In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Michael Oberther discuss:
- Effective networking for attorneys
- Communicating complex legal concepts in a relatable manner
- Understanding your target audience in networking efforts
- Building strong referral relationships within professional networks
Key Takeaways:
- Attorneys should prepare to explain their services in simple terms, akin to explaining to a high schooler, to ensure clarity and recognition of referral opportunities.
- Sharing specific stories about past client interactions can help others understand the value of your services and identify potential referrals.
- Networking should be targeted; lawyers should focus on connecting with professionals who have clients that may need their legal services.
- Engaging others in conversation about their industries first can create a tailored networking approach that resonates more effectively with potential referral sources.
“I want to get them talking first… That gives me the opportunity, when it is my turn to share, to tailor my conversation directly back to the industries that they serve.” — Michael Oberther
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Episode References:
REAL AF with Andy Frisella: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/real-af-with-andy-frisella/id1012570406
About Michael Oberther: In 2014, Michael Oberther moved to New York City and, as a seasoned salesperson, aimed to build a professional network from scratch. He engaged with the NYC networking community and met the owner of ArcLedge Accounting, an outsourced bookkeeping firm, leading to his role as Director of Business Development. He developed a 100% referral-driven sales process and continues to drive growth through the referral network he built.
With 20 years in business development and client relations, Michael focuses on outsourced business service sales and effective relationship building, skills honed during seven years in the Air National Guard. His success comes from connecting with people, understanding their needs, and delivering solutions. Outside work, he enjoys Jiu Jitsu, rock climbing, and strength training.
Connect with Michael Oberther:
Website: https://www.arcledge.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeloberther/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/arcledge/mycompany/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/moberther/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
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FULL TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey listeners, I know you’re getting a ton of amazing tips from our expert guests here on the show, but keeping track of them can be a challenge. I know that. That’s why I’ve created Blogcasts, the perfect way to capture the best insights from every episode. Each Blogcast condenses an entire show into a two page summary packed with key takeaways that you can apply right away.
[00:00:21] Steve Fretzin: Head over to Fretzin. com slash blog to start reading, learning, and taking action. Let these blog casts help you on your journey to be that lawyer with Fretzin. Now enjoy the show
[00:00:35] Narrator: You’re listening to be that lawyer life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice Each episode your host author and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin Will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results Now, here’s your host Steve Fretzin
[00:00:56] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, welcome back to another Fun and exciting episode of be that lawyer with Fretzin podcast.
[00:01:03] Steve Fretzin: We are here for you every single week, twice a week to make sure that you are learning how to be your best self, to live the lawyer life and, you know, make less mistakes and do more things that are going to positively impact your life. As you guys know, I’m continually bringing on guests that are useful and helpful and wonderful to help you on this journey.
[00:01:22] Steve Fretzin: Today is no different. I’ve got Michael waiting in the wings. How’s it going, man?
[00:01:25] Michael Oberther: Going awesome, Steve. How you doing today?
[00:01:27] Steve Fretzin: Good. I said the, I said the name of the band Warrant a few minutes ago and your eyes lit up. So we were talking about death metal that led to my son’s interest in hair metal and then I start talking Warrant and Poison and Motley Crue and all these, these bands.
[00:01:41] Steve Fretzin: Is that of interest to you? Is that the genre that you love or do you go into more death metal stuff?
[00:01:45] Michael Oberther: Well, I was born in the late seventies. So the eighties hair metal bands were important, very critical to me in like third, fourth, fifth grade. Okay. Yeah.
[00:01:54] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Wow. Yeah. I I, you know, came up in the eighties and and, and I, yeah, I used to watch MTV.
[00:02:00] Steve Fretzin: That was like what we did as kids. And so, you know, you’d get you know, the, here we go again on our own. And, you know, all the videos that, that made up my, might have my childhood anyway.
[00:02:09] Michael Oberther: Beautiful.
[00:02:10] Steve Fretzin: It’s funny, we, I took my son to see a tribute band called Jump, which was a Van Halen David Lee Roth tribute band, and they were frickin spot on.
[00:02:19] Steve Fretzin: I mean, word for word, note for note, the, the, the guy dressed and looked just like David Lee Roth, it was really, my son was up against the stage the whole time and just, Rocking with the band. Anyway, memories, good memories,
[00:02:31] Michael Oberther: beautiful memories.
[00:02:32] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. That’s amazing. It may be a good segue into our quote of the show.
[00:02:36] Steve Fretzin: Now this is a be that lawyer first, everybody. This is a verse from a song that Michael feels up is uplifting. And I’m just going to give it to you that I want to hear why, you know, what you love about it and why it’s it’s special to you. Here we go. If you want to make a difference in the world, it means you have to be different from the world you see.
[00:02:55] Steve Fretzin: Free yourself from burdens that you know exist. Don’t carry the curse of the fatalist. Wow. All right. So you guys might have to hear that again, but talk to me about that song and that lyric and why it’s meaningful to you and welcome to the show.
[00:03:10] Michael Oberther: Thank you so much. I’m happy to be here. So that particular lyric and, and many other lyrics from that band are meaningful to me in a way that I didn’t expect, but I’d been listening to them for a while in this particular song and that particular lyric, because what I find in my work, I’m in sales, which we’ll get to, but I meet a lot of successful people.
[00:03:32] Michael Oberther: And what I recognize in most of them is that they have an internal locus of control. They see that they have an effect on their life, the world around them. They choose what they do and how they want to be successful. And when I hear that lyric about setting a vision for yourself, being different from the environment, you might see that you want to change, taking an active role in that change, and also not Allowing yourself to say, well, you know what, if it was meant to be, it would, it would happen that sort of fatalist attitude.
[00:04:04] Michael Oberther: The people I network with tend to make change for themselves. And that’s what that lyric means to me. So I like hearing it. It inspires me at the gym and I’ll keep listening.
[00:04:14] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I mean, there’s a, there’s something to, you know, heavy metal, death metal and all that, where, you know, if you’re looking to work out, it’s probably some pretty.
[00:04:22] Steve Fretzin: You know, pretty good pound heart pounding type of music listen to. And I, my son is into it right now. He’s doing school of rock and he’s just crazy into heavy metal and hair metal and all that. It’s, I hear him jamming in the basement. I just kind of nod my head like, yeah, man, this is. This is going to get interesting.
[00:04:37] Steve Fretzin: Very cool, Michael, you are the director of business development at arc ledge accounting. And we met I’m not trying to remember where we met, but you’re out of New York and do everyone a favor and a solid and just give a little, a little background on kind of how you came to be in working with lawyers.
[00:04:53] Michael Oberther: Yeah. I mean, that’s a long journey. I’ve been in sales for. Going on about 25 years, all in outsourced or fractional business services. We moved to the New York area about 10 years ago and didn’t really have much of a network in place. I had to kind of start from scratch eventually though, through networking, I met my now CEO.
[00:05:12] Michael Oberther: I’ve been working with Naman at ArcLedge for almost eight years now and day one, or, you know, through the interview process, it was made clear to me, Hey, we don’t, we don’t Have real marketing. We don’t do cold calls. It’s all networking base. So you’re going to go network and people will refer you. I’m like, okay, well, I’ll do my best.
[00:05:30] Michael Oberther: We’re in New York City. New York has a ton of attorneys. You certainly, you get out and network in the space, you’re going to meet attorneys. So it’s just kind of a natural extension of where we are geographically that led down that path. The first deal I ever closed with ArcLedge was a solo attorney.
[00:05:44] Michael Oberther: Someone I’m close to, I think the world of, and I’m happy that she’s a client, but yeah, I just extended from there. The work we do with them is fantastic. I think we enjoy them as clients because typically they understand their value, right? There’s work they do is very critical. 10 generally there represent a significant investment from their client’s perspective.
[00:06:02] Michael Oberther: And so they’re looking for a solid team that they can get things done without their I
[00:06:07] Steve Fretzin: mean, it’s a regular occurrence for me to beat up on my clients for delegating to delegate more. And bookkeeping is at the very top of the list of things most lawyers should, or maybe all lawyers shouldn’t be doing and how to automate and how to just really, you know, take the stuff that isn’t 500 an hour work or whatever you’re charging is a rate.
[00:06:29] Steve Fretzin: And you can just, you know, outsourcing it. It’s just like, you’ve got to open up those gaps of time. So I love what you’re up to and You also yeah, tell us a little bit about your marketing activities outside of networking things, things that you’re doing now, podcasting and things like that.
[00:06:42] Michael Oberther: Yeah, I mean, look, the main body of our lead generation comes through networking and I like, I like to find great opportunities like this to be on a good podcast.
[00:06:51] Michael Oberther: That’s, that’s specific to a, to a group of people. It’s very, it’s fun to have the conversation. I think we can drive some value for folks, but it’s twofold, right? Today, we’re going to have a conversation that’s going to deliver value to your listeners, which is amazing. But most of my work as a networker is staying top of mind with my network.
[00:07:08] Michael Oberther: So I’m absolutely going to promote this op, this, this conversation on LinkedIn or any other social media that I use for arc ledge to stay top of mind with people and to say, Hey, look, I’m out here. I’m meeting great people like Steve. We’re serving the legal community. You should check out our conversation.
[00:07:23] Michael Oberther: That’s a big part of. Why I might create content. It’s really less of right now. It’s less about driving traffic to a landing page and it’s more about top of mind awareness and personal branding.
[00:07:35] Steve Fretzin: So let’s start, let’s sort of go through like the the birth and life and continuation of, of networking. So let’s say that there’s a lawyer that’s listening right now that isn’t networking and maybe there has had bad experiences with it.
[00:07:47] Steve Fretzin: But what are some things that you recommend to get ready to network, to prepare to network and, and start growing business that way?
[00:07:55] Michael Oberther: Yeah. If I were a, if I were an attorney who is newer to networking or coming back to networking, I would want to think about two core audiences that I have. As an attorney, right?
[00:08:07] Michael Oberther: The work that attorneys do is very technical and it can’t be right. That’s just the nature of the work. So you have to be prepared to talk to someone like me. I’m in accounting. I’m a salesperson. I have a lot of conversations with attorneys, but if you hit me with technical legal speak, As it relates to what you do, I might understand some of it, but it’s gonna be very difficult for me to recognize opportunities with my clients or with my other networking partners that I could refer to you.
[00:08:35] Michael Oberther: Yeah. Right? So, what I would say is, think about your technical community, that would be your other attorneys, and how would you communicate with them? Then think of how you would explain what you do to a high schooler. That’s how you should be communicating to the general networking group. Usually through stories.
[00:08:54] Michael Oberther: I had, I had some work in this industry. A business was having this challenge. I was able to help them get over that hump. Here’s, here were the details of it. Here’s what they got out of the interaction. Here’s what they’re doing now, that type of thing. Cause that makes it a lot easier for the general population To recognize opportunities, which is the key
[00:09:12] Steve Fretzin: and even lawyers, I think, that are in different areas would prefer it being dumbed down, you know, to high school.
[00:09:18] Steve Fretzin: I’d say third grade level, but that’s okay. That’s just me. And so, you know, I, I talk about, you know, telling stories third party. I also like the idea of Observing and sharing pain points. So, for example, if I’m working with lawyers and I meet with, you know, someone that could refer me, I would say, you know, I’m working with with lawyers who don’t have any background in business development, but need and want to grow their book of business.
[00:09:39] Steve Fretzin: They generally don’t know how to write and create an effective business plan for how they’re going to approach the market. So that’s Kind of resonate with someone says, Oh, Steve helps with business plans. Okay. And then I might say, you know, and they’re, they’re frustrated because they don’t really have processes for how to approach networking and all the different elements that are in business development.
[00:09:59] Steve Fretzin: And the person might think, Oh, he helps people with processes. So as I give those pain points, it might resonate better than me saying, I do this, I do this, I do this, I do this, which I think we know just puts people to sleep.
[00:10:10] Michael Oberther: A hundred percent. Yeah. I fully agree with you. Stories are great. I love stories.
[00:10:14] Michael Oberther: They’re quick. They’re concise. They convey an enormous amount of detail and they’re memorable.
[00:10:19] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so the other preparation point that I would, that I would maybe put out there is think about where the best targets are for you. So for example, if I’m a lawyer in estate planning and I’m going to go to an estate planning Association with the Chicago Bar Association.
[00:10:38] Steve Fretzin: Okay, great. But know that you’re going to be in a room with other estate planners. But if I’m an estate planner, I think I need to meet financial planners. I need to meet CPAs and I need to meet business owners. Where are they? Right. So talk, talk a little bit about selection of where to go.
[00:10:52] Michael Oberther: Yeah. I mean, what you just said right now is definitely the critical piece.
[00:10:58] Michael Oberther: It is, I see it, it’s very common. Oh, I’m a member of this bar association or that, and that’s fantastic, but you got to get out of that, that community a little bit. I think one thing I would add to what you said though, is that you need to think about your end client, right? And the trust in a state world there, I know, I know attorneys who work with what they call like mass affluent, right?
[00:11:20] Michael Oberther: People, upper middle class people, they definitely have assets, you know, and there’s things that they need to be concerned with, but there’s a whole nother level, you know, certainly in the New York, Northern New Jersey area where there’s truly affluent people. They have enormous assets. They need all sorts of work that is much more complicated.
[00:11:38] Michael Oberther: And I know trust and estate attorneys that focus in on that as well. And if that’s the case, right, you mentioned financial planners, well, There are financial planners who work with the general population and then there are financial planners who work with extremely wealthy people and being aware of where you want to be or what your skill set will support and then targeting those networking partners that are already working with those clients is going to serve you a lot better than plan Not putting that thought into it first.
[00:12:06] Michael Oberther: It’s a big, big difference. The other thing is, well, I don’t want to carry on to, I’m going to answer that question and let
[00:12:12] Steve Fretzin: you. Listen, this is all a free flow of, of ideas to, to try to make sure that the lawyers listening right now have, you know, pen and paper out, or unless they’re driving in, like, you know, taking notes and like really thinking about.
[00:12:24] Steve Fretzin: Like what, what are you doing? Well, that’s working. And then what can you take away from a conversation like this where you say, you know what, I am saying, I do this, I do this, I do this and not giving pain points, or I am going to events where basically in a room with my competitors versus like being in a room as an estate planner where you want to work with millionaires.
[00:12:42] Steve Fretzin: Where are those millionaires? Are they at charities? Are they on boards? Are they at the local private clubs playing sports and golf and things like that? Like, how am I going to get in a room with those people or the connectors to those people? That’s really the two types of events or groups that you want to target and focus on.
[00:12:59] Steve Fretzin: You’re dealing with high end people and you’re dealing with the CPA who’s working with ma and pa, You know, local Joe’s on the street. That’s not going to be as good as people who work with, with business owners and that have significant a hundred person companies, they’re going to obviously be much more affluent.
[00:13:14] Michael Oberther: A hundred percent true. I would say that the big differentiator for success and getting in front of the right networking partners is thinking about your ask, right? So if you and I are networking and I’m trying to go up market, right? My ask has to be specific. And my ask might sound like I’m really looking to meet financial advisors who work with high net worth people.
[00:13:39] Michael Oberther: The type of T and E work that I do is really best received by family wealth, generational wealth. People who have experienced a, a, a giant liquidity event, maybe they sold a business for 50 to a hundred million dollars. And I’m really good at helping them protect that money as part of an overall financial advisory team.
[00:14:02] Michael Oberther: Right. And being able to articulate that and ask for the introductions like that will help those people know, Hey, you know what? There’s not much I can do for you, which is fine. Or, Hey, you know what? I don’t know a lot of people in that space, but I do have a friend. He’s a financial advisor and he worked, you know, his minimum is 10 million in investable assets.
[00:14:19] Michael Oberther: Maybe he’s a good place or she is a good place for you to go. And then you repeat that ask again, because that person then will have other people that they network with. That’s the only way to get in front of the right people. You have, your ask has to be super tight
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[00:15:25] Steve Fretzin: com and apply for membership today. Well, and what you’re bringing up, most people don’t think about, but I’m going to put a title to it or a new or a word to it that I think will resonate with people as we’re talking is you’re qualifying. You’re not meeting with everyone. There are people that you can qualify, don’t deal in the same world that you’re in.
[00:15:47] Steve Fretzin: So they’re not going to be someone you need to meet with dozens of times. There’s someone that you met with. They don’t have a direct connection for you for business, but they know someone that, that is more in your space. Can they just make that one time connection to you, to the person that deals with 10 million A dollar net worth folks and make that introduction of that person might be the one that’s qualified for you to stick with and hang with and and network with on a more consistent basis.
[00:16:15] Steve Fretzin: So I think sharing the intention who and what you’re looking for to get them qualified in or out. Is going to be at the heart of, of how we invest our time wisely.
[00:16:26] Michael Oberther: Absolutely. I, I absolutely agree with you. I would say, depending on your strategy and networking though, especially if you’re a newer networker, right?
[00:16:34] Michael Oberther: We use the example early on here, someone who has had some bad experiences or maybe isn’t getting results. Be careful over qualifying before you have the conversation. You never know who they know. You can start with a 30 minute conversation and really kind of put the pieces together. If they’re a good long term networking partner for you, but you each may have a very relevant intro.
[00:16:55] Michael Oberther: And then maybe that’s all, either of you get out of that relationship, but that can be very powerful just the same.
[00:17:00] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I would say to some degree it’s time based. I start off my book, the attorney’s networking handbook with saying no one has Wasted more time networking than I have. And I, and I, I joke about it because I was meeting with the local Avon lady.
[00:17:14] Steve Fretzin: I was meeting with the Amway salesman. I was meeting with a PR company that wanted 10, 000 a month, just to, and I’m like a startup one person thing. I’m like, it was like a two and a half hour meeting. I just want to kill myself. Like I couldn’t, I wanted to do it. It sounded great. I’m going to get in Forbes, you know, but give me a break.
[00:17:29] Steve Fretzin: Like, you know, I’m a nobody in, in, you know, Highland park in Deerfield, Illinois, starting up a coaching, you know, business. But I had the time in that moment. I had the time to meet with everybody. And one of my largest clients came from someone who was selling nutritional products. So I never would have gotten that very large client at an, however, there are attorneys that are billing, you know, 40, 50, 60 hours a week or whatever.
[00:17:52] Steve Fretzin: And if they want to be in a position to be strategic, you’re going to miss out on, on some things, but you’re going to maybe gain more by being strategic. So I think it’s time based a little bit, Michael, you think, does that make sense?
[00:18:05] Michael Oberther: It absolutely makes sense. I mean, it’s funny because one of my first large deals came to me through someone who sold through an MLM health products.
[00:18:15] Michael Oberther: Okay. So absolutely. I’m on board with that. You know, so if we go back to the example of an attorney, that’s getting back to networking, the question in my mind would be, well, are you, New attorney, or are you new in your own business as an attorney? And do you have the time to do a little bit more volume?
[00:18:33] Michael Oberther: That doesn’t actually mean it makes sense to do more volume, but do you have the time versus, do you have a great client base? Do you have great recurring clients? You know, everyone’s on retainer and you’re doing what you do. Then maybe you don’t need to have that broad approach because you already have some success.
[00:18:47] Michael Oberther: You’re just looking to build on that and having a more. Laser focus, strategic approach may be appropriate for you. Most people that are new to networking though, there is some benefit to having a broad range of resources that you can use for a variety of issues in your business or your clients needs.
[00:19:05] Michael Oberther: So there’s some value to it, but yeah, like you said, if, if I’m billing out at a thousand dollars an hour, I mean, I want to waste 30 minutes on a bummer of an one to one.
[00:19:13] Steve Fretzin: Right. Right. And I think, you know, you and I both recognize that. There are a lot of attorneys that are networking with other attorneys as a way to, to develop business.
[00:19:24] Steve Fretzin: I’m doing transactional legal work, not litigation. So when something comes around and my clients call me and say, Hey, I need someone to help. I’m being sued. You need to have some people on speed dial to, to get them to. So let’s take a minute and just give some tips to attorneys that want to focus or have been focusing on the attorney to attorney networking and, and let’s, let’s kind of go back and forth and give some thoughts there.
[00:19:46] Michael Oberther: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m going to share an example. I’m sure this will bring up some questions for you, but I do run an event and it’s called it’s legal and it’s attorney only networking. And you know, when we launched it, I was like, what’s going to be like when two attorneys of the same Skillset meet.
[00:20:05] Michael Oberther: What is that? What is what happens in that situation? And I, in our second event, I had two IP attorneys. I knew, I knew they were IP attorneys. I saw them sort of coming together and I’m like, all right, let’s pay attention. And it was interesting because they’re like, Oh, I’m an IP attorney too. Right. And so they talked about, they talked a little shop, which was cool.
[00:20:22] Michael Oberther: But what I saw happen, it was very interesting was that as they got more specific about their individual work. They found the nuances, the places where they could fit together. Oh, well, I focus more in these areas. And the other attorney was focused in a different, like maybe one was in textiles and one did more worked with celebrities or models, that type of thing.
[00:20:43] Michael Oberther: So they both had their own individual expertise. So what did I learn from this? Two things. One, You meet an attorney, they do the same thing as you have the conversation. You’re likely to find some areas where you can work with each other. And those same people are the best at identifying opportunities for you.
[00:21:02] Michael Oberther: So you may be risking lower volume of referrals, but the referrals those people make will be rock solid. And the chance that you’re going to close that deal is extremely high. So don’t be afraid if someone’s appears to do exactly the same work as you initially.
[00:21:18] Steve Fretzin: Well, not in and then add into, you know, potential conflicts, especially with, you know, bigger firm and mid market attorneys that, you know, they’re just, they can’t work with this client, but they know you’re, you might do the same thing, but, but they just know they can’t work with this company.
[00:21:31] Steve Fretzin: They’ve got to turn it over to someone they trust and you’re that person. Right. And then there’s also the rate pressures. So meeting with, you know, big firm attorneys as a mid market or a small firm might sound counter intuitive or productive because, Hey, they do what I do. But you know what? They’re charging a thousand an hour.
[00:21:48] Steve Fretzin: They’ve got conflicts everywhere. And if they had in, in the deals you are going to get, if they hand them down, you could be significant. So there’s a number of reasons to, you know, network with quote unquote, your competitors, right? Because you never know what you’re going to find. But then I think there’s also something to be said about, about finding the two or three attorneys that are sort of in your same sphere of that they have the same, they have the same clients you have, but just do things a little different.
[00:22:17] Steve Fretzin: Right. And there, there’s definitely synergies between certain practice areas. Do you speak to that for a moment?
[00:22:24] Michael Oberther: I mean, you said it all.
[00:22:25] Steve Fretzin: Nah, I’m, I’m killing you. No, I can speak to it. I’m
[00:22:29] Michael Oberther: taking all the heat. It’s, it’s. It’s true across many industries. I know this is a law focus podcast where you keep it law related, but I see it myself in the accounting space.
[00:22:38] Michael Oberther: You know, we’re, we’re bookkeepers and controllers. I routinely network with my competitors. Why? Because we get clients who are not appropriate for us for one reason or another. There are always some specific need that a client will have that you’re just not prepared to manage, and that’s okay, as long as you have a terrific resource.
[00:22:59] Michael Oberther: I think it comes down to being open minded, and sometimes that comes from experience in networking, so if you’re a newer networker, Think about just staying open minded when you meet someone who appears to do exactly what you do, because you just never know. And I would say from the service provider side of things, if you’re the one referring your client out to a competitor, it’s an enormous value to that client.
[00:23:20] Michael Oberther: They’re never going to forget you. They’re going to appreciate that you went ahead and did that or had that resource. It’s extremely powerful.
[00:23:26] Steve Fretzin: And similar to what you do with lawyers and other CPAs and people that, that just lawyers need to think about what are the two or three practice areas that are maybe most synergistic.
[00:23:37] Steve Fretzin: So if you take someone in estate planning and you take someone that’s doing big, big, big law litigation, and it’s a small town, you know, estate planner, that, that may not be the most synergistic. But if you talk about soft IP and patent and soft IP and, and M and A and startups and, and, and, and, and, and transactional, these are the kinds of synergies where there’s just more like there’s, there’s a greater likelihood that.
[00:24:08] Steve Fretzin: Things are going to come across their desk that could be valuable, and they just don’t do it, and then they’ve got you again on speed dial, and you’re getting 5, 10, 15 matters a year from one individual, and geez, can I replicate that and maybe get 5 or 10 matters from more people within that space?
[00:24:25] Michael Oberther: Absolutely. I often think of that situation as being upstream or downstream. Meaning, who’s the attorney a business person’s going to call first? And where do you, when, when that, like if it’s corporate attorney, a set up my LLC or my corporation or so on and so forth. Oh, by the way, I need to get my logo registered.
[00:24:44] Michael Oberther: I need to do some IP work. What comes next? And who are those? Where are you in that chain of value? Who’s before you? Who’s after you? That’s a big area where you should be focused because that’s going to be where you’re, you know, Clients are going to expect you to have resources and that’s where, like you said, you may be able to get multiple matters per year.
[00:25:03] Steve Fretzin: So again, if we’re looking at this from a time savings perspective, what we’re talking about is, is you can go out and network with everybody and there’s value in building your network. wide. Okay. But if we really want to get the business where it’s going to be repeatable, multiple matters a year, it’s really about qualifying the practice area, the people that have similar clients, the people that have you know, businesses where, where their clients have needs that they don’t, that they can’t handle.
[00:25:30] Steve Fretzin: And who are they going to send it to? It’s going somewhere. Is it going to you? That’s the question. So yeah, let’s wrap this up with with any final tips, like what’s the best, like one tip you would, that you do or that you, that you would tell it to an attorney that we haven’t covered yet. Just one final tip that you go, damn, this is, this is a rock solid thing that I do that really works.
[00:25:50] Michael Oberther: The main thing that I do that really works when I meet somebody who is in a particular industry, I get them talking first. I don’t care who they are, attorney account, whatever. I want to get them talking first. I want to ask what industries do you focus in on? Or where is the main body of your business coming from?
[00:26:07] Michael Oberther: That gives me the opportunity when it is my turn to share, to tailor my conversation directly back. To the industries that they serve, it helps them recognize that I’m someone they can network with refer to, and it creates a much stronger memory for them so that I can stay top of mind because they feel that we are in the same place serving the same crowd.
[00:26:30] Michael Oberther: I have uncovered fantastic introductions using that I have gotten referrals for business in a first one to one conversation using that technique and it can be very powerful if done correctly.
[00:26:42] Steve Fretzin: Really great. Well, let’s let’s, let’s end on that high note and talk about our game changing podcast today, which is real as.
[00:26:49] Steve Fretzin: Real AF. So tell us about that podcast. Cause it sounds like something I got to check out.
[00:26:55] Michael Oberther: I, okay. So the person who hosts that podcast, his name is Andy Frazella. He’s a very successful entrepreneur in in Missouri. He owns a large supplement company. And he runs a, he has a coaching program and he does a motivational speaking and business speaking all over the country.
[00:27:13] Michael Oberther: His podcast is high energy. He pulls zero punches, right? He does call people out for where they’re maybe not working as hard as they could, or they’re wasting their time or energy on the wrong things, or they’re just not focused enough. He has a large. A lot of his messages on being healthy, having a good diet, getting enough sleep, keeping your energy up because business business is hard.
[00:27:34] Michael Oberther: Fitness does matter and that’s I find him to be very motivational personally and I spent a lot of time listening to him. I was turned on to him a couple years ago by a good buddy. His name is Jeff and I haven’t looked back since I listened pretty much. To every show basically.
[00:27:50] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I, you know, I tell people selfishly, I asked this question because I want to get turned on a new podcast, but I think it’s also fun for people to hear what everyone else is either listening to a reading.
[00:28:00] Steve Fretzin: And so that’s, that’s a great one. Hey, as we wrap up, Michael want to thank our sponsors, of course, rankings IO. And if you’re wondering what they do, they are helping you not just get found on Google, but actually get clients like they are a top, top tip of the spear. And in helping, you know, lawyers in law firms get found.
[00:28:18] Steve Fretzin: So check them out, rankings. io. And of course the Rainmakers round table. If you’re a top Rainmaker, if you’re a managing partner and your job is to feed the, feed your troops. You need to keep up on that. So part of it is getting me as your coach. And the other part of it is being in a room with 10, 12 other top Rainmakers to share ideas, to talk about challenges, overcome them, and just be accountable and have a family away from your firm that you can really confide in.
[00:28:44] Steve Fretzin: So check out that on Fretzin com and Michael, if people want to get in touch with you, they want to hear more about ArcLedge accounting. What are the best ways for them to to find you?
[00:28:54] Michael Oberther: The best way to find me is on LinkedIn. You can search Michael a little bit there. There’s like two in America, so I will come up.
[00:29:01] Michael Oberther: That’s the best place to go. Our website is arc ledge. com and you can learn about our company. You can reach me through there via email. I’m always open for a conversation.
[00:29:12] Steve Fretzin: And you know, Michael, right away when you and I met on a few weeks ago, we immediately started networking together. We immediately started connecting our clients and connecting our, you know, people that we, that we engage with.
[00:29:23] Steve Fretzin: So you practice what you preach, which is, which is very important to me and, and, and, and kind of buying into someone and, and wanting to continue the conversation. So I appreciate you appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your wisdom.
[00:29:36] Michael Oberther: Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity, Steve. It was awesome.
[00:29:38] Michael Oberther: Thank you.
[00:29:38] Steve Fretzin: Good collaboration. And thank you everybody for spending time with Michael and I today on the Be That Lawyer with Fretzin podcast, always working to help get you ideas and things that are going to benefit you in being that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker.
[00:29:51] Steve Fretzin: Take care. Everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll talk again.
[00:29:58] Narrator: Thanks for listening To be that Lawyer life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin.com For additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.