When law firms are waging bidding wars for top partners, and AI is reshaping billable work, how do lawyers actually take control of their careers? In this episode, you’ll hear how lateral moves, books of business, and smart networking can dramatically change your leverage—whether you stay in BigLaw or go out on your own.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Stuart TenHoor discuss:
- Current demand for lateral partners and food and drug law specialists
- Counteroffers, LPQs, and smarter lateral partner integration
- Business development, books of business, and compensation gaps
- AI’s impact on associates, efficiency, and the future firm model
- Going solo, distributed firms, and strategic career planning with recruiters
Key Takeaways:
- The lateral market for quality partners is extremely active, and firms that invest in thoughtful integration are winning the best talent.
- Counteroffers can derail months of work; smart firms and candidates address the possibility upfront rather than reacting at the last minute.
- A strong book of business dramatically increases leverage, compensation, and options, while pure “service partners” face more limits.
- AI is changing how junior work is done and how value is delivered, but experienced lawyers who learn to manage it become even more efficient and competitive.
- Moving to a solo or distributed model can be lucrative and flexible, but it requires a clear plan, a niche, and a strong network—not a reaction to a bad day.
“Helping people by giving value is sales-free selling.” — Stuart TenHoor
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About Stuart TenHoor: Stuart TenHoor is a veteran legal recruiter and founder of Stuart TenHoor Legal Search, specializing in the placement of FDA, life sciences, and regulatory attorneys. After earning his B.A. from Alma College and J.D. from William & Mary Law School, he gained valuable legal and legislative experience—including work on the U.S. Senate Labor and Human Resources Committee and in private practice—before entering executive recruiting in 1988. Recipient of the 2026 “Service to FDLI” Award from the Food and Drug Law Institute, Stuart is a widely published author and speaker on life sciences hiring trends, as well as an active mental health advocate serving on the NAMI Maryland Board of Directors.
Connect with Stuart TenHoor:
Website: https://www.stuarttenhoor.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tenhoor/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:01]
Before we jump in today’s show, if you’ve been listening to the podcast or reading any of my books, the Be That Lawyer community is clearly the next step for your growth and development as a rainmaker. Learn proven strategies, connect with ambitious lawyers just like you, and put new ideas into action. Check it out at bethatlawyer.com/community. Build your book, own your future, and be that lawyer.
Narrator [00:30]
You’re listening to Be That Lawyer: life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:52]
Hey, everybody. Steve Fretzin here, and welcome to the Be That Lawyer podcast. I’m so happy you’re with us again. Twice a week, every week, coming up on, I don’t know, 630 episodes, Stuart. You were on a a bunch of year, you were like a you’re like just a child when I met you back in the day having you on the podcast. Everything good by you?
Stuart TenHoor [01:13]
Yes, things are going really well. It’s a very active market. There’s a lot of demand for quality partners, so that’s my bread and butter is placing food and drug partners.
Steve Fretzin [01:22]
Yeah, I’ll tell you what. I I can’t tell you in 18 years I’ve been working in legal where I’ve seen such a demand for lawyers. I don’t know that there is a lawyer who wants to work that isn’t working right now. And and changing roles, it’s happening every day on LinkedIn. I’m seeing another lawyer being welcomed into a new firm. You’re kind of seeing the same thing then.
Stuart TenHoor [01:42]
Absolutely. No, the demand, I’m actually giving a, session in next month’s, National Association of Legal Search Consultants, conference out in Austin. It’s a symposium, one day. And it’s about counteroffers. And what we’re trying to do is spot the potential for a counteroffer from day one before you invest all these resources into a candidate. If your law firm is sensible and savvy, they’re thinking about this guy or this woman. They’re valuable, and their firm doesn’t want them to go.
Steve Fretzin [02:16]
Yeah.
Stuart TenHoor [02:16]
So there’s been like bidding wars. I mean, we know that there’s partners in major law firms making $20 million bucks a year. That’s a lot of money.
Steve Fretzin [02:24]
Yeah, I don’t want to go off a on a tangent, cuz I want to get to our quote of the show, but I want to come back to this this conversation, because I have a a thought about it. I want to bring up to you and ask you about. But let’s jump in, Stuart. We’ve got our quote of the show. I appreciate, you know, I’m in Illinois, like Abe Lincoln, Illinois. So here we go. Good things may come to those who wait; better things often come to those who hustle. And I love that. So welcome back to the show. Great to see you, my friend. And tell us a little bit about why you love that quote.
Stuart TenHoor [02:52]
Well, I’m from Grand Rapids, Michigan, and I used to get to Chicago a lot. I I like your hometown there quite a bit. But, you know, Abe Lincoln. I used to dress up as Abe Lincoln for Halloween and go down to the Lincoln Memorial, because I’m in the DC area. And people would get spooked, because I’m about 6’4 and slender. So it was kind of fun. Anyway, I just think it demonstrates what the reality is even back in the 1800s for business people. Again, whether it was Abe Lincoln or not, but it gets attributed to him. I think that the drive to succeed by helping people by giving value is your sales-free selling. You came up with that idea many years ago, which is a great phrase. I actually looked you up on ChatGPT, and it attributed it to you. So you’re doing the right thing.
Steve Fretzin [03:42]
All right, I appreciate that. And I honestly I I don’t need to hustle, like I don’t need to. Like I just I can’t stop. I can’t I’m just built that way. And I just love I love the hustle, and I love meeting new lawyers and doing my show and like creating content and being useful and helpful to the industry. And so, I mean, I can wait. I don’t know what I’m waiting for. Good things come to those who wait. I I’d rather just do and and and make it happen versus waiting and hoping. I think hope is an overrated a personality trait, if we want to call it that. Everybody, Stuart TenHoor is a good friend of mine, Stuart TenHoor Legal Search, and give us a little background how you came to be and and then then I think we’re going to probably take a pretty good deep deep dive into things.
Stuart TenHoor [04:26]
Great. Now, thanks for that invite. I am 30-plus years into the business now. When I started, there weren’t that many legal search consultants, and I’m in the Washington, D.C. area. I had an office in D.C. for many years, and what I found was, you know, it’s kind of funny, I was working as a senior associate in a law firm, and I liked landing clients more than doing the work. So, I got into this business, thought about it for a number of months, interviewed with some other search firms in the D.C. area, and accepted a position. And it just suited my temperament quite a bit. Like, I love helping people. I love helping lawyers. I had the training as a lawyer. I’d worked in a major law firm. So, that enabled me, I think, to connect maybe better, because I understood the milieu of the practice of law in a major law firm.
Steve Fretzin [05:18]
Yeah, really cool, really cool. And I want to go back to what you said. So I just, you know, you mentioned sales-free selling, and I’m putting two and two together, how a law firm could use some of that for recruiting and the counteroffer situation. So let’s say that I’m interviewing somebody for a role with my firm, and they’re going to leave their firm, and I’m thinking about sales-free selling. So first of all, build trust and likability and all of that. Ask questions to identify their pain points from a standpoint of like, why would they want to leave this firm? What are they not getting out of the firm? Is it just money, or are they like unhappy with their boss, unhappy with the work? Like, what are the main reasons why they would want to leave a situation that they may have been at for 5 or 10-plus years? And then, before they leave your office, I talk about this thing called a clincher. And a clincher is like looking at the future and addressing it before it happens. So hypothetically, you go back to your firm, we make you an incredible offer, and then they counter, and it’s maybe the same offer, maybe it’s even a couple bucks more. How would you handle that based on everything you shared with me about your frustrations and challenges with that firm? Is that something you would jump at, or is that something that you would, you know, kind of focus against? So anyway, Stuart, I’d like to get your take on that, but I’m kind of putting a scenario out there of a way that a law firm would address something before it comes up.
Stuart TenHoor [06:38]
Yeah, I think law firms are much more aware of this, I think. There’s something called lateral partner integration, and the firms that do that really well are better at recruiting. I’ve had a situation in the last year where the folks were just on top of every step. They were anticipating this partner group that I worked with them on, they just anticipated: what do they need? What was the types of trade associations that they would want to appeal to? How the firm already had those relationships, and that their joining would deepen those relationships and benefit everyone. So that is key, I think, is having that lateral partner integration. And then, as I mentioned, the counteroffer situation. Yeah, you’ve got to head that off at the pass. You’ve got to. You don’t want to invest hours and hours of interview time and analysis, because there’s something called the Lateral Partner Questionnaire that every partner needs to fill out these days. 10 years ago, it was just a few firms that asked for that, but nowadays, you got to put your entire practice metrics on a form that could be anywhere from 3 pages to 15 pages. It’s kind of unnerving when you start the process. I think that actually can scare somebody a little bit when they first hits them that, Oh my god, I’ve got to fill these out for five or six or eight different law firms. What do I do? and my organization, my trade association, National Association of Legal Search Consultants, NALSC, they put together a universal LPQ, kind of like the college board application process, cuz wanted to have one consistent LPQ that every law firm would accept, and we’ve gotten some major acceptances, but still, most law firms want to see their own individual LPQ, which is very time-consuming to put together.
Steve Fretzin [08:25]
In the In the past, you know, there are recruiters, well, not in the past, but I mean, but there, you know, there are recruiters who are looking for lawyers that are high performers and high business developers, rainmakers, 500 on the low end, million and up, as part of the deal of of making a transition laterally. With the, you know, the high level of need that’s going on right now, that may not be the case. Maybe you’ll tell me it still is, but are lawyers still seeing, you know, answer that, but then also, are lawyers still seeing business development as the path to the lateral move, or is that not still not being considered enough?
Stuart TenHoor [09:02]
Well, I actually just posted on LinkedIn this week on that very topic. I think most law firms are looking for talent, number one. Number two, a demonstration of talent is how are you with client relationships? If you’re good at it, you’re going to have a pretty blockbuster LPQ. That’s just the nature. There’s, you know, the old phrase was finders, minders, binders, and grinders. You know, if you’re a grinder, if all you can do is do the work really well, you know, more and more so you’re going to be impeded, or you’re going to be beholden to the partner that’s generating the work that you’re doing. Yeah. So you need to have that independent ability. I’ve placed partners coming out of the FDA. I’ve placed partners coming out of companies, and they started from zero. But you can kind of pick up after 20 interviews what this person’s all about, whether they’re going to be able to I would say the test is, as you’re a partner interviewing other partners to join your law firm, the question is, if you had your best client, the one you love, the one you get tickets to the Bulls games with, those are the the litmus tests of whether you’re going to hire this person. If you put that person in front of your best client, would they go, Man, that person’s impressive. Yeah, I can I can do work with them. I’d love to have them work on stuff for me.
Steve Fretzin [10:24]
Yeah. And that could be relationship, intelligence, personality, there’s a number of factors that goes into somebody who, you know, others would enjoy and and feel you know, like they’re a valued part of the team.
Stuart TenHoor [10:36]
Yeah, emotional intelligence is is critical.
Steve Fretzin [10:39]
Yeah, yeah. So have you seen, you know, I think I’ve seen in particular women stepping up and developing more business than in the past? Like, for example, 10% of my clients in a given year would be women. Now it’s like 50, almost 60% of the people I’m bringing on to learn business development, to take on the challenge of working with a coach and growing a book of business are women. What are you seeing in the market on that end?
Stuart TenHoor [11:06]
Yeah, it’s a fabulous question, because I love women. I love how they’ve come into the profession and do it their own way. And they’re successfully. I would say at least half of my placements are women partners who’ve developed that. You know, things have changed in the sense that I think there’s more societal acceptance, for instance, of a man staying home with the family or being the primary person in the family and the woman being the rainmaker, the generator, the the income provider. And I think there’s more acceptance of that. I think that happens more often and it happens because, you know, women like the practice of law, too. And they’re very successful in in building those relationships, in landing clients, in being reliable. And that’s, you know, that’s what you want if you’re a large pharmaceutical company or medical device company, you want to have a quality person with, I call it concierge services. What that means really is the law firms, the big law firms that have the biggest food and drug law practices, the Covingtons, the Sidleys, the King & Spaldings, the Arnold & Porters, they have they do everything for their clients. They can do anything under the sun, and the client’s happy because they don’t have to go to multiple law firms and re-explain the same issues to different lawyers. They’ve got a team that understands what they’re doing.
Steve Fretzin [12:33]
Well, I think there’s also a lot of the the stigma associated with you have to be a golfer at the golf club, smoking cigars and drinking martinis, you know, at lunchtime that to get business. I think I don’t know that I’m working with any client in the last 10 years where I’ve said, You know what you need to do? You need to join a golf club, become a great golfer, glad-hand everyone at the club, and sell your services to, you know, the CEOs that are your part— It’s never come up. It’s there’s so many other incredible ways to do it naturally and to build a brand and to build and do BD without having that. So I think it’s allowed women to understand, look, you don’t have to play that stupid game. There’s, you know, women actually are better at relationship building in many ways than men. And so it’s it’s been incredibly rewarding for me to work with more women and be able to help help them achieve the rainmaker status to be that lawyer and not just, you know, point at the other, you know, point at the the rich white guy that runs the firm or whatever that stigma is. So let me ask you about Lateral Partner Questionnaire that was, you know, nearly all Am Law 200 firms, you know, took and how that changed the perception of business development by law firm partners. What’s what’s the the kind of the result of that, and what’s your take?
Stuart TenHoor [13:42]
Well, I think it just enhances. Maybe that’s not the right word. It heightens the focus on what can you do as a lawyer at our firm. If you join our firm, what’s it going to look like? So having that LPQ completed, or at least in your head, you’ve got a sense of this is where my client work’s been coming from, and these are the types of clients I like to work with, and I’m able to land. Or, you know, sometimes you don’t have a developed book of business, but you’re able to understand how the law firm you’re joining could join is going to help you ratchet up your ability to get work and keep yourself busy. That’s what it is. It’s like you know, look at law firms. I mean, Kirkland & Ellis is over $10 billion in gross revenue. I mean, that makes them the 342nd largest business in America. No one would have thought that 20 years ago that a law firm was going to be on the Inc. 500. But anyway, there are you know, thousands of units working together to try to maintain maintain client relationships and service them brilliantly as best as is is capable of doing it, as the firm is capable of doing, and the client relationships need to flow from that.
Steve Fretzin [15:09]
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Stuart TenHoor [17:01]
Well, I think in the D.C. metro area, for instance, I think comp-wise, if you’re a service partner, say you’re coming out of the agency, you’re coming out of an in-house role, their pay is typically less. They often come in as of counsel, sometimes partner, just depends. But when they come in that way, the firm’s kind of saying, Well, it’s going to be 18 months at a minimum before they start to really ramp up. So we’re going to start, you know, lower middle, and see where we get to based on their client development. Somebody that’s coming in with a LPQ that says, I’ve I’ve got a million eight in portable client base numbers, they’re going to be, you know, 50% higher.
Steve Fretzin [17:47]
Yeah.
Stuart TenHoor [17:48]
Maybe more. Could be. And also, in this day and age, it’s kind of a bidding war a lot of times. I mean, I’ve had this happen multiple times: good candidate, get them a good offer, they’re kind of excited about it, and then the two or three other firms that they’ve been talking to, it’s it’s amazing how fast offers drop once one offer’s dropped.
Steve Fretzin [18:06]
Yeah.
Stuart TenHoor [18:06]
But these other offers come in, and it becomes a bidding war. You know, is this person able to Can Can we throw Are we able to incentivize this candidate to join our firm from a monetary standpoint, and from a You know, I’ve had people come in as a interview as an income partner and asked for equity, and got equity in the negotiation process Yeah. because they were perceived as that valuable.
Steve Fretzin [18:35]
Yeah. And of course that’s, you know, a big part of that is having a book. I think you can be have expertise in a in a practice area, and they need you to fill that role. They need you to, you know, to take over for someone who left, or or whatever, but you just have so much more bargaining power when you have that book of business to come with you. No doubt about it. Are Are firms, when they bring in a lawyer without a book, do they want them to just be a service partner and just like, Here, we’ve got all this work, and you just need to crank it, or are they are they looking for them to do that and build their own book?
Stuart TenHoor [19:12]
I mean, it’s a mixture.
Steve Fretzin [19:13]
Okay.
Stuart TenHoor [19:13]
I think, you know, hopefully, I mean, most firms that are interviewing somebody coming from in-house or the agency, they’re not expecting them to bring business immediately, and they feel that they have work. They feel that they can in their system go to their clients and say, Boom! We now have this type of capability. This is a high-level person, very smart, and we want to introduce you to them, and they’ll be working on some of the matters that you’ve given us. And, you know, they’re Certainly, I think the lawyers that come in without a book, in most instances, are expected It’s just, you know, the way it works in a law firm. You’re going to be on client development efforts, you’re going to be working on RFPs, you’re going to be working on you know what a a lot of firms like to do is get on the approved provider list. So if you’re a large pharmaceutical company, you might have six or eight, you might have 25 different law firms that you’ve worked with them before and you like the way they do your work, and they’re on your approved provider list. And then when there’s a matter that comes up, they’ve got somebody who’s already greased. It’s really hard to break into that preferred provider list, but sometimes a lateral partner can break you in, which is also an appeal. You know, cuz some firms will know, hey, we’ve never been able to get any work from Merck or we’ve never been able to get any work from Pfizer, but you bring over a lateral partner who’s been doing work for them, that increases your chances quite a bit of getting on the approved provider list.
Steve Fretzin [20:42]
Yeah. Big Law is bringing in, you know, a significant investment into into AI to make, you know, and improve efficiencies. There’s a concern that the first to fourth-year lawyer at these firms may have a challenge in the future. Are you in the middle of that? At the beginning of that? Are you seeing that that there there might be And again, it may benefit the solo/small-firm world if all these Big Law first to fourth-year, you know, get displaced. They’re going to land, because right now there’s there’s such a great need. I don’t think it’s going to be a bunch of unemployed people. But what I mean, what’s your take?
Stuart TenHoor [21:20]
Yeah, AI is definitely changing the landscape, just like some other very amazing technological improvements over the last 30 years have done. I think that AI is being managed increasingly better by law firms. More and more law firms are using it. Probably most Am Law 200 law firms are using AI pretty regularly, but it does create some tenseness for junior associates cuz they’re learning to practice the law. You know, you don’t come out of law school with 10 years of experience practicing law. You’ve got to build that experience, and if clients are putting pressure on the law firms to be able to provide the most cost-effective service, which they are, I mean, I’ve worked with partners that are billing 2200 bucks an hour. You know, there’s not a lot of clients that want to pay 2200 bucks an hour. So you have to show value, and AI is helping increase the value cuz the work can get done more quickly. There’s I’m sure there’s more alternative fee arrangements happening. And I was involved with a seminar a few months ago where I thought this was a little bit too unlikely. But anyway, they’re saying in 5 years, there’d only be like 50 different major law firms that, you know, people recognize, you know, Kirkland & Ellis, Cravath, King & Spalding, whatever. There’s only going to be 50 firms, and what that produces is a bunch of smart partners who have the expertise. Maybe they take an associate who’s well trained in AI and let them manage the AI analysis, and they present it to the client and they monitor it, because you can’t rely on AI for everything. There’s hallucinations we all know, we’ve heard those stories. But if you know what you’re talking about, AI can make you a heck of a lot more efficient.
Steve Fretzin [23:13]
Yeah, really cool. And so there might be some folks that are going out on their own, whether it’s AI or it’s just major law firm partners that are frustrated with the system, and they’re going to go out on their own. And we’re already seeing this. I’m seeing you know, again, Big Law lawyers have gone to mid-market, they’ve gone on their own. But I think you know, there’s risks and rewards in going out on your own. I’m helping a lot of lawyers through that to, you know, plan and execute on that. What are What are you seeing with that with lawyers that go out on their own?
Stuart TenHoor [23:43]
I think it’s very challenging, but I see it happen all the time. Just got an announcement with a major pharmacy in-house lawyer decide to go out on his own. I think that will continue to happen. I think what actually there’s kind of a middle ground, which is a distributed law firm, like Practus or Gunnercooke, or there’s one in Northern Virginia that I can’t remember their name right now, but hey. Anyway, they’ve got a very good system of building a law firm really with independent practitioners. There’s interface so you got the value of other lawyers at your firm wanting to give you work or get work from you, so you have that cohesion, but you don’t have the overhead, and you end up making 80% generally of your collections. So if you can collect a million bucks on the work that you’re doing, independently, using AI or whatever, you’re going to make 800 at at some of these firms, which is a lot less than what you make in a major law firm. So going out on your own, though, it’s it’s a scary process, I think, and but it’s not for the faint-hearted, but it’s definitely can have great rewards if you enjoy that practice.
Steve Fretzin [24:58]
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s important to go out if there’s any way to go out and bring business with you, so you’re not day one like, all right, I don’t have any clients, I don’t have any money, I don’t have any business. Now, that for some can they can do that. Others they don’t have a choice. They can’t take things with them, or they don’t want to take things with them, and they just got to start from scratch. But it’s easier today than maybe it’s ever been. You don’t need to have a fancy office. You don’t need to hire people. You don’t need to do all these things day one. Websites aren’t, you know, 10, 20, $30,000. Like there’s all these benefits. You can get a VA, a virtual assistant, to help you, and, you know, as a paralegal, assistant, admin, marketing, for, you know, seven to $12 an hour US, like so it’s there’s a lot of easy ways to go. Where where lawyers fall apart in many instances is that they don’t have a plan. They don’t put a business plan together. They don’t put a budget together. And so, therefore, they end up in a situation where they’re just moving like, you know, just hustling around to try to, you know, figure out the tech, or they’re hustling around to, and they don’t have the right advisors. And I think it’s important there’s and there’s a lot of scam artists out there, too. You got to be careful. Like everybody’s going to tell you, I’ll 10x your this, and I’ll 20x your that, and I’ll, you know, put you in this software, and it’s proprietary, so you can’t ever take it with you. It’s like be buyer beware. But I think with the right with the right people in your corner So talk talk to other solos, right? Talk to other friends of yours who have gone out. What resources have they used? I’ve got this Be That Lawyer community. We have 100 lawyers in there. They’re all business developers. Many of them are solo. They’re all willing to talk, you know, and share their experiences and what works for them and advise. And so find a good network, and find find a good group of people to help you.
Stuart TenHoor [26:43]
Yeah, network is the key. And there’s so many different things that are available. There’s even support groups for different issues that might generate some client work because you have that commonality with somebody. That makes quite a connection sometimes with people. I have I’m deaf in my left ear. I have a had a brain tumor 35 years ago, benign. I’m fine, but that I’ve connected with people that have hearing issues, and they they just feel comfortable with me because I understand their issue.
Steve Fretzin [27:16]
Yeah. All right, so we have we have a few minutes left. I know I’m going to get to my final and favorite question in a minute, but if you had to give a tip right now as the market sits today for a lawyer who may be unhappy at their firm, they’re not, you know, being valued, there’s a number of things that are going on there, how, like, do they reach out proactively to a recruiter that’s referred? Do they take the phone call that’s coming in by some random recruiter that’s promising the world? Like, what’s the the best strategy for an individual lawyer that is looking to make a move?
Stuart TenHoor [27:50]
Yeah, that’s a great question. It’s all about preparation. I mean, when you go to court, you know, you’re preparing for a trial 2, 3, 4, 6, 8 months out. You know what the questions are you’re going to ask, you’ve gone through the depositions, you’ve done everything you need as a litigator. You’re not going to just show up, you know, at 10:00 a.m. in Cook County Courthouse and say, Ah, I’m ready. You’ve prepared. It’s no different here. The preparation should be sifting through the calls you get. There’ll be random calls coming in. 80% of them are probably not going to be that helpful, or not going to be dealing with somebody who’s really savvy in the marketplace. But 10 or 20%, why not engage? Why not talk? You know, build that LinkedIn base. Used to be 10 years ago law firm associates, they were afraid to connect with me on LinkedIn. Like, Oh, I can’t do that. Can’t do that. My advice to them was, No, you should do it because people will say that guy is taking his career seriously. He’s connected to folks that can give him advice. So, what you want to do is be proactive, look at your options, and don’t wait till the last minute to decide, you know, randomly, I’m I’m really bummed out, you know.
Steve Fretzin [29:01]
I had a bad day, right? I had a bad day, I got to leave this place. Well, you’re not prepared at all to do that.
Stuart TenHoor [29:07]
No, that’s it’s shocking to me sometimes, but people do that. I had a bad day. A recruiter caught me on a bad day. and, you know, they talk it out, and then they back away because they haven’t been strategic about
Steve Fretzin [29:19]
- Right, right. All right, Stuart, you knew it was coming. What’s Stuart’s big mistake?
Stuart TenHoor [29:24]
Yeah, I yes, but I was at a big law firm. I was was only like a year, not even a year after my brain surgery, and I was still, you know, trying to figure out, it was quite an impact on me to to try to figure that out, and one day the I got referred to the partner that wasn’t even really in charge of me, but he came in and said, You know, we’re going to have to let you go. And I was like, Oh, god! And it was you know, I would say it was the most crushing blow to my ego, but I got over it, and it freed me up to say, Hey, what do I want to do? And I spent 6 months looking at being a real estate developer, looking at the legal search business, and actually the person that fired me, his next-door neighbor was a legal search consultant. You know, it was amazing. So I met with that person, you know, ostensibly to get a new job, and after 20 minutes he looked at me and he said, Did you ever think about being a headhunter? And I was like, What’s that?
Steve Fretzin [30:27]
Yeah. And
Stuart TenHoor [30:28]
here I am, you know, 30 years later, I’m I’m still doing it, and you know, really feel good about it.
Steve Fretzin [30:34]
Yeah, and I love how you specialize, too, in in the FDA space, and like not trying to be everything to everybody. I think more people would be successful if they if they really decided to pick a direction.
Stuart TenHoor [30:45]
Well, just to highlight that for a minute, I think what it does is my inbox is full of emails. I’m sure everybody that’s watching this podcast or is a professional gets an inbox full of emails. 95% of it I can tune out because it has nothing to do with food and drug law. 5% I’m focused on, I take action on, and it helps build my knowledge base and abilities as a legal search consultant specializing in placing food and drug lawyers.
Steve Fretzin [31:13]
Yeah. Well, it’s better to be known for something than not known for nothing, right? So, it’s kind of as they say, as the saying goes.
Stuart TenHoor [31:20]
Well, and that’s what you’re you’re known for. I mean, you had a brilliant idea that lawyers could need this help, and you’ve been building on it for many years, and and you’re a great resource for the people out there that Yeah. well, lawyers, they didn’t go to law school to be salespeople.
Steve Fretzin [31:36]
No, I know. I I found, you know, the niches the The riches are in the niches, and I found that here’s a community of people that are very smart, that I enjoy. I happen to work with the nicest lawyers in the world. I mean, these are all people I’ve become friends with, and and to be an adopted son into the, you know, legal community and having a lawyer father, and I know it, you know, before his passing, it it really connected us for many years being able to talk about what’s going on in the legal industry and even know some of the same lawyers and all that. Really, really fun. Well, I appreciate that and the kind words. Let’s take a moment, thank our incredible sponsors. Of course, we’ve got PIMCon coming up in October. If you’re in PI, you’re going to want to sign up for that. It it is a first-class experience. Lawyer.com, the top directory for getting found as a lawyer if you’re looking for business and to network, and then of course Lex Reception. You should not And talk about going out on your own, you know, this is a no-brainer. You don’t have to hire a receptionist, you don’t have to pay all that money. You get Everything’s outsourced today, so do it with the pros, Lex Reception. Stuart, people want to get in touch with you, they’re in the FDA space, they want to get into it, whatever, they want to work with you. What are the best ways for them to to reach you?
Stuart TenHoor [32:43]
Well, I’m very active on LinkedIn. I have my own website, of course, the stuarttenhoor.com, and I meet people at conferences sometimes. I’m active in the Food and Drug Law Institute. I’m a sponsor this year. I guess I’m a diamond sponsor. And a lot of I would say there’s probably not a food and drug lawyer on the planet that’s not heard of the Food and Drug Law Institute. There
Steve Fretzin [33:07]
you go. Be
Stuart TenHoor [33:08]
my guess, but anyway, it’s a great resource, and I support that organization, and it’s a great organization.
Steve Fretzin [33:15]
All right. Well, fantastic. Well, thanks for coming back on the show, sharing your wisdom. I think from a ownership of a firm side, from a lawyer side, from a solo side, there’s all these great takeaways from this 30 minutes we just spent together. And, guys, it’s all about building that book, owning your own future, and being that lawyer. That’s what you’re doing here, and that’s why you’re listening, and I appreciate you all so much. Take care, be safe, and be well, and we will talk again soon.
Narrator [33:45]
Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer: Life-Changing Strategies and Resources for Growing a Successful Law Practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretzin.com, for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.