional people like to think of them as clients, not customers. But I’m sure you have a much better response in that. According to Webster’s a customer is somebody you sell products or services to a client to someone or to your protection.


Narrator  [00:26]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer Coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:49]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I hope you are having a lovely day, here in Chicago right in the middle of winter, and most people are pretty miserable. But, you know, my mark, I mean, it’s, but listen, we find ways to be happy, whether that sports outside taking walks, just figuring out how to bundle up, I’ve been fishing with my son out and the DesPlaines river here in Chicago, which was crazy, but at least it was in the 40s. So we had that on. But, you know, when I think about the show, and I think about what we’re trying to accomplish, it really is about helping to give you all tips and ideas and ways of being more successful in your journey as a lawyer. And I tried to bring on guests that have different perspectives, different expertise, etc. And marks waiting in the wing. We’re gonna learn all about Mark in just a short moment here. But it is about being that lawyer, someone who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker, so I appreciate you listening to the show, if you’re enjoying it, please don’t be shy about giving us a kind review or a five star review or whatever it is that you got on your phone or your computer and tell people about it, we’re looking to expand, check out our live events to be that lawyer lives that we have in the past and that we have coming up. Also some great panels of experts talking about marketing and business development, and we’ve got technology coming up and all kinds of cool stuff. Mark Bullock, you are the co founder of practice marketing, Inc. And you were so kind to give me a quote of the show. Let’s start with that. And then and then you can say, get your role in here. And And the quote is, I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. And that’s my Angelou. Absolutely. I destroy that name.



I think I think you got it right. On it. Okay. All right. Well, two time’s a charm, one of several quotes from her that I really enjoy. And yeah, I live in the world market. And I live in a world of authentic word of mouth marketing, not what traditionally, we would look at as far as advertising, things like that. But you know, we’ve been in the business of helping our clients create content, whether that did go out through newsletters that whether that means or social media, or the websites, whatever the case may be for close to 15 years now. And, you know, I’ve got some rules around that. And the number one rule is, is if it’s not authentic, don’t bother. And number two is a question that I often asked many of our members of video socials, which is one of our services, is, you know, how many people you know, Raise it, raise your hands, how many people want to see an infomercial in their newsfeed for for whatever social media channel that they’re following? Well, you know, the answer, of course, is nobody. So you know, make sure that your content that you’re creating whatever it is, whether it be text, audio, video, images, slideshows, whatever it is, is something that’s informational. Its educational, that it benefits or makes a difference for those that you serve, and the ones that you’re giving that content to? by So,


Steve Fretzin  [03:49]

but I think that leads into or leans into that, yeah, the, that quote of the show, which is, how are you making people feel, you know, they’re not gonna remember your infomercial, but if you made them feel something in watching your video, and what you the message you conveyed, or the way that you did it? You know, that’s what you know, advertising is all about when I think about, you know, Coca Cola, or McDonald’s or Nike or any of the brands, when it they’re always looking to, like, not only be authentic in their messaging, but also how are you attached to the brand, how are you feeling about the brand? And I think that’s what the quote and what you’re conveying and what you’re saying,



well, people want to connect, right? They want to feel like whomever they’re going to get advice from, that they’re going to get information from, gets them, you know, understands their plight understands the kind of problems that they’re dealing with, right. And so, that’s, you know, as a presenter or somebody who’s creating content, the sooner you can set aside your judgments and you can set aside your, our natural tendency to, you know, we’re better than you or I’m smarter than you or whatever the case may be and realize that, no, I’m an athlete. human being, I have the same fears, I have the same BS that I’m dealing with, et cetera. And, you know, you’re not alone in what you’re doing. And for that reason, I often say, Look, you know, if you’re going to do video as an example, make sure that you’re having a conversation with a human being. Not that you’re talking to them, this inanimate object called the camera, because that inanimate object isn’t giving you any feedback isn’t giving you isn’t, you’re just throwing information out there versus having a conversation with somebody whether they be there or not, or whether you can visualize that that individual is somebody that’s going to be watching that video later, reading that article later, listening to that podcast later, as an example, that it’s these are human beings, right? So it’s not just business, it is personal. And if you get that, then they will feel that you’ve got them, they will feel that you understand them. And they will feel that. You know, the other thing, I don’t probably run into this, but you know, the definition, the difference between a client and a customer? Yeah, professional people like to think of them as clients, not customers. But I’m sure you have a much better response in that. According to Webster’s a customer is somebody you sell products or services to a client to someone or to your protection. Ah, well, I


Steve Fretzin  [06:20]

like that. Okay, I like that. Yeah.



So if you can convey that you’re there to protect them. And that is your goal. That is your intent. And that’s what you’re always going to be looking you’re not, who doesn’t want to be protected. I like


Steve Fretzin  [06:38]

better, but you mentioned somebody wants to be sold a product or service. Yeah, that goes without saying, I mean, that’s the whole the Saturn and in people that are under 40 don’t even know what Saturn is. It was a car company that was like a one price thing. And they was like nobody wants to be sold to so why not go to a dealer where you don’t have to haggle. I mean, who wouldn’t want that, of course, they ripped you off on your trading, but that’s a different story. They don’t make Saturns anymore. But you know, what I what I say to my clients, and what I kind of understand, like, it’s like food, water shelter. And then like, right after that, it’s understanding like as far as like human needs. And when you think about like someone on a bridge about to sort of ended not to go to a down a dark path, but probably they don’t feel understood. They don’t feel listened to they don’t feel like there’s someone that gets them, right. So I think you’re conveying such an important message of how we, you know, in marketing, in particular and video, how we convey that understanding and how we convey, you know, hey, I get you.



Absolutely, I think, you know, this, it’s the basis of our connection to each other as human beings, right? How are you going to, we don’t feel affinity for nevermind, trust for somebody that’s just throwing stuff at us. And or is is completely from our perspective, ignoring our needs, our wants, our emotions, our desires, our fears, etc. So, you know, you work. As far as I can tell exclusively with attorneys. The fact that matter is, is that attorneys are in the prime position to be in the most trusted industry that there is, and where people need to be able to trust. And that means that you have to address the emotional side, frankly, even the spiritual side, not just the logistical. This is the law, this is has its power, this is how we handle the law. Because otherwise, your clients are going to end up shooting themselves in the foot because they’re going to be reacting emotionally and you’re going to be trying to counter that rather than getting them to the point that they can see that the damage they can do to themselves by reacting emotionally robbed rather that rather than Okay, go ahead express to me what you what you’re feeling about this, so that we can have that out of the way and move forward and find out. What are you going to feel if we can resolve this? Yeah. You know, Mark,


Steve Fretzin  [09:01]

I can imagine people listening right now are thinking to themselves, Steve has an incredibly thoughtful person, intelligent, thoughtful person on the show, and we’re not sure exactly what direction we’re gonna go with this. But I’d like to take a step back before we take a step forward. And can you just share a little bit of your background and how you came to be and I think, give some, you know, lay out that groundwork and then we’re going to take it into full steam ahead on how we can help these pesky attorneys get ahead in the world of marketing.



So, without getting too deep into it, I’m a recovering serial entrepreneur. I took the military route rather than the Advanced Education route, and that often say that I’ve learned from the school of hard knocks, as it were, but I’ve had people with advanced degrees as client for less than 30 something years. As a matter of fact, virtually every client that I work with now has advanced degrees, PhDs JDS, MDS, et cetera, and, and they come to me for advice. And so how does that work well is because I’ve done so many different things and wherever they are at, I’ve probably been in there. And like many people in the world, I’ve had to restart my career a couple of times now. And at the pinnacle after earning several companies living everywhere, from Hawaii to New York, I have a strong mechanical background, and then moving into, well, gee, I want to start my own business. But I’m afraid to stand up in front of an audience and introduce myself. So I joined Toastmasters 35 years ago, and then a year and a half later, I was the president of that club, and we launched two or three others. And so getting over that fear of public speaking, getting over that fear of being judged, et cetera, and just learning to be myself in front of others and have real conversations with people app was something that I started to learn early on. Fast forward to. Along those lines, I had two different tech companies, the first one I sold the second one, I bankrupted. And that bankruptcy was, was based off, you know, not having appropriate contracts in play for dealing with I was a, I had gone for being a big fish in a small pond, I had, why you doing computer consulting, and network engineering, stuff like that, to being, you know, an outsourced technical architect for some very large financial institutions that are named. And I got contractually raked over the coals and lost everything. So when that happened, I said, Okay, look, I’ve been on this treadmill of learning, and staying up with and getting up to speed, one, highly advanced technical information, etc. And what I enjoyed most was the interaction with the rest of the teams, the rest of the people that I was working with, utilizing technology to solve problems at cetera, et cetera. But I just didn’t want to stay in technological field. Just like if I, if I’m going to work this hard, I’m going to I’m going to train this much, I’m going to help this many people. What is it that I want to be when I grow up, it was around 40 years. So when I did that, 4045. And I just said that as to Well, I want to make a difference. And that refined later to I make a difference for those who make a difference in the world. And I choose to do that through a variety of communicate means that communication, and practice marketing was something that was started by my partner. And we started out as marketing advisors, for attorneys, CPAs, financial advisors, etc. And then that quickly grew into the realization that we couldn’t get any of them to create content, they wouldn’t spend so much of their time energy and focus on perfectionism of writing or trying to do podcasts, later on doing videos, et cetera, et cetera, we developed means and systems by which to have that become a habit, and have it become easy and not time consuming, and something that can be incredibly efficient. And all of our services are based around that. And my life’s work has culminated in something we call video socials, not that we’re promoting anything on your show, specifically, but it was the concept of something that we talked about early on, and that was, don’t go it alone. If you’re trying to create video, don’t talk to this inanimate object, talk to an audience talk to other people on screen talk to others that are you can have a real conversation with. And so


Steve Fretzin  [13:24]

envision video has changed so much. I mean, if you think about like, when I think back to when I was doing video in, let’s say, the mid 2000s, like 2005 to 2010. And I was doing like, you know, two camera three camera shoots, I was doing lighting, I was paying out the nose for you know, professionally done videos that never got seen by anybody, you know, just a total novice at the whole thing. And now we look at every single thing that’s going on right now with the ability to do video at a pretty high level without all that and even making them seem more authentic, because of the lack of necessarily professionalism, and in the three camera shoot and all that. So if content is in video, in particular has never been easier to do then now, why are lawyers so hesitant to produce content produce video, put it up on social? What do you think is what are you seeing as one of their major hesitancy?



I’m going to preempt it by saying that I did a recent look at statistics and something like 1/3 of 1/3 of 1/3 of 1% of the world’s population has a YouTube channel seems like a lot more than that that literally in the 1999 99.999% of people will not go on will not be on it. They just were there. They don’t want to put they don’t want to put themselves out there speaking they don’t want to put themselves out there. They don’t want to do that, though. So the short answer to that question and lawyers I think take it actually to the next level, because they think that everything that they say or do has got to be perfect. They’ve got to look perfect. They’ve got their backgrounds got to be perfect. Everything’s got to be perfect. Yeah. Look at YouTube, what’s there, it’s not the 11 o’clock news. It’s now it’s not people reading to you on screen to retell a teleprompter. It’s people having conversations is people having real talks with real people about real problems, and real solutions. And in doing so, again, that word authentic. And so if you can get past that, if you can actually do it. And I’m gonna kind of fast forward to what I think you’re going to look at next, which is, you know, how do they overcome that? Well, join with others that are doing the same thing. And get together, we have a service for that. But even if you if you do it on your own, get a couple of friends together, get some accountability partner so that you carve out time to actually do it, and be willing to practice. Look, you have a legal practice, it’s called a practice for a reason. It’s a path to mastery. It’s not called legal perfection. Exactly. So video is no different. And you already touched on it, and often say, for many, many, many of our members, and I’ve seen 1000s, and 1000s, and 1000s of these things created these talking head, talking head videos that they’re being done. And I say the same thing to everybody. And that is this, that the little bubbles in your voice, the getting stuck in a sentence and having to restart the time to look away that camera for a second to think et cetera. These are things that we do when we’re sitting across the desk having a conversation with another human being. Right. So if you can have that same conversation on the camera, then the person on the other side of that, that next week, next month, next year, next decade, that is going that are going to see that is going to feel them back to Maya Angelou, they’re going to feel that connection, they’re going to feel that you get and understand that can only happen if it is a conversation. And it’s not a I’m producing an add on video. As you said, we’ve done that too. And you know, yes, 1000s and 1000s of offers. It’s you know, to get stuff that nobody’s nobody’s gonna watch because nobody wants to watch an infomercial.


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Steve Fretzin  [18:54]

Let me ask you something this might be a little off topic because it could be leveraging your background with Toastmasters and with video but there’s two different kinds of speakers. There’s a kind like me, where I get up in front of a group I know my subject in and out, but there’s going to be arms and eyes there’s going to be some some hiccups in it’s never going to come out as fluidly. As someone who’s rehearsed it 1000 times improved it taken out every word that is not unnecessary. What are you seeing as a relates to videos with either someone that’s being you know, just less thoughtful and a little more maybe authentic or someone that’s well rehearsed? And as more thoroughly prepared for his presentation or video? Anything better worse about either?



I’m going to say that the person who’s looking at it from the, shall we say the shoot from the hip style. Okay, so, I’ve done 600 Something videos myself, 99% of them are completely extemporaneous. Okay, in other words, I didn’t even in many cases, I didn’t know what I was going to say until the until the record like


Steve Fretzin  [19:57]

no teleprompter. No. Now we’re saying here again. You is coming off. And when we value your back that you’ll experience your knowledge.



And, and I’ve seen people who are trained digital journalists that know how to read from a teleprompter know how to rehearse, know how to practice, etc, and know the content so well, that they actually don’t even need it right. So it basically comes down to this willingness to practice. Something that as you were asking the question that came to me that I don’t know why I had forgotten before now, but most attorneys get no practice knowledge training experience about marketing, or communications, or having a conversation in front of an audience, except for being prepared to go to court and stand in front of a judge or stand in front of a jury. You are not in court, when you’re creating a video for marketing purposes. The people that you’re trying to convince, stop trying to convince them start trying to help.


Steve Fretzin  [20:57]

Well, many of them have experience in making a presentation, they’ve been asked to do a presentation for the local bar association or something. So they have had experience getting up in front of a group most to attorneys, I would say, unless they’re just hiding under their desks, or out which happens. But I guess Yeah, I was just trying to figure out like is is is you don’t need to be polished up like a diamond to do video or to do a presentation as long as you know, your subject and you can connect with the audience. Again, that emotional connection, I think is what you’re really triggering



is exactly that. Exactly. Because people are one they’re going to forget, they’re going to forgive me if you’ve had the opportunity to be in front of an audience. I mean, I am most comfortable in front of an audience. We first started doing video I was I was just as terrified as anybody even though I had a lot of experience being with audience, the reason that I was so comfortable in front of an audience and because I always encouraged audience participation. I always want to know what other people are. Where are they thinking? How is it landing for them? Is what I’m saying making a difference? Or is what I’m saying, you know, having them glaze glaze over right now. Yeah. So having them and having them engaged. And so on video, we have to imagine that, right? So often, people talk about, well, what topics Am I going am I going to talk about? Well, what questions do your clients asked you? What questions do your prospects ask you? That’s the best place to start? Just to answer the question. Right? Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [22:24]

I mean, probably the best videos I ever did on my YouTube channel, man, I think I’ve got maybe over 300, I was, I was sitting down with a client, we had a couple cameras, this was again, a professional shoot that before we figured out, we could do our phones or resume, when it’s still a good thing to do that I’m not, you know, crapping on that idea, but to your point, exactly, Mark, I was sitting down with my client, and I would say, you know, Hey, John, you know, when you think about, you know, networking, what’s your biggest challenge? And he’d say, you know, it’s how do I walk into a room full of people and deal with, you know, like, Olara, 100 people in a room or with cocktails in their hands? Like, how do I work in event like that, then I would respond to that by giving my suggestions and thoughts. And it was a conversation that was then being videotaped, and it couldn’t have come out better, no one’s seeing them because they’re buried on my YouTube channel, I got to figure out what to do with them better, but, but the idea was that that’s the best way for me to do a video. It’s not talking into the camera, by myself, I do that quite often, because I’ve become adjusted to it. But yeah, I mean, it’s you and I having this conversation and taping it, and then being able to edit that and put that out as an interactive video. Like, that’s so much better and more watchable to your point. So I think I think we just have to do we have to consider what topics people want to hear where your expertise can be shared without saying you’re an expert or without, you know, pushing it on somebody, it’s more educational, but it needs to come out in a way that people can say that’s the person that’s the lawyer I want to talk to.



Absolutely. And another way that you might look at that is, is that you’re not just presenting something, you’re providing half of a conversation. Yeah. What’s the other half of the conversation? Right? What are the follow up questions as you start to answer if you’re having a conversation, there’s follow up questions. There’s, you know, there’s feedback, there’s engagement, right? So once she’s at Fox, once you’ve went if you’re willing to practice. See, that’s the other thing. I think a lot of people would, by the time they get the JD, they don’t the practices behind you know, you’re gonna be practicing the rest of your life, especially if you’re creating marketing content. Right. So it is practice, um, you know, years and years and years in professional speaking years and years and years now and into creating videos. And every single time it’s a practice. So be willing to practice having a conversation rather than presenting a topic. Okay,


Steve Fretzin  [24:49]

so there’s a lawyer listening says, All right, I need to get more involved in social media. I need to get more involved in putting out content and video might take less time or be easier than writing a ton of articles, which is very time consuming. And again, the perfectionist steps in and it’s just never gonna get done. And meanwhile, they can get a one minute video clip done in maybe 10 minutes if they’re, you know, if they’re prepared. So what are a couple of tips for lawyers who want to get started in video, but, but just can’t get the gumption to do it or don’t kind of know what direction to go?



I think number one is, find, again, we have a service for this, but you know, find some buddies that are willing to do that. They want to do the same thing. And get together and do zoom conferences like this and practice. You know, video, socials dotnet, is what we created so that you don’t have to find people who will actually put them together for you. And and that’s exactly what we do. But do it with others get and be willing to practice, every taked is not necessarily going to be you know, the one that gets that gets posted. So one is willingness to practice app. Number two is is that just the hardcore realization that all the video that you see on social media, and remember back to only a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of 1% of the content that actually created is video? Why is it so prevalent on social media? Because the social media engines know that it’s more engaging, and so they’re pushing it? Right. So for every 100, you know, written articles that are out there, they’re going to put 10 videos up and is placed in the various social media feeds. Video is the place to be why because people can relate people watching this right now can relate to the fact that you are and I are having a conversation, and we’re including them in this conversation. And in doing so it’s far more engaging. And I think that I might have preempted another question, I think may have


Steve Fretzin  [26:56]

had quit stealing my brain. Bark, you know, it only got one



this list. Literally look, you know, we we have another service, which is the evaluator podcast service switches, you know, for exactly that reason, because two professionals getting together talking about a topic having that give and take going back and forth. People can imagine being in the room and had in being part of that conversation, or 100%, other than just the talking head, it’s actually harder to be a talking head than it is for you and I to have a conversation that at least it is


Steve Fretzin  [27:30]

two things I want to just reiterate number one is the greatest idea would be for an attorney who needs to do video and wants to do video but can’t get motivated. If for no other option to just knock. You talk to a friend that’s a lawyer and say, Hey, why don’t you ask me five questions, I’ll ask you five questions, we’ll record them. We now have 10 videos, five for each of us. Let’s do that once a month. It’s that simple in zoom has really solved a lot of the issues with how to produce video. I mean, we’re doing I’m producing hundreds of hours of video, you know, a year at least based on the podcast, my classes and the other things I’m doing. The other thing that I would say is that, you know the podcast, you can take the audio because I think a lot of lawyers like audio because they can be in the car, walk the dog sit in their office, they don’t have to focus on a video. However, we repurpose, repurpose, repurpose, repurpose. So the fact is, is that you and I are doing a podcast, this is going to be on air, right people listening right now. And guess what, you can go on social media or go to my YouTube channel, and you’re gonna hear some highlight clips and see some highlight clips of me and Mark having this conversation. But in an abbreviated form, I’m not putting the whole thing up, although I could. Right. So it’s, it’s a great opportunity to get not only a video, but then you can repurpose that for articles, you can repurpose that for a presentation, you can repurpose that for social media. You’re getting a lot out of it.



You’re you’re getting a ton you’re getting a ton out of it, and not the least of which is you know, I, as you know, I do a podcast because you were on it. Yeah, he’s a video interview podcasts. So you know, it’s, you know, it’s a 30 minute show or whatever. And yet I am publishing the entire thing on YouTube. Yep. And that was my 34th or 35th one or something like that. You’ve got way more in the back then than then I do a lot more experienced with the interview style than I do. And I appreciate that, but exactly what you say because now we’re extracting the audio from that. And that’s going out. And that’s going out to all the various podcast platforms. It’s going on our websites, it’s going you know it’s going on is your social media feeds in all of these different formats. So you create one piece of content, a simple interview on video, and you’ve got dozens of other pieces of content that you could go out to all different types of channels, all from all from the same session. have, you know this same work of creating that one piece of content?


Steve Fretzin  [30:04]

Well, Mark, thank you so much I mean, full of, of knowledge and expertise and sharing your wisdom with, with, you know, my audience and let’s move on to Game Changing books. And yours is one that I’ve seen, I think I read it, but it must have been years and years ago called raving fans, a revolutionary approach to customer service client service, not customer service clients. All right, anyway, going back to the beginning with that comment, but Right, they don’t know the difference between customers and clients for crying out loud. But talk about that, why that book is sort of like your favorite, you no book on like self help business book,



I would say because it’s the recognition that great and exceptional client service is your best marketing tool. And that is because when you not just Dazzle, somebody are really going to blow their socks off. Okay, all that’s fine. But when you make a difference for somebody, when they feel like back to what you open the show with, when they feel like, man, you have really helped me, You really saved me, you really, you took me to the next level, whatever it is that your practice is about. And they get that you get them, you walk them through, you protected them in that process, you kept them from going off the rails, etc. They’re going to tell everybody that they know, anytime that somebody comes up with a similar problem, they’re going to say, you’ve got to talk to Steve, you got to talk. Yeah, and because, you know, they made all the difference in the world for me. That kind of endorsement, that kind of word of mouth marketing you can’t buy. Right. So and that is essential. And for me, the book raving fans kind of boiled and boiled it down in using a parable, they it’s called, it was interesting, it was entertaining. But it really came back to look at the consistency of customer service client service. And, and always looking at it from a perspective of how can I best serve the client. And if your attitude and the content that you’re creating around that is also from that same place of being of service? Because we are a service and we’re in service industries, right. And all attorneys are in service. It’s a service industry, right? What is service is helping others it is being of service to others. So if we’re coming from that standpoint, you know, at no way I mean,


Steve Fretzin  [32:33]

there’s no it’s, it’s hard to lose, if you’re good at what you do. And you take really good care of people, and they can tell that you care about them, they can tell that you you’re putting them first and putting them in front of you without killing yourself, right? I mean, you got to take care of yourself to words of No, you know, we’re just going to get around, you know, you’re not going to be unsuccessful doing that and having that type of mentality. So I think that’s a really great kind of way to wrap things up. Mark, if people want to get in touch with you, they want to hear more about video socials, they want to hear more about you know, what’s the other be of the socials? And then there’s one other right?



Well, there’s there’s three websites they can get to, okay, they’re not ready for video yet, or they’re not looking at audio yet. And they still want to write articles. Well, that’s phone blogger dotnet, we call them interview them, and transcribe that professionally edited it and get it out there for them. I said, that’s on Video, socials, we’d love to have any of your audience members come as a guest, there’s no cost, there’s no obligation, come check it out this video social dotnet just click on the guests tab at the top of the screen. And the last one is video interview And that is basically all of the support structure and the engineering because you know, this is a lot of work to do what you’re doing. We do all that for you. And you just show up and interview and interview your guests. And that’s again, that’s video interview


Steve Fretzin  [33:52]

And we’ll put all that in the show notes really terrific. So just wrapping up, I want to thank our sponsors, we’ve got legalese practice Panther and money, Penny all helping lawyers to be more successful and in automated in how they run their businesses and take things off their plate that they shouldn’t be doing. And, Mark, I just want to thank you again for being on the show and sharing your wisdom. And I just think, you know what you’re doing is noble and what you’re doing is important and people need to really understand, you know, things are changing and being authentic and being out there is more critical than ever, especially if you’re in a competitive environment. You can’t just sit back and say, well, that’s not for me. Okay, well, the people that it’s for if they’re going to be getting ahead of you and the



business people are going to connect with who are going to utilize are going to employ are going to engage with those that they are familiar with know like and trust but most importantly feel that they that you get them and and Steve, I just wanted to acknowledge you I think you’ve got a fantastic show. I think you’ve got you’ve put together a terrific program. You have great guests, and I really appreciate you having me on the show and a half And it was wonderful having you


Steve Fretzin  [35:01]

on Yeah, we did a good show swap, which is likely it’s like Wife Swap but but not as controversial.



What was it all good all around, right, you know, just being completely transparent yet. We’re doing this for marketing but we’re both trying to give information that can help people get to the next level.


Steve Fretzin  [35:19]

Yeah, you’re right on the money. So thanks Mark. I appreciate the kind words and your time and your expertise and thank you everyone that’s listening right now to Mark and I and enjoying the show and hopefully getting some good takeaways. And, you know, this isn’t just another opportunity. You know, we’re covering a lot of ground you know, whether it’s health and wellness video, websites, you know, Business Development Network, and really trying to run the gamut of all the different elements that help you to be successful as a lawyer. And as you guys know, it’s all about being that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. Take care everybody, be safe, be well, and we will talk again soon appreciate it.


Narrator  [36:00]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes