In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Matthew Fornaro discuss:
- Making solo practice more accessible than ever
- Using AI as a force multiplier for small firms
- Practicing ethical and intentional AI adoption
- Rethinking legal business models and skill sets
Key Takeaways:
- Starting a firm no longer requires a large office, full staff, or major upfront investment. A focused LinkedIn presence paired with a simple, low-cost website can be sufficient early on.
- Matthew relies on AI for email triage, document review, and marketing support across his practice. These tools increasingly replace costly vendors while delivering speed, consistency, and scale.
- Responsible lawyers review and verify AI outputs instead of submitting them unchecked. Those who ignore AI entirely or misuse it are falling behind or facing real professional consequences.
- AI-driven efficiency puts pressure on traditional billable-hour structures in Big Law and beyond. Matthew emphasizes that business education is as critical as legal skills for long-term success.
“In dealing with some of the attorneys I deal with who don’t use AI or whatever, they’re getting consistently outworked and beat by people who do use AI, particularly people who use AI correctly and responsibly.” — Matthew Fornaro
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About Matthew Fornaro: Matthew Fornaro is a business law attorney serving South Florida since 2003. He began his career at two AmLaw 200 firms, focusing on civil litigation, before founding his own practice.
His work includes complex commercial litigation, contract disputes, construction law, intellectual property, and business formation and documentation. A member of the Florida and District of Columbia Bars, Matthew also mentors new attorneys and entrepreneurs through the Kaufman Foundation’s FastTrac NewVenture Program and Florida State University’s Jim Moran Institute.
As a small business owner himself, he is proud to support and represent businesses throughout his community.
Connect with Matthew Fornaro:
Website: https://fornarolegal.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fornarolegal/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewfornaro/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZn4sEROz6hErV5Fb5vvOtQ
X: https://twitter.com/FornaroLegal
Additional Resources: Jeremy Baker – https://operationpalmtree.com/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Matthew Fornaro [00:00]
They’re getting consistently outworked and beat by people who do use AI, particularly people who use AI correctly and responsibly and assume control over the AI and verify the work product.
Narrator [00:18]
You’re listening to be that lawyer life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:41]
Hey everybody. Steve Fretzin here, and welcome to the be that lawyer podcast. Just so thrilled that you’re with us today. If you’re more of a visual person, check us out on YouTube. You could just go to Steve fretson, and you will find all of our videos. I think we’re over 1000 videos on YouTube. And then obviously, if you’re interested in books, we’ve got five up on Amazon, and all kinds of stuff writing for above the law every single month. So you know, no shortage of ways to find me in the content that I’m creating. And as you guys all know, I love to bring on interesting people and try to get as much good content to you on the show as possible. I’ve got Matthew waiting in the wings. How’s it going? My friend, good. Steve, Happy New Year. Thanks for having me. Yeah, yeah. First kind of, first show of the new year. So pretty, pretty excited about it, and you just got back from a cruise. Like, how do you recover from a cruise, right? You’re supposed to get away and, like, relax, but then you’re on this cruise where, you know you’re stressing out about the work you have to deal with when you come back, right?
Matthew Fornaro [01:32]
Yeah, you know the email and the calls don’t stop when you’re in the Caribbean. So I had a whole bunch of inbox stuff and everything I had to do last Sunday that I started to dig myself out from.
Steve Fretzin [01:45]
So, yeah, pretty, pretty standard lawyer stuff. I think it’s important, though, like to figure out, like, ways of being efficient with how you, like, delegate work down, or delegate emails down, or find ways of audit, like I’m trying to work out right now, like, how to automate Gemini for my gmail so that I can get basically all of my responses, because I’ve got 80% of my responses to emails are the same, right? I mean, I’m not, I’m saying for me, not for everybody, but there are ones where you just like, all right, the next step is, or, you know, thanks for reaching out. Here’s what we’re going to do. And it’s like, How many times am I going to rewrite so I’ve got drafts, but I just think it’s just sometimes easier to I’m looking for some AI. Love is what I’m looking for here. Yeah, use any of that stuff.
Matthew Fornaro [02:29]
Yeah? I mean, I’m way, way, way into AI, so except I’m into the ethical and controlled use of AI. Unlike some of these other stories you see when attorneys get reprimanded and stuff. That’s because they just take the AI and hand it to the judge or send it out without checking it like they should, or whatever. But it’s interesting for what you’re talking about. I can tell you right now, there’s two different AI systems that deal with email intake and responses that I use.
Steve Fretzin [03:00]
Well, lay them out. Man, I may be a guinea pig here too.
Matthew Fornaro [03:03]
Sure. So for responding to emails, like, with, like, you know, like, how you said, like, about 80% of your stuff is pretty much standard, or whatever. Yeah, West laws co counsel has a plugin will, like, AI review and come up with responses to your emails. And the same thing with Cleo will do the same thing too.
Steve Fretzin [03:24]
Okay, that’s not going to help me, because I’m not involved in either of those, but I think Gemini, I’ve already used Gemini for Gmail, where you put in a response and it will improve it. Now the next step is, how do I’m going to get it so that it sort of like, like, starts to know the responses and figure out, like, as I get in these emails, oh, this is very much like a dozen others. And this is the typical response that you should give, knowing my past response, like, I’m Is that what this does for in West Law and Cleo?
Matthew Fornaro [03:53]
Yeah, it does the same thing. Like, it’s kind of predictive, where it’s like, here’s probably what you want to say, or whatever.
Steve Fretzin [04:01]
Here’s the thing, though, Matthew like, even if it takes 30 minutes a day off your plate having that done, if you start doing the math, right, then that’s if you’re working six days a week, that’s three hours a week, all right? 12 hours a month? Well, you got 12 hours a month. You could be doing other things then, constructing and crafting emails that are all generally pretty similar. So that’s just one, one little thing, right? I mean, you’re using it for the back end stuff too, right? For actual work product. So, man, it’s making a big, big difference. But I think we’re going to come back to that. Let’s jump back, and then we’ll come forward to our quote of the show. A big business starts small. That’s a Richard Branson quote. And welcome to the show. First of all, I kind of, we kind of write into it right off the bat. But welcome and give us a little insight on that quote and why that’s the quote of the show for today.
Matthew Fornaro [04:48]
Sure. You know Richard Branson is a interesting dude. He’s a non traditional business pioneer. So I think that quote is good because I. Really focus on helping small businesses, entrepreneurs and startups with their legal issues, and I help them throughout the course of their life, where sometimes they become medium or large size businesses or whatever. And you got to remember that every business starts small. All the meme of all the pictures of the garages were like Disney and Google and Amazon and all that stuff started in apple. It’s true. I mean, it started off there. Now, you know, they got a trillion dollar market cap.
Steve Fretzin [05:29]
Think the takeaway is, if you have a garage, you can do anything.
Matthew Fornaro [05:33]
Yeah, apparently I should be operating out of my garage.
Steve Fretzin [05:37]
That’s it. Let’s move our offices from these cushy, you know, spaces in our homes or whatever, to garages, then, then we just know it’s going to work. Probably not. But Matthew Fornaro, everybody is attorneys. Got his own gig. Matthew Fornaro, pa, you’re also famous because you’re distantly related to Phil fornaro, who’s a huge friend of mine and been on the show. We won’t get into that, but shout out to Phil, if he’s listening. You’ve got to you. Got another four narrow here.
Matthew Fornaro [06:02]
No shout out to Phil too. We have to collaborate on something nice.
Steve Fretzin [06:06]
Yeah, get on his podcast. I think that would be fun. It’s called light bulb moments, and he would have you on, and you guys could just talk about your last name for 30 minutes, but genetics, but give us a little background on yourself and how you came to be and moving into into like a solo practice.
Matthew Fornaro [06:22]
Sure. So I started it out. Always kind of wanted to be an attorney, like watching, like the People’s Court and stuff like that, not really legal dramas or anything like that, but the more realistic stuff. So I went to college. I was a political science major, which means I can either work in Washington, DC or be an attorney. So I went to law school. I wanted to initially, before I went to law school, I was waiting to international law and admiralty law, or at least that’s what I thought. And then I came out of law school, and I was like, I’m not doing that. So I started at a couple small practices in South Florida, and then I moved to 2am law 200 practices, and focused on like, complex commercial litigation, representing like banks and large companies. And then 11 years ago, used to be 10. Now it’s 11 because it’s 2026, I decided I had the opportunity to go work for one of the 10 largest law firms in the law or in the United States, and or I could do something different. So I figured that was probably the last chance in my life to go out on my own and start my own business. Otherwise I’d be like married to being like a big firm dude for the rest of my life. So I went out 11 years ago now, and I started my law firm, and I wanted to focus on bringing my knowledge and my talents out to, you know, small, medium sized businesses, entrepreneurs and startups who I think were underserved by for lack of a better term, competent attorneys who focus on that area because they’re too small for big law and your kind of local jack of all trades attorney kind of, doesn’t, you know, focus on that area. So that was my focus. That’s my area. And year 11 now, so.
Steve Fretzin [08:11]
Man, that’s wonderful. And I know it’s there’s a lot of lawyers that are at big law and mid market law and maybe even a small law firm who dream of going out on their own, but, but they’re just terrified about it, because it’s just so new and scary and entrepreneurship and all that. What was your mindset when you had to make that big decision about going out on your own? Did you like, take a piece of paper and do like, a pros and cons? Or, like, Well, how did you like, ferret through and work through that big decision? Because ultimately, it changed the course of your life.
Matthew Fornaro [08:42]
Yeah, you know, it was kind of like, speak with my wife, pull out a piece of paper, and go over pros and cons to is like, more of like a metaphysical kind of thing, where it’s like, I was in this big law firm, I reached a plateau. Then I’m like, Oh, let me go to a different big law firm reach my plateau, and then, I’ve ever seen you go to a bigger law firm, and I’m like, Well, gee, am I going to reach my plateau? And, you know, have to deal with things like, you know, if you want to stay you have to do, like, an equity buy in and all the crazy stuff that they have with, like, all the stuff where, basically, like, you’re married to it for, I don’t want to say the rest of your life, but it’s like you have to buy yourself out to leave your firm. So, you know, I was, it was my last opportunity. My kids were pretty young. Then I didn’t have to worry about a lot of stuff. I mean, I bought a new house a few months earlier, so that was not financially great, but it was just, you know, now or never. So, I mean, I tried to put together the best plan I could and started my firm. And you know, it goes, I guess maybe we’ll get into this about my total lack of any business education or business knowledge of how to run a business that I had to learn in the last. 11 years, but that’s the biggest learning curve. And biggest scariest thing was, you know, there’s a big difference between every two weeks when I get a paycheck that shows up in my bank account, versus if I don’t work and collect money I don’t live, right, right?
Steve Fretzin [10:17]
And were you able to at least bring some business with you? So it wasn’t totally scary. You had to, like, a few clients that came with you, or some work you could do.
Matthew Fornaro [10:24]
Yeah, no, I brought some clients with me. Okay, okay, you know, most of my clients were like, you know, I’m not bringing, like, PNC Bank with me, or Geico. So, right, right, right. Stay input. So, but the smaller ones that were my clients, yeah, I was able to bring with them, okay.
Steve Fretzin [10:40]
And then what were some of the challenges that you faced? I mean, even your first six months of being on your own, things that looking back on it, you you wish you had more of an education, or that you wish you had thought of ahead of making the move.
Matthew Fornaro [10:54]
Yeah, just like, what do you do with a business? Like, how do you set up? How do you set up a business? Like, just, not just a law firm, but any business. Yeah, the nuts and bolts that go into setting up a business properly and executing on it, and then there’s the whole other issue of, how do you properly set up and execute a law firm? So it was kind of like a two track thing of bunch of on the job training and sorting through a lot of information, a lot of, you know, snake oil salesman and various other things.
Steve Fretzin [11:29]
Yeah, there’s a lot of people kind of coming at you, right, trying to sell you stuff, websites, insurance and everything, right? And so it’s like, how do you weed through all those? Mean, I think the nice thing is, too, like, I do this. I’ve got, you know, for example, Jeremy Baker operation palm trees, a friend of mine here locally in Chicago. And you know, people that are going out on their own, like, there’s a lot I can help them with, but it’s really nice when I can refer them to Jeremy, because he’ll he, he’ll take 30 minutes and talk with them and help them out. And you know, if they want to engage him, they can. But ultimately, you know, he’s there to, like, be a resource, and say, here, here are all the things you need to think about. Like, here are the different vendors that I vetted that you may want to use, versus trying to figure it out on your own. And just having, I think, having people in your corner, whether it’s consultants, other lawyers that have done it before you, I think just realize, like, you don’t have to be alone. Like there are people out there that lean on that have done it, or that know you know enough to help you maybe make less mistakes.
Matthew Fornaro [12:25]
Yeah, I also think it’s probably a lot easier now, yeah, with whatever you want to say, AI and stuff, there’s a lot more information, whether it’s good or bad out there, but also just things like, you know, the Florida Bar, like, has instituted this program called legal fuel, which is like a practice help thing, for lack of a better term that they have that they didn’t have 10 years ago, that now, you know, there’s Florida Bar condoned things that they have where it’s like, how to start a law firm, how To properly, like, you know, come up with a web page or SEO or whatever, where a lot of those tools weren’t around, you know, 11 years ago. And I think it’s a lot easier now to do than it was then.
Steve Fretzin [13:15]
Yeah, so there are challenges, but maybe less now than in the past. I mean, certainly overhead is one of them. I don’t think you need to have, you know, like, a legit office. I don’t think you need to have a receptionist. I don’t think you need to have, you know, a $20,000 website. I think that there’s things that you can do, like, I’m even talking to some lawyers about, hey, for the first six months, just, you know, make your LinkedIn really shine. Like, just drive everybody to your LinkedIn page. It’s basically your your online resume anyway, and put together, you know, $1,000 website, you know, for as a solo you don’t really need much more than is that sort of your understanding of like, how today you just don’t need what you needed in the past.
Matthew Fornaro [13:51]
Yeah. And like I said, the AI and the stuff is way better now. I mean, it’s crazy how much better everything is particularly on the tech side, because it’s all automated and like fire and forget kind of stuff, where previously it was like you had to pay a person to do a service, and now you can just pay AI to do it for a 10th of the cost, and they’ll do it better. So it’s, yeah, I mean, that aspect is a lot easier than it was, you know, just 10 years ago. I can only imagine 20 or 30 years ago, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [14:29]
I mean, aside from the AI that, I mean, we were talking about earlier, there’s definitely some things that can help, from a marketing and branding, positioning and all of that. But, you know, and then you were mentioning, like, the back end stuff of just making work easier because you’re able to leverage AI for that. But from a standpoint of somebody going out on their own, what are a couple of tools for that you’ve found with AI that help them to develop clients or just be more efficient with their day? Or, like, what are, what are some of the ways you’re using AI that. Made you, made your your life better, sure.
Matthew Fornaro [15:03]
I mean, I’ve exponentially gotten more and more into AI probably over the last two years, like I was using, you know, like I started out using chat GPT for whatever I use chat GPT for, like, two and a half years ago, and I can see the improvement in it by the work product that it puts out since then, but particularly over the last few months, I’m using a lot of AI regarding, like, support services and things that I used to have to pay way more money to people to do where now the AI does it better than the people could. For, you know, sometimes a 10th of the cost, like I can tell you, for instance, you know, just kind of collaterally like social media stuff. So, you know, having, like a presence on LinkedIn in X and Instagram and Tiktok and stuff like that, I know, like 10 years ago, when I started out like, you know, people wanted, like, $1,500 a month or $2,000 a month to be like an SEO person or a social media branding consultant, and would do that for you. Whereas now you can do it, or you can have the AI do it for $50 a month, and it does it better and more consistently, and the stuff is better, you know, a better work product than the people were doing at, like, less than a 10th of the cause. So that’s the kind of stuff, you know. And then the problem is, is that, you know, it’s kind of like back in the, you know, the 2000s the early 2000s like the.com bubble. There’s so many dot coms out there that you didn’t know what the hell is going on. And the market inflated and then burst. And it’s the same thing with AI too. There’s so many AI programs, and there’s so much AI that’s thrown at you, particularly like when you’re in business, that comes in on like your LinkedIn feed or your Facebook business feed. It’s just overwhelming. So what I’ve done is, instead of just randomly clicking on stuff and doing stuff, I identify like an issue and a problem, and then I figure out, well, what’s the best tool to address that issue and that problem? And then that’s how I proceed forward. Rather than be like, Oh, this looks great. Let me click on it. Yeah. So which has been more effective? Because then I research like, what’s the best either AI tool, software tool or whatever, and then I figure it out. I figure out that it matches the problem, and then I implement it.
Steve Fretzin [17:26]
Yeah, well, that’s, I mean, that’s the key. And the other thing has been a great switch is like getting, like trying to convince and work with lawyers to get them going on LinkedIn and posting, and trying to be a thought leader. And they’re, they’re, you know, they’re so skilled and so smart, and they’re hiding from the whole marketing, branding piece of what it means to grow a business and a brand. And so now, you know, with AI to say, you know, hey, you know. Just talk into it and tell it, you know. Like, here are the top five challenges that people you know come to me with and and I want to create, you know, five different posts, one a week for the next five weeks, or 10 weeks, or whatever it is. And it can, in 10 minutes, you know, get like, 10 or 15 posts for 10 or 15 weeks just laid out and so it and then you go, that’s exactly what I would would say, or would want to say, or make your tweaks. And now to post that, and to even schedule it out using the scheduling there’s a scheduling feature on LinkedIn where you don’t have you could do them all at once. You could just plug them in and cut and paste and and schedule it for this day, and then a week from then, and a week from then. And that’s been so great for lawyers who have been terrified of not just posting, but also the time commitment that they had to put in to think about, to craft and to create, and then post something on LinkedIn. So we’re seeing a lot more on LinkedIn. It’s a little more challenging to get through it all, because it’s just like you’re being and I’m like the king of, like, bombarding people with probably too much. But it’s because I’m, you know, I’ve got the standard podcast stuff and video stuff, then I come up with an idea or a feature or something I want to share. And so sometimes it’s two or three, four posts a day, which might be too much, but sort of is what it is.
Matthew Fornaro [19:07]
No, no, I like LinkedIn. I’m like, I would, I wouldn’t say I’m a LinkedIn troll, but I’m a LinkedIn aficionado. I like looking at the stuff that people put on LinkedIn for different ideas and stuff. So it’s interesting, although I think a lot of people use it for like, really weird purposes that I don’t really think, like promulgate business or business thought, but you know, it is what it is.
Steve Fretzin [19:31]
Yeah, with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm, rankings.io, prides itself on proof, not promises, mentality, the best firms hire rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases, other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver, get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free [email protected] today, hey everybody. It’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law priorities. This, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you. And let’s make this your breakout year. Made you think because of AI, and I’ve sort of brought this up on the show a little bit, but that as the billable hour becomes a little bit cloudy, more cloudy than it currently is, and things become more efficient, it just ethically, you can’t charge for things that took 100 hours that now take two. It’s going to hurt big law, and it’s going to drive more people into solo practices.
Matthew Fornaro [20:41]
Maybe, I mean, I know, for me, like when I implement AI in the actual practice aspect of what I do. I mean, yeah, it takes a lot less time to do things, because the AI makes it a lot more efficient. And, you know, I pass those savings on to the client. So, you know, something that used to take hours now takes less hours, or whatever. And then, you know, I have enough work in business where, instead of doing one thing that takes 10 hours, now I can do, you know, five things that take two hours. And but for the big firm model where, you know, it’s all set piece stuff, and, like, you know, three attorneys who work on a file and multi levels of review and stuff like that, I think that they’re going to have a problem trying to justify or do some of that stuff. Because Why do you need three attorneys to do something that AI did in 10 minutes? And why do I need, like the law clerk or the summer associate to do like initial research, to give to the junior attorney, to then put into something, to then give to the senior partner, when I could have just done something and had a memo that then someone could have vetted and verified for a 10th the amount of time and cost.
Steve Fretzin [22:03]
So so is sort of your recommendation for people that are either going out on their own or for people who are already out on their own, that they should invest X amount of time and effort into learning AI now, because otherwise, in a year, if they don’t do it, they’ll be sort of behind a year like I’m thinking, I need to get I’m using it, but not anywhere near what I should be using it, I think, right now. And if you know, one of the things I want to do is learn it so that I can teach it. I mean, same thing with LinkedIn. I learned LinkedIn, really, at a high level 20 years ago. I’ve been teaching it for 20 years, and because of that, it’s really helped me and helped my clients. So I think AI is similar, and, you know, I have to learn it so that I can teach it. And are you? Are you feeling like other lawyers need to catch up to maybe where you are?
Matthew Fornaro [22:48]
Yeah, you know, I by no means am at the the tip of the sword on AI like I have a friend. You mentioned, Philip fernaro. I have a friend, Richard Sierra. He is in a different plane of existence when it comes to AI. I mean, he has a similar practice to mine. We collaborate on a lot of stuff. He’s just in a different dimension. He’s years ahead, like I’m probably where I should be. He’s way far ahead. So I will tell you that in dealing with some of the attorneys I deal with who don’t use AI or whatever they’re getting consistently outworked and beat by people who do use AI, particularly people who use AI correctly and responsibly and assume control over the AI and verify the work product, rather than all these people who you see like on LinkedIn, when people post all These orders, sanction orders, all the stuff of lazy people who don’t use AI correctly. So, yeah, I mean, definitely any attorney, no matter where they’re practicing, needs to become familiar with AI to a certain degree to function in their business going forward, and whether that’s from a business owner standpoint, where you need the AI to help you with, like, back end, like, you know, things like SEO and like blog generation, things like, okay, that’s one whole aspect of AI. Then there’s the other AI of the actual practice of law, where it helps you, like, organize documents and review things, and gives you ideas that you can execute on in, you know, writing and stuff like that. So, you know, that’s a whole nother area where that definitely every attorney needs to know what’s going on with that. And then that’s also another thing where you have to try to kind of make informed decisions and stuff, because there’s so much material out there, you can spend every day just trying to figure out what AI to use, versus actually using it.
Steve Fretzin [24:43]
Well, and it’s changing all the time. So like, I meet, I meet a company that’s an AI company that does, you know, automated outbound emails for like, let’s just say client retention and loyalty, okay? Like they’re proactively finding things online and creating the email and sending it out. Out because it’s relevant to a client. Okay, great. So they’ve got this thing now and then, in six months or a year, is that obsolete? Right? Like, what they’re doing, like I can do without them, because what they’re doing with AI and in the system they’ve built now has become more common or normal. So then are they having to redefine their whole business model and how they do it, because everything’s moving so quickly. And that’s, that’s my concern with AI companies. Is that? And I, when I went to the ABA tech show here in Chicago, I don’t know, maybe, I guess it was, yeah, almost a year ago. You know, there’s half of the room was, or more than half the room was, AI companies were legal, and so, like, all right, are they even relevant? Or how are they staying in business? It’s, I mean, that’s not my concern, but that’s a challenge when you’re a lawyer working with an AI company and then trying to figure out, like, you know, are they relevant?
Matthew Fornaro [25:50]
Yeah, no, it’s true. I mean, a lot of these not just general AI, but particularly the legal AI, the stuff is, like, so sectarian or so specialized that they do that bigger AI companies are going to do it themselves, like within a few months. So they’re kind of out of business. I mean, a lot of these. I mean the document and the document analysis and document coaliting, or whatever you want to say type AI. I mean, that’s already done by Clio and Westlaw. So, I mean, that kind of stuff is ships kind of sailed. I mean, it’s kind of like I referred back to the.com bubble. I mean, there’s so many things out there that only the strong are going to survive or the useful are going to survive. So I mean, a lot of you know, a lot of the AI stuff becomes redundant real quickly because bigger AI platforms able to integrate that very small niche into their platform, right?
Steve Fretzin [26:47]
Well, super interesting stuff. I mean, between, you know, going on in your own and how easy it’s becoming, and then you start adding in, you know, the different resources and AI and things that are happening, I think there’s going to be, I do believe that there’s going to be a major shift in legal in the next couple of years as the billable hour. You know, we’ve been talking about getting rid of the billable hour and how it’s not going to last, and it always has, and people are still making more money than they ever have in the past. Many of my clients that are on the billable hour had their best year ever, than they’ve ever had, and last year was the best year before that, some of that’s business development, and some of that is, right, that just the billable hour, it’s just, you know, the big companies, and everybody’s just used to it, and they’re using it. But I think that’s that’s going to change when, you Like, legitimately can’t charge 100 hours, when it takes, you know, two hours for someone to do it through AI, you just can’t ethically. So things are going to change. Speaking of change, what’s Matthew’s big mistake?
Matthew Fornaro [27:42]
You know, my big mistake was, I guess, over the last 11 years, not having the necessary like business education and training, having to go off into founding my own business and everything. So I would have liked to have had more business training education, which I’ve subsequently got during the last, you know, 10 or 11 years I’ve been in a couple of different programs that have really, you know, brought me up to speed. But my biggest mistake would be, I didn’t know before I went out on my own.
Steve Fretzin [28:15]
Yeah? Well, I tell this people this on a pretty regular basis. Look, I’m not, you know, trying to be a master of all. I’m really focused on the business development and the personal branding side of growing a law practice, but I do have all the resources of helping people figure out comp, or helping people figure out insurance or help people figure out a bookkeeper, like I have all all those people in spades, so that makes it easier. But ultimately, you know, right? You know you have to, you have to bring in the business, right? You need to know you’re going to make your own paycheck. So I’ve got really very highly motivated attorneys that I work with around the world that are coming to me asking about my help. And I love it. It’s the greatest thing. And I think they’re saving themselves years and years, I guess, to your point of figuring it out on their own and winging it and throwing things on a wall, and let’s just cut to let’s get to it right. There’s these processes and systems and proven methods for this. So, yeah, no, I agree, yeah. Well, I’m glad you figured it out, and I’m glad that you’re as successful as you’ve been, Matthew, and this has been unbelievable. Um, want to take a moment to thank our amazing sponsors. Of course, rankings IO continue to crush it for those pi firms that want top notch, you know, social media and pay per click and SEO and AEO and all the things that are happening to get leads in the door. And, of course, the law her podcast with Sonia and everybody, check out future rainmakers. That show is coming on strong, building a nice audience. But it’s more direct advice for me, and I’m bringing in some clients to help support you know what we’re doing together to help you to be that lawyer, Matthew, people want to get in touch with you. They want to work with you down in Florida. What are your digits?
Matthew Fornaro [29:50]
Sure. So I’m all over every social media platform. You know, the easiest way to get a hold of me is just go to my website for narrow legal.com and it’s got links. To all my social media, my contact information. You know, you can fill out whatever, and I’ll get it. So best way to get a hold of me go to my website.
Steve Fretzin [30:09]
Yeah, fantastic. And we’ll make sure we put everything in the show notes for you as well. And just thanks so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom. And I think there’s a lot of people who are not only interested in going out on their own, but also interested in figuring out this whole AI thing, and I think you’ve given some real clarity on a number of points around that. So appreciate you very much.
Matthew Fornaro [30:28]
I appreciate it, Steve, thank you very much. Happy New Year and have a good point. Thanks.
Steve Fretzin [30:33]
Thank you and thank you everybody for hanging out with Matthew and I for the last 30 again, hopefully you got a couple of good takeaways and tips, as we try to do on this show to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. Happy New Year, everybody. Take care. Be safe, be well. We will talk again soon.
Narrator [30:52]
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal, business development and marketing trends, for more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.