In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Stacey Brown Randall discuss:
- The realities and misconceptions of referral marketing for professionals
- Building genuine, relationship-driven client experiences that foster loyalty
- Balancing efficiency, personalization, and automation in client communication
- Mindset management and learning from business failures in professional growth
Key Takeaways:
- Doing great work alone doesn’t automatically generate referrals—intentional relationship-building and structured referral strategies are essential.
- A strong client experience combines excellent work output with emotional connection and proactive relationship touchpoints across the “new,” “active,” and “alumni” stages.
- Only about 20–30% of clients are typically referred; managing expectations and distinguishing between repeat and referred clients prevents misleading assumptions about referral rates.
- Protecting one’s mindset and resisting external pressure or comparison—especially regarding success metrics—is crucial to maintaining authenticity and preventing burnout.
“Doing great work does not equal referrals.” — Stacey Brown Randall
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About Stacey Brown Randall: Stacey Brown Randall is the author of the new book, The Referable Client Experience, the award-winning book, Generating Business Referrals Without Asking, and the host of the Roadmap to Referrals podcast. Stacey teaches business owners how to generate referrals naturally…without manipulating, incentivizing, or even asking. She has been featured in national publications like Entrepreneur magazine, Investor’s Business Daily, Forbes, and more. She received her Master’s in Organizational Communication and is married with three kids.
Connect with Stacey Brown Randall:
Website: https://staceybrownrandall.com/
Book: The Referable Client Experience: https://referableclientexperience.com/
Show: Roadmap to Referrals: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/roadmap-to-referrals/id1405302350
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/staceybrandall/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey everybody. Steve Fretzin here, and if you’re ready to grow your practice, you’re going to want to attend on October 30, or be that lawyer live. We’ve done a bunch of these, and this one’s going to be an absolute game changer for you. Seats are limited. You’re going to want to sign up at fretzen.com/events you could find it on Eventbrite. Be that lawyer and enjoy the show.
Narrator [00:22]
You’re listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:42]
Hey everybody, welcome back. It’s Steve Fretzin, and you are with the be that lawyer podcast. You guys know that we have another podcast called be that lawyer Coach’s Corner. You’re going to want to check that out. I recently had Mandy McCormack on there. She’s a client of mine, amazing estate planner. Talks a little bit about what my programs like and why lawyers should check it out. You also know about the book, be that lawyer Hunter, one top Rainmaker secrets, growing a successful law practice. And la, la, la, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. We’re here to help you. Be that lawyer confident, organized in a skilled Rainmaker. And one thing I do very, very well, and there’s a few things, although my teenager would say the opposite, that I don’t do anything well, but I did get him to go to the clinic because he has a cough that does not sound like a good cough. And I got him, I convinced him that dad knows something he should go to the clinic. And he did. Then he blew out on a scooter. So anyway, this kid can’t find any luck. But um, is I’m really good at bringing on the most amazing guests. I don’t know if you guys realize that I do that, and hopefully that’s one of the reasons you’re listening to the show every single time we have one, but Stacey’s a two timer. She’s with me again, one of the top players in legal, one of the top players in referral marketing and networking. And I’m just so thrilled that you’re here, Stacey. Welcome to the show.
Stacey Brown Randall [01:52]
Thank you, Steve, for having me back. I appreciate being able to come back and hang with you.
Steve Fretzin [01:56]
Yeah, yeah. We’re gonna have some fun. And then every time we get together, it’s just a tit for tat. Go at it. You know, how are we going to help lawyers be their best selves? You gave me a great quote of the show, and I wanted to just share it with everybody. You deserve referrals, but you aren’t owed them. There we go. You aren’t owed them. So I’m so happy you’re here, and please tell us why that is the quote of the show for you.
Stacey Brown Randall [02:19]
Yeah, you know, I think there is this common misconception that if you do amazing work and your clients love you, that it’s going to equal referrals, right? That it’s going to be, this is going to be how it works, in terms of what it looks like if I just got to do great work, I’ve just got to maintain relationships, and then I’m going to just get referrals, because my clients are going to love me, and that doesn’t mean you don’t deserve them, but that’s not how referrals work, and you aren’t owed them, is what I like to say meaning. And what I really mean by that is that you just gotta be willing to put in some work and develop relationships and learn the right strategies they can complement everything else you’re doing from a business development perspective. But when you’re thinking about referrals, and you’re carving out time and space to cultivate referrals, you’ve really got to pay attention to doing great work. Being an amazing journey is not necessarily going to equal getting a whole bunch of referrals. It doesn’t mean you’re doing anything wrong. It means you don’t know how to bridge the gap to referrals. So you may deserve them, but you aren’t owed them.
Steve Fretzin [03:15]
I think a little bit of it is that what I call the client loyalty myth, that if you provide great service and at a fair price that your clients will stay loyal to you, and referrals might be a part of that. But even just lawyers not recognizing how important it is to keep clients and that the cost time, energy, money to get a new client compared to keeping one happy that you have, mean it’s a tremendous amount of extra time and energy to do it. So I think that’s a really great, a great quote of the show. So listen, you’ve been prolific in the space. You’re a multiple time author. Give everybody a little background on how you came to be.
Stacey Brown Randall [03:50]
Yeah, I had to overcome a business failure, and I had to figure out how to grow a successful coaching practice where I did not have a budget, so there wasn’t going to be a lot of online marketing strategies that were happening at the time when I started my second business after my first business failed, I was also at that point, even with my first business, I was a mom that had a business, and so networking every night of the week was not on the table for me. I had other priorities. And so when I started my second business, trying not to land as a two time member in the business failure club. I was like, Okay, I’ve got to figure out this business development thing. I got to do it in a way that works for me. I’m a big believer in a multi pronged approach. I don’t think there is one way and only one way you would have your prospects, your leads, come into your firm or into your business. I think that you need a couple and I wanted to find the ways that works best for me. Referrals was one of them. I just hated all the advice that was out there about referrals. You got to ask, you got to compensate, you got to be gimmicky and promotional. Put like, put in your email signature the greatest compliment you can give us as a referral. Or you got to network all the time so that you’re always seen and never forgotten. And I never thought those were like, what people could do in reality or may or. For me was comfortable doing, so I kind of just set out to, like, figure it out differently. I didn’t plan to have a business where referrals was my area of expertise. I didn’t plan to go an inch wide, but a few 100,000 miles deep on one singular topic, it being referrals. But that’s where I am 12 years later. Second business.
Steve Fretzin [05:19]
Listen, you’ve got two options in building business. One is to it’s like apple picking. You’ve got a 16 foot ladder, and you’re going to climb up to the top of every tree and try to pick an apple. You’re just going to walk by and pluck the ones that are right in front of your face. And I think you decided that that’s maybe a more efficient way to go, right?
Stacey Brown Randall [05:38]
Yes. I mean, I just think that it’s got to work, of course, but it’s also okay that it works and it works for you, and I think that’s the important thing for business owners to recognize, or for attorneys specifically to recognize, is that it’s okay to do it your way. You just got to be open to figuring out what that is and then learning what you probably don’t know, so that you can make that way work.
Steve Fretzin [05:59]
Yeah, well, and if your way isn’t working and you just keep doing it over and over again, expecting it to and then we know where that goes. So I mean, what do you want from owners then, and just lawyers in general, get wrong about referrals and their client experience.
Stacey Brown Randall [06:13]
Yeah, I think the first thing that they get wrong is that they believe that their client experience is the totality of the work that they do. They believe that as long as I do great work, then I am delivering a great client experience. And don’t get me wrong, the work that you deliver is very, very important, but it is only one half of the equation. The other half of the equation is the relationship that you build with your clients. And so that’s the first thing I see attorneys getting wrong, is like they look at it like I do great work, so I must have a great client that great client experience. And I’m like, No, you have a client experience, whether you’re intentional or unintentional about it, but it being referable, it being great. And also then being referable means that it’s more than just the work you do, that it’s also the relationship you build. And the other thing that I see is that there’s not a real focus on just because you do great work, you think most people think that will then unleash a river of referrals into their company, into their firm. And actually doing great work does not equal referrals. So it’s not only having that referable client experience what makes you referable, the work that you do and the relationship you build, but also knowing how to bridge that to referrals.
Steve Fretzin [07:25]
Yeah, and I’ve been a big proponent, I you know, so I’m trying to emulate what I do for my clients, so that they don’t think I’m a hypocrite. So I’m continually trying to figure out, like, Okay, I’m helping you with your law practice. Great. What else can I do for you? Do you need strategic partner introductions? Do you need to, you know, come to an event I’m running? Do you need, you know, additional, you know, resources and things like, what can I do so that it isn’t just you getting coaching and training for me, but you’re having an experience of a friendship, an experience of something that’s going far beyond just, you showing up for my class and doing the work and putting the numbers in?
Stacey Brown Randall [08:04]
Yeah. So how I have folks think about it is, if you were to, like, bullet point out everything you do as you would typically define your client experience, and I really mean the things that happen repeatedly like they’re happening for every client. When every client says yes to working with you, they fill out this contract, or they fill out this form, or they sign up for this right? And then every client that’s working with you gets these calendar invites for their appointments or whatever it is, right? They get added to this group. So then they’re showing up. If you were to just map out every touch point that you do, from start to finish with a client, and just look at that. The number one question I would have you ask yourself is, is, when you look at that, is there anything that’s missing in terms of gaps of expectation, setting and communication, and then let’s look to see if there’s any gaps missing where you have opportunities to really pay attention to building and strengthening and deepening the relationship we’re really good at. Like, oh yeah, here’s all my work, touch points. I do this, this, this, this is like a checklist, right? We run through every time we bring out a new client. New Client, and maybe the checklist changes slightly depending on what the client has hired us for, but it’s like the checklist that we run through. And they’re usually work, but they’re missing those opportunities to really build a relationship. So that’s one of those things I tell folks that, yes, I want you exactly what you said, if you can come up with ways to help your clients and do other things for your clients. I still want that to be part of your repeatable process, so that when you’re busy, you don’t forget to say it to two or three questions, two or three clients, right? And then when you’re super slow, you happen to over say it to like a whole bunch of people.
Steve Fretzin [09:34]
Yeah, but the pushback is going to be, I’m doing the work. The work is great. I have a good relationship with them. They trust me to take care of their business, and I’m busy. And so you’re asking me to now step up and go beyond in a you know, that with my time and my energy when I don’t really have any what, that’s obviously not what needs to happen. So what? How do you manage that?
Stacey Brown Randall [09:57]
Yeah, you know, a lot of times with my clients, we’re not I. Think the misconception is, is like, Hey, I’m doing these work this, work output, right? What I call work touch points, but like, work output, work touch points. And now you want me to add in a bunch of relationship building touch points. And I’m usually like, not a bunch, but I do want, of all your work, of all the touch points you do, I do want about 20% of them to be on the relationship side. So that means, let’s just take so I teach the client experience like it comes in three stages, right? There’s the new stage, the active stage and the alumni stage. In the new stage, let’s just say, for sake of argument, there’s like 10 things that happen when a new client comes on board and they’re in that new stage period. Now, your new stage is like, as long as you want it to be like, everyone gets to dictate how long theirs is. It’s your shortest stage, but you get to dictate kind of what it looks like. But let’s just say, for sake of argument, there are 10 work touch points that you do. Well, I’m just asking that you consider adding in one or two that would actually be relationship based. And these are things that you should do for every client so that they become part of the checklist. They become part of the this is how we do it. And that doesn’t mean some of these things can’t be handed off to somebody else on the team that Right? Definitely, you can have support in doing this as the attorney. You do not have to do all of these yourself, but it goes a long way if you connect with your clients during each of these stages, and you’re meeting them where they are and then specifically in what they’re thinking about, but they’re not saying to you.
Steve Fretzin [11:20]
Yeah, so what’s this the first stage is sort of the new stage. Then what comes after that?
Stacey Brown Randall [11:24]
Then it comes the active stage. So if your clients when they’re in the active stage, that’s where we have to combat the lull of complacency, because it’s the longest stage, and it’s where most of the work is done. Now if your clients finish working with you, and then they’re going to move to the alumni stage, and of course, that stage can go on indefinitely, but there’s no work being done in the alumni stage, it’s just the relationship touch points at that point, right? But in the active stage, like, let’s just say, for sake of argument, you consider your client kind of some people pick a new stage as like, 30 days on the calendar. Others pick it as like, when they get to this point, like, this thing has been delivered. Now they’re not new. Now they’re active. But for a lot of folks, that active stage can last years. For other folks, that active stage just last a couple of months. And so it just depends on the length of how long it lasts. And then considering what you want to do in that stage, you’re delivering the work. You’re doing things your client doesn’t see, right? But you’re delivering the work. And then on top of that, you want to make sure you’re also still connecting. On that relationship side.
Steve Fretzin [12:21]
There’s some parts of the relationship that have to be the lawyer, and then there may be some that can be automated or delegated. You have suggestions for the latter, or for the delegation and the automation?
Stacey Brown Randall [12:33]
Yeah. So I’m a big proponent on recognizing kind of like this balance between the ability to have things automated and be efficient, versus the ability to actually do a high touch and have engagement and connection. And I think you kind of have to have a balance to those and figure out what works best for your Firm. I’m a big believer and a big proponent that if you’re going to send a card right, that it should really be handwritten. Now is there? Can you come up with some decisions in the client experience? So like, if people have ever heard me talk before, they’re like, oh, Stacey says the person who gets the referral has to write the Thank You card. I’m like, that’s for a referral received right now, we’re just talking about what you’re doing for clients. So this is a little bit different. But I think if you’re going to do a handwritten thank you note, somebody needs to write it right and they don’t have to sign your name. They can sign your name and team, right? Give me Steve and team. It doesn’t, and that’s clearly okay, right from the perspective of them, knowing somebody else probably wrote this card. It doesn’t take away from the sentiment. So definitely, there’s obviously those things that we can know, outsource and delegate. I think it’s figuring out what is automated already and what you do. Where do you need a human touch? And Is any of that in the relationship side? Then you determine, Okay, now who’s the right person on our team? Yeah, to actually handle that, that piece that we decided can’t be automated needs to be personalized.
Steve Fretzin [13:53]
Yeah? Because I think there’s some existing and some new inbound AI stuff that’s going to be happening. So I know you know, you’ve got two boys and seniors, and they’re going off to school. And, like, I have an automation that lets me know, like, Oh, here’s some information about kids going to college next year, and how to save for it, or whatever it might be. And it automates that, hey, I should send, you know, send this to Stacey. It automates the email in there, and it’s off to you. So it’s showing that I’m paying attention, I care, I’m remembering things about you specifically. I think that’s coming. Is that going to be a big part of the future you think?
Stacey Brown Randall [14:30]
Yeah, I think the issue will be people knowing when to use AI and when not to because the unfortunate thing is, the more and more people use AI and they don’t disclose that they’re using AI, the more skeptical, right? We all become, yeah, and the minute we get to a point where we don’t know if what you’re sending is you or something AI created to look like you, then we start discounting everything. So I think there it’s just like with everything, like moderation, right? I mean, there you could have a better. Business and use no AI there’s that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you. You can have a business and do a whole bunch of AI, but you still have to have discernment on when you need to step forward and it be some type of human connection with somebody at your company, someone at your firm, whether that’s you or somebody else on the team. But whatever you do, do not present things as you that are clearly AI, because that is how we find ourselves on a slippery slope of people just not trusting anything that we send.
Steve Fretzin [15:29]
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Stacey Brown Randall [17:42]
Do you mean from the testimonial perspective, like requesting.
Steve Fretzin [17:45]
There’s referrals. Yes, we want to, you know, love to get referrals, but we also want to get testimonials and recommendations, because I think it helps people understand our value and understand that when they go to our LinkedIn profile, for example, that that’s our resume, and if I had a resume that I’m going to a business with for a job, and there was five testimonials on the resume saying why I was, you know, God’s gift to sales, or God’s gift to law, or whatever it might be, it wouldn’t hurt my chances of getting that job. Right. Nobody does that with resumes, although that’s not a bad idea, by the way. I came up with that first, in case anyone’s listening like, that’s right, that’s me, right. But I think in business, it just, it’s helpful and I but I’m asking you, I guess, as the expert getting them, is, you know, maybe similar to referrals. It’s not something that’s, you know, expected or owed, but it’s something that’s nice to have.
Stacey Brown Randall [18:33]
Yeah. So it’s interesting, the longer that I’m in this space of talking about referrals, right? And I know lots of people teach referrals differently. Some people will teach you how to ask, some people will teach you how to compensate, like to how to give a kickback for them, or create, like an affiliate or some type of loyalty program. And other people will teach you, like rings of networks and rings of people that you know that you’re trying to stay connected to, and things like that. I know there’s lots of different ways that you can talk about referrals, and the deeper I have been in the referral space, and I’ve always stood by the fact that there are ways to generate referrals without ever having to ask for them, it is always interesting to me how it bleeds over to people thinking that means I’m an advocate for not asking for other things, right? So I don’t advocate for asking for referrals, and I teach my clients how to do it differently so they don’t have to feel awkward and desperate, right? If you don’t feel awkward and desperate asking for referrals, great, then ask if you do, just know there’s another way, right? But referrals are very different from online reviews and testimonials. Just like you have to be willing to ask for the business when you’re talking to a prospect, at some point, you have to get to the place where you’re like, are we going to move forward? Are you going to hire me? Like you have to be able to ask for the business. I think it’s also okay that you know and are confident in asking people to provide those testimonials or online reviews or to stand as a recommendation, right? That your clients can actually or your prospects can have a conversation with before they hire you. I think that’s really important, and knowing how to. Do That is important. I think everyone does it a little bit differently in terms of how to make that work, but that should definitely be part of as they’re leaving the active state, at a minimum, as they’re leaving the active stage, headed into the alumni stage, that request for testimonial should be definitely a part of that process.
Steve Fretzin [20:16]
Yeah. Awesome, awesome. And you know, you talk a little bit about managing expectations. What percentage of clients should be referring as a starting point?
Stacey Brown Randall [20:25]
Yeah. So I always tell folks like, be like, when we look at clients referring you, aim for that 20 to 30% if you’re not there, that’s where you’re headed first. If you are there, you’re actually quite normal. Then we can pay attention to the ability to grow from there. But the truth is, even though your clients love you, even though you would love for them to refer you, some just don’t think about it, and it almost doesn’t matter what you do, and they’re just never going to be at that place where they’re going to think to refer you. Some will, some won’t. So I always tell folks like, manage your expectations to that 20 to 30% but absolutely right. Like, part of building out a referral client experience is knowing, like, okay, we’re in what percentage we’re at now and then, how are we going to grow that, and what is that going to grow to? But I am really wary of businesses that say two things to me, the ones that say we only work by referral. None of our clients come to us except for by referral. It’s almost, almost always, never the truth, like and not that they’re lying on purpose.
Steve Fretzin [21:21]
It sounds great, but it’s not true.
Stacey Brown Randall [21:23]
It makes them feel good, and they think it’s true, and then I dig into their dad, and they’re like, this is not true. I’m like, not even close to being true. They usually count. What I find is they usually count repeat clients as referred clients. I’m like, No, those are repeat clients. They’re like, Oh, I guess all my business doesn’t come through referrals. I’m like, No, it doesn’t. Very rarely, does it, right? So like, when people say, like, Oh, my business comes through referrals. Or the other thing I’m very wary of is when people say, all my clients refer me, like, no, they don’t. And so being really clear about what that looks like sets expectations of where you are, and then what we can actually make true in terms of growth.
Steve Fretzin [21:56]
Yeah, and I’m one of the gentlemen that you mentioned. Look, I would love for my clients to build relationships at such a level that they get referrals coming in without asking. However, they’re not, and many of them need to have an approach to ask. I obviously am the sales Free guy. So everything I try to teach is how to not sound pushy, and sometimes it just comes down to language. I think we hit this on our last episode, right? So you know, mentioning that it’s uncomfortable and that it’s not your jam and everything and but it would be so meaningful. And in some cases, they go, Oh, I always thought you were too busy, or I always thought you were this. They have these preconceived notions about how busy their lawyers are, how whatever that their lawyer never wanted the business, and it’s like this huge misunderstanding that’s been gone, that’s been under the radar for all these years, that gets brought to the surface, but you have a system that really doesn’t that focuses on getting the referral without that ask and without even a soft ask. So what’s one or two tips that you give in your regular coaching sessions and training sessions that you could share with us today.
Stacey Brown Randall [23:01]
Yeah, I think the thing about what I always tell my clients is, when we have conversations about the tactics they want to use to generate referrals, I’m like, you have to figure out what you’re comfortable with, right? And some people are comfortable with the direct ask, and others are what we would call more likely to be like, from what I teach is to plant referral seeds. And that referral seed language, it’s the language we use. It’s also the power of suggestion. We do not directly come at something, right? Asking someone to refer you directly comes at it. The ask also then becomes your trigger. So sometimes you have to keep asking them, for them to keep remembering to refer you. So what I teach is like, let’s have a strategy in place where you’re taking care of the people who you want to refer you, or are referring you, where you actually have opportunity to take care of them, but use what we call referral seed language in those moments. So as this happens over the course of a year, maybe five or six or seven times of outreach over the course of the year. That’s five, six or seven times throughout the year, you’re you’re leading with the whole concept of planting referral seeds and that power suggestion without ever having to say, yes, I want your referrals. Or can you give me referrals? Right? And so it’s just a shift in the language in terms of what that looks like and how we have to be cognizant of that. You know, one of the things that people overlook sometimes, when I teach people my language, they’re like, Wait, it’s that simple. I’m like, Yes, I just happen to have a business because you didn’t think of it. So, yeah, of it, so I’m happy for me, right? But, like, one of the things people don’t realize is that in the client experience specifically, right? Keeping it on that topic, the client experience specifically, one of the most powerful things you can do is, if you have a client who was referred to, you remind that client that they were referred to.
Steve Fretzin [24:40]
Yes, oh my god, that’s so brilliant. Oh my god, wow.
Stacey Brown Randall [24:44]
You don’t have to say anything other than I am so glad that Steve referred you to me. So we have this opportunity to work together. And you don’t sit at every meeting and you don’t say it at every zoom call, because that’s weird and creepy, and then you really look desperate. But you can say it, your team can say it. It can be written. And things. It can go out in emails, but there should be moments where, you know, hey, in this call, this call that we have with all our clients, it happened on the 30th day. I’m just making something up, right? This one call happens with all our clients because we’re delivering the results, or we’re giving them the will or whatever we’re doing, right? This one thing happens, we’re just going to make sure, in this one call, we’re going to plant the referral seed of reminding them that they were referred to us. Yeah, that’s awesome, but you can’t do it. I do want to say this though, Steve, you can’t do it once and be like, Whoa. I did it. I said it, I got it, I knocked it out. I’m good. You’re right. And here come my river of referrals. You have to keep planting them as you go. It’s just a different tactic, right? And it fits for the people that that, when they hear that, they’re like, I could say that, that I could say, right? Like, perfect. And that’s who it’s for.
Steve Fretzin [25:48]
Yeah, yeah. And you didn’t say plan a referral seed. You said seeds. So there we go. Yes, I love that. And let’s go to what’s Stacey’s big mistake.
Stacey Brown Randall [25:59]
Oh my. It’s like, how many do you want, right?
Steve Fretzin [26:02]
Well, let’s go with 10, and we’ll work our way down. No, we’re gonna do well, big mistake. It’s we could call it your biggest mistake. If you Well, I don’t know if it’s my biggest All right, why don’t we just call it the big mistake?
Stacey Brown Randall [26:11]
Yeah, it’s funny. I don’t think I tried to reflect too much on those so I, like, I didn’t come up with the laundry list, which actually made me pretty happy with myself when you asked that question. But you know, one of the mistakes that I would say that I did not know it was a mistake when I was making it, but in hindsight and retrospect and looking at it, I’m like, Oh, that was a mistake. I think one of the things that I did more when I was like any like younger and being a business owner, is that I didn’t protect my mindset, and I listened to other people’s thoughts and advice and opinions and what they thought my business should look like, and what they thought my business, how my business should be built, and so and I think a lot of women fall into that trap, particularly those that choose to have children of like being a mom and a business owner and what that looks like. I think it just brings up a whole bunch of other stuff for us, and in particular, like not saying any other body else’s experiences don’t matter, but I do think in that way, sometimes I would allow other people to have opinions about my business, and before I would be like, No. I would be like, well, and I would let their thoughts into my thoughts. And I learned that early. I think it’s one of the reasons why my first business failed, and I now I’m much more protective of my mindset. Now I’m much more protective of being like, when I hear someone talk about their success and they’re like, Whoa, I hit six. I hit a million dollars. I instant. Instead of going, oh, I want that. I want that. And that’s what I want. You know? What I say? I’m like, because I’ve done the math on what it looks like to hit a million dollars, I’m like, I’m not going to work that hard. I make way more profit at a different lower number.
Steve Fretzin [27:42]
Yeah, a million dollars at 10% profit, right? Versus a half a million at 80% profit? Which would you take.
Stacey Brown Randall [27:49]
All day long? Yeah? So it’s the ability to hear people talk about things happening in their world, and for me to very quickly reframe it so I can block it from coming into my mind. Yeah. But truly, I do think letting people into my mindset and influencing my thoughts about myself before I had figured out what I thought, led to my first business failing, and definitely is something that I’m much better about now.
Steve Fretzin [28:12]
Yeah, that’s a great life lesson. I mean, you know, what can you control? What can’t you control? You can control how you feel. You can’t control what other people say and do, but you can control how what you let in. And I love and it’s fantastic. All right, we’re going to wrap up soon. I want to just mention you’ve got a fantastic new book out the referable client experience. We just share a little bit about that book.
Stacey Brown Randall [28:34]
Yeah, so this is book number two. Is five years late, but I finally got it out the door, so I’m really proud.
Steve Fretzin [28:40]
Yeah, grab it on Amazon. Yes.
Stacey Brown Randall [28:44]
Anywhere you buy books, you can find it there is printed copy. Of course, there’s the ebook and the audio version as well. And I do read the audio version. So that’s another fun little thing to do when you’re trying to, you know, birth a book is, and also sit down and read the whole thing. Yeah? But yeah. So I’m really excited. It’s wherever books are sold, I teach 20 different referral strategies and tactics to my clients. My first book was focused on one of those strategies. This book is focused on the client experience, and that’s just another one of those strategies. But these are like, what I call the like, the big ones, the ones that you should definitely have in place in your business. So I can’t wait for people to start diving into it and obviously leaving five star waiting in reviews if they love it, if they don’t love it, don’t leave a review. Just email me, yeah, tell me, yeah. That’s much better than going online and not leaving a five star review. But yeah. So it’s a great book. It took forever to get out into the world, but it’s there, and I’m very excited.
Steve Fretzin [29:37]
Congratulations. It’s it’s a big deal to put out a book, let alone too. So kudos to you. Five years late. Nobody knows, and of course, you said it, but everyone now, everyone knows, but everybody knows. Yeah, you didn’t have to say that. Usually. I was planning it for you know exactly at this time ever, yeah, yeah. Great stuff. Let’s take a moment. Thank our wonderful sponsors, legal, verse, media, everybody. We’ve got rankings, io and. Of course, the law, her podcast. Check those out. And Stacey, people want to get in touch with you. They want to talk to you about what you do. They want to get your book. They want to, you know, engage you in some way best way to reach you,
Stacey Brown Randall [30:12]
Yeah, Home Base is always going to be the website. Stacey Brown Randall.com but really, if you’re wanting to, like, reach out and ask questions and have a conversation, disconnect with me through LinkedIn or Instagram. You can always find me at Stacey Brown Randall.
Steve Fretzin [30:24]
Yeah. And as always, such a pleasure to have you. And I’m happy you know that you’re doing what you do, and it’s a very noble thing. I think people think, you know, coaches and consultants and this they have, you know, no, we’re doing some great work to help people live their best lives, and that’s what this show is all about. And and I just appreciate you coming back and sharing your wisdom and giving some great, great tips and ideas for my audience. Thank you for having me, yeah, hey, and thank you everybody for hanging out with Stacey and I for last 30 I know you got a lot out of it, because I’ve got my usual page of notes, and I’m going to put out some great videos on my YouTube channel and make sure that you know, if we can get this up and above the law, we will do that. About half of the podcasts I do are up and above the law with video clips and such, or check that out and just, you know, be that lawyer. Everybody confident, organized, skilled Rainmaker. You know, the routine, take care. Everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll talk again soon.
Narrator [31:21]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website. Fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.