In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Seth Price discuss:
- Challenges of marketing and business development for lawyers and law firms
- Strategic differences between B2B and B2C legal marketing
- Importance of content creation and personal branding in legal marketing
- Lessons from entrepreneurial growth and mistakes in legal and digital ventures
Key Takeaways:
- Lawyers in B2B markets should avoid SEO as a first strategy and instead build relationships through networking, targeted events, or personalized outreach.
- Creating consistent, niche-specific content on LinkedIn is a powerful yet underutilized strategy for establishing authority in legal fields.
- Delegating legal versus business responsibilities within a firm can allow for more focused and scalable growth, as seen in the speaker’s dual-leadership model.
- Trying to network with senior lawyers often yields less return than building long-term relationships with peers who grow into referral sources over time.
“If you create great content over time… you may not get a ton of interaction, but the people that are interested are going to find it, and you’re going to be that guy.” — Seth Price
Unlock the secrets of the industry’s top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
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About Seth Price: Seth Price is a seasoned marketing and branding expert with over two decades of experience in digital marketing. He has consulted for more than 300 companies, including 19 of the Fortune 500, and has helped build four multimillion-dollar companies from the ground up. As VP of Marketing at Placester, he has guided tens of thousands of real estate professionals through social media and content strategies, and he also founded the Real Estate Marketing Academy, which reaches over 75,000 marketers monthly. A recognized thought leader, Seth is a frequent keynote speaker and contributor to outlets like Entrepreneur, Forbes, and REALTOR.com. He is also the author of The Road to Recognition, a go-to guide for building personal brands in the digital age.
Connect with Seth Price:
Website: https://pricebenowitz.com/
Book: The Road to Recognition: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Recognition-Z-Accelerating-Professional/dp/1940858364
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethprice
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey everybody. Before we get to the show, I want to mention again that yours truly, Steve Fretzin will be speaking at pimcon. I will be on the stage with some of the biggest players in legal, and this is a conference where it’s your backstage pass to the personal injuries verticals, biggest players and lots and lots of new relationships that you can develop. Check it [email protected] p, i, m, c o n, dot, O, R, G, that’s all for today. Enjoy the show.
Narrator [00:29]
You’re listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:51]
Hey everybody, Steve Fretzin, welcome back to the be that lawyer Podcast. I’m so happy that you’re with us. If you guys haven’t figured it out yet, we’ve got the podcast, we’ve got YouTube videos. We’ve we’re all over LinkedIn. We’ve got above the law. We are everywhere. We’ve got the new book. I don’t know if you’ve seen this Seth, new book, right? 101 top Rainmaker, secrets to growing successful law practice. It’s all in there. If you want to learn from the best and brightest, you’re going to want to check that out and welcome to the show, man, it’s good to see you.
Seth Price [01:19]
Good to see you.
Steve Fretzin [01:20]
Yeah, yeah. We’re gonna have some fun today.
Seth Price [01:22]
Absolutely.
Steve Fretzin [01:23]
All right, that’s the name of the game. Fun and actionable tips for our audience members who are so hungry for knowledge that they’re taking up their busy day to hang out with us. So let’s start off with a quote. This is a very this is biblical. This is going back to ancient times. Nothing’s easy. That’s the quote she gave me. Nothing’s easy.
Seth Price [01:41]
You know, every time is, you know, it’s like I have not one but two entrepreneurial ventures, the law firm in blue shark digital, you know, one has two other employees, and there’s 100 you know, hundreds of clients between them. Every stuff happens every day. I just, just before I got on here, a favorite, friend and mentor thought that misunderstanding and thought that he’d been dispersed. And like, Nothing’s easy. You you’re working with an employee. You think things are great. And then there’s a, it just it is a, you know, two step forward, one step back. But anytime you think you got it all figured out, you’re probably about to get smack in the head.
Steve Fretzin [02:15]
Well, you actually have a resolution for you that you might like. There’s a little red button that you just put in front of you, and you hit it and everything that says the easy button. I found that that works really well.
Seth Price [02:26]
You know, I wish, but, you know, doesn’t work like that. Yeah, look, I have one lawyer by firm, and they are notorious. They’re amazing. They do incredible volume, but they’ve not been able to hold on to an associate, almost like Murphy Brown style and like, it’s almost like this revolving door. And I’m like, you know, the worst thing is, when you you know, you just don’t want to make the same mistake twice, they say, and when you’re making it for the third or fourth time, you’re like, what’s wrong with me? Yeah, or, you know. So anyway, I think that, you know, the flip side of this is that, if it was easy, everybody be doing it. There we go. I wouldn’t have 50 learners. We wouldn’t have 300 clients at blue shark. But you know, thankfully, it is difficult. It isn’t easy, and therefore it gives us a little bit of a moat separating us from the world.
Steve Fretzin [03:08]
Yeah but I think you kind of nailed it in that, you know, like mistakes and problems, they’re going to happen all the time. It’s like, A, how we deal with it, and B, what did we learn from it? Right? And if we keep making mistakes over and over, you know, I’ve been punched in the face a few times, and then I just keep getting punched in the face, probably not. Maybe I should learn how to duck right, like at some point you got to stop getting punched in the face. So awesome to have you here for everybody listening. Seth Price is the managing partner of price benewitz, and also the founder of blue shark. Digital love to hear you share your background with everybody in running two, you know, sizable organizations and how that all came to be.
Seth Price [03:43]
Sure. So I started out, I went to law school, started, you know, went practice, because there was, you know, came out when there weren’t a lot of great opportunities in the mid 90s, and sort of hid in a big law firm for a while. Was not great at it, didn’t love it. And late 90s, the.com bubble came up where the internet was a thing, and went to New York to make my fortune and started a company that was founding employee for something called us law.com and when the public and the Internet burst, licked my wounds after one of my mistakes we talk about later, and ended up starting the law firm with my college law school buddy, Dave Benowitz. So over 20 years, we built Price Benowitz from a two lawyer firm to a 50 lawyer firm leverage in digital marketing. And then 10 years ago, I took the in house digital team that was responsible for building Price Benowitz into the juggernaut that it became, and that became blue shark, which now represents about 300 law firms nationwide for search and local search.
Steve Fretzin [04:43]
Yeah. So what do you think then, being in the space? I mean, you have a unique perspective, as you know, a managing partner of a law firm and as the founder of a digital company, to kind of really see the mistakes that are being made by lawyers and law firms today. I mean, why do you feel like they struggle so. So much with the marketing side of things?
Seth Price [05:02]
Well, I think from day one at my firm, I divided and conquered, where I focused 100% on marketing and management and operations, and my law partner, Dave, was the chief legal officer, and he worried about that stuff. Great. So that allowed for it. But I think it’s that pull and time that a lot of people are the practitioner, and yet they have to be able to do all these other things, and that’s not easy. And then, you know, there are people that get it and those that don’t. So first you have to have the bandwidth. And then if you do have the bandwidth, are you allocating things properly, and are you focused on something and digging deep, or are you going after chasing shiny objects. I see a lot of words chasing shiny objects, and that’s not a great thing, either. So there’s a time and place for everything you know your podcast has helped you build your business, your empire, whereas there are other people where it does nothing. I think understanding what you do, I’ll give you a great example. If you’re doing blue collar criminal while a podcast is cool, it’s very hard to bring on a local criminal practice to be able to network yourself to wealth and riches. It’s, it’s really, you know, less of a marketed game. Whereas, let’s say you were a local, trusted estates lawyer using the B to C world. You know, podcasts are amazing for a lot of reasons, but if you brought on a different financial advisor every week. Those are all potential sources, and there’s a direct correlation. So I think it’s allocating your time and resources wisely based on what you want to accomplish. And you know, there are a lot of people out there that either don’t put any resources behind it or time A and then B. Those that do, are you allocating the resources effectively?
Steve Fretzin [06:43]
Yeah, although I have an idea, if you are a criminal attorney, maybe bring on like detectives and cops to tell their craziest criminal stories, and maybe you’ll pick up some.
Seth Price [06:52]
But it, but maybe it isn’t a business model like you know, if you did that for a year, would you pick up a case or two, maybe. But if you took that, save time, money and resources and put that into some sort of my opinion, search marketing there, I would recommend it. When a B to B lawyer comes to me and says, Hey, should I do SEO? I’m like, Absolutely not. Not first, at least, right. You do that with but have you? Do you have season tickets to a game to bring people to the games? Do you have a podcast? Are you doing a breakfast meeting where you bring people together with speakers like, what are you doing if you’re in a B to B space, I always say, how many potential clients do you have? And if it’s 60 in your entire metro that could make you money? You should have a list of those 60. You should be doing lunches and dinners at ball games, and one by one, that means that 60, if you touch two people a day, every two months, you’ve touched somebody in that circle. And so the idea is, is it finite? Is it medium sized? You know, what is it that you’re trying to accomplish? My point on criminal is, you know, for example, people don’t generally ask for referrals that they do sometimes, but search is so dominant in that space, you know, versus other areas like a personal injury, where it could be searched, it could be TV, it could be referrals. They all work. But if you’re in a space where referrals are much less likely, then you know you want to put you could do it, but it’s less likely to show success.
Steve Fretzin [08:15]
But what it sounds like is that everyone’s got to a figure out, you know, either what they enjoy, who their clients are, who their referral sources are, what you know, and go where that action is and not try to just mirror other people or do what everyone else is doing. So I’m doing podcasting. Everyone should do a podcast. No, that’s not the case, right? It’s going to be based. I mean, if you want to do a podcast because it’s fun and because it might get you some branding to kind of show off like I could do a podcast on fishing. That may not bring me the lawyers, but it might bring me, you know, you know, might be kind of a fun thing to do on the side. I’m not going to rely on it.
Seth Price [08:49]
Right? But I think, Okay, so let’s there’s a business philosophy, which is, people do what they like to do. It’s true for our employees. It’s true for everybody. And so if you like it, you can see it. You enjoy this conversation, right? You’re like, Hey, make sure it’s a conversation in the pregame. You know, of course, that’s how I roll. But if you don’t like this, if you’re an introvert, it’s not going to last. You know, my law partner, he was like, he started podcast. He did three of them, and they never did it again. For white collar would have been great. He could have had white collar referral sources on for years. So, you know, when we do SEO, we have writing, if you like to write, your content will do well, Buddy, why? Dan Schwartz is a play is a an employment defense lawyer out of Connecticut, has a kinetic employment lawyer blog, a brilliant blog. It combines sports, pop culture, family and some employment law, and he’s made a whole career on but if you don’t like writing here, right, one page is never you have a one page blog and nothing else on it. So I think figuring out not just what will work, but what you enjoy in the intersection of those two. So for me, I started out, I love the digital I was described during the early.com things, early days of the internet. I loved finding people to link back to me, you know, looking at, you know, looking through the web and finding those opportunities to me. That was. Was fun, and so I did it, and I did more of it, but if you hated that and being told no and having the door hit you in the head a bunch of times, you’d never do it, and you wouldn’t build anything. So I think it’s, I think, to the point you sort of, if you had a fishing blog or fishing podcast, you do the best around the world, it’s likely not going to make you money. As a lawyer, might bring you joy. You might have a business selling fishing equipment, but you’re not going to drive it, so it’s figuring out what you love and combining that with what is possibly going to work as a likelihood of success.
Steve Fretzin [10:34]
Yeah, and you’ve got business development, you’ve got marketing and branding, and I like when people do all of it at the same time, but I think to a point you made earlier, you know, the B to B attorney at a big firm, you know, doing SEO or doing, you know, Google ads like, that’s not going to make sense. They’re dealings they’re dealing with general counsels and CEOs at major corporations or whatever. So how do you break down for a lawyer, if you were to coach a lawyer on figuring out what business development marketing they should be doing. Let’s say we’ll just come up with it. Say, like commercial real estate attorney.
Seth Price [11:07]
So the first question is, B to C versus B to B? It’s a very big threat, right? I mean, sounds obvious, but B to C means anybody could be your client within reason, and B to B, not so when B to C, mass market, TV, Internet, radio, you name it. When you’re doing B to B, it becomes, I think, in some ways, more challenging. So within the B to B world, are you do you have a finite number of people that can help, as I mentioned before, or is it pretty large? And the question is, how do you get in front of them? So that’s the next question. Are you regional? Are you national? Are you? You know, if you’re regional, there may be a finite number of potential business sources. And then, in one sense, it becomes easier. You know, you could send a you know, if you go with the Seth Godin permission marketing, send, you know, if it’s 100 people in town, 100 people getting a bottle of wine from you, somebody’s gonna pick up the phone and say hi. You know, you see the gifting programs. I’m looking at that on the marketing side as A, B to C, lawyer, some of the large marketing companies do gifting programs to get your attention. And it’s fascinating. You know, you send somebody enough gifts, they’re gonna take your call. And so, you know, are there things you can do? You know, are you doing podcasts, or doing speaking, all of those things, there’s no one magic thing, but that, I think that you need to recognize what is likely to bring success. And you know, you can try anything there. Look, I would argue that there’s a possibility that even with a YouTube channel, you could crack into areas that have B to B law, if getting that content out there, the question is, would having a message out there move the needle, or are these people that are never going to lift into outside elements, but need connectors to bring you to them? You need to figure out what is realistically going to work.
Steve Fretzin [12:56]
Yeah, so it’s really gaging it and understanding your audience. Is it local? Is it national? Is it B to B, B to C? And how do they either make a decision, or how do they get to the point where they’re going to talk with a lawyer? So again, is it through connectors? Like some people, they’re not even going to try to market to CEOs or GCS directly. They’re going to market to the connectors, because they’re never going to get a meeting with those people without the connectors.
Seth Price [13:21]
Right? I mean, or that’s, connectors are very, very powerful. You can go that way. You can try to go your own way. But no, there’s no, there’s no magic formula. It’s and part of it is, you try it for a bit, and if it works, great stuff that I remember. So on the B to B side, we have a white collar practice, which is as close to b to b is out there. We still do an internet like, it’s amazing. We still created multi, seven figures of income from digital marketing, even for the white collar world. But most of white collar cases are go between lawyers. One lawyer gets the CEO, somebody else gets the CFO, somebody else gets the CEOs, white etc. And one of the things that I recognized early on, we started trying to network up with the elder statesman’s in the industry. And one of the things we noticed, and there’s always an exception to the rule, was that that was very, very difficult, that those people had been in practice, and they had their own people that they had networked with, that they referred stuff out to, and that it wasn’t easy advice to take, but that the better return investment was to focus on the people that were your peers. Now, when we started 20 years ago, those people had a lot and didn’t have many cases to refer out. But over time, as you rose with those people, those people came to prominence. They had more cases. You had more cases, and that ecosystem worked really nicely. So some of it, I think, is figuring out what sandbox your message is resonating in and paying your dues. But I you know again, we’ll come back to the B C example. I am convinced that B to C lawyer who spends all their time at BNI is probably misplaced in that, yeah, you might get a case. Or two over the course of a year, but your time is not particularly well spent. Again, I’m always about going out. It’s not bad, but you would be infinitely better off figuring out how to find other sources of cases, rather than just hoping that networking your way in that would be positive roi, on time.
Steve Fretzin [15:26]
Yeah. Hey, pi attorneys, if you’re serious about scaling your firm, there’s one event you can’t afford to miss, Pim con, 2025 happening October 5 through the eighth at the Phoenician resort in Scottsdale, Arizona. Pimcon isn’t your average legal conference. It’s an experience. Learn how to take your firm from good to go with some of the biggest trailblazers in the PI space, including yours truly, as we share our elite marketing and brand building strategies. Tickets on sale [email protected] that’s p i m, c o n.org or just hit the link in the show notes. Your climb to the top starts at pimcon 2025 let’s go from good to go. Hey everybody, it’s Steve Fretzin in as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you, and let’s make this your breakout year. I mean, one of the first things I do with new lawyers that I work with obviously evaluate, you know, their strengths, their weaknesses, their gaps, all this stuff, but it’s really to identify the low hanging fruit and go after it and create a business plan around it and break it down into pieces. Do you have a feeling about when you do figure out, like, what direction you should go, whether it’s particular group that you’re joining being a speaker, going out and speaking that? How do you break that into manageable pieces? Because I I remember lawyers managing partners saying, like, what’s your advice to an associate? Well, get out there. So, like, we can talk big picture, like, get out there. It’s worthless, right? Or we can get into the weeds on, like, how you actually become a great speaker, or get an audience of a speaker, or get results with speaking as an example. Do you have a flavor for that?
Seth Price [17:20]
Look, I can. It’s tough in one sense, because I’m not you. I do it for myself. I may have a podcast on growth, and they can tell stories. You know, my story was I before I even had a digital agency. I love law, I love marketing, I love digital marketing. And so people would ask me to speak, and I liked it because I was frugal and it was free, or if you spoke and you got to be in the green room with the other speakers, which is very often some of the most interesting people there. I think the problem of you speaking to an associate and you’re young, nobody cares what you have to say. It’s tough. It’s which comes first. So the question is, how do you set yourself apart? And are you a decent speaker to begin with? Because if you’re not a great speaker, this is even actual subject, like how you deliver. That’s another interest you can get better at your Toastmasters and things like that. I would say, look right now, especially the B to B space, LinkedIn is an untapped area. I’ve been playing with it over the last few months. I’ve seen you out there. It’s, you know, people are on there, 99 to ones, you know, basically viewing or stalking and not producing content. And LinkedIn needs content, if you’re willing to put content out there, it resonates. You get a lot more interaction when you do stuff controversial, which, as an associate, you really can’t, because, you know, part of my whole business social media concept is do no harm. And when you go edgy, there can be harm. But to me, if you it’s consistency, you know, one of my, you know, I love the example out there of Jonathan Pollard, I’m sure, you know, from LinkedIn. He’s one of the sort of fourth forethought, you know, early evangelists of it. And he, he puts out really opinionated stuff that might not fly at big law, but he went from a guy in a B to B space, essentially. I mean, you know, doing, you know, he’s doing these non competes for executives. They’re very finite market. The idea is, if you create brand and personality within it, and this isn’t like brand like John Morgan Britain, but if you’re a B to B lawyer does antitrust, and you put out three pieces a week on antitrust, and people start seeing you, you know, aggregating information, all of a sudden you’re going to gain gravity to say, all of a sudden it’s over. You know, you’ll be a five year you know, overnight sensation. You know, it’s if you pay your dues and aggregate this stuff. Let’s take antitrust. Is one of my buddies, the struggling antitrust layer, 25 years in. You know, if you go out there and you are aggregating information, you have a podcast where you’re bringing in the top thought leaders. You know, part of the reason we became friends, you had a podcast and we talked, and it’s like, Oh, that’d be cool to be on. And that this is a destination. You have a book, you’ve done these different pieces, so over time. I mean, this is you’re the grad school example of what you want to be doing.
Steve Fretzin [19:59]
Yeah. Well, I appreciate. That I’m, I mean, into your point earlier, like, this doesn’t happen overnight. This is a 21 year adventure that I’ve been on and LinkedIn was, I was at the forefront of that, you know, 18 plus years ago, where I have a room of 100 people that were learning about it for the first time. And I thought it was the greatest sales tool that’s ever been invented. I used to tell people, I want you to take your cell phone. I want you to go to a toilet. I want you to throw it in the toilet and flush it down and go back to a corded phone where you’re stuck to your desk and you have a yellow pages. People even know what that is, because that’s how powerful LinkedIn is, as powerful as your phone, in many ways, it’s just a computer in your hand. But I think the problem with LinkedIn for lawyers is there’s two problems. Number one is their mindset is that it’s not beneath them, but it’s like, I don’t know where to start, or I don’t know how to get going on it. And by the way, why would I bother? It’s already so crowded, and I know I’ve got 100 ways of dispelling that or demystifying that, but what’s your take on that? Because it’s clearly for my take is like you’re either in the game or you’re not in the game.
Seth Price [21:02]
So I was day one of LinkedIn, or basically day two. I got the invitation from the guy got day one. The next day I got, okay, right? So, like, 20,000 or so, you know, people connected at least as friends on there. And what I would say is, it’s never too late, and that what we’re seeing. And I think Gary V and others are talking a lot about this in about this, the LinkedIn networks aren’t looking at your connections like people with more connections don’t. Right now we’re at a magical time where they’re looking for quality of content and putting that out there. And LinkedIn in particular is looking for quality so many bad AI sales pitches, etc, that if you’re putting thoughtful content, it will resonate, and again, it’s not going to resonate in one day. I think the first thing is, don’t overthink it. I have a friend in the B to B space years ago. Do I go on Facebook or on LinkedIn? And my answer is, both like it’s LinkedIn has its place and Facebook has its place. People do work with people that you’ll like and trust. I know people that you know you just like in the early days of email, you could email the CEO of Ford Motors and get through because nobody was emailing. Now, obviously that doesn’t work. You know, LinkedIn messages, we get way too much spam. I assume that anything with the word synergy is just spam or collaboration. It’s like it’s gonna it’s wasting my time. That said, if you get a Facebook Messenger, that’s pretty powerful stuff, and you can get to people that you wouldn’t get to ordinarily, people that are, you know, name brands in the legal and or marketing space, I can connect with through a Facebook message in a way that I couldn’t any other way. My emails would get screened out, and there’s no way I’d be able to get a hold of them. So I think it’s figuring out what works. And the idea look at Nike says it, just do it. It’s true, you know. Again, consistency, you know, it’s too crowded. Give it a shot. You know. Take, you know, play. It’s almost like you’re on The Tonight Show. Spin the wheel. Find me the most arcane area, the more arcane, the better. Of legal. If you start putting content on that, you may not get a ton of interaction, but the people that are interested are going to find it, and you’re going to be that guy, and all of a sudden, you know, now, when someone needs a podcast, it goes, there, it’s there’s a lot of power. And to me, if you’re so willing, I don’t want to share my personal stuff. Have a dumb account on Facebook. Facebook is for middle aged people, and you know, you could do a lot of damage and connect with a lot of people in ways that you couldn’t otherwise. Because, again, it’s about in the B to B space. It’s, it’s, who do you know? Like a trust, and it’s very hard to scale that. That’s why this podcast is great. We you and I are a prime example. We have got. We’ve spent more time on podcasts than we had outside of podcast or two for five minutes here or there, as you’re running from thing to thing. But really, our relationship is entirely podcast based.
Steve Fretzin [23:58]
Yeah, in the thing that people don’t understand is one of the challenges with LinkedIn and anytime you’re trying to put out content, is you have to sit and think about it and figure out, like, what you’re going to write, what you’re going to put on. And what we have figured out right is that when you have an article that you write, or you have a podcast that you put on, you videos that you do, whatever it is, the content that you then have the instant ability to post on social media, because you have the kind you’re building content, and you need a place to put it. You need a place to take that content and break it up. So like this podcast, and maybe people are getting sick of hearing me telling this, but like, I have that. We have the video, we have the audio, we we’re called the Blogcast, took the podcast, wrote a book, like, there’s all these ways of getting movement and adding value on social media, and I so that’s why I think creating content helps. If you’re not creating content, you’re just thinking out of your head every day, like, what am I going to do today? What am I going to do today? And you just blow it off, because there’s easier things to think about, like the work.
Seth Price [24:59]
Right. But I would say, as you’re saying, that I could see some of these naysayers shutting off everything you say is right, right? Let’s start with that. Yeah, yes, multi, but that’s not the point. The point is, if you create great content over time, if you’re in some B to B niche that nobody, you can’t do Google ads, you can’t SEO, you can’t do local search, but if you’re able to produce thoughtful content in that area, or better yet, you’re the aggregator that brings it together or shows people when their stuff because you’re finding it freaking Google Alert can get you again. Forget about the multi purposey, yes, you’re right, but like, I know that people who should be listening to. You are shutting off with that. What I’m saying is, own the content and be the be that person, and good things will happen. I think you mean be that lawyer, exactly.
Steve Fretzin [25:51]
Okay, all right, just checking can’t use that. That’s trademark. That is trademarked, absolutely. I got the t shirt and everything. Ultimately, though, if you’re not creating content that you can repurpose. Then, you know, I have articles and above the law and other places where I talk about, you know, create a poll a week, like, ask a question, get engagement. I did a poll. Listen, you’ll love this Seth, if you didn’t see it, but I did a poll about the solicitation that’s going on on LinkedIn, where you’re getting those messages, and what do people think about? I think I got 100 responses in about 12 hours. If I look at it now, it might be 200 responses. So 200 people have interacted and engaged with a poll. And I, by the way, I also want to know the answers, like, how do they feel about, do they feel the same that I do that I immediately disconnect from someone that’s selling me on LinkedIn. But ultimately, you know, doing a poll, creating a top 10 List of you figured out estate planning tips for people who hate estate planning. Whatever it might be, you’re just come up with something, and then you said the word consistent, and then make a consistent play every week or every day, whatever your jam is, to get it out there and play the game that’s being played.
Seth Price [27:00]
Absolutely so to me, it really is, you know, it’s being the center of that mini universe. There was a guy I wrote growing up when I was a baby lawyer. It was telecom bill. He was that guy. They’re trial lawyers. I know that go the trial lawyer meeting each week and or each month and give the update on the relevant case law. It puts them at the forefront. You know, they’re, they’re smart guys, but they’re just, they’re putting that extra effort in. If you create, if you’re the aggregator, if you’re the intersection where you’re bringing people timely information, it’s there, and then, God forbid, you actually find the people that could use that and that you push it out to them, then, I mean, that’s, you know, it’s not rocket science. And the smaller your universe, to me, the more comparable it is. In one sense, you know B to C is challenging, but to me, I love it. To me, the local search concept, where you could show that you’re the dominant player locally, is what I love, and would have used to move the needle. But when you have a finite group of people, you know, that’s where, you know, you can do some real damage, because it’s now you can give real time and attention to almost each one.
Steve Fretzin [28:08]
Yeah, really great stuff. I mean, we could probably talk for hours about this. I want to wrap up with your, what we call Seth’s big mistake. What’s a big mistake you made in your career, in your life that you break? You know, look at now and go, Yep, that was a big mistake. And here’s what I did about it.
Seth Price [28:23]
Well, look, I, my law partner and I, before we launched the law firm, did a bunch of real estate investing in, like, lower income neighborhoods, and didn’t love it. It was really different. It was very tough, and I didn’t love some of the decisions that to me, and that as the market crash, it became even less fun. So to me, eliminating something, even though long term could have been very lucrative for, you know, the focus you have so much time and attention and saying, You know what, rather than having to deal with disgruntled tenants and lead pain issues and this and that, being able to focus on building something you really cared about or passionate about that was a that was a big, big win.
Steve Fretzin [29:02]
Yeah, the power of saying no, or the power of removing something negative, or that takes your time. I don’t think lawyers, people in general, do enough of that that could be even like a bad relationship with a friend. Like, how do we just, like, exit from the negative and exit from things that don’t make us happy?
Seth Price [29:18]
Absolutely. Yeah. You know, it’s easier said than done, but when you do it, it’s really great.
Steve Fretzin [29:23]
Absolutely. Thank you, man. So let’s wrap up with our sponsors. Of course, law her podcast. Everybody check out my friend Sonia doing that. And of course, pimcon happening in September. No, it’s happening in October, in Scottsdale, first class experience there with Chris dryer. Seth, if people want to get in touch with you, they want to hear about Price Benowitz or blue shark digital. What are the best ways for them to reach you?
Seth Price [29:42]
Just connect on socials. LinkedIn.
Steve Fretzin [29:45]
Do you do social media and heard?
Seth Price [29:48]
I’m not. I’m not even that to me that I get it. You know, I get it. It’s just the easiest way. There’s always at the blue shark. But I, to me, it’s the conversation which you love so much. Much and continuing it and being part of it. Look forward to sharing that with your audience.
Steve Fretzin [30:04]
Yeah, well, we’ve got, you know, half a dozen amazing takeaways from our show today, and I’ve got my usual page of notes, of things that I’ll be, you know, creating video around and just taking all the bright and brilliant things that you’ve shared today and producing content. But you know, I just want to tell you how much I appreciate you coming on the show and what you’re doing for lawyers, how you’re helping improve their lives. And then I’d love to have you back soon. We just gotta we’ll keep in the loop, though. Look forward to it great to see you. Thank you, Matt and thank you everybody for hanging out with Seth and I today on the be that lawyer podcast. We are here to help you. Be that lawyer, confident, organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care, everybody. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.
Narrator [30:44]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.