Nancy Fox: Networking Business Development and the Future of Rainmaking in Law

Steve Fretzin  [00:00]

Everybody, if you want no fluff and just Straight talk from me, my new show be that lawyer Coaches Corner is up and live I share the same tools and strategies that I use every day with lawyers to grow successful, sustainable practices. We’ve already got episodes up, so check it out. Be that lawyer Coaches Corner with Steve Fretzin, and by the way, enjoy the show today.

 

Narrator  [00:22]

You You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, Hey everybody,

 

Steve Fretzin  [00:45]

welcome back. It’s Steve Fretzin, and this is the be that lawyer podcast. We are everything about helping attorneys, bro, the successful practice that they’ve always dreamed of. And I’m just so happy that you’re here, if you haven’t been checking it out, we also have be that lawyer Coach’s Corner to give you some more direct advice and tips. I’ve got a YouTube channel, five books and a lot of other stuff too. Just type my name into Google, see what happens. I dare you. Anyway. I want to welcome you to the show and and I’m really excited to have this guest, Nancy. You’ve been an amazing sort of support me. We met not that long ago through Matt Kirbys, right, yes. And you’ve been like a super supporter of mine already on LinkedIn and everything, I’ve just been like, wow, there’s Nancy again, just, you know, adding in her two cents. And it’s just been really wonderful, as I’m just thrilled to have you on

 

Nancy Fox  [01:30]

the show. I’m just really honored that you invited me, because I like your content so much. And I just, you know, it’s very interesting, because when you hear about somebody you don’t really know until you actually meet them, and there was a connection right away. So I’m so I’m so happy to be able to support you.

 

Steve Fretzin  [01:43]

Yeah, and no surprise that Mr. Kerbis set us up. He’s one of the great connectors and a good friend of mine and a neighbor less. So now I moved about 15 minutes away from him, but that wasn’t intentional about him. Hey everybody, we’ve got a great show we’re going to get to. I mean, if you want to really take a deep dive into business development and best practices and how to, you know, really do it with strategy and thought and tactics and planning. That’s, you know, this is not going to be about winging it in a random acts of marketing. This is going to be getting into the weeds on best practices. And, of course, we have to start with our quote of the show, which I love to do, how not if so, welcome to the show again. And then talk to us a little bit about that very short but powerful quote,

 

Nancy Fox  [02:22]

yeah, thanks, Steve. When I first started my business, it was a mind shift that needed to happen first, and there were so many millions of reasons about why it couldn’t work and all of that. And I found the same thing happening with my clients too. They had so many concerns, and it was a lot of mind trash that was really preventing them. So I needed to have something that I could share with them that would get them out of all of that, you know, deliberation and concerns and all of the excuses and how not if, became the way to explain it. In other words, this is not about if you can do it. This is about we’re going to only focus on how to get it done, but we’re going to find the way, and that be, sort of became an easy way to help not only myself, but my clients too.

 

Steve Fretzin  [03:04]

Yeah, and I think that, like you’re saying, there’s so many different reasons to not take action because I’m busy, right? I have billable hours, I have a family of all these things. And then, you know, hey, I’m a 35 year old service partner. And then guess what? Now I’m a 50 year old service partner. Well, why? Because of if, right, and just putting things off year after year. And you know this show, I know the listeners. They’re not that. Those people, you know, the people who listen to this show, are action takers, and they’re interested in growth, and that’s why I’m so fortunate to have such an amazing audience. And so let’s dive into it, everybody. Nancy Fox, CEO of wyz rainmakers, and give us a little background on how you came to be and how you ended up in this space working with law firms.

 

Nancy Fox  [03:44]

Well, it’s really interesting, you know, sort of it was never in my field of vision that that was what was going to happen. I had a really good friend who was a she was the marketing director, and her boss was the VP of Marketing for CMO of a law firm, a big law firm, here in California. And she was complaining a lot about their lawyers not losing deals. And I said, you know, I work with people on business development, why don’t we explore further? And she said, Well, we really need to get on the call with my boss and everything. So the three of us would get on these calls. And these calls went on for about a month, and I would have all these directions and ideas and strategies, and there was always a Yeah, but, a Yeah, but. And they were working with a lot of these big, you know, strategists and rainmaking experts, but it would get nowhere. And finally, I said, you know, why don’t you do this? I was living in New York at the time they I said, Why don’t you bring me in for a day? And all I’m going to do is I’m going to meet with every single person, every single lawyer in the practice group. It was the real estate practice. Estate practice group, and I’ll talk to I’ll just ask them questions, and I’ll talk to them, and if they want to hire me, great if they don’t, at least you got, you’re going to get some strategies and ideas, whether you ever engage me or not. And to a person, they all say, Yeah, let’s bring her in. And that’s where it began. I started working with a very big law firm here. In California. They opened other offices in New York. So then I started working with the New York office, and I started working with a lot of lawyers at different stages of their careers. Some were new associates, or, you know, they wanted to be promoted, and others were senior partners. Would just come into the firm, and they had big goals that they had to hit. So it just began that way, yeah,

 

Steve Fretzin  [05:21]

and then one thing leads to another. I mean, I’m sort of similar and never seen sort of the path for legal. And working in legal, worked in over 50 industries other than legal. And again, when I it took the recession of 2008 to kind of pull me in, because lawyers started coming out of the woodwork. And look, I’m not trying to put fear in anybody’s minds, but I think about 2008 I think about what’s going on right now in the world, and maybe that’s a good lead into our conversation today, because you know, there are service attorneys that just do everyone’s work, and they might be happy, and they might be doing fine right now. Do you see that lack of concern as a concern for you?

 

Nancy Fox  [06:00]

So I think that anytime that there is a contraction or a big change in the market, that there is a lot of concern and danger ahead. You know, look at it that. But there’s also job opportunity. A lot of people got extremely successful out of the 2008 910, recession. And so I’m looking at ways for my clients to actually take advantage of what’s going on the but we’re the only thing that’s really different about this time is that there’s so much uncertainty. In other words, there’s a lot of sort of mercurial right now. You know things are going every day is a different story, and that’s a little challenging, and that means that people need to be a lot more agile. Agility is not necessarily what lawyers are trained in. Very few people are, but being agile and being flexible is something that I think all of us really need to look at. And it’s those of us who can, you know, pivot a little bit or strategically look at opportunities differently. I think that’s going to help a huge amount. Plus, I think we’re living with AI and AI is just, we don’t know a lot. There’s going to be a shakeout in AI too. So we need to be prepared for that as well. And I

 

Steve Fretzin  [07:11]

guess I’m leaning into this idea that you know you need to be your best advocate. And again, if you have your own clients, you have your own business. What this show is all about. Be that lawyer. You have a real opportunity to be successful in difficult times and pivot and be agile. To your point. The other side of it is if you’re relying on the five partners that feed you, and that’s where your hours come from, and you really have no control over your career the firm trajectory. You know, again, that’s your call. And I can only tell you from my experience in 2008 of why I got into this is that people lost their jobs, and people are losing their job. I’m interviewing someone on the podcast that worked for the federal government, and is it, you know, in house, and guess what? She’s had to pivot and figure it out. And it ain’t easy. And there’s a lot of people on the street right now that are looking for work, but let’s get into the people that are making efforts to really, you know, kind of choose their own luck and their own path. So what are some of the top mistakes that lawyers are making when they decide that it’s time and that they’re actively going to build their practice? Where are they kind of missing the boat?

 

Nancy Fox  [08:15]

Well, I think the first mistake is, and by the way, to your very point, I think that that is you’re absolutely right that I think if you’re dependent on other people for your income and for your livelihood, it’s very dangerous. And I think that a lot of lawyers, you know, it’s a knee jerk reaction. It’s like, where should I network? Where, who should I How am I going to get referrals? It’s knee jerk. So they ask their friends and where should I network? And very often, there’s no strategy behind it, so they’ll join a networking group, or they’ll join a networking program, or they’ll go out to different events without any strategy about who they really need to be meeting. So the whole idea that I think is really important is think about who your decision makers are and where are they congregating. Way more than just join the nearest or the most or the less, least expensive networking effort. That’s another mistake I think a lot of people make, is they join, they’ll become a member of the least expensive networking organization they can because they don’t want to invest in it, and that that’s actually the antithesis of what they should be doing. You need to go exactly where your people are congregating. If you’re going to a contra, if you’re in the medical device intellectual property arena, you want to be going where your intellectual property companies are going. And if that’s going to cost you 6000 bucks to go to a conference, do it because out of that, you’re going to meet the actual decision makers. Now it’s that strategy takes some confidence, take some belief in yourself, but I would rather spend $6,000 where my people are really going, than $2,500 a year on a hope and a prayer.

 

Steve Fretzin  [09:46]

Yeah, well, let me add to what you’re saying, because I think you know you’re spot on. The issue is there are lawyers that spend the 6000 they go for three, four days, they listen everything. They don’t really know what they’re doing, and then they come back $6,000 light. Her, and they picked up a CLE or two. So I think it’s a combination of choosing where the people are and then focusing on the contents being created by you and I, and engaging with coaches or even mentors to say, Hey, I’m going to a conference. I’m spending $6,000 How do I plan for that? How do I execute when I’m there? How do I follow through, because if you miss any of those three things, you know, you’re gonna basically, you know, burn the money that you just spent. So I think there’s more to it than you were kind of starting at the beginning, but I and I get what you’re saying, but maybe give a little more meat on the bone there.

 

Nancy Fox  [10:35]

Yeah, that’s a real I’m glad you’re so step one is, where are they going? And then preparing and prepping before you go, how to meet, how to set yourself up to meet your decision makers before you ever actually set foot in the door. Yeah, there’s a whole strategy around that, where you can actually learn about who’s going to be attending, who’s going to be speaking, who’s the program director, who is the I mean, where the people who are organizing these events. They can become your friends and connector connections before you ever walk in the door. Yeah. You can even look at past events to see who’s attended and learn who was who went, and connect with them before. So many different cool ways to meet people and set yourself up with meetings so that when you’re there, you can set up coffee dates and drink dates with people before you ever walk in the door.

 

Steve Fretzin  [11:22]

Yeah, but if so, is that the number one mistake is that they’re not targeting where their people are and going there? Or is there something bigger that you would say is like the number one mistake lawyers make in not building business or not growing their law practice?

 

Nancy Fox  [11:38]

Well, I think you know, I don’t know if this is I would call this mistake Steve. I would say that is a very common thinking approach, very common approach, and that is depending 100% on referrals. Yeah, it’s everybody wants referrals. That’s what most rain making programs are focused on, how to get referrals, how to build your referral circle. I’m all for that. But if you it’s like having an undiversified portfolio of your investment. So if you’re only focusing on referrals, you’re depending on other people to have the power in your practice. So I really am a firm believer in having that balanced portfolio of referral sources, of the right people, and then building your own portfolio of decision makers who know you, who love you, who trust you, have confidence in you and spread the word about you and work with you and hire you.

 

Steve Fretzin  [12:24]

So the big argument that lawyers are going to have, and again, as you said, Mind trash. I call it head trash. Where, exactly where you and I are, two peas in a pod. It’s look. I’ve done this before. I’ve been to networking events, I’ve attended conferences. I’ve tried networking. It didn’t really work. So I’m just not going to bother, right? I’m just gonna stay the course and just do my bill, my hours, and go home and see my family, which I totally get. Nobody wants to spend more time with their family than this guy, however, and then you can go from there.

 

Nancy Fox  [12:52]

Well, you know, I’m a perfect example, personally. I mean, I was the worst networker ever. I didn’t know how to do it. I was scared to death. And I know I didn’t have a, you know, any credentials behind me, other than for my first, my previous industry, which had nothing to do with what I was going to be working with, lawyers at all. The first event I ever went to with professional with a lot, you know, was a legal marketing conference. And then I went to accounting conferences. I remember walking and going, what am I doing here? And I just started asking. I really started working the room by learning how to ask the right questions, and once you started asking the right questions, that people started listening, it really made a huge difference, because people started to actually engage in communications. That made sense to me was we started to build relationships. But this is what it took, you know, and this is what I want to share with people. I remember the first event that I went into where I actually changed my paradigm before I walked in, I said, I’m going to completely clear my mind of anything about myself. And I said, I’m only going to focus on every single person and just listen to them. And it took away a lot of my fear. It took away a lot of my self consciousness, and I started to really have fabulous conversations with people, and people gave me their business cards and me having to ask them for it. So I think that if you learn how to take yourself out of the equation first, which is not easy to do, I’m not saying it was easy, especially for people who are professionals, who are highly skilled professionals, like lawyers and other professionals you’ve been trained in being the smartest person in the room and being a perfectionist. It’s hard to divorce yourself of that thinking, but it helps. It takes your confidence to a whole new level. Yeah, if people want to talk to you, yeah.

 

Steve Fretzin  [14:34]

So I think what you’re saying is it’s not just about being proactive. It’s also about the mindset and the mind shift of it’s not about you, right? It’s about people you’re talking to and engaging with. And again, the more people that you talk to and ask questions, the more they may like you and want to then you learn more, right? You learn who I should continue talking with, and maybe you know who I shouldn’t.

 

Nancy Fox  [14:54]

And they’ll tell you their problems too, and problems are the thing that actually lead people to engage you well.

 

Steve Fretzin  [15:00]

That and how you can help them, even if they don’t engage them, right? Somebody says they need a CPA. Well, I’m not a CPA. I’m not going to sell them CPA services. But, geez, if I get them in front of a good CPA and they’re happy, right? That’s going to reflect positively, absolutely.

 

Nancy Fox  [15:14]

Being a connector is something that, you know, we hear a lot about it, but actually doing it effectively. You know, I’ve had a lot of people be connectors that send me a lot of people that have very little relevance to what,

 

Steve Fretzin  [15:28]

oh God, let’s not, I don’t know if we should go down that rabbit hole, because you’ll, you’ll get me going. You will get me going. Yeah.

 

Nancy Fox  [15:34]

But my point is that if you become a connector where you’re really being strategic about it, and you introduce the right people to each other. You become such a such a valued person in someone’s network. They want it to you. They love hanging out with you. Yeah.

 

Steve Fretzin  [15:56]

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Nancy Fox  [18:45]

In fact, I the very I’m so glad you brought this up, Steve, because I just sent a message to one of my lawyer colleagues, because I have somebody that I want him to meet, but he knows somebody in that same you know sector, and I don’t want to send her to him until I get his permission, and I just did that, so I’m waiting to hear back from him to your very point. You can really waste a well, you can make, you can irritate people unintentionally. Good point, yeah.

 

Steve Fretzin  [19:14]

So it’s not, you know, crazy. It’s just a matter of, you know, maybe sometimes coaching people to, you know, who you want to meet. And again, if they send you an introduction, and the introduction isn’t spot on, you know, just okay. So here we go. You ready? I’m gonna this is legit. I just pulled this up. This is an email I wrote to someone recently. Thank you for the kind introduction, or thoughtful introduction to Michael. I’ll follow up with him this morning. If you wouldn’t mind, please run all email intros by me first before making them directly. Business is strong, and I don’t always have time to network or help folks being sent my way. I’m really focused only meeting with prospective clients and high profile rainmakers. Again. Appreciate you and your networking prowess. Help the family as well. So I’m not being mean about it. Right? I’m being pretty diplomatic, but I’m also coaching him a little bit subtly, saying, you’re the best however, you know, let’s do this a little differently, because you just don’t know what’s going on with me behind the scenes.

 

Nancy Fox  [20:12]

I love the way you phrase that we are so we think very much alike, and we, you know, this is a connecting of the dots. Kind of plastic. You have to sort of think it through before you just throw people at other people. And intuitions might be right, but we are very busy, and we do want to meet the right people that. So I’m very much of the right people mindset, just the way you are,

 

Steve Fretzin  [20:33]

yeah, and again, but part of this is, you know, just understanding strategies and understanding networking best practices. And the thing that I would say, and lawyers that are listening to this have heard me say, maybe a nauseam is become a student of the game, I mean, the way that you’re doing things now. All right, you said earlier that no one was a worse networker than you. I would argue that maybe I was, and I started my book on networking saying no one has wasted more time networking than this guy, but we’re not the same, five years, 10 years, 20 years later than we were, right? Why? Well, because we became students of the game. We listened to people, we went to presentations, we listened to books on tape, we listened we did all this stuff to be in a position to continue to get better. And I don’t know that lawyers are doing that at the level they should.

 

Nancy Fox  [21:20]

You know, that’s an interesting point. I think lawyers do have to a lot of learning through they need CLE. They have to constantly keep developing themselves, but they do it. Mostly they do it in their legal practice. Yes, when it comes to relationship building and decision and building a business development, it’s a choice for them, right? Not everybody is required to be a rainmaker, but if you that’s something that you want, then you have to actually learn how to do that, because that’s not something any of us. I didn’t go to school in sales, and they now teach it in law school, and they’re not teaching it in college, so you got to learn it. And if you’re not going to learn it the right way, then it’s going to actually, you know, influence your business

 

Steve Fretzin  [22:00]

you’re worried about time, and then you’re going to just basically throw away your time doing things ineffectively. Then are you really care about your time? And that’s the question. So let’s give a Let’s go. Let’s just give two or three really good tips on, maybe where they should spend their time, how they should spend their time, and how did lawyers sort of figure out what their jam should be, because they’re speaking and writing and networking, and it goes on and on and on, but that may be overwhelming.

 

Nancy Fox  [22:28]

Okay, so this, I was just going to say, here’s a tip. Another, here’s my another one of my phrases. It’s DCA, daily consistent activity. But daily consistent activity in rainmaking or business development is 15 minutes. I do, I believe in 15 minute chunks. So 15 minutes a day, you send a few emails to people who are either in your referral circle or people you’ve met at networking and you want to follow up with them, or you want to just build a relationship, because you think they might have, they might be really good. They have a good circle of influence. Those are good people, even if it’s just 15 minutes a day, another 15 minutes can be just right. You don’t even have to do posting, by the way, on LinkedIn, all you need to do is follow the right people and comment on their

 

Steve Fretzin  [23:11]

posts, and we’re back where we started. That’s how you you got going with me. I was like, oh, macro Nancy’s everywhere.

 

Nancy Fox  [23:17]

I like your but I think it’s also a very cost of time, effective way to do this, and it spreads the word. And then you can add your own post so but 15 minutes a day, a little maybe Monday, Wednesday and Friday. You do, you know, emails and Tuesdays and Thursdays. You’re doing comments on other people’s posts, or maybe doing posting one day. You know, you have sort of a strategy around it where it’s not taking this enormous chunk of your time. If you do it in bite sized pieces like it, you can do an awful lot in 15 minutes.

 

Steve Fretzin  [23:48]

Yeah, no, Agreed. Agreed. And I think you want to consider what you enjoy, where you feel, there might be value in the time spent, and what’s going to maybe be something you can do consistently. Because, again, back to the beginning, you know, consistency. And so if you feel like you can do LinkedIn and post and comment and do it that 15 minutes, three days a week, make that your jam. Make that your thing. If, like, I’m presenting more now, like in the next two months, you know that I have all year and conferences and all this stuff, and you know, I love that. I don’t, you know, I don’t do enough of it, but because I’m not a big, huge fan of travel, like I try to limit how much I travel for business. But I’m going to make the absolute best of it, and I’m going to enjoy it, and I’m going to build a lot of relationships, and I’m going to hopefully change some lives and stuff like that. So I think, how do you how do lawyer, how in your mind, do lawyers figure out what they should be doing in that 15 minute segment.

 

Nancy Fox  [24:43]

So you just brought up something so important that I want to underscore too, what you will enjoy. Like, I noticed you do a lot of video, right? I’m a much better writer than I am a videoer. I don’t really love, you know, video as much as I like writing. So I found that I could, you know, do some, maybe do some. Um, carousels on LinkedIn. And I do mostly writing. So if you’re a lawyer and you and you like getting on camera, you can just literally get your camera and start, you know, sharing a tip here and there. Boom, done five it’s even five minutes. And it doesn’t have to be perfect, because people don’t expect these fully produced videos anymore. That’s not necessary anymore. You find what you love, and so I think you just sort of sit down and strategize it either alone, it’s harder to do alone. I personally feel like we get more if we collaborate with somebody, we kick it around, having a, you know, either an accountability partner, or maybe you have a mastermind group that you want to I know you have a mastermind group. I would kick it around with your colleagues about what’s really right, but do what you love, what feels good for you, and then find your thing, and you will,

 

Steve Fretzin  [25:46]

yeah, and maybe even take some time to just talk at chat GBT or AI, to say, look, you know, I’m a lawyer. This is what I do. I’m looking to grow my law practice. I hate speaking, I hate video, but I really enjoy writing, and I’m trying to like it, could maybe give you some thoughts and some ideas back about what some of the lawyers who feel the same way or act the same way that you do what they’re doing. And again, depending on the prompts, you might get some pretty interesting feedback.

 

Nancy Fox  [26:13]

Well, that’s very I, over the last year, I’ve been developing custom gpts for different aspects of business development, and my main guy is Leo. I created Leo, and he’s got all of my stuff in there. So if, let’s say, you want to do a speaking circuit just for certain kinds of conferences or just for certain kinds of regional events, Leo can actually find them. Leo can find the program directors. Can find who is making the decisions. How much this stuff, how much these events cost, whether you need to even be a member. I mean, there’s a lot that can be researched that you don’t took. Used to take, you know, days and weeks to figure all this stuff out, but now we can do it in like 30 seconds. So I think you’re absolutely right.

 

Steve Fretzin  [26:56]

Awesome, awesome. I will. I know how fast time has gone. It’s crazy, but let’s talk about Nancy’s big mistake. All right, lay it out. What happened

 

Nancy Fox  [27:04]

when you when I knew that you were going to ask me this question, I made a decision to leave my corporate career. Well, actually, I was thinking about it. I had been in a long term executive career, and I loved my industry, but it changed a lot, and I thought about becoming a coach, and I actually signed up for a course at the time. This is how long ago it was the main how to become a coach course by Thomas Leonard, who was, he was the founder of the whole thing. And then I signed up for it, and then I got nervous, and I gave it so it was two years later, two years, and I wasted those two years because I could have gotten a head start. It was like a, you know, it wasn’t a killer, but it definitely delayed me, and I it took a lot to actually get the courage to go off on my own and put my own shingle out. And I’m so I can’t imagine what life would be like if I didn’t do that. There were certainly a lot of other mistakes, you know, but I think that’s the one that I think was really just demonstrates how easy it is to convince yourself out of what should be your direction.

 

Steve Fretzin  [28:06]

Yeah, well, I’m gonna glad that you were able to pull the courage to do it and fulfill it, because you’re helping a lot of people and people that really need what you and I are doing and how we’re helping in industry that’s grossly underserved. On the business end of the stick coming out of law school and at the law firm level. So kudos on that. Let’s take a few minutes, or few minutes, let’s take about five hours and talk about our sponsors. No, let’s just take a few moments to talk about our sponsors. Rankings. Io, everybody, if you’re looking to get things to the next level with your SEO, pay per click. Social media, check out rankings. I owe their top shelf the law her podcast, that might be a good one for you. I’ll maybe have you heard of that with Sonia. Sonia, okay, well, that’s a we got to change that. Now you have so check out law her and I’ll, I’ll talk to Sonia about seeing, uh, what her schedule looks like. And then legal versus media everybody. That’s a newer place to go to get great content on a more international legal scale, but check that out. I think you really enjoy it, Nancy, people want to get in touch with you. They want to hear more about how you’re helping lawyers and law firms. What are the best ways to reach you?

 

Nancy Fox  [29:12]

So I have a website. My LinkedIn profile is probably the most comprehensive of everything. It’s the easiest and, well, the only Nancy Fox, wise, W, y, z, E on LinkedIn, yeah, and that’s really a great place to start. My website is wise rainmakers.com. Forward slash rainmakers. Um, I got a lot of stuff. I’ve got a blog on there. And by the way, if you want to contribute a post to the blog, I’m happy to look at that. I would love to have a chat with you. Have a FAQ on there, and there’s a lot of good content. But I think those are the two ways to get a hold of me. I am writing a book on rainmaking called make rain like a box. Now I’m looking for interviewees, and the book is really a combination of the mindset and the tactical and strategic on rainmaking, putting those two things together. So I’m looking for interviewees. I’m.

 

Steve Fretzin  [30:00]

Oh, me, or you want to talk to rainmakers and rainmakers and rainmakers, well, I’m, I’m 100% on board. And I don’t know if you know this, but there’s a book called be that lawyer, 101 top Rainmaker secrets during a successful upright get shameless. Don’t mind the shameless plug. It just happens. But this is, it’s one thing that you and I have all this experience and knowledge in the industry. But then when you take rainmakers and the people that just like you, the lawyer listening, that have had the hard times and had to work through it and figured out a way to make millions and to live that top level lawyer’s life. It’s exciting. It’s exciting to hear that other people are doing it. And guess what? They’re not smarter than you. You’re just as smart as they are. They just figured out a system, they got a coach, they did something that you haven’t done yet, and that’s probably what they determine, why they’re in the book and you’re not yet. But maybe there’ll be a part two. Who knows? But anyway, but Nancy, that sounds fantastic. Is that network like a fox? That’s behind you? That’s so this is going to be like another, like a fox networking.

 

Nancy Fox  [30:58]

Network like, obviously about meeting the right people, yeah, and going to be about the entire rainmaking process, sure, in the era of AI and digital, you know, relationship building and all that, but it’s really, you know, the mindset piece of it included in this is really where I got really excited about sharing something new around that.

 

Steve Fretzin  [31:16]

Yeah, all right. Well, fantastic. Well, thanks for being a guest, and thanks for, you know, being a fan of the show and in my social posts and all that. And I’m hoping that there’s a lot more that you and I can collaborate on, because we both live in a world of abundance and understanding that, you know, there’s we’re stronger together than apart.

 

Nancy Fox  [31:33]

Absolutely, I’m so appreciative that you invited me on, because this is a great conversation. You do a lot of great conversations. I’ve really been enjoying them, and thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. And thank you for your listeners, for listening in

 

Steve Fretzin  [31:44]

Yeah, yeah. They’re the best. And I get people all the time telling me what kind of what you’re saying, which just, you know, my ego aside, right? I’m just happy that they’re getting, you know, as much value out of it. I listen to my own shows too, by the way, and I’m still, you know, hearing it for a second time to pull out an idea or two that that I can use or share with my clients. So hey, thank you everybody for hanging out with Nancy and I for the last 30 minutes. Hopefully you’re working to, you know, be that organized and be that smart and be that lawyer, a confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. Take care. Everybody. Be safe. Be well. Talk again soon.

 

Narrator  [32:22]

Say thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.