In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Nanette Fridman discuss:
- Expanding professional networks through board service
- The role of lawyers in board settings
- Enhancing board effectiveness through diverse skills
- Strategic relationship-building in nonprofit organizations
Key Takeaways:
- Serving on boards lets lawyers contribute to meaningful causes while boosting their skills and network, making their careers more fulfilling.
- Lawyers should assess board members for a diverse skill mix before joining to ensure the position offers personal growth and enrichment.
- Engaging with board members outside formal meetings helps build stronger relationships, increases collaboration, and generates referrals, benefiting both the lawyer and the organization.
- Lawyers’ leadership skills are highly valued in board settings, providing effective governance and offering increased visibility and networking opportunities.
“Lawyers are great board members. People love having them on the board, and they often are natural leaders. And so, they become board chairs.” — Nanette Fridman
Read more from Steve at Above the Law: AboveTheLaw.com/tag/Steve-Fretzin/
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Episode References:
ReThinking Podcast by Adam Grant: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rethinking/id1554567118
About Nanette Fridman: Nanette Fridman is an organizational strategist, facilitator, and executive coach known for her dynamic and empowering approach. As the founder of Effect Collective and the author of On Board and Holding the Gavel, she excels in helping organizations and leaders optimize resources, strategize for the future, and enhance governance. With a background in corporate law and advocacy, Nanette brings a wealth of experience and high energy to her work as a national speaker, trainer, and facilitator for diverse audiences, including management teams, boards, and emerging leaders.
Connect with Nanette Fridman:
Website: https://www.effect-collective.com
On Board: What Current and Aspiring Board Members Must Know About Nonprofits and Board Service
Holding the Gavel: What Nonprofit Board Leaders Need to Know
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nanettefridman
Is This Board For Me? Questions to ask: https://shorturl.at/3TilQ
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, before we get to the show, I just want to share that I’m now writing for Above the Law. If you enjoy this podcast, you might also enjoy my monthly columns. You can go to Above the Law and type my name into the magnifying glass in the top right corner to read my latest articles. Thanks and enjoy the show.
[00:00:21] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
[00:00:43] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Be That Lawyer with Steve Fretzin. Threads and podcast. We are here for you to be that lawyer. Someone who’s confident and organized in a skilled rainmaker. I hope you’re loving the show. If you are, please don’t be shy, tell people about it. We’re looking to expand our audience.
[00:00:58] Steve Fretzin: Ultimately, the goal is, and this is my, kind of my mission through books and podcast and video is how are we helping lawyers Live their best lawyer life to have a bigger book of business to scale, to live their dream and get the most out of it. And so I continually, I mean, I’m not joking. I’m really working hard to bring in the best guests on a variety of different subjects where you’re going to get takes takeaways and actionable things that you can do to improve your life and may have more free time and more, whatever that means.
[00:01:27] Steve Fretzin: All right. It’s enough of that stuff. Let’s get down to it. We’ve got Nanette waiting in the wings. How you doing?
[00:01:32] Nanette Fridman: Hi steve. So happy to be here.
[00:01:34] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I had a wonderful trip to boston I know you gave me a couple of ideas when I was coming to boston But you know, we did the freedom trail and we did the lobster rolls I probably had a little too much lobster, by the way I didn’t know that lobster rolls like 36.
[00:01:49] Steve Fretzin: Oh,
[00:01:49] Nanette Fridman: that’s good. You got a cheap one this season. Oh, that was a cheap one. 39. Oh my God.
[00:01:54] Steve Fretzin: I got lunch for my wife and I, and they were like, that’s a hundred dollars, please. And this was like a quick takeout joint. I was like, okay, I guess that’s
[00:02:01] Nanette Fridman: a good lobster roll. It wasn’t. It
[00:02:03] Steve Fretzin: wasn’t really good lobster roll.
[00:02:04] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everything, everything we ate there was delicious. So. Had a lot of fun in boston and you know, I wanna i’ll introduce you in a minute But let’s get into the quote of the show and in my audience I think knows that i’m a huge vince lombardi fan, even though i’m a Chicago guy, this this vince lombardi man He’s got some real winners and here’s one that you submitted leaders aren’t born.
[00:02:25] Steve Fretzin: They are made And they are made just like everything else through hard work. That’s the price you have to pay to achieve that goal or any goal. So, so first of all, welcome to the show, Nanette. And second of all, talk, talk to us a little bit about why you love that quote so much.
[00:02:38] Nanette Fridman: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.
[00:02:40] Nanette Fridman: You know, what I, what I love about that quote is that the idea that anyone can become a leader, you’re not born that way. You are made, you can become a leader. Through hard work, goal setting, and as I’ll say for you, systems, right? And I think that really opens up the field and there’s no shortage of causes or organizations or things that need leadership.
[00:03:05] Nanette Fridman: And people can be every day. heroes and leaders and they can be big L leaders. But I think that the key is, is that you can see yourself as a leader in different arenas. And everyone should think that it’s just a question of the desire to do so. And then putting in the work.
[00:03:22] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. It’s a hundred percent that, you know, used to like everyone thinks rainmakers are born, right.
[00:03:27] Steve Fretzin: People that just develop it. Look, there are people that have personalities that are maybe more aligned with, with building business, but ultimately anyone can do it. It’s a learned skill. I know this because I teach it. I haven’t, I spoke to a client of mine this morning who’s a, who’s a solid introvert.
[00:03:42] Steve Fretzin: She is just killing it at her firm and everyone at her firm is talking about her and she’s, it’s, everything’s buzzing. And so it’s like. It’s it is it is true. It’s just it’s hard work But but if you have systems and you have good coaching or you have someone good in your corner Leading you along it certainly takes a lot of that hard work out of it Because you’re you’re getting kind of the keys to the castle.
[00:04:03] Steve Fretzin: So Absolutely.
[00:04:04] Nanette Fridman: Absolutely
[00:04:05] Steve Fretzin: Nanette fridman you are the founder of effect collective and the author of on board which you’re so so lovely that you sent me this book I had a chance to kind Of peruse through it And a lot of great content there, but give us a little bit of your background, how you came to be and why you became an expert at working with boards.
[00:04:23] Nanette Fridman: Sure. I’ll give you the quick version. Quick version is I was one of these people that was on boards from an early age. I was like the student liaison to my university board and I was fascinated by them. And then I went to work in DC and worked with a lot of boards. And when I was a lawyer, I’m a lawyer by training.
[00:04:42] Nanette Fridman: I did a lot of work. With nonprofit and nonprofit boards at my firm, and I was just always really attracted to the idea that people care about a cause that’s bigger than themselves enough to volunteer their time, and they partner with professionals to kind of move the needle, and it just really appealed to me on so many levels.
[00:05:04] Nanette Fridman: It’s meaningful and purposeful. I like the kind of people that tracks and governance is one of I guess I’m a bit of a dog because I think it’s super interesting.
[00:05:15] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. It’s not been a huge part of my world. And maybe that’s one reason that I brought you on the show is to talk about the fact that There aren’t many attorneys that are a on boards and be at least that i’m talking to and then be that are actually getting Value on the board beyond the charity that they’re doing like I think
[00:05:34] Nanette Fridman: No, no, we need to change that We need to talk to every one of the people have been through your fabulous programs because every single board Needs lawyers and there is so much opportunity It is like a win win win Yeah for the organization But both personally for lawyers, I will tell you that many lawyers that I Coach and talk to they find their board service a way to add meaningful work to augment What they’re working on.
[00:06:05] Nanette Fridman: So let’s say your dream in life wasn’t to be a construction lawyer and you always wanted to work with animals. We’re working on a nonprofit board that works the animals that might fill your bucket in ways that allows you to be better at your day job because you feel purpose and meaning. And, you know, really for for for.
[00:06:21] Nanette Fridman: Lawyers, if there’s personal reasons to do it, giving back to your community and meeting people and socializing and that warm glow, but you know, there is even data that tells us there’s physical and mental health benefits to volunteering on being on boards, but professionally, it can be a game changer.
[00:06:38] Nanette Fridman: game changer to be on a board, to increase your networks, to raise your profile. You can get leadership opportunities. You would never get at your firm for so long to be the, you know, the quarterback of big projects. I mean, I know a lawyer Who was put on a board because the partner and his firm said, I like this.
[00:06:57] Nanette Fridman: I like this charity. Do you want to be on the board? And the lawyer said, sure, I’ll be on the board because he really wanted to get close to the partner. And he found himself, you know, being the lead real estate counsel for this huge project. He wouldn’t have gotten to touch that. At the firm for another eight years,
[00:07:14] Steve Fretzin: but I want, I want to slow you down, which is hard to do.
[00:07:16] Steve Fretzin: Cause you’re shot out of a cannon this morning, which is, which is the way I love it. But the time, I think a lot of it has to do with either the perception of it from a standpoint of time, or just the idea that lawyers are struggling. Like they’re all fully billable. I’m talking to them about business development.
[00:07:33] Steve Fretzin: They want to spend time with their families, which is like critical. You got to do that. You don’t want to let the world pass you by and you never saw your kids or whatever. So it’s like, this is like one more thing we’re dumping on top of them. And that’s what, one of the reasons why I think there is maybe a misperception about, about joining a board and how much time it’s going to take.
[00:07:53] Steve Fretzin: Can you, can you snap that in half?
[00:07:55] Nanette Fridman: Yeah, sure. So look, there’s all sorts of boards. There are boards that don’t have a big professional staff, which require a lot of time from board members. And that probably isn’t going to be right for a busy lawyer looking to balance family and work. And then there are very high functioning boards that have evolved from being founding boards to governing boards, institutional boards that have full staffs.
[00:08:18] Nanette Fridman: And they’re asking board members to come four times a year for a board meeting. To read the materials ahead of time and to serve on a committee and to be friend raisers and fundraisers, maybe for the organization. That’s certainly doable boards that meet four to six times a year. You can be on the legal committee or provide legal advice when you’re needed.
[00:08:36] Nanette Fridman: I don’t think that’s too heavy of a lift for most lawyers. And in fact, you’re going to get, you know, we like effectiveness of that collective. You’re going to. Check many boxes because when you’re going there, you’re networking if you pick the right board with people that might be, you know, doing the work for your program, Steve, right?
[00:08:55] Nanette Fridman: And in addition if you’re on that board and you can develop relationships to get referrals, also visibility. Many nonprofits that you’re on will put out PR about who’s on their board, who has, you know, if you’re honored by the board, if you have pictures in your local paper because you go to the events of your board.
[00:09:16] Nanette Fridman: So I think you have to reconceptualize how you think about this. I mean, I hope that you don’t only do it for that reason. I hope you do it because you care about the cause and you want to advance the mission. But I will also tell you, I think that it’s okay to do it because it expands your networks, gets you referrals and raises your visibility and that checks lots of boxes.
[00:09:35] Steve Fretzin: Well, and let’s, let’s take that a step further than two. And this may be where the business development comes in in my, my angle, right? So you’re on a board, you show up for the meeting, have the meeting. It’s a cause you love. People are great. You’re becoming friendly with all these people show up for the meeting, leave the meeting.
[00:09:50] Steve Fretzin: All right. Come back next month. Show up for the meeting, leave the meeting. Good or bad. Is there more than, is there more a lawyer could be doing to develop those relationships, The potential business side of things.
[00:10:03] Nanette Fridman: Absolutely. It’s like everything else. It’s what you make of it. So if you’re showing up at the meeting and just, you know, they are not really having coffee with people in between the meeting, getting to know the CEO or the executive director, looking at the donors and taking your own donor list to have coffee with.
[00:10:19] Nanette Fridman: Well, I don’t know about you, but if I was a lawyer, I’d love to meet with the donors of the nonprofit because they might have businesses or other things that they’re involved with. And I think that the more you get involved, first of all, hopefully the better you feel about, you know, the time that you’re giving, because you understand more of how the nonprofit works and what they’re doing.
[00:10:41] Nanette Fridman: And the more that you’re in, I think you get called on to do things that are unique experiences. Right. When I was a young lawyer, I was called by a nonprofit that said, you really love to talk. I said, what makes you think that? And they said, would you like to be the MC at our auction? Because we think you have a great personality to be at it.
[00:11:01] Nanette Fridman: You know, like, so, I mean, you never know what’s going to happen when you just start kind of showing up as your authentic self. To the board, right? Maybe you’re the lawyer that, you know, looks at the contracts offline and you don’t want to do that, or maybe you’re the lawyer that’s really meeting and greeting folks and getting really involved and going to events and it’s a fancy, it’s your date night with your spouse or your significant other.
[00:11:23] Nanette Fridman: So you get, you know, again, we’re getting two fers. You’re bringing, you’re having a date night, but it’s at the event.
[00:11:28] Steve Fretzin: Right. Right. So I, and I love that. And, you know, again, the idea that you just show up and, and, and good, and I’m going to get business from this board and again, charity first, and then secondary benefit is network.
[00:11:40] Steve Fretzin: And there could be business there, but you’re not maybe doing enough to develop the relationship, to show up at the events, to show how smart you are by, by being a leader or by. Solving problems within that group. That’s going to demonstrate, Hey, this is how this guy here, gal handles cases. This is if I can see them work at this level here, how good of a lawyer, they, they should be brought in on my business or be brought in other ways.
[00:12:05] Steve Fretzin: And not only are they a good
[00:12:07] Nanette Fridman: lawyer, but they’re a good person because there are lots of lawyers and what you have to do to sell yourself in anything is be someone that someone wants to work And if I want to choose between working with a person who cares about the cause I care about and has done a good thing by helping them, or I want to just, you know, work with someone who is only about the dollars and cents, I personally want to work with the person who also gives back to the community.
[00:12:31] Nanette Fridman: That’s a factor for me in picking my legal representation and the law firms I engage, you know, and so I think you see this all the time that firms are touting their pro bono hours and listings, and this is an extension of that concept, right? It’s not about the pro bono hours that your firm is doing.
[00:12:48] Nanette Fridman: And maybe, by the way, you get credit in some firms for doing this. That’s another thing. Some firms do give people, do give lawyers, you know, kind of credit for being on non profit boards or encourage them to be on non profit boards.
[00:13:03] Steve Fretzin: Two parts to this. There’s, you know, what board do I want to be on? And then how do I get on that board?
[00:13:08] Steve Fretzin: There might be different. Like, I might want to get on a board that I’m, you know, that’s too, you know, big shot or too, too far away from me. And I don’t know how to get on the board. So how do I pick a board? And then how do I get on the board that I want?
[00:13:19] Nanette Fridman: Yeah, great. So even picking a board, I think, is a networking opportunity because I think you say, okay, what am I interested in?
[00:13:27] Nanette Fridman: Or what boards are the partners that my firm interested in? Or by the way, what boards are my clients on are interested in? And then start those conversations. You know, I love to just hear about, you know, Your board. How’d you get involved? What’s your board service? What does it mean to be on the board? Is your board looking for people to be on a committee?
[00:13:45] Nanette Fridman: Being on a committee is often a good way to get on a board. So you start by being on a committee, kind of prove yourself, get known, and then join a board. Sometimes for lawyers, you also might do a pro bono project for a nonprofit, and that might be a way that you get asked to be later on the board.
[00:14:04] Nanette Fridman: Another thing is that again, you donate, you show up at the events, you volunteer, right? You volunteer. I mean, I know some lawyers that get asked to be on so many boards that it’s very overwhelming. And I think that’s because legal skills are something that every single board need in one way or the other.
[00:14:22] Nanette Fridman: And, and lawyers tend to be smart, analytical, strategic people, which is who you want on board. So I think that it’s, it’s finding what is Both advantageous and interesting to you in the right combination by talking to the people who you are either in relationship or want to be in relationship with.
[00:14:38] Nanette Fridman: And then in terms of getting invited, it’s by putting yourself on the on the list, put yourself on the list by showing up by volunteering by being on a committee. And if you really need help, there is this organization. that matches people. So you can get matched through, you know, Lee Tucker runs a group called from board to board, B O R E D to B O A R D.
[00:15:03] Nanette Fridman: And you can go online and you can kind of fill out and show up for those meetings. And you can see who’s interested in finding board LinkedIn. You can go on LinkedIn and see who’s looking for board members. So there’s, there’s no shortage of ways to find out. I would also look at my firm’s history of where they’ve done pro bono work either in the past or, you know, areas and then see if that might be a way to dig in as well.
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[00:17:36] Steve Fretzin: They’re not at the local networking events. So they asked me, where are they? I go there at the private clubs and they’re on the boards. Like, those are the, those are the two key areas that you’re going to want to explore. If you want to network with people who could do business with you directly. Now it’s up to you to kind of do what you’re saying, Nanette, which is to, you know, ferret all that out and figure out which one is, makes the most sense.
[00:17:56] Nanette Fridman: And some of the boards are even bigger bang for the buck. I mean, I would say community foundations. Are probably the best board or United Way or anything that’s federated or umbrella, because when you’re dealing with as a lawyer, you’re dealing on those boards, you’re getting exposed, not just to the board you’re on, but you’re getting exposed to the ecosystem that’s represented.
[00:18:19] Nanette Fridman: So any kind of either federated board or umbrella. Board that touches a lot of other nonprofits. That’s a lot of bang for the buck and a lot of potential CEOs, decision makers around there.
[00:18:32] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I want lawyers to interact with the board members and build relationships and all that. And I think there’s probably some unwritten rule that you could share with us about do’s and don’ts of how to behave on a board.
[00:18:45] Steve Fretzin: For example, if I’m on the board with you and I’ve been coming to meetings for six months, we just met for the first time and you run a company and I hit you up for business, probably a note, probably a no, no, right? No, no. What would be the appropriate way for someone to to approach the timing and the approach for.
[00:19:06] Steve Fretzin: A conversation where we might be able to collaborate on business together if you’re a CEO and I’m a lawyer.
[00:19:11] Nanette Fridman: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s a it’s really about the right opportunity Where you’ve gotten to know each other where it would be appropriate to ask would it be okay? For me to add you to my mailing list.
[00:19:23] Nanette Fridman: Would it be okay for, I’d love to invite you to my firm’s holiday party. Would it be, I’d love to invite you to my firm does a briefing once a year about updated whatever rules that I know might be interesting to you. So I think you have to kind of personalize it a little bit. And I don’t love, you know, you know, showing up and being like, okay, You know, I’m on this board and now please give me business because everyone’s sitting in there and has day jobs, right?
[00:19:50] Nanette Fridman: And so, you know, I was just on a board call yesterday where a woman who sells promotional materials, right? She does swag. And so she said, I’m not soliciting anyone here to, to use my company. I just want to tell you that we did all the swag. For free for this, this board. And so if you like it and, you know, and you consider, you know, sending us your business, we would be appreciative, but I’m not, I’m not soliciting you.
[00:20:14] Nanette Fridman: And so that was kind of a backhanded, you know,
[00:20:17] Steve Fretzin: more of a, like a backdoor way to get the word out without being salesy. But. I don’t know.
[00:20:22] Nanette Fridman: Some
[00:20:24] Steve Fretzin: people might have been fine with that. Some people might have been like, yeah, that’s why she did it or he did or whatever. What I would suggest too because this is in my realm a little bit is get to know people on the board for a year, spend time with them socially, spend time with them at the vents.
[00:20:38] Steve Fretzin: Val, like show that you’re the leader, show that you’re the, you’re the, you’re the shit, pardon my French. And maybe you get to know them at a level where you’re asking questions about their business, where they start to tell you their problems. They start to tell you the things and whether it’s something you can solve or whether you can offer resources, that’s going to all come out and they’re going to say, Hey, is that something you could help me with?
[00:20:58] Steve Fretzin: Well, yeah, I mean, I don’t want to, you know, step on any toes here because we’re on the board together. But yeah, if you want me to look at that issue, I’m happy to take a look at it. Now you’re in the door. So it’s not a sales, it’s not a sales approach. It’s just a learning and understanding and listening approach allows you to be a friend and also potentially get out of the friend zone through asking questions, identifying problems.
[00:21:21] Nanette Fridman: Always the best way. Listen, personal is always the best way, and I think you can, you know, you can rest assured that when you join a board, your bio is going to be distributed. People are going to know how to contact you. Your LinkedIn is going to be shared. You’re going to, so you’re going to have already like people when they think, Oh, do I know a lawyer?
[00:21:41] Nanette Fridman: Oh, I do construction law. Okay, I’m going to call that person. I do real estate law. Like, they’ll already be aware of you, but that’s not enough. They have to do what you’re saying, which is, you know, developing that relationship makes me go from being aware of you to feeling that I trust you enough to, you know, make that call to you.
[00:22:00] Nanette Fridman: And I think that does come from relationship building. And I think it also comes from people watching you in action. People on boards listen to what people say at board meetings and very quickly figure out who talks to hear their own voice and who adds value. So people can admire. You from afar before they have coffee with you even because they say, wow, that person showed up and they dug in and they’re really adding value and you get a real big audience potentially quickly to kind of think about who would like to kind of learn more about you.
[00:22:34] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, that’s really great. Here’s a, here’s an interesting question. How much of being on a board in this is, is, is about fundraising? Cause I, that might be a concern for people like, Hey, I’m really busy now. I got to sit and I got to try to hit up a ton of people for money for this charity, for this board, and that’s not really their jam or not something that they really want to engage in.
[00:22:54] Steve Fretzin: So is that a big part of, of being on a board? Is that, is that, is it an, that depends sort of an answer?
[00:23:00] Nanette Fridman: is always a part of being on a board because it’s a core board responsibility to ensure that the organization has the adequate financial resources it needs. You should ask everyone, not just lawyers, before you join a board or be told, what is the board giving policy or expectation?
[00:23:20] Nanette Fridman: Some boards insist that you give a certain amount. To be on the board. Some say you don’t have to give it, but you have to raise that amount. Some have more general language that say, we’d like you to make a personally meaningful gift. And some say, we want you to be one of our top philanthropic priorities.
[00:23:37] Nanette Fridman: So there’s different ways that boards say it about your own personal contribution and what you’re expected to do to raise from others. But even without asking people for money, everyone is expected to be an ambassador. So to raise friends and to open and to put your network to avail it to the organization, because that’s really the lifeline, right?
[00:23:57] Nanette Fridman: Because organizations need volunteers. They need other committee members and board members. They need dollars. They need friends. It might be an advocacy issue. You might be a lawyer that is savvy on public policy, and there might be lobbying going on by a nonprofit, right? So there’s lots of ways that you might open your network and I think you should, you should definitely plan on making a personal contribution in lines with the board giving policy and helping in a way that feels authentic and appropriate to you with sharing your network.
[00:24:34] Steve Fretzin: So let’s, let’s, we’ve got a few minutes left. What, what would be your top like three tips for how to maximize their board experience on a couple levels? Number one, network. Number two, that the cause number three, you know, just, just, you know, potentially getting business, which, you know, again, should not be the priority of Anyone that’s joining a board.
[00:24:55] Steve Fretzin: However, what a nice side effect. If you can make that happen.
[00:24:58] Nanette Fridman: Yeah. The first thing I would say is get yourself up to speed quickly, read about what the organization does its annual report, its strategic plan, the website and definitely meet with the CEO or the executive director, because the more, you know, about the organization, And then who’s been involved.
[00:25:18] Nanette Fridman: Look at the annual report of who their biggest supporters are. Look who is on the board. Do your homework in advance. Then you can really narrow in not only on how you want to add value, because there are many ways. You might not want to use your lawyer skills to add value, by the way. Maybe you’re a secret you know, artist, and maybe you’re a lawyer by day, but you’re a digital artist by night, and you don’t want to use your lawyer skills on this board.
[00:25:44] Nanette Fridman: You want to use your digital art skills on this. Yeah. Okay. I mean, you don’t have to use your lawyer skills, your legal skills on the board. So you need to figure out, learn as much as you can, figure out how you want to add value. Is it law? Is it something else? Is it your network? And figure out who the players are and make a list.
[00:26:04] Nanette Fridman: And I’m sure you tell your people this all the time. What gets scheduled gets done. So when you get on that board, after you get through the nominating committee and you’re nominated, if they don’t ask for it, you ask for meeting with the CEO, meeting with the development professional, meeting with the board chair, and they should ask for these things.
[00:26:22] Nanette Fridman: Many of them will. And then schedule your coffees or your pre board meeting drinks. You know, never. What is it? Never eat alone. Never drink alone. If you’re going to board meeting, you should be meeting someone for 30 minutes before that board meeting to maximize it. You’re going to have a zoom meeting.
[00:26:40] Nanette Fridman: Stay on 30 minutes after schedule those things. And if you do those things, it will have the net effect on all the things you asked about your network, your cause and your business.
[00:26:52] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I think ask about the time requirements too, because you want to understand, is it just one board meeting a month and it’s an hour?
[00:26:58] Steve Fretzin: Is it how much extra time? So there’s just a lot of, I think being, well, here’s a good question that I have about questions. What are two or three good questions that you should ask someone who’s running a board to understand if it’s a good fit for you?
[00:27:12] Nanette Fridman: Absolutely. Well, you were, you were starting to go there.
[00:27:14] Nanette Fridman: You know, what is the time commitment, both in terms of regular board meetings? Is there a yearly retreat that I’m expected to block out a whole day for or half a day for an annual meeting? That’s one bucket meetings. What is the committee? Am I expected to be on one or more committees? When does that start?
[00:27:33] Nanette Fridman: And what does that commitment look like? And what are the committees? The giving policy? What is the giving policy of the board? And then I also would ask about it. What type of events or other obligations that affect my calendar? So, for example, some boards require that you attend four events a year that they consider to be their signature events or something like that.
[00:27:58] Nanette Fridman: So you want to look holistically at what’s required of your time. And and also, you know, it’s not just about time. I think you want to find out about are there other lawyers on the board? Because I will tell you, if you get on a board where there’s like six other lawyers, first of all, they haven’t done a good job because they should be diversifying their skillset, but you might not want to be on that board because to your point, that might not be the biggest bang for the buck to sit with six other lawyers.
[00:28:22] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. It’s like going to a conference where everyone does exactly what you do. It may not be the best use of your time.
[00:28:27] Nanette Fridman: It might not be the best use. So don’t be afraid to say, you know, would I be joining other lawyers on this board? Are you, you know, and here’s one thing I tell everyone to ask. Why do you think I’m a good fit for this board?
[00:28:39] Steve Fretzin: I like that, right? Okay. Yeah,
[00:28:41] Nanette Fridman: the answer may surprise you and maybe because you’re a lawyer and maybe because One of your clients is a major donor and maybe because you live in the right part of town It may be because you know, you have a something that they’re looking for in terms of of other skill sets So maybe maybe who
[00:28:56] Steve Fretzin: introduced you in right like they totally trust this person is bringing you in and she said, you know They’ve talked you up a big deal.
[00:29:02] Steve Fretzin: So like they that’s why You
[00:29:04] Nanette Fridman: Totally. And so you want to ask, why do you think, and what are you hoping for me to contribute to this board?
[00:29:11] Steve Fretzin: You know, I, I, this is a subject that really hasn’t been spoken about on this show. And I’m really kicking myself that we didn’t meet in talk two years ago. Cause I think this is such a, such a cool and interesting topic.
[00:29:23] Steve Fretzin: Thank you so much. Let’s let’s move on to our game changing podcast. You love Adam Grant. That’s what you told me. And rethinking is his newer podcast. Is that what we’re sharing today?
[00:29:35] Nanette Fridman: Yes, I get his. I, I see so much of Adam Grant, like, I think my husband’s a little jealous. Like, I listen to him. He comes to my inbox every day.
[00:29:45] Nanette Fridman: I follow him on all social media. I have every one of his books. I think he is so brilliant because of his observations about, you know, he’s an organizational psychologist, right? And so he’s talking about how humans behave in the workforce in society and how they think and how they should maybe think differently and be more open to rethinking as is his big thing.
[00:30:09] Nanette Fridman: And if you don’t know him and you’re not a fan girl or boy or person, I strongly encourage you because I, I just find him to be brilliant.
[00:30:17] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Yeah. He’s, he’s tip of the spear. Really, really smart guy. Hey, as we wrap up, want to thank our sponsors, get staffed up law Maddox and Pym con coming, coming at you in September.
[00:30:28] Steve Fretzin: And check that out on the show notes. And Nanette, if people want to get in touch with you to learn more about what you do and, and getting on a board and, and, and they want to get your, your book on board, what are the best digits for them to reach you?
[00:30:41] Nanette Fridman: Absolutely. People can go to LinkedIn and it’s Nanette Friedman, but with an I, F R I D M A N, or they can find Affect Collective on there or go to our website, www.
[00:30:53] Nanette Fridman: affectcollective. org. Effect collective.com. You can also find us on Facebook and our books are on Amazon, so we have onboard which is for people joining a board. So if people listen to this and they feel excited about joining, or if you find yourself as a board chair we, I wrote a book called Holding the Gavel, which guides people through being board chairs, which I wouldn’t be surprised if people follow the advice today and they get on a board.
[00:31:17] Nanette Fridman: Many a lawyer. Soon finds himself being board chair. So you’ll let y’all have to report back to me. Let me know if your people end up in that situation.
[00:31:25] Steve Fretzin: Well, are you saying lawyers are control freaks? Is that what you’re saying?
[00:31:28] Nanette Fridman: No, I’m saying lawyers are great board members. People, people love, people love having them on the board and they, they often are natural leaders.
[00:31:36] Nanette Fridman: And so they become board chairs.
[00:31:37] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Very, very cool. Thank you so much. This was, I have just so much, so many notes here and just so much content we covered in a short amount of time. The 30 minutes absolutely flew. Just thank you so much. I appreciate it. I’m so happy that we we are connected.
[00:31:51] Nanette Fridman: As well.
[00:31:52] Nanette Fridman: Thank you. And thanks for what you’re doing because, you know, I was a lawyer. It’s not easy. And I’m really grateful that you’re helping people on the business side so they can focus on the legal side and, and make it more enjoyable and meaningful.
[00:32:04] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Now it’s, it’s, it’s my honor and my privilege to be invited in and welcomed into this brilliant industry that my father enjoyed for so many years.
[00:32:13] Steve Fretzin: And and now I get to, as a non lawyer, I get pulled into it and, and it’s, it’s been, it’s been my greatest gift. To my life to to being a part of this industry. So thank you so much. And hey everybody Thank you for spending some time with the net and I today. This is really something special for you all That maybe had thought about boards but hadn’t really pulled the trigger or maybe you’re on a board and you’re not really getting As much out of it as you might think Could and so take to heart what we shared today and and be that lawyer, everybody.
[00:32:39] Steve Fretzin: Somebody who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Take care, be safe, be well. We’ll talk again soon.
[00:32:49] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin. com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, visit Check out today’s show notes.