Michael DeLon: Creating Your Credibility

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Michael DeLon discuss:

  • Looking for fit, not just for business.
  • Using books to grow your business.
  • Credibility, authority, and thought leadership.
  • Discovering your story.

Key Takeaways:

  • Having a book makes you an expert on that topic. It gives instant credibility.
  • Working with a company like Paperback Expert allows you to speak to write your book, not physically write it yourself.
  • In our culture, it is near sacrilegious to throw away books. Giving a physical book is more likely to be kept (or shared further down the line) than something like a business card or ebook.
  • Tell the story that only you can tell. People remember stories. People connect through stories.

“It’s your story. People are going to choose you; they’re going to buy you more than what you can do for them. How or why are they going to choose you? You want people who connect with you.” —  Michael DeLon

Connect with Michael DeLon: 

Website: https://paperbackexpert.com/

Show: https://paperbackexpert.com/interviews/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeldelon/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MichaelDeLon

Credibility Calculator: https://thecredibilitycalculator.com/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Legalese Marketing: https://legaleasemarketing.com/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: [email protected]

Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.




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Michael Delon, Narrator, Stephanie Vaughn Jones, Steve Fretzin, Jordan Ostroff


Michael Delon  [00:00]

It’s your story. People are going to choose you. They’re going to buy you more than what you can do for them because there are 30 lawyers in town. Why are they going to choose you, you want people who connect with you?


Narrator  [00:15]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer Coach Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:38]

Hey everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin, your host and I appreciate you spending some time with me today. Whatever time of the day it is for you. Again, this show helping you to be that lawyer someone who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Listen, it’s another day, another dollar, we’ve got to keep things rolling along. My job is to continue to bring quality people to give you quality ideas, tips and takeaways that are going to make a difference in your life. It’s unfortunate I don’t have that today. I’m just kidding. Michael just gave me a look like wood. That’s good. Yeah. How about that? No, I’ve got a bombshell for you. Are you kidding me? Come on, you know this show. We’re not going to bring on a dud we bring us Come on. Yeah, yeah. So I’m going to talk to Mike you’re going to get to know Michael real well today. And before we get into the weeds with him, of course have to thank our sponsors money, Penny, and of course, legalese marketing, both great partners. For me. More importantly, great potential partners for you. Get your act together with your virtual your live reception with mighty penny, and having your outsourced marketing agency. who’s handling your newsletter? who’s handling your social media? Who’s creating a social media calendar for you? Let me guess, nobody. So here’s your opportunity to get ahead of the competition. Get ahead of the recession, everything that’s coming your way. And there we go with that. All right, so Michael Dylon, like mow the lawn? I don’t know that I’ve paid attention. All right. So Michael is the president hold on my, ah, remarkable to is on the fritz here. He’s the president of paperback expert. He’s also a great marketing coach. And Michael, you were so kind to submit a quote that I just love right away when I heard it. When the heart the mind will follow. Yeah, right. Roy Williams, pretty deep man.


Michael Delon  [02:24]

It is Roy roids, a marketing guy that has built multiple million dollar companies through really radio and TV advertising. But his whole thing is that he’s always just drilled in me as we make decisions emotionally first, and then we back it up with logic, right? Yep. And too many times, so many times in marketing, we’re just going after the thoughts, the the logic of the deal. And in the brain, Steve, the, the part of your brain that deals with logic, and the part of the brain that deals with emotion, they don’t talk to each other. It’s really amazing when you dig into it. So Roy says you want to be the first one somebody thinks of, and the one they feel the best about when they’re ready to make a buying decision. That’s how you grow business.


Steve Fretzin  [03:09]

Well, let me take that one step further. But before I do that, welcome to the show, man. Good to see you all. Thanks. Thanks for having me, by the way, nice to see you. So when I you know, I teach a method called sales pre selling, okay, and part of what that flips the script on is, I used to sell the sizzle of a steak I used to, you know, try to logically talk through people through a deal talk them through a buying decision. And what I found was that it was all backwards, that what buyers are really looking for, is they’re looking to be understood to be listened to, to identify that their problems in the solutions that we have fit. And then they’re in a position to also share with us maybe more intimate things about their situation, which leads to that emotional trigger that emotional piece that isn’t just about the money, like I’m not the cheapest guy in the block. If somebody just says, Steve, what do you charge? The conversations over? Right? Because whatever they have, in their mind, I should charge if it isn’t there, and it’s over. Right? So we have to get into the emotional element of it and look at what the potential ROI is and value, and then discuss price in the logic and how it fits later.


Michael Delon  [04:22]

Not upfront. Right, right. Yeah, no, it’s totally it’s true. And, and the challenge that a lot of people have Steve is in that process. It feels to me that you’re baiting me for that you’re building things up because I know your price is really big, and you gotta justify it in my mind. But when you come at it with a very chill approach, okay, so in my sales call, right, because I’m a high ticket item. Do I have you on the phone and say, Steve, I want to dive in really good. Here’s what I want to accomplish on my call on this call. I want to either solve an issue you’ve got right now let’s see if we can solve something for you on the call. If not, I may know somebody in my network who could solve it for you, if I can’t? Or if there’s a program I have that might fit for you. I’ll introduce you to that we’ll discuss it there is, is that fair? Yeah. And do that just relieves all the pressure? Well, yeah, that works. I can ask him, he’ll tell me what’s what’s going on? What are you trying to make happen? And I’ve learned this over the last few months of really diving into listen to you. And one of my coaches taught me that if you have a sales call, about a third of your sales calls are going to be I can’t help you. But I know somebody who can. Yeah, a third of my sales calls are just going to be we’re just not going to work together. Sorry. It’s not a fit. It’s not a fit. Yeah. And a third are going to be Yeah, we have something let’s keep talking. Let’s figure this thing out. And that gives me the freedom just to have conversations.


Steve Fretzin  [05:50]

Yeah. Well, and it takes a lot of the pressure off, when you realize that if if what you’re really looking for is not the business, but what you’re looking for is the fit. And if you can get that, that I gotta close this deal, I gotta lock this up, I got I got I gotta, and we can move it to is this something that’s going to be successful for both parties, whether that’s a lawyer and a client, whether that’s me and a client, or you and a client, that’s really what we’re looking for, and it’s not going to be a fit for everybody. That’s just the reality. So we have to let go. And the best thing is, if we can figure out it’s not a fit and help in some way, make a friend, add some value, maybe they’ll come back, maybe they won’t. But either way, we’re doing what’s right for other people. And that ultimately, it comes back to us in Karma comes back to us in in just how we feel about ourselves how other people feel about us. So I have a feeling since I’m talking about feelings. I’ve said the word not four times, I think, but your background is so unique and so amazing. And I think if we don’t get into maybe a Reader’s Digest version, but also enough to give us a flavor for why you got into what you got into and how you’re helping people on a daily basis, and how you live your life as a philosophy, right as just just a daily habit. So let’s get into that Michael, in, share a little bit about your background. Sure,


Michael Delon  [07:11]

sure. Well, really, the turning point in my life happened on June 29 of 1987. That’s the day that my dad was killed in a motorcycle accident. Now, I grew up in a Christian home, I wasn’t a believer at that time. I started going to church with my mom because she needs to be around her church friends. About a month or so later, Christ got ahold of my heart, I came to faith in Christ. Then I found I met my wife. Way back in, gosh, I was a realtor. Then I was an auto mechanic. And then I went to college. And when I went to college, I was in Christian radio for nine and a half years. That’s where I learned sales and marketing. first five years of my marriage, I’ve been married 32 years, Steve. Okay, nice. gratulations Thank you. Thank you. Two biological sons are 2723. And we’ve got to adopt a daughter who are 1311, because we did foster care for eight years fostered about 20 kids. And during that whole process, the first five years of my marriage were like this, because Jill and I are complete opposites. And even though we went to church growing up, nobody taught us how to be married. So we went to a marriage conference about family life, changed our marriage. And then a few years later, back in, like 2000, God called us to serve as missionaries with family life. So we moved from Indiana, down to Little Rock, Arkansas, which is where I live now. And we’re missionaries and I thought I hit Nirvana man. I thought I was in the place I was always going to be and climb the corporate ladder. Six years later, I was serving on the leadership team. They started going through those corporate reorganizations. Remember those? I do? Yeah. So they rolled out the third reorg. My name was no longer on the leadership team. And so they started shuffling me around the ministry doing different jobs. And that was the beginning of a two year prison term for me when I was in a job I hated at a ministry I loved. So I finally got fed up and prayed and God is God, if I could leave, he said, Yes. And he said, What do you want to do? I said, I want to go help small business owners with marketing, because they hate it. And I love it. So he said, Go, so I escaped prison, January 1 2013. I hit by the


Steve Fretzin  [09:06]

way, just just to just air quotes on the prison. The prison, you’re listening to this, you didn’t hear the air quotes, but they were definitely a special type of prison. That’s right.


Michael Delon  [09:15]

So I hit Easy Street, Steve, I started my own company, I became an entrepreneur, and I knew so much about marketing, I knew it’s gonna be really easy to get clients. So I come and meet with you. And we have a great conversation in somewhere in that conversation. You say, Now, Michael, what have you done in the last few years? I said, well help build marriages and families, a family life. And you say, That’s a horrible way to go. Oh, my God, look at the time. I’ve gotten another meeting. Out the door, right. Yeah. And I couldn’t get any clients. And so I went to my church, second floor pace in the hallways, I’m see it today, saying, God, how do I help Steve? And God gave me the idea to take all of my strategies and put them in a book. And so I did. I published my book on marketing back in 2013. And then I’d set a meeting with you and mail you a copy of my book. I walk Do your office a week later? And there it was, Steve, you’d read my book. And in that conversation, you say, No, Michael, in your book, you said, how do you help me do that? And you’d hire me that changed my business in my life. Because when you first met with me, I was on ministry guy. That second meeting, I was a marketing expert, because I had a book now. And I said, Why don’t business owners do this, to gain clients. And that was the seed that got planted that has now grown into paperback experts, where we help people create a book without writing a word and grow their business by using the book in the marketing. So


Steve Fretzin  [10:42]

yeah, well, thanks for that was so so what an amazing journey. And it ain’t over yet. God, you’ve got years to go. The lawyer listening right now is is heard the last part of what you said and said, Okay, wait a second, this guy is gonna write a book, my book without me writing a word. So so we know lawyers, and we know that they’re risk averse, we also know they can be skeptical. And you’re actually writing the book, and we’re getting into the weeds on this, the lawyer is going to write the book, maybe in a different way, then. So let’s talk a little bit about what you mean by that. And then I’ve got a bunch of other questions for you. But I just want to make sure we’re clarifying. When you say an article, write a word,


Michael Delon  [11:20]

finish that thought, yeah, so your lawyer, they have everything in their head, that they need to create a book, right? They just don’t have the time they don’t want to. So our writers, we have a writing staff of professional writers or writers hop on a zoom call, we have conversations with you and interview you, per se to build an outline for your book first. And then through that outline, we’re asking you questions, and you’re speaking to write your book, we record everything, transcribe that, and use that transcript as the foundational material through which our writer who has been with you now for a couple months, they understand your tone your voice, they’re going to actually write the book. But it’s your content, we don’t add content to your book.


Steve Fretzin  [12:01]

Okay, so difficult. So that that clarifies it. So the lawyer is an expert on estate planning, they’re gonna write the book with these interviews in these conversations, ultimately, they have time for that they don’t have time to sit down and write and figure out how to figure out the grammar and figure out the, the way it’s gonna be laid out and all that. So you’re handling the heavy lifting, but they’re actually creating the content through the interviews that you structure, okay, makes a lot of sense. Absolutely. Much easier. Like I haven’t, I’ve written four books all on my own. And it is a lot of work. It’s a lot of time, a lot of work also very rewarding and useful to your point. But I get it that it’s very difficult for someone who’s building 2000 hours and trying to do business development and everything else to then say, Oh, I’m, I’ve always wanted to write a book. I just don’t have time. So you’re basically you’ve solved that problem.


Michael Delon  [12:48]

Totally. Okay, less than 24 o’clock hours of your time, over the period of time, we’re working together, and you’ve got your book created.


Steve Fretzin  [12:56]

All right. So we’ve talked on this show many times about thought leadership, that could be thought leadership in an area that could be how you’re representing yourself on social media, on your website, and through your writing and speaking and all these different ways. Why is a book different from a standpoint of thought leadership than any other sort of medium?


Michael Delon  [13:17]

Yeah, a couple reasons. I mean, just in culture in general, experts have books, period, right. And the barrier to entry, let’s call it that, of creating a book is much higher than even a podcast, or a blog or a website or anything else, right? Anybody can do those. Creating a book, people know it takes time, effort, energy. And when you hand them a book, and it’s got a publisher’s and die show on the back in their brain, they’re gone. Wow, you must be something because you pick a publisher picked you, right? They don’t, the public doesn’t understand it all. But in our culture, experts have books and marketing effects take place in the mind of your audience. It’s how do they perceive and think about you. So if you’re an estate planning attorney, how many of them are in your market? And how many of them have created their own book and publish their own books? How many of them are Amazon best selling authors, how many of them have podcasts? Those are all indications of credibility and authority that your audience is going to give to you. And then you talked about being able to have thought leadership. Now I’ve got a book with 15 chapters. I can talk about 15 chapters in podcasts and blogs and emails for a decade. Right. It clarifies your message in your marketing. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [14:37]

And I think there is something to be said, and I guess I know this as well as anybody because I’ve written a number of them. And it’s not only clear that you’re either an expert or that you know your subject because you put the time into something like that, but it’s also a great handout. It’s great when I can say to someone Hey, I’m gonna send you my book, like you said right at the beginning or lately it’s been even I don’t know if this is better or worse. You can maybe tell me but I send people my ebook It’s just the creation shipping and all that it might. And I’m not talking about, like, if it’s a prospective client, maybe maybe sending a book is best. And I’ve done that on occasion. But just to be able to share the books easily and quickly in an ebook fresh and plus, I think also people, especially the younger generation likes the ease of the ebook versus not the actual paper book.


Michael Delon  [15:20]

Yeah, so it’s a both and in my world, okay. So you think, call center if somebody calls in for an estate plan or something, right? They’re giving you the information, you hang up the phone, you could text them a link to download your ebook, right? You’re getting great opportunity there. The challenge I have with with just staying with ebook alone is how many eBooks are on your computer. Stephen, where are they? Versus when I mail you a copy of that book? Did you know it’s sacrilegious to throw a book away in our culture? You’re gonna keep them?


Steve Fretzin  [15:50]

Yeah, you’re gonna move I’ve got I’ve got a couple I’m never gonna read that people have sent me and I’m not I’m not gonna say who and I don’t want to offend anybody. But they’re definitely going to be giveaway. They’re not throwing away their gifts, right. But I have no use for them. They’re not on a topic or subject that I’m ever going to need be interested in. Right. So that’s right, you’re right. We don’t throw away books. And I think that’s a good thing. Because someone’s gonna get value out of a book. It just may not be me.


Michael Delon  [16:13]

Well, they are in I look at your book in lots of of marketing. Okay, so we just talked lead generation, that’s one area. What about opening up centers of influence? Okay, what if you want to open up a relationship with a CPA? Right? Let’s just take that, for example, a financial adviser? How are you going to do that? Well, what if you take your book, and you put it in like a big gold envelope? And you put a nice note in it and you mail it to them? Are you going to open that Steve?


Steve Fretzin  [16:38]

Yeah, it’s classy. You then are can argue he showed me a beautiful gold container. It’s like, it’s like, you just got to borrow gold. But there’s a book in it.


Michael Delon  [16:46]

That’s right. Because it’s different. And it starts building a relationship. So there are so many ways to use a book, everybody says, well, I’ll put on my website. Well, yeah, that’s one, I’ve got about 20 others, because it’s about establishing that credibility and making sure you are the resource that people think of first. And so there’s just so much there. Alright.


Jordan Ostroff  [17:09]

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Steve Fretzin  [17:31]

He stuff tell everyone what Moneypenny does for law firms


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [17:35]

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Steve Fretzin  [17:48]

I did not know that. That’s a lot of business going away right there. Let’s cut to the chase. What are you prepared to do for my listeners?


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [17:55]

We’re offering an exclusive two week free trial. If you’re interested in hearing more, you can call me directly on 470-534-8846. I mentioned that you’ve heard this ad on Steve’s podcast.


Steve Fretzin  [18:09]

Very cool. Thanks. Last question on this. I’ve got a ton of others. I want to get to you mentioned about the importance of having a publisher. And I want you to have a balanced answer here pros and cons. Because there’s so many benefits to self publishing, and I could go through 10 of them. And there’s benefits to having a publisher and I can go through those. What do you see as the pro and con? Are people that into? Oh, it’s published through a publisher and here’s the stamp of approval? I mean, I don’t think I’m looking at a book for that.


Michael Delon  [18:39]

Yeah, yeah. It’s subliminal, okay. It’s like the you go to the ocean, you got waves, you got current, I look at the current law because that’s what’s going to kill you. Okay, in having that little end dash on the back. In my mind, it adds a little bit more credibility. Okay. Now, if you’re self publishing, could you create your own publishing Indonesia? Well, absolutely. You could have Britain publishing or whatever it is, right? Yeah. That’s great. What’s probably more important, honestly, in the self publishing world, is the look of the cover and the design of the interior. Yeah, I can tell you if a book has been self published without ever looking at the back cover.


Steve Fretzin  [19:15]

Yeah, there’s some bad there’s some bad books. Yeah. And you got to really you got to do it right or don’t Yeah, yeah. Agree. We’re on the same page with that.


Michael Delon  [19:21]

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if you’re going to self publish, go for it because I self published my first book, but we paid people to edit in format and design. Alright, now let’s,


Steve Fretzin  [19:30]

let’s take a step back part of what defines us in what creates thought leadership and what especially helps us with our authenticity. And that’s a very important word today, more than 20 years ago, people are looking for authenticity. It has to do with the story. My story people know most people listen to show get glimpses and pieces and parts and know my story, you know, plane crash. They know about my father, being a lawyer, they know about all these things that have come out in one way or Are the other? How important is is it for a lawyer in any particular field? For people to know that their story?


Michael Delon  [20:08]

Can I just say critical article, okay, here’s why it’s your story. People are gonna choose you, they’re gonna buy you more than what you can do for them because there are 30 lawyers in town. Why are they going to choose you? You want people who connect with you. Let me tell you a quick story attorney down in Florida. He came to me want to do a book. I said, Great. Let’s do it. A personal injury attorney got I got his story. He went down to Florida on a college baseball scholarship. He was gonna go to the major leagues. He was that good. Two years and he threw his arm out how to have surgery rehabilitation, killed his baseball career. Yep. Right. Graduated, became a personal injury attorney. He’s in a market with two other big dogs. These guys are spending half a million a month in marketing. He’s like, I I don’t have that. So he gives me a story. I said, William, have you ever told anybody that story? No. We’re going to. So we took his story. And I created his brand strategy, his positioning, and we titled his book, when life throws you


Steve Fretzin  [21:10]

a curveball. Ah, wow, look at you. All right, nice.


Michael Delon  [21:14]

Now, when he’s marketing, he can say if life’s throwing you a curveball, you’ve been in an accident or hurt at work. I understand. Because I’ve been where you are. And I’m committed to help you navigate this process and get the results that you’re after. And then he tells a story. When he goes on TV, because he’s on our morning show TV thing, right? I said William, walk in there, and make sure you’re carrying like a baseball glove. Have a baseball bat, talk to people about your baseball background, because that’s going to resonate with them. And you’re going to build common ground. So it changed his business. He’s still an attorney. But now he has a story to tell. But all the big dogs can’t tell it like that.


Steve Fretzin  [21:57]

But Michael It’s also highly memorable. Like you remember stories, remember people overcoming adversity. And, you know, I wish it you know, like I hear all the sales trainers from when I was coming up. They all somehow lived in their car at some point every sales creamer. Right. In my right. They all lived it all. Like, how is that possible that all these people are living in their cars? You know, eating garbage? I mean, then they came back from that, but I don’t know. Obviously, I remember or two of them doing that. But it’s memorable. It’s memorable. So I get it. So a lawyer is saying right now in their own mind. That sounds great. nothing bad ever happened to me. I went through law school I graduated I got a job. And that’s my story. And boring. It is. Oh. So what does the lawyer do that hasn’t lived in their car that has been in a tragic accident? That hasn’t been a plane crash like me? What’s the store? How do they develop that? Yeah. Other than talking to you, because they can talk to you. You’re obviously an expert at coming up with a with a great angles.


Michael Delon  [23:00]

And finding that what I do is I tell people, I don’t I don’t create your story. I discover it. Yeah. So if you’re listening to this, take a friend to coffee. Okay, God, Starbucks, wherever you go. Have your computer, your phone, hit the record button or just recording the conversation. And have them ask you about eight or 10 questions about your, your background, your childhood, where do you live, what your parents do? What hobbies what sports? Where do you go to college? Why do you live where you live? Why do you do what you do? And what you’re going to find is, as you listen to those answers transcribed as you can see it, as you listen to those answers, you’re going to find themes and consistencies in your you’re gonna say, Oh, I never realized that. That coach said something that built into my life that I still live with today. And that’s kind of why I do what I do. Oh, really? So let’s use that in your marketing. Okay. I do. I had an attorney and he lives in Honolulu. He called me to do a book. He’s like, I’m the most boring guy you’ll ever know. I don’t have a story. I said, I disagree with you. We learned he grew up in Hawaii. He moved to the United States to go to college. Then he moved back to Hawaii. Why do you do that? Tell me that. He unpacked his story. That was amazing. I said, Have you ever told that to anybody? No. We are so close to our own story. It’s boring to us.


Steve Fretzin  [24:21]

Yeah, we get that we get the tunnel vision on. It’s everything. It’s our businesses. It’s our marketing. It’s our marriages. It’s all this stuff that we’re just kind of rolling through the motions and we’re not thinking outside of the box or getting an outsider’s opinion or just talking. That’s why therapists are so important because they just they just helped bring stuff out that just isn’t going to get there without somebody. You know, thinking that poking at the bear.


Michael Delon  [24:45]

Yeah. But here’s the thing. Let me let me just answer this. Your client, your prospect. They are really really, really more interested in you and your background. They they know coming into the deal that you’re an accomplished attorney. You You could probably help them do what they need done. So can 20 other people in the market, they’re looking for somebody they can connect with at that heart level going back to the quote, When the heart, you get the right. Show yourself, tell me a little bit on your about us page. Tell me a little bit about you and your family or what your hobbies and then tell me all your credentials. Yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [25:21]

it’s a it’s a connection that’s being missed. And I’ll give you the best example. And And please, for anyone that’s made this comment to me. I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about everybody else. So I have a Michael Jordan Jersey behind me autograph 9095 picked it up, and it’s my treasure my only treasured item of memorabilia. I don’t really deal in that stuff. Okay, but everyone that gets on it, not everyone, but many people that get on a call with me immediately mentioned that. And I just kind of shake my hand. Yeah. Michael Jordan, I’m in Chicago and go through the motions. And it’s been, it’s we’re in the 1000s. Okay, that’s all I’m saying. Right. And the reality is, if somebody wants to connect with me, they need to read an article, they need to listen to my podcast, they need to, you know, they need to get know that my son and I go fishing a lot that we, you know, have a lot of quality time and I talk, there’s no lack of information about me on the internet, okay. And it goes to what you’re saying, which is connecting, we need to connect. And if it’s a story that connects, it’s a background that connects something that you have in common, even better. And that’s really what it’s all about.


Michael Delon  [26:21]

Yeah, it really is. And the fact that you and your son go fishing together right? Now the fisherman that doesn’t connect with me, but the fact that you’re a dad, and you have a son that connects two sons, there you go, there’s a good point of interest. Now I’m leaning in, because you’re spending time with your son, you’re building into your son. That’s a hot button for me. Let’s figure out who you are. Yeah, we’ll talk about lawyering and everything later. That’s, that’s where it’s made, really is, you know, yeah. So,


Steve Fretzin  [26:48]

alright, so a lawyer can sit down with a friend can be a spouse can be whatever, and they could share their story, answer those questions, and they can start to find the story. How do they then tell the story? How do they put that together and make it a part of their infomercial part of their website, part of their book part of the way that they’re going to conduct themselves moving forward?


Michael Delon  [27:09]

Yeah, great question. So just take the baseball guy example. Right, the attorney. Yeah, now that he’s got that signature message is what we call it when life throws you a curveball. Yeah. It should be on his website, his email signature, as he’s doing any presentation webinar and micro training face doesn’t matter. He should always be weaving that in and out, right? Because I’m a personal injury attorney because I help people. Well, when life throws you a curveball. That’s what we do. And you just talk about the curveballs that come did you get bitten by a dog? Well, that you didn’t see that coming? Did you that was a curveball. Do you know how hard curveballs are to hit right? And you just keep weaving that in and out of everything you do? So that you become known for that? Right? Um, we’re pretty well known for create a book without writing a word. Yeah, that’s your that’s your jam right there. That’s my jam. It stops you in your tracks compelled you to lean in and go tell me more. Yeah, that’s what you want. Yeah. So keep it relatively concise. But you use it everywhere. And so if you’re in a BNI group getting business right, and you extend up to do your one minute dog and pony show. Hi, I’m Steve Fretzin. And I help people when life throws them a curveball to navigate the legal jungle that they’re in or whatever it is, yeah. That’s what I do. And that’s going to be different than while I’m an attorney, and I help people. You know, a lot of you can


Steve Fretzin  [28:33]

say, I’m Steve Fretzin. I help lawyers not crash and burn like I did not.


Michael Delon  [28:37]

No, no, seriously.


Steve Fretzin  [28:39]

Because there was no burning, FYI. Okay. All right. You know, why would have any frickin gas. That’s why you need. Just FYI. Everybody is listening. Let me give you a little tip. It helps if you’re flying somewhere to have a full tank of gas. Just putting it out there. I love anybody interested in that point? Yeah, that’s great. The next small plane I went on after the one that didn’t land properly. First question I asked the guy was, you got it? You got a full tank of gas here? Yeah, we have a full time. Yes. Okay. Yeah. All right. I got one more question for you. And then we’re gonna wrap up. So you mentioned to me in our pre interview, that a big part of what a book does, and what finding their their story does, is it creates credibility. And that’s a really critical part of being a lawyer is credibility. And it isn’t just because lawyers can’t say they’re experts. They can’t say they’re specialists legally, there’s rules against doing that. But you’ve got something that you mentioned to me earlier called a credibility calculator. Can you talk about that and how that would help someone figure out their credibility score?


Michael Delon  [29:41]

Sure. So credibility is is word that we throw around, but how do you define it? So when I wrote my book on marketing, I had to come up with a definition of marketing because I googled it and there were like 300 of them and none of them made sense. Okay, so I created a definition of marketing. The marketing is everything you do to gain and retain a client Pretty simple, okay, same thing with credibility, what is it? So we created this credibility calculator, it’s on our website, in under five minutes by answering 20 questions will deliver to you a credibility score zero to 100. And then five videos that follow that, that help you understand how to increase your credibility, because, again, credibility is a perception in the mind of your audience. They’re looking for some criteria, what are those criteria? We’ve identified 20 of them, okay, you have a credit score, Steve, and you tried to improve your credit score? Do you know your credibility score?


Steve Fretzin  [30:38]

I don’t, but I want to take the test. Honestly, I feel like I can get a high score, I’m gonna I’m gonna, you know, push, I’m gonna push myself now. You know, this is like an LSAT. I gotta get the score to get into the sport. But I think it’s important. So what, what’s the website or what’s the, the details on not only to do the credibility calculator, but also if people want to get in touch with you about writing a book or just meeting with you to understand if it even makes sense. And again, you mentioned from the top, you know, low key, let’s see if it’s a fit, right, and all that. So I think it’s a great way to approach things. So give us the digits.


Michael Delon  [31:13]

Paperback, expert.com


Steve Fretzin  [31:17]

Okay, and that’ll be in the show notes.


Michael Delon  [31:19]

Yep. And when you get there, you’ll see a big red line talks about credibility calculator, right? Yep. They’re gonna be videos, they’re testimonials. They’re going to be free trainings. There’s going to be you can connect with me all over the place through scheduled. Everything. Michael, is paperback. expert.com. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [31:35]

So let’s get to that website and do that credibility calculator in contact. Michael, if you’re interested in putting a book together. And that’s been your dream, and you just never had the time to do it. But you got a couple extra bucks in your pocket and you’re, you feel like it might be time to do it. I mean, not a bad time to do it. I think we’re rolling into a potential recession here. Everyone’s buzzing about and things seem great right now. What are you doing to build your position and your your credibility for the future? So that may be something to consider highly. Michael, what’s the game changing book that you are bringing to the show today?


Michael Delon  [32:08]

Yeah, my game changing book is called positioning the battle for the mind by Jack trout and Al Ries. It was written probably 30 years ago. I


Steve Fretzin  [32:18]

mean, that book looks 50 years old. I’m telling you. Yeah. That books got some yellow pages. Man.


Michael Delon  [32:24]

I’ve read it a couple of times. Yeah. But it is it is without doubt the most influential book I’ve ever read on marketing, because it deals with how marketing works in the mind. So positioning and find it on Amazon. Go buy it. It’ll change your world. Beautiful. Well,


Steve Fretzin  [32:40]

thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your story and giving us all this great advice. It’s really meaningful to me I think, you know, you’re you’re someone that is authentic and in you’re willing to step up and and be a giver of your wisdom. So thank you so much, Michael.


Michael Delon  [32:57]

You’re welcome Steve. It’s been a joy talking with you and just a privilege to be here. Thank you. Yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [33:01]

two good dudes. Yeah, come on now. Yeah. Hey, everybody, Listen, come on. You’ve got it. I’ve got it my usual page of notes I got all kinds of things that I’m going to be doing that credibility calculator maybe not today because I’m I’m crashing soon crashed and burned and soon going out with a friend we’re gonna hit some dinner hit some sushi and then comedy show comedy show tonight. So we’ll see how the fun but listen, it’s all about tips, tricks, tips, ideas, tactics, strategies, all the marketing mumbo jumbo that helps you to be that lawyer someone who’s confident, organized and of course a skilled Rainmaker. Take care of everybody be safe be well, we’ll talk again soon.


Narrator  [33:43]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes