In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Shireen Hilal discuss:
- Navigating modern law firm strategy in a rapidly evolving legal market
- Improving internal operations and team culture to boost law firm performance
- Enhancing client engagement and retention amid budget constraints
- Leveraging cross-selling and business development tactics within law firms
Key Takeaways:
- Law firms that prioritize understanding and responding to their clients’ future needs instead of mirroring competitors can unlock unique opportunities for differentiation and growth.
- Clear and value-based billing practices—paired with proactive scope, time, and budget alignment—are essential to reinforcing client trust and maintaining healthy payment cycles.
- Structured programs like internal expert briefings and strategic client lunches can make cross-selling more natural and effective by focusing on solving client problems rather than pitching services.
- Communicating pricing changes with context and care rather than through generic finance memos helps strengthen client relationships and reinforces long-term loyalty.
“The problem with obsessing about your competition instead of your clients is that, if you do, you are almost, by definition, falling in the middle. So the better way to get ahead, I think, is to be client-obsessed.” — Shireen Hilal
Unlock the secrets of the industry’s top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
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About Shireen Hilal: Shireen is the CEO of Maior, a boutique consultancy that helps law firms with their pain points and plateaus with strategic and operational support, ranging from go-to-market solutions and profitability programs to process improvement and enhancing employee engagement.
Before starting Maior, Shireen spent a decade practicing at AmLaw100 firms and then had the privilege of serving in several executive roles: COO of a national law firm (where she increased revenue by 20%, profits per partner by 30%, and achieved “best place to work” accolades), pivoting strategy and operations for enterprise firms (KPMG and BDO), and building out the growth division of a communications consulting firm.
Through Maior, she now helps growing firms skyrocket, early-stage firms maintain their “special sauce” as they scale, and mature firms with a fresh perspective.
Shireen also serves on the advisory board of a Top 100 accounting and advisory firm and writes a quarterly column for Law360 answering law firm leaders’ questions.
Connect with Shireen Hilal:
Website: https://www.maiorconsultants.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shireenhilal/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/maior-consultants/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey, everybody, before we get to the show, want to just share that the be that lawyer book continues to be a best seller and rocking and rolling. If you are a fan of this show and you want to get the book, grab it today. It is on Amazon. Stuart Eisler is a client of mine and a great guy. His five star review says Steve has changed the game when it comes to business development for attorneys, sales and pitches are not the way to go. Not only does Steve share a system and vast knowledge of legal client engagement, he has brought with him his teachings of 100 rainmakers. If you’re an attorney trying to figure out how to grow your practice with clients, you want to work with this well organized and highly readable book all but guarantees to teach you a thing or two. Thanks. Stuart, All right, everybody, you got the 411, on this. Grab a book today and be that lawyer.
Narrator [00:54]
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [01:16]
Hey everybody, it is Steve Fretzin, and I am so happy that you’re with us. This show is just cranking out the hits between the podcast and the new book. Be that lawyer, 101 top Rainmaker secrets to growing a successful law practice. We are helping lawyers all over the world too. Yes, you guessed it. Be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. And today is no different. I’ve got Shireen waiting in the wings. How are you?
Shireen Hilal [01:41]
I’m great. Thanks for having me.
Steve Fretzin [01:45]
Yeah, I’m so happy that you’re here. And we were introduced by Ariana Taddler, so we’ll shout out to Ariana.
Shireen Hilal [01:50]
Yes, thank you. Ariana always has a great intro.
Steve Fretzin [01:54]
Oh my god, she’s this the best. She’s my favorite person. She’s competing in the top favorite persons, people of Steve Fretzin’s life, I guess, but she’s just fantastic, and I have to travel to New York to visit her at some point soon, not committing to that on the spot, but I’m saying that would be a good move for me.
Shireen Hilal [02:10]
When you do, please call me, because I’m here too so.
Steve Fretzin [02:14]
All right, well, listen, I’m going to have to make a whole run of it. Is what I think is going to happen. Have to do a full road show. Yeah, don’t have a choice. All right. Everybody you know how this game is played. We are going to start with our wonderful quote of the show. And Shireen, I love the one that you sent me. I want to ask you about it in a second, and it is, if you want an unfair advantage, you’ll have to do something different than everyone else. Do you know who said that? Or is that yours?
Shireen Hilal [02:40]
I won’t claim credit, but I do not have anyone to attribute it to. So if probably something I picked up over time or through somebody and it just happened to stick with me.
Steve Fretzin [02:51]
Yeah, so tell us about it. Why is that? Why do you love I have got a feeling about it, but I’d love to hear your take.
Shireen Hilal [02:57]
Yeah, I am. I have found and look, I advise law firms the way you do different than you do, but we’re both looking at the same folks in terms of how to help them. And one thing that I think everyone is always thinking about, and I don’t blame them, we all wonder, What’s everyone else doing? And the problem with obsessing about your competition instead of your clients is, if you do, you are almost, by definition, falling in the middle. So the better way to get ahead, I think, is to be client obsessed. And so ask yourself, let’s say you’re thinking of opening up a new practice area and you’re the managing partner or investing in a particular new type of service, offering or delivery method, ask the clients. First, do you need it? Is this one, where’s your business going in the next 24 to 36 months? And then back into that, how does our firm grow to meet the demand that’s in the market? As opposed to what a lot of firms do, which is, oh, well, if they’re opening up a Houston office, do I need to open up a Houston office if they have this practice area? Do I need to have that practice area?
Steve Fretzin [04:09]
Yeah, it’s not about being the same, right? It’s about being different and not you know, whether it’s the difference in how you’re providing the service, it’s different in how you’re putting out your true, authentic self. You know, something that’s going to stand out from the crowd. I think that’s sort of the name of the game today, because it’s we’re all getting lost in this social media, you know, melee of content, it’s hard to sort of stand out.
Shireen Hilal [04:31]
It sure is. It’s a crowded market, and saying the same things as everyone else and having the exact same services is just like I said, a race to mediocrity I think.
Steve Fretzin [04:44]
Yeah, really great. Well, I appreciate you sharing that and do us a favor. I’m going to ask you so. Shireen Hillel, everybody is the CEO of my or strategic consulting LLC. Please give us your background and tell us how you came to be.
Shireen Hilal [04:58]
Yeah, sure. So my. Firm my or is a consultancy that’s built for law firms that refuse to settle for good enough. And so we help firms move past their pain points and plateaus by increasing revenue and profitability, sharpening operations and building smarter growth strategies. And what sets us apart is execution. Most consultancies will deliver their strategy and walk away, and instead, we build practical, tailored solutions and embed with the teams make them real. And so every engagement is grounded in how each firm actually functions, and we stay involved in refine and iterate for continued and compounding results. And the way I got here, I founded my or after a decade as an M law 50 litigator, and then that was followed by executive leadership roles across law, consulting and communications. So I was the COO of a national law firm where I am proud to say we increase revenue by over 20% and partner partner profit by over 30% and we also got in the best places to work list in our key market. And also had the opportunity to lead operations and strategy for a billion dollar division of KPMG, drove change management for BDO and launched the first structured Go to Market program at a mature communications firm. So I kind of glommed all of that together to now service the boutique and mid size law firm market.
Steve Fretzin [06:31]
Yeah. Well, I’m going to ask you a question, and the problem with the question and the problem with your answer is the world is changing so fast. So let’s say that we taped this at one point, then a month later, this comes out, and the whole world could be different. But right now, we’re sitting at the beginning of May, the world is changing every single day. What are you are there some thoughts about what you’re seeing in legal? I mean, obviously there’s pressure on the big law. I saw something about they’re demanding the top 10 that everybody come back to work full time four days a week in office. Like there’s all these changes happening. How are you kind of seeing this all play out? Like, what’s your take? Your take?
Shireen Hilal [07:03]
It’s a good question. There’s a lot of competing pressures. So you just listed one that I think is an important one, which is workforce engagement, right? And in professional services, in general law or otherwise, an engaged workforce isn’t really optional. I mean, your people are the product. And so thinking about how you build culture, and thinking through doing it in a way that isn’t just reliant on physical presence, but having real structures and systems that support your people. And also thinking about, you know, culture has cult in it, so what are you doing to create real buy in and believers. I think that’s an issue, and part of it might be solved by getting people back in the office. I would say, I think that that’s a band aid solution, and as my answer, sort of already probably presupposed. I think there’s real structure that needs to come in if you want lasting results. There. The other thing that I think everyone’s seeing is budgets have gotten tighter, and there’s been a lot of talk for decades about, you know, the death of the billable hour, or, you know, firms have to show their value. But I only think in the last few years was the corporate market actually in a position to push back the way that they have and so we’re actually starting to see that get put in motion. And so first of all, there has never been a better time to be a mid sized law firm. I think you’re seeing a lot of the corporate market in particular realizing that you can get the same talent at a better valued price and with better personalized service, and you aren’t really moving down market, because a lot of those folks came from amla 50 or am long 200 so that’s another piece of it, the same time where you’re Seeing the squeeze. You know, revenues are flatter, but the labor cost has not gone down, and, in fact, it’s going up. And so that’s a margin squeeze. So things that I’m hearing the most from firms that I’m advising, how do we stand out in a crowded market and increase our footprint, especially given tighter budgets? How do we get bigger share of that wallet? What can we do to push more to the bottom line and ensure profits for partner are robust and continue to grow without doing things that are short term and sort of cannibalizing our long term future? And of course, how do we engage our workforce and at the same time, what can we do to better engage our clients? Because I think the other thing they’re realizing is clients are also feeling remote now.
Steve Fretzin [09:48]
Yeah, I was funny. So I was talking to one of my clients, Jeff, if you’re listening, this is you. And ultimately, I was like, you know, now is the time to go after the company. Companies that have been paying exorbitant fees to the big firms because, you know, they’re tightening up their budgets. And this is but he’s like, Well, we’ve always done that. I’m like, you’ve always done it, but it’s the timing of it. The timing is now. The timing wasn’t a year ago. So I think, I don’t know if that clicked with him or not. He kind of pushed back, but that’s, that’s part of, you know, any lawyer’s job, right, is to push back on everything, but ultimately, I get what you’re saying, and I think the one, the other one that I would add to your list is, look, if clients are, you know, holding on to their money, and they’re not going to do the same amount of matters and deals and pay the same fees they’ve always been paying, because things are tight, you know, we’ve got to adjust to that, and so the pie isn’t getting a little smaller, and you have to step up the marketing, the business development. So when your clients ask you about, how do we get a bigger footprint, or how do we get more basically, like piece of the pie, I think that’s where leaning into business development, marketing, Client Development, or even just client engagement and loyalty all plays a fact.
Shireen Hilal [10:59]
I think that’s right. And the other piece that, to me, is interesting, and you deal with this a lot, part of it’s in the pitch, right? And so how are you making this a layup for in house counsel to take this to the rest of the C suite and not be seen as a cost center? And so I have told my clients, think about how you walk into that pitch with one slide that has bullets that if they were to walk into their C suite, the GC, or head of lit, or whoever you’re dealing with, it is actually tied to their business outcomes and needs. And so that may be look we’re looking to hopefully have a sale in five years. This is going to increase the value of the company because of a, b and c. This is going to mitigate the risk and take and take that off of our books and increase our acquisition price. And here’s how and why. Or, you know, think about what you’re doing that brings real company and shareholder value, because ultimately, helping your client to sell it internally is sort of part of, I think, the pitch.
Steve Fretzin [12:12]
Well, it sounds like too for lawyers who have existing clientele that may be hit up by other lawyers, or maybe, you know, targeted now because of the current economy that you’ve got to as a lawyer, do more than maybe ever before for your clients, and how you’re protecting the relationship, protecting their business, and making sure that they stay with you and loyal to you for the long haul through a difficult time. And what are some things that you’re suggesting to your clients to accomplish that.
Shireen Hilal [12:46]
Yeah, to sort of keep that trust and stay close and tight with your clients, I would there’s a few programs I’ve put in place at firms. And for one, for example, is, you know, if you have go practice by practice and think through. I’ll give you an example. Let’s say I have a real estate practice at my firm, and we do closings all the time. This is a very simple example, right? I should know, if I’ve done 500 closings in the last I don’t know, six months or a year, what are the five to seven questions that I know every client, or 80% of my clients end up asking, you know, what package that into a bit of an FAQ and have that be part of the intake call or your kickoff call, or what are the three times that, you know, the clients are getting a little itchy and they’re going to want an update, get ahead of it and give that so part of it is stay ahead on communication and anticipate their needs. The next one, I think that’s a big one is, and I see this a lot bad billing hygiene. And so if your time entry does not reinforce the value of your work, of course they’re not going to want to pay. And so, like easy example, if I write review documents, I mean, who cares, but if I write I reviewed the third party agreement to identify the risk tied to x issue. Now I’m showing judgment and I’m making an impact, right? And so ask yourself, when you send out the bill, does this tell a story of value and progress, I would say the other one. And now kind of step back in time before the bills go out, are you even aligned on scope and budget? A lot of firms assume that everything is clear, and it’s not. You have to talk about budget and scope. And if you’re billing hourly, you have to talk about timekeeping too. What are you billing for? What do you not bill for? Whose names are they going to see on the bill? And this is also where you need to do a gut check. Are the fees that we’re going to charge proportionate to the value that the client is getting? I think there’s a lot of firms that assume, well, they know our hourly rate, and they know we’re expensive. So now why are. They complaining when they get the bill, because this is a tiny litigation matter, and the juice just doesn’t work, the squeeze anymore. And so when you’re the expert, it’s sort of on you to make sure you’re unpacking that. And then I would say too, you know, one of the most passive aggressive things I’ve seen, and we’ve talked about this as friends, mishandling fee increases, and so you know, most firms treat year end pricing changes like a compliance task. It’s a generic letter sent from finance where you hope the client doesn’t reply that just feels awfully sneaky. And the way to grow a relationship say, clearly, here’s what you’re paying now and here’s how it compares. Here’s the value you’re going to receive, and here’s my vision for the relationship. You know, good messaging reflects context, value and care. A bad one is robotic, vague and oblivious to the fact that there’s a human being on the other side. So those are some of the things that you can think of in terms of just cleaning up from all the way from intake to sending out the bill, how am I treating my client? And am I sure I’m delivering and they’re seeing the value?
Steve Fretzin [16:12]
Yeah, I love all of that. And it’s just little things that add up to, you know, problems. And again, you know, the statistic, I don’t know if it’s changed, but, you know, six times more time, money, energy to get a new client than to keep an existing one. And what are you doing to, you know, to sort of put a little insurance down on that relationship. I would add to what you said that, and this is more kind of in more in my lane, what questions are you asking your clients that demonstrates care and understanding, empathy and an interest in their well being. What else can I do for you to help you during these tough times? What other resources do you need? Oh, well, my VP of sales just quit, and we’re dying right now because we don’t have someone let me you have a resume or, I mean, you have, like, a job description. Let me you know you’re not committing or promising to fill that spot, but you can leverage your network to make an effort to demonstrate to them that you care and that you’re making an effort. You know, I would also ask questions about what other challenges they’re having that so I’m an IP and I’m asking about challenges they’re having, and they talk about employment and litigation, and their firm sucks, and whatever. Well, my firm does all that, but I never asked those questions. Give me a break. I mean, this could be a possible Win. Win, win all around you. Win origination, the client wins a better level of service for employment, and you’re bringing in the work for one of your partners who’s going to enjoy working with this great client.
Shireen Hilal [17:42]
You great client? Yeah, I think what’s interesting about that is you’re talking about cross selling, and I think all firms sort of get wound up around, how do we do it better? But the truth comes down to empathy, right? It’s just, do I care and understand this client? One trick I’ve put in place at a couple firms to sort of really dig deeper into both empathy and hopefully the result right cross selling is, if this is helpful to any of your listeners, you know, I’ll have the partners go to their long standing clients and say, Listen, you’re a great client. And my managing partner has asked that each of us partners go to our favorite client and give a complimentary strategy session. I want to invite you to the firm. We’re going to have a nice lunch. I’m going to bring so and so from tax, so and so from labor and employee. I mean, whoever the right, depending on what this person’s business and what they may actually be facing would be, and it is truly a complimentary we’re just here to listen and ideate and solution with you. But what you’re actually getting out of this is you’re kind of getting to soft pitch your client on here’s the other ways you can use us.
Steve Fretzin [19:01]
Yeah, it’s a little bit of an evil genius play you just made there, by the way, just putting that out there. Um, nice stuff. I see with your cauldron, and you’re stirring the pot a little, oh, asking, but asking questions that go outside of your area. That’s one element, and getting them into your firm for lunch and to meet your partners. I mean, come on, that’s next level stuff. How many lawyers out of 100 are actually doing anything like that? It might be one or two.
Shireen Hilal [19:30]
I think what makes it hard is they feel like they’re selling so they don’t want to do it. So if instead, you flip it to, how do I give you something for free, which, by the way, they really should receive some value out of that. Otherwise, you’re not running that strategy session. Well, why should you feel bad about that?
Steve Fretzin [19:49]
Yeah, it shouldn’t be a pitch, right? I mean, it should be right. It should be 90% you know, them talking and you asking questions and empathy. Demonstrating that you care. And then, is it possible that things are going to come out of that meeting that lead to additional matters and additional opportunities? I think so. There’s always stuff hidden under the table.
Shireen Hilal [20:10]
Yeah, and at the least, what if your client just feels like you’re a great partner to them?
Steve Fretzin [20:16]
Yeah, yeah, that worst case scenario, right? Yeah.
Shireen Hilal [20:17]
Isn’t that a great bad result?
Steve Fretzin [20:19]
It’s a terrible result that I love, yes, great stuff with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings.io. Prides itself on proof, not promises. Mentality. The best firms hire rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases, other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver. Get More rankings, get cases and schedule a free [email protected] today. Hey everybody. It’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you. And let’s make this your breakout year. So let’s continue on this path, though, because I think if we look at all of the different areas of business development where lawyers stink, cross marketing is definitely at the top. So I think we’re already getting into some good ground here. But I talk about two kinds of cross marketing. The one you’re talking about is, I have the client, I’m going to bring that client into the firm, or I’m going to try to, you know, cross sell. This. The one that’s done less than that, right, is the other side, where I’m going to as a lawyer, looking to get more business, looking to develop more business, to lean into my partners, who have the clients they’ve never talked about I’m a tax guy. They’ve never talked about tax with any of their clients. You know, we’ve got this incredible tax department and lawyer in me, in this made up scenario that has not been brought to light. So can you talk about that as another side of it?
Shireen Hilal [22:05]
Yeah. So I’ve done a lot of cross sell programs and upsell programs at firms, and you always have to do it. I mean, here’s my caveat, right? That it depends lawyer, caveat that, and it does right? It depends on your firm’s culture and how these practices mesh together, and whether there’s Industry Focus and things like that. But I do think building things like an actual industry group where you have partners who meet together and senior associates, etc, and actually talk about what’s happening in the industry and what they’re seeing and how they’re changing things for their clients for the better, that naturally leads itself better to those conversations, but some of it, too, you can be more programmatic. And so something I put in at one firm was like internal expert briefings. And so the way this went was, every quarter, each practice group had a partner present what’s changing in their world in a day, in five minutes, right? This is your five minute presentation during our all partner call, and it was, here’s the highlight of what’s going on this quarter and the exciting things and the nuance in our practice area. So then at the end of the call, what we asked is for all partners to think through. Now you just heard these great updates. What clients do you have that could benefit from a quick 30 minute VIP session? So again, let’s be a little sneaky. Let offer my partners in tax, use your example, have seen a lot of developments in your industry. I would love to get you on for a 15 minute update from them, one on one, where you can ask them a couple of questions too. Yeah. Clients love that now, giving them a VIP mini briefing just for them, where they don’t have to sort of air the dirty laundry in front of anybody else on a WebEx, right? And this is how you get small connections made, and you build trust across the firm. And every partner kind of has thought through, oh, I now see the aha moment. Yes, my client needs that. Yes, my client would benefit from 15 minutes here or there. The other thing you can do, and this is a little bit, I don’t know, maybe, depends on again, the culture of your firm, but make a Services Playbook so every practice gets one page only, where you make it super easy for everyone to understand what you do, plain language. What problem do we solve? Who is it for? What are the signs clients might need us? Or maybe it’s even two to three minute videos showing that service in action, like be clear, not clever, right? But just do things that educate others, because everyone’s so busy. Like it’s, I don’t think, for a lack of caring, it’s just you’re trying to get done what’s in front of you.
Steve Fretzin [25:04]
Yeah, and by the way, just as an aside, if you’re a solo or you’re in a boutique firm that does one thing, you should be replacing the law firm culture and the different practice areas with your strategic partners, with the other lawyers that you align with. How can you get them into your clients. How can they get you into their clients like it’s not ultimately that different. The thing I wanted to share, just add on to what you said is the culture has to be there, yes. And I think the other thing is you need to develop the relationships in your internally at your firm, where you like the person a great deal and know that they are a great lawyer and are responsive. Because I can’t tell you how many people get turned off by cross marketing because they’ve, oh, I referred a partner and he screwed up the whole thing, or he blew the client, or, like, you know, some way that, you know, just like, destroy the relationship, or didn’t do the work, or didn’t call, like, you got to make sure that you step up and really qualify the partners at your firm, they’re not all created equal, correct?
Shireen Hilal [26:03]
I think that’s right. And that kind of you reminded me of another little tip. So you know, most firms leave, frankly, and you know this as well as I do most of their entire revenue cycle to chance, right? They assume that everyone’s going to figure it out, whether from business development to staffing, the matter, to collections, and you just hope that your team is going to get it right by winging it. But everybody is busy and weary, and structure helps. And so one example of structure, in addition to things like we got to talk about scope and budget, is define what a client relationship partner means at your firm. Most firms don’t. And so get together your best rainmakers in one room and ask, what do you actually do to keep your clients close? Document it, operationalize it. Because if you want others to manage relationships well and partners to have trust that to your point, if I introduce my client to Steve, Steve is going to treat and with the same respect and depth that I would. There has to be some standard out there for this is what it actually means when you originate a matter. Here’s what we check out of you as a firm.
Steve Fretzin [27:19]
Yeah, and since you teed it up so well, I’d be remiss not to mention be that lawyer 100 at one top Rainmaker, secrets to growing a successful law practice. So, Leadership, Culture, business, development, marketing, you know, it’s all in here. You know, peace of mind. How do you keep a good mindset? So what can you learn from the rainmakers? Thank you for for teeing that up for me. Let’s take a moment to Let’s wrap it up with a new segment. This is, I think you’re our third victim. I mean, person that we’re asking this question to, what’s Shireen’s big mistake?
Shireen Hilal [27:54]
The good one. I mean, I have so many.
Steve Fretzin [27:57]
Don’t we all? That’s a sad thing. One can I only.
Shireen Hilal [28:01]
Can I talk about the only good thing I’ve done? If anything? No, you’re you’re right. It’s a good thing to talk about. I would say, for me, I spent a lot of my career trying to figure out how to continue Navigating on the path that was built for me. And so whether that’s, you know, I spent my first 10 years in amla, 50 firms, and it’s very lockstep and rigid. And you make exactly this salary, and you hit your billables and you get the bonus, or you don’t, and you only move up one class year a year. And it’s very regimented all the way through to going into the corporate world, or more enterprise firms, like a KPMG, where I ran a 5000 person division or or even other enterprise firms. I always you know when, when someone else has built the path, it’s you’ve got to figure out how you stay on it to continue progressing. And so for me, I think it was finally figuring out I had to build my own firm if I really wanted to do it my own way, and that means you gotta machete your way through the jungle and build your own path.
Steve Fretzin [29:06]
Yeah? Well, I just like to hear not people struggle for the purpose of me hearing people struggle, but it’s like, what can you know, we have to struggle. We have to have obstacles. There’s no purpose to life if there aren’t obstacles, if there isn’t hardship, like, how do we get anywhere in this world without having to accomplish things that’s like, you know, that’s like life one on one. So I appreciate you being open to sharing. Let’s wrap up and thank our sponsors. Of course, the law her podcast with Sonia Palmer, crushing it for women might be a good intro for you. By the Do you know Sonia Palmer, I don’t I would love this, bro, yeah, yeah, I’m gonna, I’ll talk to her about you. Of course, we got PIM con coming up. If you’re a personal injury attorney and you want to go to the most elegant, wonderful, positive conference of the year, that’s the one to go to in October. And of course, I plug my book be that lawyer. 101 top Rainmaker secrets. Grab a copy on Amazon. We’re a best seller, and it’s helping lawyers all over the world to be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. Shireen, if people want to reach out to you, I mean, by the way, just as an aside before we wrap up, amazing job, like so many well thought out and helpful tips. It wasn’t just the 20,000 foot view. You really got into the weeds and knocked out four or five, six, really important topics. Maybe more than that, I’ll have to go back and do do some math. But really, really great. So how do people get in touch with you? They want to bring you into their firm, or they just want to learn more about you?
Shireen Hilal [30:37]
Sure. Well, I do. Thank you. First, I try to stay very tactical and practical, because otherwise you know what’s what’s the point really? Yeah, you can find me on my website. It’s my your consultant with an s.com mayor is m, a, i, o, R. You can also find me on LinkedIn, Shireen, halal. And I also write a quarterly column for law 360 it’s like a Dear Abby for law firm leaders. And so I will say, If anyone ever has a topic that they want me to address, I deal with a new burning question each quarter. The next one I’m going to do is on, how do you price better? Because I hear that question a lot, but I’ve tackled everything from remote work and culture to profitability and everything else. So it may be of interest.
Steve Fretzin [31:25]
Yeah, it certainly should be. And appreciate you coming on the show sharing your wisdom. Shout out again to Arianna tadler for the great introduction. And just thank you so much. This is you know, I knew when we met initially, this was going to be a great collaboration, and you did not disappoint.
Shireen Hilal [31:41]
Me too. And thank you so much for hosting me.
Steve Fretzin [31:45]
Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you everybody for hanging out with Shireen and I for the last 30 plus minutes. We are here for your listening and viewing pleasure. Of course, you can check us out on Amazon. You for the new book. You can check us out on YouTube. Don’t be afraid to tell your friends about be that lawyer and give us a nice review on your phone when you get done with this episode, all great stuff to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. Take care. Everybody. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.
Narrator [32:15]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.