Michael and Courtney English: SOPs for Your Efficient Law Firm

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Michael English, and Courtney English discuss:

  • Improving efficiency to improve your life and business.
  • Why SOPs are so important to your law firm and business.
  • Top challenges lawyers face in automating and scaling.
  • Writing out the SOPs for your law firm.

Key Takeaways:

  • SOPs (standard operating procedures) are the key to creating a streamlined law firm and will allow you to delegate appropriately the activities that you, as the lawyer, do not need to be doing.
  • Create training videos or modules to help train new employees rather than just having them shadow another employee and hoping for the best.
  • For law firms with flat fee pricing, SOPs can create efficiencies and allow for automations that will help you to give more dollars to your bottom line.
  • Automations save time for everyone, but you need to know what it is that is being done in order to standardize, automate, and delegate.

“SOPs create consistency and responsibilities within a law firm – everybody knows what their job entails at that point, so there’s no question as to the responsibilities that lay on everybody’s shoulders. ” —  Michael English

Connect with Michael and Courtney English:  

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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

SPEAKERS

Narrator, Steve Fretzin, MoneyPenny, Michael English, Jordan Ostroff, Practice Panther, Courtney English

 

Michael English  [00:00]

One thing that SOPs can really solve is, you know, like how we talk about delegation a lot is, you know, the increase consistency and the responsibilities within a law firm. And everybody knows kind of like what their job entails at that point. And so, you know, there’s no question as to like the responsibilities on that lay on everybody’s shoulders.

 

Narrator  [00:27]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer, coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

 

Steve Fretzin  [00:49]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am the host, Steve Fretzin. As the announcer mentioned, I hope you’re having a lovely day. And yeah, we got some rain here and around the country. But in Chicago, it’s just miserable, we finally have the fall coming our way. But it’s a great time to reconsider investing in yourself with books and mentors and coaching and things to kind of wrap up the year really, really strong. I think that’s so important. And so again, if you’re interested in hearing more about Fretzin, check out my [email protected] You can check me out on LinkedIn, just type my name in or go to Amazon and type my name in and you’ll see the four books I’ve written and just grabbing a copy and just trying to you know, figure some things out. I think it’s never a bad idea. Then you could support my son’s 529 which is where all that book money’s gone and millions of dollars in book money. I gotta gotta keep that flowing. I’ve got Michael and Courtney waiting in the wings. How’re you guys doing? Okay. All right. Nice. And of course have to thank those wonderful sponsors. We’ve got money Penny, we’ve got practice Panther. And we’ve got legalese. And I think they’ve got some new ads up on the, on the old, independent podcast. So you’re gonna want to listen to those. I think they’re giving you some discounts and some some deals through this podcast. So check those out. All right, Michael Courtney, we’ve got a quote of the show. And that is where there is no standard, there can be no kaizen. And I think I said that properly, too.

 

Courtney English  [02:14]

I think Google would agree. That’s how we would agree. Yeah, Courtney.

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:17]

So why why did you submit that quote of the show?

 

Courtney English  [02:20]

Yeah. So that was read by the author of lean manufacturing. And Toyota writes it? Oh, no, that’s how we say it. But essentially, it’s just that, without that standard, you don’t have efficiency. And that’s really what we aim to do. So Kaizen is what you’re seeking that the Japanese word for proving that efficiency. And that’s really where we step in, and what we do. So we’re big believers in that we can carry a lot of weight, because if you’re constantly seeking that efficiency, you can only get better your business improved, your life improves.

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:50]

Yeah, I’m a huge, a huge fan of efficiency. I’m one of these these guys I was I’m like a serial entrepreneur, I’m just like a feather on the wind. And like, I was just doing way too much, you know, and business cards stacked up and paper everywhere. And, you know, between some of the time management stuff I learned and, and just going paperless and bunch of things that really made a big difference in my world. So I know you guys are gonna have a lot to share. Welcome to the show. You are Michael and Courtney, English, you know that though? You know who you are. Right? I’m telling telling you who you are. All right. Well, that’s something. You’re the founders of Chartered consulting. And I’d love to hear sort of how you got into the efficiency helping lawyers game, which is what we’re going to be talking about the rest of the show. So catch us up on kind of your background. And what led you to where you are to now with with charter consulting.

 

Courtney English  [03:41]

Yeah, so I run a virtual law practice, I’m an attorney as well. So I would upscale law. And we do everything, probably virtually. And that’s been from streamlining systems. And that’s what we do. So we built these systems out in my practice, Michael was absolutely instrumental in that process. So and that’s where we come in and do the same thing for other law firms.

 

Michael English  [04:01]

Yeah, and a lot of an entity job I had before, you know, quitting those jobs or joining her foreign firm. You know, I was always thrown into process management opportunities, and leading the charge and implementing new software, and, you know, kind of speaking for our offices and how we need those processes structured. And so, you know, once I, you know, jumped out of those corporate gigs and joined her firm, it was kind of just a natural fit for me to slide in and help, you know, streamline things with her.

 

Steve Fretzin  [04:30]

Yeah, and this is a story that I keep hearing over and over where people work together to figure something out and do it like really well for themselves and then, right, and then they’re able to, like start helping others. Right. Is that is that kind of the story?

 

Courtney English  [04:42]

Yeah. People would always ask me, like, how are you doing this without any extra paralegals support? Or how are you doing this from your home? And I was like, oh, it’s awesome. There’s software like Yes, can be done. And yeah, we were just helping other law firms. I’m like, Hey, we can make this the business. Yeah.

 

Michael English  [04:59]

Like this side thing. that I was, you know, that we were doing and they were like, Wow, a lot of people need this.

 

Steve Fretzin  [05:06]

There’s nothing that’s that’s the game, right? The side hustle that turns into the main business and people are doing it all over the place. Do you guys have like a, b, that lawyer tipping point? Sort of like where you either figure this out? Or were you just like realize that, you know, efficiency was something that you could, that you could really help law firms with?

 

Courtney English  [05:24]

Yeah, I would say I probably could speak more to that. Because I was one home with a two year old trying to run a law practice without a babysitter figured all that out. Right? So I kept on like, I need help, I need to figure out a system a process, like I was just so stuck at it. So once we figured that out, and I’d meet other mainly women who ran law practices, I’m like, oh, there’s a way to solve that, especially during COVID. Like, you can solve these problems. And just as conversations have coming up, and we’re like, this is it like, this is the thing, you know, this is what people need, and it improved our lives so much. Because before it was like the law firm was running us. Like, we were just responding all the time, I was always on him to do a task or helped me with a thing and no, it’s just so much smoother. It’s a complete 180 Yeah, well, it’s amazing

 

Steve Fretzin  [06:07]

how little training and help there is for lawyers to get organized and to get an understanding of not only you know, business development, which is my game, but you know, just running a practice and all that those moving parts, but but there’s so much that can be that can be, you know, either automated or through what you guys are going to talk about, which I think is we’re going to focus on, you know, standard operating procedures or SOPs, right so it’s, it’s just like with that you have all the ability in the world to go where you want to go. And without them, it’s like you’re just winging it right? From from minute to minute day to day letting your, you know, the world kind of dictate your you know, your day.

 

Courtney English  [06:46]

Yeah, absolutely. SOPs, standard operating procedures. SOPs are the rulebook, right? That’s what you’re supposed to be doing. That’s that 123. And as lawyers were taught to, like, follow element, but then yet, when it comes to our business, we’re like, where do I begin? Right? It’s like a circular thinking. It’s the same process as stacking those elements and those steps and just working through them. And I mean, that’s Michael used to work offshore and supply chain vessels. And he’s like, why don’t you have processes if we follow the process wrong? Like someone could die? Right, like your steps for reason. And you have that same seriousness in your business? Yeah. And that was really important. Yeah.

 

Michael English  [07:23]

Yeah. Cuz there’s like, every, every particular job that you could potentially do on the ship was outlined by an SOP. And so that was not just for, you know, just for efficiency standards, but also safety as well. And, you know, and it’s the, the idea of having a written, SOP, you know, is that, like you have every potential step. And every person that’s responsible for those steps outlined in there so much that anybody can step in and know exactly how things operate.

 

Steve Fretzin  [07:57]

When that hits home. So many ways nowadays, Michael, in particular, because of the great resignation and the quiet quitting and the fact that, you know, lawyers associates are getting, you know, poached and picked up, I think that’s slowing down now. But I mean, it was rampid for a year and a half and, and then then someone would step in, and like, Alright, now what do I do? Well, there’s your desk, and there’s your phone. And hopefully, you know how to practice law. So go for it. And then yeah, it’d be a failure would take a long time to ramp up. So not great, right?

 

Courtney English  [08:27]

Yeah, absolutely. The continuity of that is so important. And so many small firms especially do not have that they don’t understand. They have like Sally doing the bookkeeping and the marketing puzzle limit of paralegal work. Like, you’re never gonna find Sally again, she’s gonna leave and you’re never gonna find someone who’s got all those skills again. So you need to really have each process outlined for the steps in your business,

 

Michael English  [08:47]

especially when you’re working with you know, contracted employees like virtual assistants and stuff you don’t they’re not solely dedicated to your firm. And so at any moment, they could just drop out. And you need somebody to fill that real quickly. Yeah.

 

Steve Fretzin  [09:01]

So what are you guys seeing then, as it relates to some some top challenges that lawyers have in either automating their business or scaling their practice? Or just the things that they’re just missing the boat on? What are like the top three that you see?

 

Courtney English  [09:16]

I would say definitely the top three, the first one is SOPs. Lawyers don’t know what it is. They don’t know how to do it. It’s scary. It’s overwhelming. It doesn’t have to be but that’s there’s a lot of like, oh, that’s corporate speak. I’m a lawyer. I don’t need to know that. But really, you do. I then I would say along with that goes delegation. Without those solid procedures in place. How can you delegate and if you do delegate, is it efficient? Do you know what they’re doing? Can you measure their success? And those like KPIs we all want in our business, you can’t create those unless you have like delegable task, so you got to have those things. Then the final piece of that I would say is management. Then once you have those pieces in place, you’ve got to manage it. You have to know how you’re going to manage it. And you can say, this looks great on paper when I’m at a coffee shop. But if I don’t have software or a dashboard, or some way to keep track of all these things, it’s all going to just fall apart. So alive is human behavior and those n steps, but you got to create on the front end, so you know how to respond.

 

Steve Fretzin  [10:16]

I think a big one too, is training like you just brought in a new paralegal. What’s What’s the training? Well, there isn’t any training. Well, they just multiple will meet every day at the beginning of the day, and hope that you have a good day and you can handle the work. I’m throwing you. But there’s no training. There’s no like process for that. So that ends up not good, either a failure or it ends up working out, but maybe takes a lot longer to get ramped up.

 

Courtney English  [10:40]

Yeah, I would absolutely agree from my time working in firms department built my Oh, and it was like, just have this person sit with you all day, right?

 

Steve Fretzin  [10:46]

The shadow the shadow move?

 

Courtney English  [10:48]

Yeah. And so when I hired what we did is we recorded videos and create a training modules. So when our paralegal came on board, she could watch these videos, and then we have to start had a meeting with me to go through a real case. And then we just broke it out on those steps. So that worked. She I mean, she hasn’t complained, she seems happy. So we like it, it runs well.

 

Steve Fretzin  [11:08]

Yeah. So Michael, let me ask you, how do SOPs solve many of the problems that lawyers find in trying to grow and scale a law practice?

 

Michael English  [11:20]

Well, I think one thing that SOPs can really solve is, you know, like, how we talk about delegation a lot is, you know, it creates consistency and the responsibilities within a law firm. And everybody knows kind of like what their job entails at that point. And so, you know, there’s no question as to like the responsibilities on that lay on everybody’s shoulders. And on top of that, SOPs can outline, you know, what things are being automated within the firm itself, and the automations itself, and leveraging those can assist you greatly, and cutting down the amount of work, especially for people that have flat fee arrangements, you know, automations are huge, when it comes to billing out flat fees, if it cuts down on your, you know, helps improve your ROI.

 

Steve Fretzin  [12:08]

So give me give me an example of a law firm or a lawyer that you helped with through SOPs, and where they were able to either save money or kind of see that return on investment or see that improvement more more quickly than if they had done it. They’re just the standard way.

 

[12:25]

Yeah, so

 

Michael English  [12:26]

I mean, a lot of the law firms, I currently work with our estate planning attorneys. And so just being able to fight, you know, show them the opportunities that they have within the software they’re using, as well as the people that they’re working with, can, you know, greatly reduce the amount of like stress that they’re experiencing and be able to manage the workload that they have. So that alone can be a huge saver for them, just knowing where everything is at, at any point in time, write down

 

Courtney English  [12:53]

their admin hours and cut down substantially, I think we’re hearing like five to 10, at least a week, right now, saving on admin work, just from being able to follow these processes and have that back and built out.

 

Steve Fretzin  [13:04]

I mean, something that I’ve helped lawyers with was, they were handing work over to an associate the work would come back subpar, then they would just say, well, if I have to write out what I want, and then give it back to that associate, I could just do it myself. Right. So then they do it themselves, and that sort of this, you know, nasty chain that that keeps going on? And I was telling them, you know, why don’t you so this would be an SOP example, right? But why don’t you write up like a checklist of you, if you’re going to turn something back into me, here’s the checklist of five or 10 things that need to be done, and check the box before it gets turned into me grammar check. You know, you checked all the you know, the information to make sure it’s accurate, whatever it was, and that way they’re getting it back, either accurately or there’s maybe a question. I mean, that’s, that’s just one example of many, but I think Geez, that can really cut back on, you know, all the back and forth with handing off work that doesn’t get done properly.

 

Michael English  [13:58]

Yeah, and I’ve had clients that have just, you know, all we want is a way to be able to manage our paralegals and our assistants and stuff, and how do we make sure that, you know, they’re checking the box, you know, on everything that they’re doing before it ever gets turned into us, like you said, and so we’ve sat down for, like, you know, diligently for, you know, who knows how long, just outlining individual tasks? Like, you know, all right, you know, when you have to when you get a questionnaire from a client completed or something for an estate plan, for example, it’s like, what are the steps that go into that before it ever goes into an attorney’s hand? So, like, I log when you upload all the information into well docs, and you know, what are the exact individual steps that they have to go through before they ever come to

 

Steve Fretzin  [14:47]

you? Right, it’s just going to make sure that you’re you’ve got all the information you need, for example, the like an intake done properly versus an intake done improperly, right? It’s you’re just going to have a much better meeting with all that information in front of You, for example, as a lawyer, then then it’s just, you know, just you’re kind of shot out of a cannon and, you know, in the middle

 

Courtney English  [15:05]

of it. Yeah, and a lot of those like, things like that. It’s like, oh, it’s just a great idea. But how do I do it? Right? Like that’s a law firm owner, I listen, these podcasts and I’ve been told information like, this is great. What do I do with this? I think that’s really where we kind of have found that need and bridge that gap. Is that piece of like having a conversation with you, you know, like, okay, so an intake form comes in and it’s done incorrectly. What happens? Like, oh, I don’t I call them like, Well, do you have to, you know, where is it? Like, who’s responsible for it? Just breaking all that apart, deconstructing it so you can build out a process?

 

Michael English  [15:38]

Yeah, and luckily for me, most most people hate writing out processes.

 

Courtney English  [15:45]

Because either you love it or there’s like no one who wants to do

 

Steve Fretzin  [15:52]

that. I love it thing. I think Michael Michaels got that unique but unique talent that most lawyers despise.

 

Michael English  [15:59]

Yeah, I’ll take it forever.

 

Steve Fretzin  [16:02]

But they can I mean, they can write the hell out of a brief and they can research and all that stuff. But But writing SOPs probably not so much.

 

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Steve Fretzin  [17:37]

So then, let’s talk about writing some killer SOPs. What are some of the key? If somebody says, Look, I want to do this myself, I want to give this a shot? I probably won’t. I’ll end up talking to you guys. But if somebody wanted to do it themselves, or at least give it a shot, what are a couple of couple of things that they could take away from the show? Where you know, how do you start one, like figure out that you need one? How do you start one? How do you complete one? How do you execute on it? What are the what’s the process there?

 

Courtney English  [18:03]

I would say the first thing is you have to set all your task. And this is really where people don’t want to do it, right? Because they’re like, oh, I don’t know, I get a form. And then I fill out this information like Well, between that there’s steps, right? Where does it go? Where’s it saved? What drive how’s it labeled? So you want to write all that out? You want every task and then you want to identify what can be delegated, what you want to do and what can be deleted. And people hate that delete, were like, Oh, it has to be done. Well, delete can be being automated too. And that’s something else that you know, that’s really what we help with as well as like, automate it. And that gets it off everyone’s plate.

 

Steve Fretzin  [18:38]

Yeah. So let me let me just stop you, Courtney, because that you don’t want to I don’t want to skip over something you said that is really critical. That is, it’s not about about anything other than who who who is responsible for this. And if you as a lawyer can can write up a list of tasks and a list of things or whatever, and figure out that 30% of the stuff that you’re doing is not for you. That can be an absolute game changer as it relates to efficiency, profitability, and peace of mind and getting balanced back. Because right now you think everything needs to be done by you.

 

Courtney English  [19:15]

Exactly. Yeah, that’s 100%. Like even people will control like over their social media. Like as a lawyer, I definitely did it first as well. But think about all those things that it takes the drafting of the posts, the creating the posting, the scheduling, staying on top of it, all that stuff, and you write all that out, you’re like, actually, I don’t have to do this. Someone else could do this. But you have to write it all out first. And that’s how you create that’s really what an SOP is, is writing out all the steps in closing, who’s going to do it? And do I have to do it? And if I don’t have to do it, can I automate it? Can I delegate it? And I always like to take a step on and like what do I want to do, right? Like where’s the stuff that I actually liked doing it? Because you don’t want to offload the things you enjoy or won’t be worth it.

 

Michael English  [19:55]

And then you can even like break it down even further the things that the attorney is responsible for. where it’s like, you know, are you using standard forms to complete certain tasks? AND, and OR are you completely Ryan everything by hand or start from scratch? So it’s like, what can you standardize within the firm to make things easier,

 

Courtney English  [20:13]

but you gotta be able to step back and look at it. So any lawyer who listens to this and wants to do this, like, get away, go away from your desk, or to a coffee shop, like, and just totally step back and look at your firm like you’re an outsider. And that’s what’s gonna be really difficult to do, because we’re so close to it. But it takes that bird’s eye view, to be able to figure out all those pieces.

 

Steve Fretzin  [20:32]

So we figure out the tasks we identify, here’s everything that I’m doing everything that’s going on around me, then then where do we where do we go with it from there?

 

Courtney English  [20:42]

Yeah, once you figure it out what they are and who you can delegate them to, you want to make sure those people you’re delegating to you have processes for how you’re seeing it. And when you guys are meeting if you’re meeting, and how that relationship looks. So it’s really popular to offload to VAs virtual assistants, I mean, I’ve had the same one for three years, she’s fantastic, but we have it very clear about what she’s responsible for. And when we meet, and you want to make sure that you’re outlining those processes as well. It’s not just the assembly line of the work coming through your firm. It’s also how you’re interacting within your firm. And that’s going to help you stay on top of things without being stressed out of things are getting done. That’s

 

Steve Fretzin  [21:21]

right. And that’s where a lot of stress comes in, is when you feel like you’re being taken advantage of by an employee who’s maybe quietly quitting or maybe is just, you know, not doing the responsibilities that he or she is supposed to do. And I think when you have a process for delegation, and you you’ve outlined it and agreed on it, you always have something to go back to right to say, you know, this is what you’ve been doing. This is what we agreed to how are we going to resolve that?

 

Courtney English  [21:45]

Yeah, it’s your rulebook, right? It’s like we’re sitting, we’re playing a game, and we have the rules. I’m gonna go back to start or what’s the book, say? And that’s what you’re building? That’s what we’re all going to reference and what’s hiding it from anybody, but it allows guidelines to work together.

 

Steve Fretzin  [21:58]

Yeah, that’s where fights begin in my family with board games, when somebody pulls out the rules and starts reading them, and then everybody loses their mind.

 

Courtney English  [22:05]

Yeah, we have

 

Steve Fretzin  [22:08]

the practice of law and then the world of delegation and SOPs, I think we’re, I think we’re probably Okay, so we’ve got a process for delegation, everybody’s like, understanding kind of that they’re on the same page. And then any other further steps after that.

 

Courtney English  [22:24]

Yeah, at that point, I would really like to see what you can automate, even just your own googling of it, can I automate billing, like whatever that may be for you and your practice that you want to explore, explore it, software has come such a long way. And it’s pretty reasonable to so people kind of get down the weeds, but ultimately expensive or to this to that? Well, I can tell you about my practice, virtually save the real estate costs, and we’re still very profitable, so it can be done.

 

Steve Fretzin  [22:50]

All right, you guys want to play a quick game, as we’re wrapping things up? We’re gonna call it favorite out favorite automation. I’m gonna say my favorite automation, and then you guys have to pick a different audit, you guys gotta chew, because you can’t have the same one, to talk privately amongst yourselves. But my favorite automation in the last number of years has been auto scheduling. So the idea that I don’t have to go back and forth with my clients back and forth with prospects back and forth with anybody over when we’re going to meet how we’re going to meet any of it 100% automated, I do almost none of that anymore. Maybe once or twice a month, I have to, you know, bend the knee for someone that doesn’t understand the automation or doesn’t want to go that way. But I absolutely it is saving me a tremendous amount of time. And I love it. I love it. So that’s my automation. Now, what about you, Michael?

 

Michael English  [23:39]

I would say my favorite automation is document drafting. Okay, so you know, even if it’s just the basic information, names, addresses stuff, it just saves you so much more time just not having to go back into the file, look that stuff up.

 

Steve Fretzin  [23:52]

Okay, is there a specific software that you use or like or is it just general? The drafting software draft, it’s

 

Michael English  [23:58]

mostly just chatting software through like our case management? Okay, great. And coordinate,

 

Courtney English  [24:05]

email follow ups. I have all that automated. It used to be like, hey, I need this document. Hey, where’s this thing and we’re like waiting and waiting. Now that’s all automated.

 

Steve Fretzin  [24:13]

So what how do you do that? What’s the automation on that is like just a reminder

 

Courtney English  [24:17]

system where what is that? I built it all out in our case management software.

 

Steve Fretzin  [24:21]

Okay, okay, got it. Got it. Okay, I’m using something called Boomerang you guys know about Boomerang. Boomerang is like, it’s not as good is what you have at all. But essentially, when I send out an email, I say, like I put in this in on my Gmail or Outlook, boomerang, which is like, if this person doesn’t reply to me within a certain amount of time that I designate a week for days, two hours, then it goes to the top of my email. So like, I don’t have to worry about following up with people because I always boomerang them that if they haven’t responded to me or done something, then I’m going to be in a position to be notified of it. So that really takes a lot of the follow up. You know, a makes dynamite out of my out of my head. So really cool stuff, guys, any kind of final thoughts on SOPs, automation wise words for attorneys that are struggling with, you know how to stay organized?

 

Michael English  [25:13]

Yeah, I mean, what what that I’d like to bring up is, you know, when we talk about automations, especially for, you know, solo small firms I run into with a lot of clients where they want to automate as much as possible, like they want the world of automations. And I just want to say, like, be careful with that. Because, you know, just as something that’s like, you know, when you’re dealing with customers, or your clients, you know, or working with attorneys, and it’s a very personal situation that they’re dealing with, you know, always automate too much. Then you sound like a robot,

 

Courtney English  [25:49]

you can, there’s a way to automate with that client centric model. And that’s what we’ve built out. Like, for me personally, it just keeping those touches in there. So it is still client personal lives. So don’t be scared of it. So there’s some of that right, is that lawyers are either too they’re like overeager, or they’re terrified. So it’s like, you know, there is a balance where you can still have that touch that follow up what you want, but didn’t offload a lot of those tedious, redundant tasks.

 

Steve Fretzin  [26:15]

Yeah, I mean, an automation I absolutely hate our phone trees. So like, you know, hit one for this two for that three, but I’m just sitting, it’s the thing that I want isn’t listed, so that I hit zero, and that doesn’t go anywhere. And then I ended up hanging it up and calling back and hitting another five minutes. Like, if I’m trying to get a lawyer and I’m stuck in a phone tree. Forget it. Like I’m moving on to the next one. By the way, that’s a great time to look at money Penny as an option, right, some sort of live receptionists Virtual Receptionist, or, you know, just mentioned that about my sponsor money. Penny. Okay. Moving on moving along. So you guys have a game changing book. And the comp is a duck compound effect,

 

Courtney English  [26:54]

the compound effect by Darren Hardy.

 

Steve Fretzin  [26:56]

Okay, tell me about that. I have to be honest, I have not heard of that book. So I’m, I’m a weirdo. I guess because you’re looking at me like, yeah. Tell me about the compound effect.

 

Courtney English  [27:07]

Yeah. So the compound effect is the idea that the small steps that you do daily can add up to big results or big detriments in the end, right. Once you’re, you’re burdened, depending on those small steps. So even though you don’t think you’re taking steps towards something you really are, yeah. And the book outlines what that looks like in your day to day life. It just like consistency, but it’s not just like, Oh, I’m eating healthy every day, I’m gonna lose 20 pounds like, no, if you keep eating just the way you are, that still adds up to results as well. So even that unintentional behavior, yeah, so I love the book, I think consistency is extremely important in all areas of our life, raising kids running businesses, fitness, all of it. So I think it’s a great example of setting that foundation, how important it is, they could have called the book kaizen.

 

Steve Fretzin  [27:53]

Spirit, right? It’s about incremental improvement, right? In that in that, like the definition of a kind of, yeah, pretty much. Okay, so thank you, Google. So this has been wonderful, you guys, you’re you’re a great team. And I think what you’re doing is incredibly important, because the legal community, like like business development, organization, and automation and SOPs, and things like that are kind of foreign languages. And like we’re teaching foreign languages, to these lawyers to try to help them take things to the next level. And it’s a race to the top, who’s going to get there first. And I think what we’re all doing is very noble. If people want to get in touch with you to learn more about chartered consulting and in developing out in scaling their law practice, what’s the what are the best ways for them to reach you?

 

Courtney English  [28:36]

Check out our website at streamline my law firm.com, you can book a free call on there with an automated counter tool. Certainly no backup, practice what you preach. Yep. And you can get on a call with one of us and we can talk about your firm and see how we can help.

 

Steve Fretzin  [28:53]

Okay, so do like a little an initial consultation to kind of understand what they’re up to what they’re up against and what they’re looking to do. And then you guys can advise.

 

Courtney English  [29:03]

Yeah, exactly. So once we have that call, we give you a custom proposal, like what you need and what those steps look like. And then we decide where to go from there.

 

Steve Fretzin  [29:10]

Yeah, is there a is there like a size that fits you guys really well, like 1000 person firm may not be as good as a 50 person firm or a 10? person firm?

 

Courtney English  [29:19]

Yeah, I would say the bulk of our clients are probably what five lawyers. I mean, I’m a solo. So we definitely work with those two. So up to five lawyers is

 

Steve Fretzin  [29:29]

okay. Yeah, that’s probably a sweet spot for now. Right? Yeah, for now. Yeah. Who knows? Yeah. I have a feeling that that’s a lot a lot of a lot of my listeners are solo and small firm folks. And you know, I know that there’s some big big firm folks out there but but I think that it’s right in line with with the people that are you hungry to grow business are also hungry to automate and digitize and scale through efficiency. So it’s just really, really important what you guys are doing so Thanks so much for being on the show and sharing your wisdom and kind of, you know, given people a you know, people have been kind of clamoring I’ve been hearing the buzz about SOPs lately and so it was incredibly timely that you guys were able to make it on at this point. So yeah, thank you.

 

Michael English  [30:15]

Thank you for having us. Yeah,

 

Steve Fretzin  [30:16]

my pleasure. This is what I do maybe I throw out a baby there like a George Costanza throw out a baby. You don’t say baby baby every nikla your baby guy. Like Michael’s turning red right now just so you guys know. Yeah, that’s okay. Listen, everybody. Thank you for spending some time with Courtney Michael and myself today hopefully you got a couple of good takeaways I’ve got my usual page of notes and just you know helping you to be that lawyer someone who’s you know competent organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take everybody be safe be well, we’ll talk again soon.

 

Narrator  [30:56]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes