In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Rochelle Seltzer discuss:
- Embracing creativity for professional and personal growth
- Managing client relationships and workload creatively
- Building an authentic personal brand
- Unlocking creativity in structured professions
Key Takeaways:
- Lawyers can build a more fulfilling practice by choosing clients selectively, raising rates, and letting go of work that doesn’t align with their strengths, helping to prevent burnout.
- Short breaks throughout the day, even just to breathe or walk, help the right brain process information freely, often leading to “aha” moments that strict schedules may block.
- Starting the day with a quick intention, like five minutes of journaling, creates a mental foundation for openness, curiosity, and meaningful progress in both work and life.
- Reconnecting with personal interests, like gardening, music, or cooking, releases creative energy, boosts motivation, sparks new ideas, and adds enthusiasm to daily tasks.
“When you step one little baby step over your comfort zone—that line of your comfort zone—you’re already in a more creative space.” — Rochelle Seltzer
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Thank you to our Sponsors!
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Rainmakers Roundtable: https://fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/
Episode References:
10x Is Easier Than 2x by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy: https://www.amazon.com/10x-Easier-Than-World-Class-Entrepreneurs/dp/140196995X
About Rochelle Seltzer: Rochelle Seltzer is a Creative Core Coach, author of the highly acclaimed book, Live Big: A Manifesto for a Creative Life, and an international speaker. Her mission is to unleash the untapped creative capacity inside women (and men) everywhere. She coaches accomplished women, leads powerful retreats, and brings dynamic programs into companies. Her work enables women to show up boldly, bring all of their greatness into the world, have their biggest impact, and live their most fulfilling lives.
Connect with Rochelle Seltzer:
Website: https://www.rochelleseltzer.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@rochelleseltzercreativecoach
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rochelle-seltzer-coach/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seltzerrochelle/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey, my Be That Lawyer fans, are you struggling with the same uphill battle, growing new business without losing your sanity? It might be time management, a lack of a structured plan, or outdated business development strategies that are keeping you from reaching your full potential. But what if I told you there’s a better way?
[00:00:16] Steve Fretzin: In this exclusive, no presentation, no PowerPoint, interactive 60 minute session, you’ll work directly with me on your specific challenges. This event is a no brainer. Please join me on November 15th from 1 to 2 p. m. Central to level up your B. E. D. game. Seating is limited to only the first 20 attorneys who register, so get to it now.
[00:00:35] Steve Fretzin: Go to my website Fretzin. com slash events to sign up today and hope to see you there.
[00:00:44] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
[00:01:06] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Be That Lawyer with Fretzin podcast. I am so thrilled that you’re here. Twice a week, every week to bring you all the great hits of what’s going on to be your best lawyer self. And you know, my job again is to bring you great guests that are going to add value in your life.
[00:01:21] Steve Fretzin: And today is a hundred percent no different. I’ve got Rochelle waiting in the wings. How are you? How are you doing? Thrilled to be with you. Second time. You made it back.
[00:01:31] Rochelle Seltzer: Nice to be back.
[00:01:33] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Well, you did something right the first time I think is what this is about. Awesome. Awesome. Let’s start with our quote of the show and then we’ll jump in.
[00:01:40] Steve Fretzin: It’s allows you. Which he’s got to be dead, right? This is old. Pretty sure. All right, here we go. If you want to awaken all of humanity, then awaken all of yourself. So welcome to the show and why that quote and what does that quote kind of mean to you? What does it say to you?
[00:01:56] Rochelle Seltzer: Gosh, this is a perfect quote for me because the work that I do is all based on the power of creativity, which most people say, why does that matter to me?
[00:02:05] Rochelle Seltzer: The truth is that when you tap into that creative energy that is in you, and I’ll talk more about that in a little while, is where you really do wake yourself up and you wake up parts of yourself that you may rush through your day right now and not typically connect to. And when you really do connect your heart and have that energy that’s activated, you become a powerful creator and you have more energy for everything that you do.
[00:02:34] Steve Fretzin: I like the idea of Mark being creative and marketing. And I know that you can be creative as a lawyer in your, you know, briefs or in your closing arguments or there’s so many different ways. I mean, my father, the great Larry, the lawyer, I remember I gave him a 12 page document to review. He gave me 15 pages of changes and notes.
[00:02:53] Steve Fretzin: And some of them were incredibly creative, the things that he was trying to do. And yet, I’ll tell you a quick little thing, he ended up getting me like a 20, 000 parking spot because he put in the contract in this condo that if the person didn’t sell the extra space within a year, then it gets automatically transitioned over to me.
[00:03:11] Steve Fretzin: And I remember the guy called me up like 13 months later and I knew the date and he’s like, Oh, you ready to buy my spot? I was like, you mean my spot? And we got in a big fight. It was great. But that’s the kind of creativity that I think lawyers can appreciate. But I personally am a fan of coming up with an idea that on a post or on a subject or on an article or something that I can take from real life and use.
[00:03:31] Steve Fretzin: Is that, I mean, is that what you’re talking about?
[00:03:33] Rochelle Seltzer: I mean, I started out thinking about our conversation in terms of how lawyers tend to, you know, lean hard into their left brains. It’s what are the facts and what are the, you know, what’s the law. Right. Yeah. And the truth is that You can bring a lot of creative possibility into that part, which your story just perfectly illustrated.
[00:03:56] Rochelle Seltzer: I love that story, right? So what are the other options or what are the extra ways of thinking about this or, you know, that we can creatively maximize, you know, the best outcomes. And we do live in an era where people are posting and being visible in a way that maybe five years ago lawyers never thought about.
[00:04:17] Rochelle Seltzer: Yeah. And when you think about the personal brand and the way that you show up in the world, that you can use a lot of creative energy instead of feeling like there’s a formula, I got to stick to a formula or not really showing your full personality. So yeah, I love that idea. Really stepping into a creative mindset in the way that you show up.
[00:04:38] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and I want to get into the weeds on how lawyers can become more creative. They have it inside of them It’s how do they guess how to let it out and before we get to that I want to of course introduce you in a more full way. Rochelle Seltzer. Everybody is the president of Rochelle Seltzer creative core coach and second time on the show and give us a little bit of background because it is not in the area that you’re in so much.
[00:05:02] Steve Fretzin: I mean, it is and it isn’t. That’s what makes it unique.
[00:05:06] Rochelle Seltzer: So I started coaching over a decade ago after I sold a business that I owned for 27 years. Funny enough, I was in marketing and design, so it ties into your first part of our conversation. I sold that business when I realized that, there’s a good backstory to that, but when I realized that it wasn’t really lighting me up anymore.
[00:05:26] Rochelle Seltzer: And at the same time that I had that realization, even though I was an award winning designer, I also realized. That I had a big personal creative block about anything that wasn’t right in my design lane, you know, that I loved, but, and so I decided that it was time to figure that out. And it was taking this deep dive for a couple of years of study with a brilliant teacher that I realized that I didn’t know the beginning about creativity.
[00:05:52] Rochelle Seltzer: I had like a sliver of awareness. And so I built this coaching practice to help other people activate the creativity that we are all filled with. We all came into the world filled with it. That most of us either deny or minimize or we’re told not practical or told it’s not important or whatever it might be and to realize that we have this extra asset that we can take advantage of and so I’m using it to help people live their best lives.
[00:06:22] Rochelle Seltzer: Do their best work light themselves up and have their biggest impact in the world.
[00:06:26] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, that’s what I mean in creativity isn’t just coming up with a design or coming up with an idea or a way of doing something or expressing yourself. I think it also can be how you solve a problem, right? I mean, it’s like lawyers have time management issues.
[00:06:46] Steve Fretzin: They’re busier than they’ve ever been. Sometimes just, it’s how you creatively solve the time management issue of getting, you know, more support or turning work away that maybe isn’t the best work for you. Like there’s so many ways to skin that cat.
[00:07:01] Rochelle Seltzer: Yeah. I have a whole keynote called Live Big Without Sacrifice.
[00:07:05] Rochelle Seltzer: And one big section in the middle is about how do we multiply time?
[00:07:09] Steve Fretzin: There
[00:07:11] Rochelle Seltzer: are ways to do that. There are ways to approach your whole life that are not like, Oh, I should take a better path, you know, time management or so I can be more productive and squeeze all that productivity out of every minute. It’s creating space.
[00:07:25] Steve Fretzin: Yeah.
[00:07:26] Rochelle Seltzer: It’s for the creative thinking space for yourself to thrive that you all of a sudden the best ideas will show up and the most. Meaningful things will show up and you will be happier. I mean, we can talk about setting boundaries. We can talk about all different ways that we can help people to create that space.
[00:07:44] Rochelle Seltzer: Ultimately, that’s where you can really connect to who you are and not feel like you’re just running on a hamster wheel like a machine.
[00:07:51] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, we call it the billable hour hamster wheel for lawyers. Yeah, that’s what we can actually have a look. Not at EIVL. An image that I put up in my post occasionally where it’s a person in a suit running on a wheel.
[00:08:05] Steve Fretzin: And I feel bad. I feel bad. It’s like
[00:08:07] Rochelle Seltzer: makes you choke with stress just to think
[00:08:09] Steve Fretzin: about it. Oh, yeah. It’s just as hard as they can run to get the work in and weekends and evenings, it just never ends. And it’s just dumping on top of them. And, you know, as much as I say, you know, Hey, we got to focus on business development.
[00:08:22] Steve Fretzin: It’s like, that’s so far away from what they can handle because they’re, I just spoke to a friend of mine the other day and I said, Hey, business development. She goes, I can’t even think about that because I have so many, so much business and it’s great that they have all this business. It’s to the degree where they can’t breathe and they can’t take breaks and they can’t really, you know, enjoy life because they’re just crushed.
[00:08:43] Steve Fretzin: And it’s, a lot of it has to do with the lack of creativity. In delegation or figuring out, you know, yeah, I know it’s hard to hire people. There are other ways to go. You know, you can raise rates and get rid of some weaker clients. You can fire some clients that are crazy and take them off your plate. You can hand them off to other law firms and say, look, I, you know.
[00:09:03] Steve Fretzin: I’m getting help on this by someone, another firm, a teammate of mine, whatever it might be. So, but let’s get into the weeds here. I mean, why does creativity matter and how can getting more creative be helpful to a lawyer? I know we kind of already started down that path, but let’s finish that story. Yeah, we
[00:09:18] Rochelle Seltzer: really did because lawyers are so logical and they lean on the, you know, the details.
[00:09:26] Rochelle Seltzer: There’s sort of this concept of the right brain the left brain. So the right brain is the part that usually gets neglected. So the left brain is really busy with all the data and all the facts and all the strategies and all those things. And it’s the right brain. It’s funny the way it operates. It needs a little bit of spaciousness to your point of not being jammed all the time.
[00:09:48] Rochelle Seltzer: When you can create short breaks, short ways to pause and breathe, much less take a walk to the corner and back, you know. You know, eat your lunch instead of at your desk and, and multitasking. Like really sit and taste the food and chew it and digest it and give you, what happens is the right brain picks up all that little factual stuff on the left side and it can play and it can connect dots in a way.
[00:10:17] Rochelle Seltzer: Thank you That when you’re rushing through your day, it never happens. And that’s where the aha moments can come from. And that’s where big things can happen that otherwise would never show up. And the other thing is that I teach people that if creativity feels scary for you, the idea of what most people think of as creative, Oh, you’ve got to be super talented and you’ve got to be, you know, brilliant, I don’t know, artist or musician or writer or something.
[00:10:45] Rochelle Seltzer: And that’s what creativity is. And the truth is you can start with just how you think, and lawyers are big thinkers, right? So, one of the things I teach is that the words reaction and creation have the same letters. Wow. What do most of us do? We react on the fly all the time. React all day. Funny? React, react, react.
[00:11:06] Rochelle Seltzer: So if you take a beat, really just a brief pause, and say, wait, what else is possible right now? Yeah. Yeah. What can I create to solve this problem? What’s a better way to amplify an opportunity? You know, if you slow down and you listen to your client enough that you get in touch with what the spidey sense is from your gut, your intuition, I go, wait a minute, what am I hearing here?
[00:11:30] Rochelle Seltzer: That’s going to help me devise the best, whatever big things change. So that’s just an easy starting point that I think is not scary and that really people can take to heart.
[00:11:42] Steve Fretzin: Yeah.
[00:11:43] Rochelle Seltzer: How can I just not stop reacting as much?
[00:11:46] Steve Fretzin: Is that sort of the first step to tapping creativity, is to take that breath and take that break and give yourself some
[00:11:53] Rochelle Seltzer: time?
[00:11:54] Rochelle Seltzer: I believe it is. I think slowing down, and that’s why getting off the hamster wheel and all the ways you talked about it takes me back to my business days when I knew we took on clients that weren’t the perfect clients. But, you know, there was always a reason why my left brain overrode my intuition.
[00:12:09] Rochelle Seltzer: Maybe there’s a red flag here. And you learn over time that when you’re selective and you take on the right work and you don’t cram your days that way, you’re going to do better. Better things are going to happen. And yes, raise your rates if that’s what it takes. If you’re so busy, be more selective about who you work with.
[00:12:27] Rochelle Seltzer: Do the projects that you love that are really squarely in your zone of genius. Then you can create the space. And not feel so pressured to be able to think like a creator and when you start thinking like a creator and actually consider that word, how am I creating now? What am I creating now? Maybe you’ve got terrible alternatives in front of you, but which is the better one?
[00:12:51] Rochelle Seltzer: And what’s the next step to take? That’s the best step you can take and then keep creating the next step after that. Okay. So whole day can be filled with creativity.
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[00:13:08] Steve Fretzin: The best firms hire Rankings. io when they want rankings traffic in cases other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver. Get more rankings, get cases, and schedule a free consultation at Rankings. io today. Hey everybody, Steve Fretzin here. Man, I thought I was a good marketer, but maybe not. Lawyers have been approaching me asking, what’s the Rainmakers Roundtable?
[00:13:30] Steve Fretzin: Well, I tell them this is a special place created exclusively for rainmaking lawyers to continue their journey of prosperity. Our program is unique as every member has a significant book of business and is motivated to grow it year after year. Where else does this exist? If you’re a managing partner who’s looking to get off your lonely island and talk shopping,
[00:13:57] Steve Fretzin: So obviously I’m leaning in on the BD and the marketing for lawyers, that’s kind of my jam. And so I know one of the challenges that they have is they want to get active on social media. They understand that’s important. They understand. And they’ve heard me say, you’re either, you know, playing the game or you’re sitting on the sidelines.
[00:14:14] Steve Fretzin: And if you’re sitting on the sidelines, you know, you’re not going to get, you know, everyone’s passing you by and everyone’s getting ahead. And in that space, but I think their concern is that they don’t know where to start or they don’t know What creatively they can put together that’s going to be meaningful because they don’t just want to put out something You know, either too personal or maybe something that’s really crappy or something that, you know, has been said a hundred times.
[00:14:38] Steve Fretzin: So what do you kind of, how do you recommend they work through that?
[00:14:41] Rochelle Seltzer: Well, first of all, maybe not take it so seriously and just take a little bit of a risk. Okay. I always say when you step one little baby step over your comfort zone, that line of your comfort zone, you’re already in a more creative space.
[00:14:54] Rochelle Seltzer: Okay. Because you’re, the world is not going to fall apart if you don’t put a great post up when you get started. You’ll learn as you go. And I think what I love is seeing people who show up authentically, maybe they take a little snippet of a life experience and they make the connection to what their expertise is in the law.
[00:15:14] Rochelle Seltzer: You know, just find ways to play with those things and to show up a little bit more as a human and not just as a lawyer. So people do business with people that they relate to and that they like. So let a little bit of yourself show up. And test the waters and play with it. Look for posts from other people that you admire.
[00:15:35] Rochelle Seltzer: What can that inspire in you? What can that kind of give you a. A little moment of, Oh, I could do something like that. It will be completely different because you’ll put your own content in, but start collecting. I make screenshots on my phone sometimes or my computer when I come up with things that people have posted on LinkedIn that I think are really, really well done.
[00:15:56] Rochelle Seltzer: Yeah. I do
[00:15:57] Steve Fretzin: the same thing that I send them to my marketing person and he doesn’t do anything with them. Like, I guess I got to do it myself. That being said, he’s got about a thousand things on his plate. So I’m just like dumping stuff on top of that. But I think getting ideas from other people that you can then alter in your own way is still creative.
[00:16:18] Steve Fretzin: I mean, you’re not just copying someone, you’re taking in a concept. Of someone walking down the street talking into their phone about their day or about their potential solution and you’re doing it your way, you know, it’s, it’s still creative. You still have to be creative and doing that, but I also like the idea of doing something very different like that.
[00:16:35] Steve Fretzin: No one is doing and that could be in an article that I’m writing because no one’s writing. Like I wrote an article about fishing. I went out fishing with my father in law. And as we’re taking the boat out on the lake, I start jotting down in my phone some ideas about how this is similar to business development and fishing and business development.
[00:16:55] Steve Fretzin: All right. Like I’m the only one doing that. No one else is going to write that type article the way I’m writing
[00:17:00] Rochelle Seltzer: that in cool ways. It will never sound like yours. But connecting the dots, where do you see ways that this relates to, I don’t know, intellectual property law or defense or whatever you do?
[00:17:12] Steve Fretzin: Right, right, right. And the other idea I had recently was, I’m going to do some like Q& A, like here are the lawyers toughest questions they have for me as a coach. And write them all down and then one by one go through them on my phone and like do a video but I was gonna actually like hold my cat or hold my dog and just like kind of Show the more personal side because i’m home alone with these animals all day and i’m working a lot But guess what when I take my breaks i’m down there with a ribbon playing with the cat i’m taking the dog for a walk like i’m having a whole like Animal experience like a little mini zoo here at the Fretzin household and it’s a lot of fun and it really does You know relax me So I thought maybe i’d bring that into the mix and I don’t know how many people are doing Business videos where they’re holding, you know, their cat or something like that.
[00:17:56] Steve Fretzin: I’m not committing to that by the way. I’m just saying I thought about it, but
[00:17:59] Rochelle Seltzer: what I’m observing is that you’re taking a playful, expressive, fun, what if kind of approach to thinking about it and that first
[00:18:08] Steve Fretzin: step. Yeah. Okay. Well feed that further. So somebody, what are some either exercises or something that you would put a client through to try to draw out creativity?
[00:18:18] Steve Fretzin: Let’s give everybody a little sample. How
[00:18:21] Rochelle Seltzer: about this? You could be someone who loves to dig in your garden. I don’t love to dig in a garden, but I have plenty of people that I know that they find that that just is their best way to spend time. You can be a person who always follows a recipe or never follows a recipe and just is intuitive in the kitchen.
[00:18:40] Rochelle Seltzer: So you can just, whatever you like, let’s say intuitively putting food together, do more of that. If you always follow the recipe, what if you just deviate a little bit? You know, add that extra ingredient, substitute something out, what if you think about, because we all have to eat, those of us who don’t order food all the time, what if you just think about what are the most beautiful colors that I can plan in the same salad or the same meal and put it in the most beautiful presentation and invite people over and make it visually beautiful.
[00:19:15] Rochelle Seltzer: There’s small ways, if you love to do stuff with your hands, do more of it. Could be crafting, could be building in a workshop, it could be anything. Do the things, do more of the things, let’s say, begin or add to the things that just light you up and make you happy.
[00:19:31] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. But I think, but the other side effect I think you’re getting to this is.
[00:19:36] Steve Fretzin: It also helps you to release the creativity that you’re bundling inside or that you’re hiding inside, digging into the work all day. Or
[00:19:44] Rochelle Seltzer: that you think doesn’t matter, but it does matter,
[00:19:46] Steve Fretzin: right? Yeah.
[00:19:47] Rochelle Seltzer: What do you have time for? Because you don’t think it’s important. Yeah. What I see all the time is how much energy people then start to bring to everything.
[00:19:58] Rochelle Seltzer: And people around you feel that energy. They notice it. You’re more magnetic. You’re more lit up. You’re more excited. You’re more curious. You’re everything. It’s kind of activated in a great way. I
[00:20:11] Steve Fretzin: love that. And I, I don’t know. I mean, I, I think part of, I think the creative side of my business is the most enjoyable thing.
[00:20:19] Steve Fretzin: I mean, I love coaching lawyers and there’s a creativity to that, right? Because I’m solving problems and I’m coming up with creative solutions and I’m working them through. Maybe putting it back on them so that they can solve it. And I just was the one who pulled it out of them. So I didn’t have to write and they, they knew the answer.
[00:20:36] Steve Fretzin: It was just inside of that
[00:20:37] Rochelle Seltzer: question that you never thought to ask before because you’re in the
[00:20:41] Steve Fretzin: flow. Yeah. Like, all right. So I get all this stuff is going on. What do you think is really holding you back? And then I get a real answer and it’s like their head explodes, my head explodes. And we’re both looking at each other.
[00:20:51] Steve Fretzin: Like, all right, now we have something on the table. Yeah. Now we have something on the table. We can dig in further. Ultimately, I think it’s important for people to get into that creative thinking, but what can people expect when they start doing things that are creative and being, expressing themselves more than maybe they currently are?
[00:21:13] Steve Fretzin: They’re not bringing out all of the joy and all of the expression they can.
[00:21:18] Rochelle Seltzer: What I see over and over again is how it changes conversations, changes thinking. It changes, as I said, the energy, it brings a whole new kind of perspective to something you never had before, and all sorts of possibilities can open up, and being aware that you’re kind of creating the conditions for that to happen, that in itself is energizing.
[00:21:44] Rochelle Seltzer: So I would suggest just one little thing that might help people. I’m a big. Advocate of having some kind of morning practice to set up your day.
[00:21:54] Steve Fretzin: Yeah.
[00:21:54] Rochelle Seltzer: In a good frame of mind for the day. And spend, I don’t know, turn on your timer, spend five minutes just writing. So let’s say you wake up in the morning and you’re feeling really psyched about something that’s going to happen.
[00:22:07] Rochelle Seltzer: Write about that and write about what that can look like in your day. Maybe you wake up in the morning and you’re still remembering a conversation you had with a sibling the night before where they were upset about something that’s active, you know, it’s still like in you. Work that through with a friend.
[00:22:23] Rochelle Seltzer: As you write and give yourself a clean slate and set some intention for your day to be open, to be curious, to have, have fun, to experiment, whatever it might be. You start your day with a foundation and an intention has so much possibility. And I think it’s a very small thing to bring into your morning, and it can be really, really powerful.
[00:22:49] Rochelle Seltzer: It can change your whole day.
[00:22:50] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I love that. Something I do too is, I’m sharing a lot about myself, I guess, today, but is I find something really funny and I don’t really tell anyone about it. But I write it down in my phone and I just feel like it’s something I may come back to. It’s like, but it’s something like, you know, I found it funny and here’s my take on it.
[00:23:11] Steve Fretzin: And it’s just a couple sentences, but I just feel like just making sure that something funny doesn’t get by me, that it might be something I’m never, you know, I don’t know ever how I’m going to use it or how I’m going to share it or whatever that means. But I have like 20 or 30 things in my phone that I found funny and wrote a little bit about it.
[00:23:29] Steve Fretzin: But I mean, to me, that also feels like something creative or just a way to kind of, you know, see something and make a funny, I’m not Jerry Seinfeld, but like make an observation. about something that I find amusing. So I don’t know if that does that fit into the,
[00:23:43] Rochelle Seltzer: I, you know, I do something similar. I don’t know what it is when I’m washing and brushing, washing my face, brushing my teeth in the morning.
[00:23:49] Rochelle Seltzer: I tend to get these ideas that just pop in. Cause I listen to music. I don’t listen to news in the morning. And cause I find that that sets me up also for a much better day. And I leave myself voice memos. Quick ideas. I love that. Capture those snippets before they evaporate. And sometimes they turn into an article I’ll write or a post I’ll make and sometimes they’re just there to delight me.
[00:24:14] Steve Fretzin: Or to
[00:24:14] Rochelle Seltzer: remind me of something that I was thinking about where you then get to Bring that into some part of your thinking in the day
[00:24:21] Steve Fretzin: or
[00:24:21] Rochelle Seltzer: a week later or whatever. Yeah.
[00:24:24] Steve Fretzin: So is there one more tip you would give for people who are listening to this and they go I’m like the least creative person I know like they’re just like They’re just like they’re book smart, you know compliant order, you know orderly people right very organized, but don’t necessarily feel like they have a creative side.
[00:24:44] Steve Fretzin: I think my invitation is
[00:24:45] Rochelle Seltzer: to re examine that assumption and to recognize in yourself, maybe there was a way that you used to have fun when you were a little kid that you just shut down. Maybe there was an experience you had last week with friends at a party that to think of anything that lights you up or has lit you up in the past.
[00:25:08] Rochelle Seltzer: And play with that piece of information about yourself. And how can I have more of that in my life? And how can I show up in a way where, let’s say I did show up, forget alcohol, but show up authentically at a party. How can I bring a little bit of that part of myself into the rest of my professional life and really show up?
[00:25:31] Steve Fretzin: And I can see somebody real quick. I can see somebody who maybe was in the band or marching band or something in high school, but gave up music. Yes. Maybe start playing again.
[00:25:41] Rochelle Seltzer: Absolutely. I had a client once who had played the clarinet, and she hadn’t picked up that instrument in 20 years, and she actually was afraid to pick it up, but she started listening to classical music on her commute, and then she started singing, and then, you know, she just woke up that part of herself that had been dormant, and it made a big, big difference.
[00:26:03] Rochelle Seltzer: Yeah. In her own spirit and in the way she showed up and the way she was leading and the way people responded to her, it truly can start small and really expand to be a meaningful part of your life.
[00:26:16] Steve Fretzin: Very cool. Everybody listening, I hope you’re taking notes or taking heed here what Michelle is saying.
[00:26:21] Steve Fretzin: There’s opportunities to, you know, come outside of yourself and to really wake yourself up and bring some energy that maybe you currently don’t have to the table. Probably give you some, you know, rippling effects that will, you know, put out in your life. And thank you so much. Let’s go to our game changing book.
[00:26:38] Steve Fretzin: Ten times is easier than two times. The old Dan Sullivan and Ben Hardy Scripture, if you will. Talk to us a little bit about that book. It’s a very very popular book. I’ve
[00:26:50] Rochelle Seltzer: I am personally really, I’m reading it, listening to it for the third time on Audible. It’s so good. And I’m really getting more particular about the message.
[00:27:00] Rochelle Seltzer: And the message is, most of us spend our time trying to 2x what we’re doing. And the truth is that when you focus on what’s that 10x goal. That would be just tremendous. It doesn’t mean you have to do it in two weeks or two years, but what is that goal? And then what are you going to let go of, defer or drop so that your energy is focused on what’s going to have that big impact
[00:27:23] Steve Fretzin: in
[00:27:23] Rochelle Seltzer: your career, in your life.
[00:27:24] Rochelle Seltzer: And I think that there’s tremendous wisdom there because it includes a lot of what we talked about, letting things go or deferring them to or delegating them to other people to do. So that you are in your genius zone and really moving towards something that’s super exciting for you. Does everybody want to do this?
[00:27:46] Rochelle Seltzer: No, but for people who really do want to embrace this idea, this book is a great guide to how to think about it and how to activate that, that reality.
[00:27:55] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, fantastic. So as we wrap up, I want to thank our sponsors in particular. I want to thank rankings. io. They are a phenomenal sponsor. They just got done doing their PymCon conference and everyone that I talked to that went said it was top notch and first class and all of that.
[00:28:12] Steve Fretzin: And if you guys are interested in building your website, your SEO, and just making sure you’re getting leads in the door, you’re going to want to check out rankings. io online. And check out Lawher, empowering women to shatter conventions and rebuild success in their own image. And also, most, many of you know about sales free selling.
[00:28:28] Steve Fretzin: I talk about it quite a bit on the show. And if you’re interested in coming to one of my sales free selling classes, I teach every Tuesday morning, eight to nine 30 central. It’s an opportunity to audit, to meet my clients, to understand like what am I teaching lawyers every single week that’s helping them to grow, double and triple their books over a short period of time, year or two.
[00:28:47] Steve Fretzin: And you just have to email me at steve at Fretzin. com or you can go to my website and fill out the form, whatever you’d like to do. We will get together and then get you into that class so you can check out what’s going on there. Take Rochelle, if people want to get in touch with you, they want to hear more about how to unleash their creative opportunities, what are the best ways for them to reach you?
[00:29:06] Rochelle Seltzer: My website is my name, RochelleSeltzer. com, and the book that you can sort of see over my shoulder this way, Live Big, A Manifesto for a Creative Life, you can learn about the book there, too, and see about all the work that I do, and honestly, Steve, my favorite thing is to be in conversation with people, so, I always
[00:29:24] Steve Fretzin: welcome that.
[00:29:25] Steve Fretzin: I’m glad that we did that today. And I appreciate you sharing your wisdom with everybody. And again, you know, just getting everybody’s blood flowing about how to be more creative and how that can really enhance our lives. I think there’s nothing more exciting than coming up with an idea or exploring new possibilities.
[00:29:39] Steve Fretzin: So thank you so much. Appreciate it.
[00:29:42] Rochelle Seltzer: Well, thanks for having me.
[00:29:44] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And thank you everybody for spending time again on the Be That Lawyer with Fretzin podcast. We are here again every week, twice a week to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled rainmaker. Take care everybody. Be safe.
[00:29:54] Steve Fretzin: Be well. We will talk again very soon.
[00:30:01] Narrator: Thanks for listening. To Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin. com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.