Law school taught you how to practice law, but nobody taught you how to bring in clients or lead people. In her first podcast appearance ever, Susan B. Silverman explains why copying your firm’s top rainmaker won’t work, and how building on your own strengths, earning trust, and learning leadership as a skill can change your career.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Susan Silverman discuss:
- Why mid-level associates switch firms
- Mentorship, sponsorship, and structured associate development
- Business development based on your strengths, not sales pitches
- Building rapport and trust through vulnerability
- Moving from excellent attorney to effective leader
Key Takeaways:
- Business development isn’t one-size-fits-all. Copying the biggest rainmaker in your firm probably won’t suit your strengths, so start with what you already do well.
- Selling is really listening. Find out what problem the other person is dealing with, ask follow-up questions, and help them reach their goal.
- Relationships that bring in business take years, and timing matters. If you walk into every conversation needing a new client, that pressure can get in the way of the relationship.
- Making partner gives you a title, not leadership skills. Leadership means developing others, delegating, giving feedback, and influencing people without formal authority, and all of it can be taught.
- Don’t face a career crossroads alone. Talking to someone who can show you options beyond “stay or quit” can keep you from making a decision you regret.
“Making partner is a title. It doesn’t make you an effective leader. Leadership is a skill; it can be practiced, and it can be taught.” — Susan Silverman
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About Susan Silverman: Former commercial litigator and business development expert Susan B. Silverman helps law firms retain top mid-level associates, strengthen their leadership pipeline, and build systems that drive long-term growth. Having experienced firsthand how firms invest heavily in early training but leave mid-level associate development inconsistent, she acts as a trusted advisor to firm leadership to bridge structural gaps on the path to partnership.
Connect with Susan Silverman:
Website: https://susanbsilvermanconsulting.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/susan-b-silverman-consulting-llc/home/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:01]
Hey everybody! Before we get to the show, just a quick reminder about the Be That Lawyer community. From my podcast to my books, this is clearly the next step for you in your growth and development as a rainmaker. Stop doom scrolling and start microlearning, connecting, and getting fresh ideas from growth-minded lawyers from around the world. Visit bethatlawyer.com/community to sign up today. Build your book, own your future, and be that lawyer.
Narrator [00:33]
You’re listening to Be That Lawyer: Life-Changing Strategies and Resources for Growing a Successful Law Practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here is your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:55]
Hey, everybody! Steve Fretzin here, and welcome to the Be That Lawyer podcast. You guys know what this is, right? This is the show that you should be going to build your book, own your future, and be that lawyer. Marketing, business development, time management—all the things they taught you in law school. Oh, wait a second, that didn’t happen, right, Susan? They didn’t do any of that. None of it. Not at all. They left it out. Well, there’s some practice management classes in some law schools that are picking up on, hey, we need to start teaching, you know, folks this stuff. But it’s not like it needs to be. But that’s where we come in, right? We don’t want our jobs taken, right? So let the law schools continue to screw up. That works for us. Anyway, good to see you. How are you? Everything good?
Susan Silverman [01:34]
Yeah, it’s terrific. How are you today?
Steve Fretzin [01:36]
Really, really good. Coming back from the Rosh Hashanah weekend and ate like a pig yesterday, and probably then I had like the acid reflux at night. That’s not good. I can’t have that, so I had I had to go to sleep like in an upright position for about an hour. That’s not very smart. If I eat after seven, I’m just kind of in trouble. Probably a bad idea for me.
Susan Silverman [01:55]
Well, tout, it’s hard when you’re celebrating a family a holiday with family, and you want to maximize that time.
Steve Fretzin [02:01]
Yeah, well, the problem was the desserts. I I don’t do well with desserts, but anyway, that that’s just a little bit about me that no one needed to know. Let’s talk about something people do need to know, and that’s this incredible quote by Mel Robbins. If you guys are not a fan, she’s a fantastic author and and podcaster, and it’s the simplest and shortest quote we’ve ever had on this podcast, and it is simply let them. So, welcome to the show, Susan, and tell us why let them.
Susan Silverman [02:27]
Oh, well, thank you so much for having me today. Let them is it just relieves so much anxiety when I’m working with clients and talking with friends. It’s like, if you want to do that, great. Go ahead. You know, do it your own way. And it’s my philosophy. I’ve I’ve taken and borrowed from Mel. Let them.
Steve Fretzin [02:44]
Yeah. You know,
Susan Silverman [02:44]
I’ve had clients I’ve coached and given my best advice possible. They don’t follow it and they didn’t achieve their goal, but let them.
Steve Fretzin [02:53]
Yeah. It’s
Susan Silverman [02:53]
their life.
Steve Fretzin [02:54]
That’s it. And I’ve My wife and I have to like regularly do this with our teenager, with you know, it could be his weight. It could be his choice of classes. It could be his decision of who he’s hanging out with. Whatever it might be, like we just have to let let them and let him and you know, just that’s you know, we can’t control it all, right?
Susan Silverman [03:14]
I agree completely. And you’re referring to one of to what one of your child’s One of my children, my younger son, is now a Navy pilot. And when he told me that he wanted to commit to the Navy, I gave him I put on my coaching hat, and I said, You are a competent, capable individual. That being said, I’d like for you to do X, Y, and Z. And he says, Mom, I’ve heard what you have to say, but I really want to do what I feel passionate about. And I was like, You’ve considered your options, your choices. You listened to me, thank you. But I let him. Is you know, he’s capable, he’s an adult, and he’s now a successful Navy aviator.
Steve Fretzin [03:54]
That’s it. That’s it. Well, everybody, you are in for a treat today. I’ve got We’ve trapped Susan in a in a cage, and she’s We’re not letting her go for 30 minutes. Susan B. Silverman, a consulting. Give us a little bit about your background, how you came to be, and and helping lawyers to be their best lawyer selves.
Susan Silverman [04:11]
Sure. I started my career practicing commercial litigation. And while practicing commercial litigation, I earned my MBA at the University of Chicago at night. And through life transitions and life, I found myself needing to make a a choice, and I left I ultimately left the practice of law to care for a premature child. And through my zigzagging my way back into a career and finding what worked for me, what fit for my values in my life, I wound up being a starting my own career consulting business, and I help attorneys with business development and leadership skills. But along the way, you know, I help attorneys navigate life transitions and gain perspective, and hopefully see options that they otherwise couldn’t see on their own. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [04:58]
You know, I I want to talk business development with you, but I would be remiss if I didn’t at least hit you up a little bit on why you Why do lawyers look like why do they change firms? Why do they Like what’s going on that where they’re going to like leave a situation for another situation, like what are you seeing these days that that people are jumping ship? And I’m seeing just a lot on LinkedIn in particular, like all these firms picking up all this talent, and all these people moving and going out on their own, and doing all this shaking and moving these days.
Susan Silverman [05:28]
Yeah, well, I most of the movement that I’ve been seeing is if at the mid-level years, it’s once the attorneys have developed their legal expertise, and they know how to practice law. If they are in litigation, they know how to write a motion, make the argument, and do their time management, as well as marketing. And as soon as they are marketable and they are a profit source for the firm, they want to job hop, and they think the grass is greener somewhere else. And, you know, they probably do it for either they want better life work-life balance, or they think the money is going to be better. And or, or in addition, they think that the path to partnership is clearer at another firm.
Steve Fretzin [06:10]
Yeah. Maybe there’s greater transparency, or maybe they just understand like the the the ability to make equity is is quicker because they’re they’re just they’re definitely they’re actually giving you the path versus like, Hey, guess what the path is. Good luck. You know, we will never tell, you know, that’s that the lack of transparency.
Susan Silverman [06:28]
Exactly.
Steve Fretzin [06:29]
Yeah. So lawyers come out of law school. They go into big law. They get They learn the law. They’re becoming expert this at this thing. And then where is this business development and personal branding and all the things that help people actually bring in business, you know, they don’t really learn that anywhere, so they just figure it out on their own? What are you How are you seeing that?
Susan Silverman [06:50]
Well, I agree completely. You know, law firms spend a tremendous amount of time developing legal excellence. And then somewhere along the way, in the mid-level years, the the switch flips, and they think that the associates are going to know how to develop business and on their own, without any help with respect to how to do that.
Steve Fretzin [07:10]
Yeah. I mean, I interviewed a few managing partners before I started this podcast. I had some idea to take a microphone into a few offices and just get some content. And you know, one guy was banging on his desk and, you know, very passionate about business development. I said, Well, then how do you, you know, how does that translate to your team? And he goes, Well, I just tell them they’ve got to get out there. You’re not going to do anything in here. You got to get out there. And I was I walked out of there. I went, That’s not helpful. You know, just get out. So they’re wandering around LaSalle Street in Chicago and wondering what to do. You know, so that’s sort of like old school, you know, I think.
Susan Silverman [07:43]
Absolutely. And this is one of the reasons why I developed MLARD, which is the Mid-Level Associate Retention and Development. It’s a system, and it really helps the firms package it in a way that it can be replicated and help attorneys start to develop those skills.
Steve Fretzin [08:00]
Okay. And so like since you brought it up, like what is that Like what are those things that these associates need to develop to figure out BD, to be successful, to make it sustainable over a career?
Susan Silverman [08:12]
Well, part of it has to do with being introduced through to clients through sponsorship and mentorship. And a lot of firms do one, not the other. And it needs to be something that is structured so no one falls through the cracks. A lot of times, an associate may get the opportunity to do something for a client solely because that person was near the partner at the right time, and that’s not equitable.
Steve Fretzin [08:38]
Yeah. I wrote a LinkedIn piece recently about the fact that most law firms make an effort to help their attorneys write a business plan for the year, and what I shared, which is kind of mean, but true, I think, that they really do it to check a box. Like, who are your contacts? What conferences are you going to? All right, now you have a plan. Right here it is. It’s a list, it’s things you’re going to do, go do it. And then that thing gets shelved until the next year when they have them rewrite it, and they just change a few names and check a box, you know, whatever. But it’s not legit from a standpoint of of execution and tactical and actionable. What are you helping lawyers? What are some things you could share that help them better plan for how they’re going to approach BD?
Susan Silverman [09:24]
Well, sure. And one of the things that it’s important to recognize is it’s not a cookie-cutter approach.
Steve Fretzin [09:30]
A
Susan Silverman [09:30]
lot of firms or attorneys think, Well, I’m just going to copy the biggest rainmaker in the firm. Well, what works for that attorney is not necessarily going to work for you and not suit your strengths. One of the things that I develop is I built a Business Development Strengths Inventory that’s going to help identify your actual strengths, and that’s where you can someone can start building their business, honing in on those strengths.
Steve Fretzin [09:55]
Yeah.
Susan Silverman [09:56]
Whether that’s being a great networker or being a subject matter expert, and and or, you know, a connector and and really building deeper trust with clients.
Steve Fretzin [10:06]
Yeah. So, for some people, attending conferences, going to big events, you know, drinks in the hand, glad-handing, like right up somebody’s alley, they thrive in that environment. And then for us human beings, right? Then there’s like, we do better in one-on-one scenarios. Maybe we do better posting on LinkedIn, because it’s private and easy, and there’s no, you know, there’s there’s no one there to to get in our way, or whatever it might be. So, you know, your point is well taken that everyone needs to do what works for them, but it also needs to be something that’s going to be effective. So, there’s a balance there.
Susan Silverman [10:38]
Absolutely. And I’m sure you’ve heard it as well as I have. I so many attorneys say, I don’t want to sell. I don’t want to be salesy. That’s not my strength, it makes me very uncomfortable. And that’s not what networking means, and that’s not what business development means. It means how are you going to help your clients? They need to know what your strengths are. And it’s just building a relationship at the end of the day.
Steve Fretzin [10:58]
Yeah. So what so if sales isn’t going out and selling and being salesy and pitching, and you and I can have maybe a back-and-forth on this, because I think we see it very much the same way. What is it? Like what is networking, and what is business development at at its core that lawyers can hear and say, That actually sounds okay to me?
Susan Silverman [11:18]
Business development has a lot to do with listening to who you’re speaking with and really honing in on what is the problem that you’re grappling with, what do you need help with. And sort of doing asking follow-up questions with respect to helping them achieve that goal.
Steve Fretzin [11:35]
Yeah. If we can take the I I always wanted to change the word selling to solving, but it just doesn’t it doesn’t work. But that’s the way I want the brains to be wired for the people listening, is that when I when I teach and when I go out, and I’m I’m meeting with a new lawyer, or when a lawyer is going out meeting with a new GC, we try not to think about pitching, selling, convincing, chasing. What we’re really trying to do is we’re trying to they’ve got some legal issues, you solve legal issues. Can we understand them at a level where they feel understood and listened to and empathized with? And we feel like what they need is what we do, and we feel we’re perfectly suited to work. And if everybody’s on board, then let’s move it forward. And if there’s something that’s a barrier, then let’s address
Susan Silverman [12:18]
- Absolutely. And another key part is to develop that rapport and the trust. If the If somebody trusts you, they’re more likely to be candid and really share what’s going on. And then when you have that mutual trust and rapport, you can say, Hey, Joe, or Jane, sorry for the names, this is what you should do, and if I’m not someone who can help you, my friend can.
Steve Fretzin [12:39]
So, rapport is is something that some people do better than others. The way that we want to think about it is a learned skill, just like everything. Business development, networking, all learned skills. And one thing I was I have a class that meets Tuesday mornings. We were talking this morning about relationship building, and I did this today. I met with someone, I asked ChatGPT, I gave them the name, gave them the information, had them scour the internet, and it said this person likes to travel, this person’s all about life balance, this person’s all about these things. And it very easily not no manipulation, like, I’m into that too. So I was like, Hey, can we talk about travel? Can we talk about life balance? I don’t work Fridays, and we got into this great conversation about it, and how lawyers need it and they don’t have it, and we do, and how lovely that is for us. But it made the trust and the likeability just happen so naturally, which led everything else after that conversation was was just flowing.
Susan Silverman [13:36]
Absolutely.
Steve Fretzin [13:38]
Yeah. Is there something that you would also like add to how you develop stronger relationships, something that lawyers can hear and go, Yeah, I want to try that, or, That sounds pretty good?
Susan Silverman [13:47]
When I’m meeting with a client, the first thing I try to do is become vulnerable. When when they see that you are not putting on any airs, and that, you know, I have, you know, concerns and anxiety as well, it really brings people in and builds that rapport right away.
Steve Fretzin [14:05]
Yeah. I start every Zoom where where they see me and catch me picking my nose. Immediately breaks the ice. I go, Oh, sorry about that. It was a scratch, not a pick. Any Seinfeld fans out there, you know what I’m talking about. No, I don’t do that, but that would be that would be one way to go to be vulnerable.
Susan Silverman [14:20]
I might try that one day, too.
Steve Fretzin [14:21]
All right, all right. Well, that’s we’ll call that a work in progress. Hey everybody, your next big client might call at 8:00 p.m. on a Saturday night. The question is, who’s picking up? With Lex Reception, a real person answers every call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, so you never miss a lead, no matter when they reach out. No AI agents, no voicemail, just professional, legal-literate receptionists representing your firm the right way around the clock. And right now, Be That Lawyer listeners get 250 off their first month. Visit www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer to claim your offer. That’s www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer. Hey everybody, Steve Fretzin here, and at Lawyer.com, they don’t just market law firms, they help them grow. From connecting millions of consumers to trusted lawyers, to smarter intake and industry-leading events, they’re building stronger connections across legal. Visibility, intake, events, growth, that’s Lawyer.com. Check them out today. With proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm, Rankings.io prides itself on proof, not promises mentality. The best firms hire Rankings.io when they want rankings, traffic, and cases other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver. Get more rankings, get cases, and schedule a free consultation at Rankings.io today. So lawyers need to get a plan put together. They need to go out there and develop some relationships. They need to find what their sort of jam is, right? So is that posting on LinkedIn? Is that creating content? If so, what is that? Is it going out and networking in conferences? Is it one-on-ones? Like let’s say that they figure it out and that they realize, you know, networking is the way to go. What are some things that you recommend they do when networking that help them get results? Because they might feel like they’re out there for like years just meeting people, but when in fact they need to bring some business in the door. Well, that
Susan Silverman [16:30]
puts a lot of pressure on them. If their goal is just to bring business in the door, that’s probably going to be an impediment to building that relationship and getting business.
Steve Fretzin [16:37]
Okay.
Susan Silverman [16:38]
It takes years, literally, to develop the relationship for someone to get business in the door, because you’re building that relationship and it’s a matter of timing. Maybe, you know, they don’t need that attorney that day, or that month, or that year, and you want to have that that depth of the relationship.
Steve Fretzin [16:55]
Yeah, I would I would add that they’re I’m not saying there are shortcuts because relationships take time. However, you know, giving first, just as an example. Like I can meet with lots of people, but if I figure out a connection, if I figure out they need a realtor cuz they want to move from the city to the burbs, or I figure out that their kid is going to school where my kid’s going and I can have them walk them around, anything you can do that adds value to people in a relationship, I think sort of accelerates the the maybe the long-termness of it. And also, I think, you know, qualifying. So let me just say this: like lawyers regularly say, Well, any lawyer can refer me, or any I do this, anybody can refer me, and that may be true, okay? But there are people that are in the same room as other people more likely than others. So, for example, if you’re looking to meet GCs, then there are other professionals that are meeting with GCs, too, in a different capacity and maybe spending more time with them than someone that is doing personal injury on the, you know, with the billboard.
Susan Silverman [17:55]
Right. Right.
Steve Fretzin [17:56]
Yeah. So it ultimately, you know, we’re looking for the fastest way to get there with the least amount of effort, the greatest results, knowing that it’s not going to happen overnight. What are one or two other things that you that you work with on your clients every day that help them achieve and get results, you know, to in growing their books?
Susan Silverman [18:14]
Well, I start in the beginning with, as we discussed, building the relationship and the rapport. And I want to understand what their goal is, and if their goal is to build a book of business, let’s start small. I want to set them up for success, and we could start developing an action plan. And through the relationship, I hold them accountable so that they achieve their goal, and it’s not going to happen overnight. I mean, for example, if they want to land that million-dollar client, it’s very unlikely, and as a third-year associate, that you’re going to do that. And let’s develop a plan so you can get there one day, and let’s start smaller.
Steve Fretzin [18:49]
Right. Yeah. I think, yeah, I mean, there there are opportunities to sometimes, you know, pop something big, but it’s, you know, it’s more likely that you’re going to find, you know, smaller matters that you can bring in as a way of getting started. I’m working with a Big Law partner right now. He just went from associate to partner, and he’s looking to make equity. And yeah, he’s bringing in some small stuff, but sometimes going from, you know, 50,000 to 150,000 and on your way to 300,000, those that seems pretty exciting to an associate who really had never developed much business before. So what What are some other, you know, things that that that you’re seeing lawyers focusing energy on? Are you Like I’m talking more about branding now than ever before. Is that a part of what you’re seeing lawyers are kind of doing more of, personal branding?
Susan Silverman [19:34]
I’ve I’ve just seen it on LinkedIn, but a lot of attorneys that I’m familiar with really are not prioritizing being business savvy. They view it as the ugly part of developing their practice. They don’t want to, you know, they went to law school to be a lawyer. They want to do what they excel at, which is practicing law. They don’t want to do the marketing. They want their law firm to do it, you know. You fix, you know, please fix my profile for me, and and here I I wrote this up, publish it somewhere, do it multiple different ways, replatform, repurpose it. Let me do what I do best.
Steve Fretzin [20:08]
Yeah.
Susan Silverman [20:09]
It’s an inconvenience to them.
Steve Fretzin [20:11]
Right, right. And so let me ask you this, just kind of switching from business development to leadership a little bit, because a lot of lawyers are moving up now, right? They’re moving from that partner to the equity partner. Maybe they’re opening up their own shop and getting a partner, and now they’re now they’re leading a firm and building and scaling. What does it take to make the transition from being like an excellent attorney to becoming an effective leader? What does that look like?
Susan Silverman [20:32]
Well, the professional, the legal profession totally underestimates that transition. Individual success is how good is my work? When you’re being an effective leader, the question changes. And it has to do with what’s happening because of you. Can you develop others? Can you delegate? Can you give feedback? And can you influence others without the formal authority? Making partner is a title. It doesn’t make you an effective leadership. Leadership is a skill. It can be practiced, and it can be taught.
Steve Fretzin [21:02]
Yeah. So what are some things that lawyers need to learn about leadership that you would work with them on? Well, let’s give not some plugs for you, Susan, but, you know, in the form of like that’s something I don’t maybe spend enough time on, I mean, because I’m just so focused in the weeds on growing a book, but I mean many of the people I work with are managing partners and leaders. Yeah. What give a couple of of ideas of things that you that you you see and do every day.
Susan Silverman [21:24]
Okay, well let me let me backtrack for a second. I just mentioned that leadership is a skill, and that was the idea behind a leadership assessment that I developed. It’s called The Leadership Standing, and it’s an assessment I created to help attorneys build real leadership skills across five pillars: people, rainmakers, influence, multiply, and enterprise. And through that assessment, people get more introspection, and it will help them continue to develop those skills.
Steve Fretzin [21:53]
Yeah. So let’s break those down a little further. Give us the names again, and then what each of them does, and how what they can learn from each of those to get to the next level in a particular area.
Susan Silverman [22:04]
Sure. Well, the people, you know, get to know your people, communicate with them, and help them develop along the way. And that that includes the rapport that we’ve discussed, and the trust, and giving actionable feedback, etc.
Steve Fretzin [22:18]
Okay. I mean, ultimately, you know, business development, leadership, these are not only learned skills, but they’re skills that most lawyers, I think, just try to figure out on their own, right? They just muscle through it, when, in fact, you know, books, and coaches, and mentors, and consultants, and people that can help reduce the time that it takes to to become good at something, and or just give up. Like I, I’m a terrible manager. I’m a wonderful coach, terrible manager. And so I actually brought in a new CMO like a week ago, and part of it was, you know, hey, he’s not going to manage me. I mean, I’m not going to manage him, he’s going to manage me, and he’s going to manage our our marketing director, so I don’t have to. So I’m like I’m just basically hiring my way out of the things that I either don’t enjoy or that I don’t feel like I’m good at. And it isn’t like I haven’t tried to learn or whatever, I just don’t enjoy it. Like I don’t, you know, that’s not For some reason, there’s a disconnect between between managing and coaching. Coaching, you know, I can’t Maybe I need a you know, a head-shrinker to help me figure that out.
Susan Silverman [23:20]
No, but you’re you’re in a fortunate position that you can delegate. You don’t have to do it.
Steve Fretzin [23:24]
Right, right. Well, that is true, and I I think part of the problem, and I I’m not just saying I’m a nice guy because, you know, although I might maybe I am, is that I think I’m too nice and I’m not strict enough. So I’ve had people take advantage of me, where, you know, especially the VAs that are like all over the place, where, you know, they always act like they’re the busiest people in the world and they’re no one’s working harder, and if I break down like everything they’ve done, I’m like that’s like 15 hours a week, not 40. I’ll be out and understand that. So anyway, but I I and I just am loyal to people and I, you know, when I need to cut the cord, so. Eh, I don’t know. You know, listen, we’re all we’re all works in progress in one way or another.
Susan Silverman [24:03]
100%.
Steve Fretzin [24:04]
Yeah, yeah. So I think we’re kind of getting to the near the end. Now, we’re not I’ve got one important question for you that I’m saving up. Everyone knows what it is. But, any other final thoughts on the lawyer journey and like what lawyers need, if you could just wrap it up in a nice nice little bow, like the way lawyers minds have to change now compared to 10, 20 years ago when just doing the work was enough?
Susan Silverman [24:28]
Everything has changed, and the skills that lawyers need today was not taught in law school. Nobody taught you how to develop business and how to be a leader.
Steve Fretzin [24:37]
Yeah.
Susan Silverman [24:38]
And attorneys and people in general need to open their minds to those skills and learn them, practice them, and they can succeed. It’s not one answer for everybody. You have to find your own assets and strengths and pursue the path that way.
Steve Fretzin [24:54]
Yeah, and I would just add part of it is, since you didn’t learn it in law school and it is a learned skill, that you need to be a student of the game. So, listening to this podcast, reading books, going to webinars, like thinking about like what’s going to help you, you know, get ahead, and you know, like today I was I was at the DuPage County Bar, and I’m teaching them how to do an infomercial. And I said to the group, I go, Here’s how you write an infomercial. I broke it down into steps, and I said, If anybody wants to write it out and send it to me, I’ll review it, edit it, and get it back to you. Do you know how many I’m going to get?
Susan Silverman [25:27]
I would think a lot.
Steve Fretzin [25:28]
Zero. I will get zero back, okay? It’s execution is the beast. Be a student of the game, but you have to execute on the things that you’re learning. Otherwise, you’re just learning unnecessary tools. It’s like I could learn how to sew, but I’m never going to pick up a needle. It doesn’t make sense.
Susan Silverman [25:45]
Well, that’s it, that’s the accountability component of coaching that you and I provide, because we make sure that our clients set out and accomplish the goals that they
Steve Fretzin [25:55]
Yeah, that’s that’s very true. I’ve got a special pair of boots for some of my clients, and you know what I’m talking about, right? All right, Susan, it is that time. What is Susan’s big mistake?
Susan Silverman [26:05]
Well, I mentioned it to you earlier. My biggest mistake was leaving the practice of law without a plan. I did not have a career plan. While I was practicing commercial litigation, I gave birth to a severely premature child, and during maternity leave, I wondered if on my deathbed, I was going to regret not billing more hours or being there for my child. And at that time, I never regretted leaving the practice of law, and I never regretted making the choice to care for my child. What I regretted was not speaking with somebody who could give me perspective, who could make sure that I understood the options: either changing law firms, changing practice areas, teaching law school, taking a small career break, rather than just being very binary, I’m going to practice law, or I’m going to take early retirement. And that’s one of the reasons why I do what I do, so I can help attorneys through transitions and the speed bumps on their career path so they can see their options and get clarity.
Steve Fretzin [27:07]
Yeah. Well, really great.
Susan Silverman [27:09]
that’s why I do what I do.
Steve Fretzin [27:10]
Fantastic. All right. Well, that’s a great way to wrap things up. I appreciate that so much. Hey everybody, last chance, I’m telling you now, I’m not going to tell you too many more times that it’s PimCon. If you’re in personal injury and you’re not at PimCon, then you’re missing out. It is the best conference of the year if you’re personal injury. Of course, Rankings.io, one of our great partners, if you’re for SEO and AEO and all that stuff to help you bring in the leads. Of course, LEX Reception, don’t pick up your phone, LEX Reception will do it for you, and probably better. And of course, Lawyer.com, the top directory. I’m hoping to meet Colleen or see her in New York when I go to speak at the Solo & Small Firm Symposium on November 5th with New York City Bar, which I’m thrilled about. Susan, people want to talk to you. They want to learn more about you. They want to meet you. What are the best digits?
Susan Silverman [27:58]
They can find me at SusanBSilvermanConsulting.com. You can find me on LinkedIn, direct message me. You can contact me on the phone number that’s on my website, and I’d be delighted to help.
Steve Fretzin [28:10]
All right, so let’s let me ask you one final question, and we’ll wrap up. This was your first-ever podcast. It was here. It broke. The news broke on Be That Lawyer. How’d we do?
Susan Silverman [28:19]
Oh, you know what? You made it so effortlessly and comfortable. I got to tell you, which I said before we even started, I was really nervous. So,
Steve Fretzin [28:26]
yeah.
Susan Silverman [28:26]
I feel much better now. And thank you for making it easy.
Steve Fretzin [28:29]
Well, no one knew you were nervous until you blew it at the end and you told everybody. No, it’s you know, look, we all we everything is new. Business development for lawyers is new, podcasting is new, writing a book like everything’s new, but it’s we just get through it, right? We get through the other side. We realize now that you’ve done 30 minutes, you’re like, Oh, what was the big deal? Like we had a conversation. We did that before we hit record. So what’s the it’s not it’s not different, right?
Susan Silverman [28:54]
You made it easy.
Steve Fretzin [28:56]
Yeah. Well, all right, there’s that, too. It
Susan Silverman [28:57]
takes two to have
Steve Fretzin [28:59]
tell you, I’ve been on some podcasts where it wasn’t quite so easy, but but you know, but I’m thrilled that I was able to It’s all by the way, only downhill from here after you after this podcast for you.
Susan Silverman [29:10]
You You set the bar up high.
Steve Fretzin [29:11]
Right. The bar’s up here, and now you’re in trouble. But listen, you know, we had some fun, we helped some lawyers, and we made it all worthwhile for them to be that lawyer: confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Thank you, and thank you everybody for hanging out with us for the last 30. Susan, we’ll talk to you on the flip side, okay?
Susan Silverman [29:27]
Thank you for your time. Appreciate you.
Steve Fretzin [29:29]
You got it. You got it. All right, take care everybody. Build that book. Own your future. Be that lawyer. Talk to you soon. Thanks
Narrator [29:39]
for listening to Be That Lawyer: life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretzin.com, for additional information and to stay up-to-date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.