RJ Curcio: Networking in a Multi-Generational Industry

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and RJ Curcio discuss:

  • Growing up surrounded by lawyers.
  • Being a millennial lawyer.
  • Keys to getting a strong book of business in a transactional field of law.
  • Adapting the modern workplace to the workforce in your company.

Key Takeaways:

  • The way law firms were run in the 1950s was very different from how they are run today. Learn from the other generations, in both directions.
  • A lot of personal injury attorneys get their clients via referrals from other attorneys. Network with those in other practice areas and make yourself top of mind with them.
  • Networking with other 1-to-1 attorneys can help everyone to build a stronger book and to lift each other in their fields.
  • Millennials are hard workers and creative, but they may think differently and work differently than the previous generations. Different generations require different tools to work most effectively.

“It comes down to understanding who your workforce is, who is going to be a big part of that, and how they want to operate. Ultimately, you want to make sure that you can provide those different options to that workforce in order to get the most out of them.” —  RJ Curcio

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Legalese Marketing: https://legaleasemarketing.com/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Practice Panther: https://www.practicepanther.com/

Episode References: 

Connect with RJ Curcio:  

Website: https://www.curcio-law.com/

Phone: 312-321-1111

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rj-curcio-2463648a/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: [email protected]

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.



Narrator, Steve Fretzin, MoneyPenny, Jordan Ostroff, Practice Panther, RJ Curcio


RJ Curcio  [00:00]

Number One. Okay, how do we get that client? A lot of that comes from networking. It comes from meeting other attorneys A comes from going out with those attorneys making sure that they understand what we do the value that we provide, who we’re really looking for, and understanding what we perceive to be the best fit for our firm.


Narrator  [00:25]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer Coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:47]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin. And I’m so happy that you’re with us today. You know, this is a show all about helping you the lawyer to take things to the next level. And whether it’s talking to your peers rainmakers, experts in legal whatever the case, the goal is for you to get some you know, fresh tips and ideas on how to how to make it out there as an attorney, whether you’re at a big firm a solo, you’re in personal injury, or you’re in IP, or whatever the case might be. That’s what that’s what this all about. If you’re interested in learning more about frets and you can go to my website, frets and.com, you want to check out my books, you can go to Amazon, just type in Steve frets in on Amazon, you’ll pull up the four books I’ve authored, and certainly don’t be shy about going to YouTube and checking out our YouTube channel. If you just again type in Steve frets. And on YouTube, I think I’ve got something like, I don’t know RJ if it’s like 300 or 350 videos. Some of them are really old. Like, I look like you. I mean Young. Right? I got no beard. I have black hair, like full head of hair. So I don’t know if I’m embarrassed because I look like a bee. I gotta like a big chubby baby face. But anyway, have you ever have you been on my YouTube channel?


RJ Curcio  [01:52]

I’ve been on your YouTube channel a ton. Steve.


Steve Fretzin  [01:56]

Did you ever look at those old videos? I did. I don’t


RJ Curcio  [01:59]

know if I’ve ever looked at the old ones. I’ve always been on for the LinkedIn tips.


Steve Fretzin  [02:02]

Oh, the LinkedIn tips. Okay, well, those were done in a reasonable amount of time ago. But yeah, I’ve got some ones from like, from like the mid 2000s. Like 2006 2007, where I looked like a very different person. I’m just an old dog at this point. Anyway, RJ Welcome to the show, man. Good to see you. So happy that you’re with us. How’s your day going? So far?


RJ Curcio  [02:23]

It’s going great so far. Steve. Happy to be here. Thanks so much for having me on.


Steve Fretzin  [02:26]

Yeah, absolutely. And RJ you were so kind as to share a quote of the show. And it’s the first time I think we’ve quoted Michael Jordan and people that have watched me before know I got the autographed Michael Jordan Jersey behind me. That’s my little my little claim to fame with with MJ but the quote that you send me his winning has a price and leadership has a price. So what is why that quote and kind of like, what does that mean to you? And why is that one that you would submit to me, it’s kind of like your game changing quote.


RJ Curcio  [02:55]

So kind of backing up for a second, Steve, the first thing here is that I was born and raised in Chicago, I was a kid in the 90s got to see MJ through the second half of the championships, for sure I was around for the first half. But I don’t know if I fully remember that. So he’s godlike in this particular city. Yeah, when the last dance came out during the pandemic, I watched it. And that was an episode seven. And they were talking about his competitive fire. At that particular point, we had nothing to do but to sit around at home, and to think about all the things we wish we could do. And that particular quote, has always stuck with me, I actually have it on a sign in my house right next to the door when I walk out every day. And the reason being when you are in a position, a leadership position within your company, whether that’s a law firm or someplace else. There’s certain sacrifices you have to make, whether that’s working long hours, or whether that’s not always being the most liked person in the room. It’s something that you have to be willing to do. If you want to succeed, and you want to get to higher levels of performance, both internally and what people perceive externally.


Steve Fretzin  [04:05]

Yeah. And I think when lawyers think about whether it’s business development or managing a firm, there’s a sacrifice involved. And not everybody is willing to make it not everybody’s willing to sacrifice maybe a little bit of balance. It’s especially at the beginning, right when you’ve got a struggle, and you’ve got to really put in the time and the hours to get the the hours build. Yes, the clients manage. Yes. But then you also have the marketing, business development, the management role, things like that, which is a whole other


RJ Curcio  [04:33]

level. So, you know,


Steve Fretzin  [04:36]

I think a big part of our conversation today is going to be is going to be angled in that direction. But you’re the RJ crucio you’re the partner Curzio law. I think there’s a reason that your name is on the door, maybe give us a little background on yourself and sort of how you came to be


RJ Curcio  [04:50]

sure so our firm was started in 1956 by my dad, and we’ve been serving personal injury clients ever since the The reason that I’m here today is only because he’s been doing this as in my entire life and his entire adult life. He told me when he started this practice, he did it because when he was 789 years old, he was living on the west side of Chicago. And his sister was running towards him, and unfortunately got struck by a car. She ended up passing away. And they dealt with a personal injury attorney at that point in time. And he felt like they didn’t get a good deal. That’s something that’s always stuck with me. I didn’t always want to be an attorney. But once I got to the point, when I was in college, I had to figure out what am I going to do next. I’ve started hanging around him a little bit more. And I learned that he knows a lot about a lot. And it’s not just the law. What makes our field interesting is if somebody gets injured in an elevator accident, we have to learn how elevators work. If somebody gets injured in a medical malpractice case, we got to learn about the body. We have to learn the science, we have to learn the engineering. And understanding how the world works is one of those things. It’s always been interesting to me. That’s ultimately why I got into the field.


Steve Fretzin  [06:04]

Yeah, and I grew up with Larry, the lawyer, and some of my listeners have heard Episode 200, where I interviewed him and he also came up in the 50s. I think he mentioned he made like 50 bucks a week. But growing up with a lawyer was wonderful, and also very tricky, because he always asked a lot of questions, and I didn’t really want him to because I was a teenager, and I just wanted to get out. I wanted to slink out of the room. And he still asked a lot of questions. I go dad, I gotta go, I gotta get off the phone. It’s been like 20 minutes. He just keeps asking more and more questions. It’s not, how’s your son doing? It just keeps going and going and going? Did you find was it you know, growing up with a lawyer father?


RJ Curcio  [06:40]

Well, I had it on both ends. I had a lawyer father, a lawyer, mother, cousin, who was a judge, I have a half sister, that’s a law professor. So I got it on all all angles.


Steve Fretzin  [06:51]

In one day, no wonder you’re so terribly damaged as a human.


RJ Curcio  [06:54]

I, I guess that’s a good way to put it. That’s why you end up in this profession. That’s


Steve Fretzin  [06:58]

right. That’s right.


RJ Curcio  [07:00]

It was it was great growing up with lawyer parents. Because as an only basically, I grew up as an only child. So it required a lot of intellectual curiosity to understand what they were doing. And to be able to kind of talk to them because I didn’t have brothers and sisters around to go throw the ball with or to go beat up while we were playing basketball outside of AR. So having forcing myself to sit down and learn how to converse with adults. It was a unique experience, but one that I wouldn’t change for the world. The worst part was it’s a confrontational profession. And sometimes it’s hard to check at the door. So that’s one of the things that we all try to do is to check that attitude sometimes at the door because if it leaks into family life, that’s never a good thing.


Steve Fretzin  [07:44]

Yeah, right now it was there any any like, you know, I call it to be that lawyer tipping point. But any like point where, you know, you’re going down one path and it changed and you kind of you know, did a 180 or something like that, where you just ended up where you ended up?


RJ Curcio  [07:58]

Yeah, it was the my spring semester of my senior year of college. And I had always wanted to be a strength and conditioning coach or basketball coach, because basketball is my true my passion outside of the law. But I realized I didn’t want to go on the recruiting trail for all of May, June, July and try to get a 16 year old did commit to the school that I was coaching at. And I realized being a strength coach as cool as it may seem, eating raw ground beef and peppers for the rest of my life is probably not the way that I want to live. Is that what they do? That’s what my strength coach did in Pilate that that he’d come in with a pound of raw beef for lunch and you put a little salt and pepper on it and you just put on raw peppers.


Steve Fretzin  [08:41]

Yeah, what? Okay, that doesn’t sound right at all. Okay, these


RJ Curcio  [08:46]

guys aren’t right in the head out. I go, okay. My dad


Steve Fretzin  [08:51]

has surely he should have had the strength to cook it. He didn’t have the strength to cook it. But that


RJ Curcio  [08:55]

says that you get more nutrients if it’s raw. I don’t know if it’s true and more


Steve Fretzin  [08:58]

bacterial diseases.


RJ Curcio  [09:00]

I guess so I never had the I never had the inclination to


Steve Fretzin  [09:03]

never take it that far. Right? Well, that that’s a great reason to do a 180 on that Holy mackerel.


RJ Curcio  [09:09]

Four years of that will get you to the point when you say this is maybe not what I want to do. But I had a friend who just said take the LSAT with me you should apply to law school and I remember waking up one morning I was down in Miami, Florida where I went to school, sun’s shining in and I just said you know what, I want to go back home and I want to go to law school and I want to work with my parents and my dad took so much pride in what he did that I decided I want to go carry on that legacy as best I can do it my way but carry on what he started


Steve Fretzin  [09:40]

Yeah, I was going to ask you about that RJ in in you know sort of like you know, I didn’t go into the into my father never thought I was going to be an attorney because I was a terrible student. And it was never I think in his sights but I just went my own path. And now the fact that I somehow landed back in legal, you know, for like the last 16 years it’s been wonderful for us to I have great conversations about the legal industry and about lawyers and all that. But talk to me a little bit about stepping into the family practice sort of like, what were the benefits of that. And what were some of the, you know, the negatives to that, because I have to believe there were both.


RJ Curcio  [10:13]

There’s a lot of pros and a lot of cons. I’ll start with the car, when I go negative one positive, I love it. When I first started practicing, well, I was a law clerk first. And then I became a lawyer, I was still living with my parents. And at that particular point in time, it was six days a week, we’re in the office, we’re here from eight to six, we’re here on Saturdays, from nine to two. That’s a lot of time. And then you go home. And, you know, Joe, the partner is sitting across the table from me, Joe been my dad, asking me about the cases that were going on. So you don’t get a break. Oh, my God, the hours are not eight to six, that can create a lot of friction. Especially with somebody who’s as old school as he is, which having started the practice in the 1950s. You didn’t have all the luxuries that we have today of technology and making things more efficient. Yeah. That was the biggest con. Okay, everything else has been a pro though, you having an opportunity to work with your dad is an unbelievable experience. It can be very, very challenging, but it’s one of those things that you’ll never forget. You’ll never get that time back with them. And you got to take advantage of every single day, particularly with somebody who, when I started, he’s 60 years into the practice. He’s got a wealth of knowledge, a wealth of experience. And I’m able to look on, I’m able to look back at his experiences, and figure out how to apply them to what I’m doing today. It’s such a cool experience. Yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [11:46]

that’s pretty awesome. And I just remember going to work with my dad, like, take your kid to work day. And he basically had me filing, filing for half the day to like ride. But it was always just so interesting to watch him kind of, you know, bring in his assistant and talk with other lawyers. And there was a lot of camaraderie around his office. And I was really, it was kind of impressive, because I hadn’t seen him in that sort of atmosphere. And I know, like, he was the president of our school board when I was a kid in junior high. And he was just so admired by the, you know, even though he was, you know, sometimes had to, you know, go go up against the union and deal with the teachers and all this stuff. And he was sort of a love, it was pretty, pretty cool to watch. And and teachers would come up to me and say, Oh, your dad’s Awesome. Okay, yeah. Okay. Don’t get on his bad side.


RJ Curcio  [12:31]

Anyway, so Zack, same experience,


Steve Fretzin  [12:33]

you know, I was just, I have to just share that, you know, in addition to being my friend, your recent graduate from my program, we spent the last I don’t know if it’s been about six, seven months, together eight months. And it’s just been an absolute pleasure. Because when I get someone that is young and moldable, and interested in learning and ambitious to grow, that’s like, to me a dream situation. And you know, Phil Jackson, Michael Jordan, whatever we want to call ourselves in this, you know, this legal business development space, you’ve been just outstanding. How do you find business development marketing? You know, being kind of an up and comer millennial, how does that How have you felt that to be, you know, kind of, in your experience leading up to, you know, today,


RJ Curcio  [13:15]

it’s extremely difficult to be honest. I’m at a point where I can’t rely on Joe the partner to bring in any, bring in a ton of business and to be able to support the firm single handedly. And I find that to be that it’s my responsibility to at least do my best to contribute. The hardest part is, I’m probably one of the first first generations to grow up where we had a lot of screen time, we didn’t have to go outside and play, we didn’t have those social experiences that maybe previous generations did. So your class has taught me a lot, I would never, they don’t teach you in school, whether it’s grade school, high school, college, law school, how to go out into network, they don’t teach you the right questions to, to make four minutes that you have with somebody at a cocktail party, a very effective and meaningful four minutes to be able to exchange that contact information with them. Those are tasks, those are skills that are only learned when you get to work with somebody who is as knowledgeable and as thorough as you. So now and you have to figure out how to brand yourself and go from there. It’s extremely difficult.


Steve Fretzin  [14:23]

Yeah. And so I think what we’re what we’re talking about is, you know, let’s look at, you know, planning and processes and systems and things that, you know, take away some of the winging it. You know, ideas are the word they’re just, you know, fly by the seat of your pants, and let’s get serious about achieving goals and following systems do it so it becomes more predictable. And again, I think you’ve been absolutely phenomenal at that.


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Steve Fretzin  [16:14]

There are some elements that you have worked on that have really impressed me. And I’d love for you to share that with people listening right now. One of them is, you know, what you consider to be some of the keys to developing that book of business when clients are mostly single engagement clients, you’re not getting the institutional clients that a transactional attorney would get or a banking attorney would get, obviously being in personal injury, you know, it’s like, Hey, you get somebody, you work with them. And then they get their, you know, hopefully get their settlement, the reward or whatever trial, and then you’re done. So how talk about building a book in that type of in that type of space?


RJ Curcio  [16:49]

Well, that’s one of the unique circumstances of being a plaintiff’s personal injury attorney, Steve, all of our clients are one to one, if we’re lucky. So knowing that a client is only going to be here, one time as a client, whether their stay is going to be six months, three years, whatever that may be, we have to figure out number one, okay, how do we get that client, a lot of that comes from networking. It comes from meeting other attorneys, it comes from going out with those attorneys making sure that they understand what we do, the value that we provide, who we’re really looking for, and understanding what we perceive to be the best fits for our firm. That also vote means going out with those other attorneys, getting them to coaching them up to give us some additional people that we can go to. One of the things that we’ve noticed is a lot of people get their personal injury attorney recommendations from other attorneys that they’ve worked with in different fields. So whether that’s family law, trusts, and estates, criminal attorneys, those are really good resources, but it takes time to go out to meet to develop a relationship with those people such that they trust you with people that they’ve worked with in the past.


Steve Fretzin  [17:57]

Right. And I think the one thing that we worked out together was that while all attorneys can refer a personal injury case, all right, there are certain types of attorneys that are more likely to run into it and run into maybe multiple times in the year than others. And so while we’d like to think that, you know, hey, I just need to meet attorneys, that’s fine that but if you’re looking to make the best use of your time, whether you’re at personal injury, estate planning, divorced, whatever specific, you know, practice area lane that you’re in, there are certain people that are more likely and I’ll give a quick example, from my legal recruiters, I probably get more referrals from legal recruiters than I do from let’s say, a legal software company. Okay, or like company that does, you know, some other, you know, service, you know, for for lawyers, because recruiters are in the trenches asking questions to people about their book of business and where they’re looking to go what they’re looking to do. Some cases, they’re they’re portable. In some cases, they’re not. Some cases are ready to move some cases, they want to try to salvage where they are. So it’s just it’s really thinking strategically about the lawyers you’re networking with. And realizing that there are certain areas and certain people that are better than others, right? That’s sort of the the takeaway is, that


RJ Curcio  [19:10]

that’s exactly it. The attorney who works with that corporate client that you were talking about, is not going to come across as many individuals as that trust in the state’s attorney, that criminal attorney, those are the same kinds of attorneys that we are where it’s a one to one interaction, they may come back to redo that client may come back to do redo their estate plan a few times. But that’s still a one to one interaction, that’s a person to a person. And just from the volume of that that’s the best way for us to be able to network amongst each other. I have clients that then I can send over and say, hey, this person is a really good estate planner, they’re going to be able to help you make sure that you and your family are taken care of should anything happened. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [19:49]

And the other thing I wanted to kind of ask you about because I think you have a really unique differentiator that you’ve used to set yourself apart. And I’d love for you to you know, there’s obviously you know, Some lawyers who have no differentiator, you know, they just go out and say I’m a lawyer that practices XYZ, this is what I do. This is what I do this what I do. Not very memorable. Okay. And there’s other people that have really made a name for themselves by focusing on a particular group, a particular type of angle, a direction, etc, to talk to me about kind of what separates you and what you’ve sort of figured out that is your differentiator.


RJ Curcio  [20:23]

Well, that’s something I learned from you, Steve, in your class. And the differentiator that I’ve kind of figured out for myself is, I’m a millennial, I’m a young attorney, there’s not that many millennial attorneys that are in leadership positions in personal injury firms in Chicago. So when you and I were working together, I looked around and I figured, figured out what makes this attorney special, what makes that attorney special. And what I realized, after looking at all these different law firms, all these different attorneys is that what makes me special is, I’m young, I understand, perhaps more, perhaps more than other attorneys, what these millennials, these Gen Z generations are looking for in their attorneys, what they want out of that customer service experience, which is ultimately what we provide, we’re here for you and your time of need. And a lot of that is that one to one experience, that customer service experience. So being a younger millennial, that’s what my differentiator is that I’ve determined, and I think we figured


Steve Fretzin  [21:19]

out people like themselves. And so, you know, there’s women that want to work with women, and there’s, you know, all minorities that want to work minorities, and there’s young people that want to work with young people. So it doesn’t mean that you can’t take on other stuff, it just means that you’re going to focus on a particular subset of people, where you have an advantage in the space because of your age in the way that you conduct yourself.


RJ Curcio  [21:42]

And that’s exactly it. You know, you may be a potential Personal Injury client. And when you look around, you may say, I want to go with RJ because of a certain reason. But you may also look around and you say, I want to go with this person, because I see myself in them. And ultimately, that’s what you look for as, as when you’re out there shopping for an attorney.


Steve Fretzin  [22:04]

I’m going to kind of pick on a subject that’s a little bit sensitive, and I don’t think you’re gonna have a hard time with it. Because, you know, you’re just being so straightforward about everything. But, you know, there’s, you know, I’m a Gen X, and there’s, you know, there’s even some older generations that struggle with the millennials, they struggle with sort of the, you know, the just the way that the millennials are perceived. And so I want you to just if you wouldn’t mind, just kind of, I don’t know if you want to defend millennials, if you want it because like, what I know of you and working with you work ethic is their intelligence is their, you know, your creativity is there. I mean, you’re like the total package of a person, not a millennial or any particular like age bracket or anything. But I think millennials I mean, I’m talking with a lot of older rainmaking and managing partner attorneys that, you know, they’re pretty negative about, you know, the millennial folks. So I don’t know if you can any be explained it or add some, some some details to that. So we just have some clarity about what’s going on.


RJ Curcio  [23:02]

Well, I think that it’s true of all millennials, the work ethic is there, the creativity is there. Everything that in past generations we’ve prided ourselves on is still there with millennials, it’s just different than it used to be. In today’s world, I can tell you that as a millennial, myself, I’m not as worried about going and meeting somebody in person face to face once or twice a year, what I want is accessibility. And from an employee employer standpoint as well, what Millennials want isn’t so much the freedom to do every single thing that they want to do outside of work, it’s that they want work to be accessible. So meaning, if I’m going to work, I want to be able to work. Not totally on my terms. But I want to be able to access that workplace, perhaps from home some days a week, perhaps be in the office a few days a week, perhaps have a couple of remote weeks, where I can go somewhere else to break up the monotony. It’s gray and cold in Chicago, I’d like to be able to go for a week in February, and just work in Florida where I can see the sun in order to break that monotony up. The work ethic is there. But it all comes down to accessibility. It’s not as much of that face to face. As far as creativity, you also have to understand where we’re coming from where the coloring book generation you pleased to put coloring books on the tables for us when we were kids. We want to have spaces that we can express our ideas in the same way that we did when we were children. So if you look around my office, I have four whiteboards in here that I use every single day. And if it’s a trucking case, a train case, whatever it is, I’m drawing diagrams, I’m trying to figure out the theory of liability in that case, but I’m doing it the way that I kind of grew up. So it comes down to understanding who your workforce is, who’s going to be a big part of that and how they want to operate. And ultimately, what you want to do is you want to make sure that you can provide those different options to that workforce in order to get the most out of them.


Steve Fretzin  [24:57]

Yeah, so it’s I think it sounds like not just the I I mean, this is what I’m what I’m taking is not just the, the flexibility and the remote in that. But I think also it’s like, what motivates you? What excites you? What, is there a mission? Is there? Is there something pulling you to want to work for? Is there? Is there a culture that you dig or enjoy? Or want to, you know, step up in? And so I think there’s I just said, dig Yes. You know, but is there you know, that’s an old? Yeah, no, that’s old school right there. I said, dig. But is that a part of it too, just like what’s motivating? Is that really a big part of it too?


RJ Curcio  [25:31]

Well, that’s exactly it’s the encoutered, you’re hitting the nail on the head there, it’s, we shouldn’t be trying to fit a round peg into a into a square hole, right, you know, or a square peg into a round hole, whichever way you want to put it, what we have to understand is, things are different today than they were in the 80s. Or in the 90s, when you first started working, we have to do our best to not just cater but to kind of restructure our corporate environments in order to get the most out of that particular workforce. And what we are looking for is that mission, that common goal, that collegiality, there has to be something that helps push us there, because that’s what we grew up with. That’s what school was all about. Teamwork, working in groups collaboration, how can we? How can we put that into the modern workforce? Because those are the skills that we were taught in grade school, high school, college? Got it?


Steve Fretzin  [26:24]

Well, really fantastic, man, I really, so much to share there. And let’s go, let’s move on to your game changing book, which is Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. So I’m not going to ask you what all seven habits are. But why is that a book that you really enjoyed and kind of put out in front of me to say, Hey, this is the book that I want to I want to talk about.


RJ Curcio  [26:41]

When I was in law school, it was the book that my mom bought for me. And it was a book that helped me kind of reduce that stress of how am I going to get all this work done? How am I going to find a job? How am I going to just live a life. And there were two habits in there that really spoke to me. The first one was, Seek first to understand then to be understood, meaning you have two ears and one mouth for a reason. You have to listen, not just talk. Listening is extremely important. Because if you can listen and you can understand what’s going on around you, then you can work to accomplish that goal, kind of like what we were just talking about. And then the second one is, and this also probably comes from Bill Belichick with the Patriots put the first thing first, you know, let’s focus on what we’re doing right here right now. And then move on to the next thing. What is what is top of mind what is the most important at this particular point? Instead of just constantly reacting to urgencies? It’s always a matter of put that first thing first and that’s especially true in the legal industry whether that deals with case management or business development Yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [27:57]

well really good stuff there. Yeah, that that books been around for a long time and for reason, man I think we all need to continue to develop positive habits and that’s what ends up you know, affecting our lives may be more than anything is positive habits. So if people want to reach out to you they want to network with you. They want to throw some work your way. They want to engage you in some way shape or form. What’s the best way for them to reach out RJ?


RJ Curcio  [28:19]

Yeah, so you can always reach out on our website which is Kersey Oh dash law.com that see you RFC I O dash La hyphen law, or just give us a call our number is 312-321-1111. That’s the most Chicago number that you can find probably


Steve Fretzin  [28:33]

just read my mind that anything 312 Is money, baby.


RJ Curcio  [28:37]

Yeah, just the top line, you don’t even need to go down to the line that starts with four, seven, you just stay right up there in the three one twos and you’re solid, that’s always going to be the best way to get a hold of us.


Steve Fretzin  [28:46]

That’s fantastic. And hey, before we wrap up, I just want to thank our wonderful sponsors. We’ve got practice Panther with the case management software, we’ve got money, Penny, doing the virtual reception and live chat on your website. And of course, legalese helping you with your marketing acting as your outsourced cmo and taking care of all the stuff that you shouldn’t be doing. If you’re a lawyer that’s busy. So check those guys out. RJ, you know, we’re not done with anything by a longshot. I think you’re transitioning over to the business developers roundtables. And so where I’m excited to have you transitioning over from one program to another wouldn’t maybe take 30 seconds on that. What do you think is going to happen in this roundtable? What are you hoping to get


RJ Curcio  [29:25]

out of it? What I’m hoping to do, Steve is just ultimately, make some new friends. Understand what a few other people do in the legal industry, and kind of continue to build that network and problem solve together, collaborate, figure out what’s this person dealing with, maybe I can apply the solution to their problem, to my problems that I have, or problems that I might have in the future, and ultimately get those tools that I need in order to be successful. So I know that that’s what we’re going to be able to do and that is what we did throughout your class. And I know that’s exactly how you set up the programs.


Steve Fretzin  [29:56]

Yeah, we’re going to be crowdsourcing Best Practices His roundtable laying challenges. I mean, it’s a really robust program. And I’m just so happy that we get to stick together and stay through that. And just appreciate all your wisdom and in the time that we had together and that continued into the future. So thanks so much, man. I appreciate it. Good stuff for having me on Steve. This was great. Yeah. And thank you everybody for spending some time with me and RJ today. Hopefully, you guys if you’re interested in networking with a young, ambitious, aggressive, wonderful person, RJ is the guy and, and just thank you for spending some time with us today on the show. And hopefully you got a couple of good tips and takeaways. And maybe you understand Millennials a little bit better than you used to, you know, I’m always learning every day about all the different generations and how we need to kind of, you know, adapt and change and alter to make sure that we’re really getting along, and that at the end of the day, that’s what life’s all about getting along. And you know, living the best life you can, and really about being that lawyer came full circle, someone who’s confident organized in the skilled Rainmaker, take care and be well everybody. We’ll talk again soon.


Narrator  [31:01]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fredson.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes