In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Tim Semelroth discuss:
- Scaling a law firm effectively while maintaining quality and culture
- The importance of consistent client engagement to foster trust and loyalty
- Leveraging specialization to establish authority and attract niche cases
- Using systems and processes to improve law firm management and branding
Key Takeaways:
- Building and maintaining a professional network early in one’s career avoids missed opportunities for referrals and growth.
- Specializing in a niche like truck accident cases and gaining certifications boosts credibility and competitive edge.
- Consistent outreach, like birthday cards, newsletters, and holiday greetings, keeps clients and referral sources engaged.
- Incentivizing handwritten thank-you notes fosters appreciation, strengthening relationships and driving loyalty and referrals.
“The reality is that most people are getting fewer than five birthday cards now, and so if you can be one of those people, they’re never going to forget you, no matter how big the billboard is that the 800-pound gorilla buys.” — Tim Semelroth
Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at [email protected] with your toughest question, and I’ll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!
Thank you to our Sponsors!
Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/
Rainmakers Roundtable: https://fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/
Episode References:
The Checklist Manifesto by Atul Gawande: https://www.amazon.com/Checklist-Manifesto-How-Things-Right/dp/0312430000
About Tim Semelroth: Tim Semelroth, a personal injury attorney with 25+ years of experience, has helped hundreds of Iowans affected by injury or death due to negligence. He is Iowa’s first board-certified trucking accident attorney by the NBTA and among the first 50 in the U.S. to earn this title. A former president of the Iowa chapter of the American Board of Trial Advocates and the Iowa Association for Justice, Tim also serves on the Iowa State Committee of the American College of Trial Lawyers. He is a faculty at the Trial Lawyers College and a Board of Regents member for the Academy of Truck Accident Attorneys.
Connect with Tim Semelroth:
Website: https://fightingforfairness.com/
Email: [email protected]
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsemelroth/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/rsh-legal/
Twitter: https://x.com/rshlegal
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RSHLegal
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rshlegal/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin: [00:00:00] Hey, everybody, before we get to the show, want to do a little Q and a, this one is coming from Don from Indianapolis, Indiana. And he asks Steve, I’m worried about the future of the country with the new administration. How should I begin preparing for this? Well, I certainly don’t want to get into a political discussion with you, Don.
I’m trying to stay agnostic here with regards to my views. But there are a lot of people that are very excited about it. There are a lot of people that are very worried about it. I think the best thing you can do is just sort of like idiot proof and, and, and protect your law firm. Your law practice have a plan, business development, client, deeper client relationships, thinking ahead to what the administration might do with the country as it relates to regulation, MNA, IP, whatever area you’re in.
Think about what the future might let be like under the new administration and start to really bend down the hatches in those areas. But I think keep your clients close and again, provide exceptional value for them. And and again, [00:01:00] you’ll probably land on your feet no matter what happens. Other than the grid going down or nuclear Holocaust.
So no fears, everybody I’m sure we’ll be fine. Thank you, Don. And everybody enjoy the show and we’ll talk soon.
Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, welcome back to Be That Lawyer with me. Fretzin podcast. I’m so happy that you’re here today. This is the show to learn all the things they never taught you in law school. And there’s quite a few, right, Tim?
Tim Semelroth: Oh, yes. 26 years trying to learn how to run a business. I
Steve Fretzin: get it. Sort of like they want to focus on the [00:02:00] substantial, you know, legal work, but I think there, and I think there’s some business stuff that’s going on there, but it’s minimal, I think at this point, but what should they be teaching in law school and that we’re jumping right into it, Tim, but.
What should they be teaching in law school?
Tim Semelroth: Oh, gosh. You know, where do you start? The reality is I was a philosophy major in undergrad. And so I didn’t even have the vocabulary to have a discussion with our bank when I got out of law school. And so I tell people, they say, what would you do differently?
It’s like, I love college. I wouldn’t, you know, I hesitate to say I would ever change a thing, but I wish I would have taken a business class class. Just to learn vocabulary, so I can have a discussion with. You know whether it’s your bank, your insurance company, your vendors.
Steve Fretzin: There should be some practical tools being shared and how to balance a checkbook might also be a good one for some of the younger folks.
I’ve just putting that out there. So Tim, welcome to the show. We’ve got a lot to cover today. I want to start off as I love to do with the quote of the show. [00:03:00] Now I’ve been a big Bob Berg fan for, I mean, I’m going back 20 years where he, I remember I went to one of his programs where he introduced himself to a bunch of people as they came in and then.
50 people, he rattled off their names and what order he met them in as they came in. It was a phenomenal parlor trick and very impressive. And then of course that gave him all the goods to then have our attention for the rest of the, of the presentation. But his quote is all things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to those people they know, like, and trust.
So welcome to the show. And then tell me a little bit about why you love that quote. Well,
Tim Semelroth: because encompasses both the challenge of. Being a trial lawyer, which is what I do and being a law firm owner who’s trying to get new clients. And there, you know, if you talk about regrets you know, you, one of my biggest regrets is I didn’t take the concept of your list seriously till [00:04:00] I had been practicing law for 10 years.
And so if you believe, you know first quote to be true, hopefully the people that you’ve worked with worked for. They know you, they like you and they trust you. And so why wouldn’t you start every marketing initiative reaching out to those people? Because that’s those you’ve already convinced them.
I mean, you can buy all of the television ads or billboards in the world, but you know, you’re starting from scratch with those people. But if you start with your list, you’re a much better chance of getting them to do business with you again.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I’ve had the good fortune of speaking at a number of law schools and I usually will say, Hey, look to your left and look to your right.
Not to tell them that, you know, one of these two aren’t going to be there by the time you graduate. That’s not the stick that I had. It was more about the person to your left is going to be the GC of a major corporation. The person to your right could be the CEO of XYZ could be someone that could refer you a ton [00:05:00] of business.
You just don’t know. So start building your list in undergrad. Start building your list in law school, the firms you work with, the companies you work in, For, because those, these are the people in five or 10 years that are going to be running stuff. So. That is so smart.
Tim Semelroth: And that’s what I, I joked that I would have sent out one of those Christmas cards, you know, where you list like what everybody’s up to with my friends from college and law school, because you’re, you’re absolutely right.
We did a study of where our cases come from for our personal injury firm in Iowa. That And then we looked at of each of those sources, what percentage of income comes from each of those sources. And so what we found out is that only 25 percent of our cases are referred from other lawyers. But in our firm, that makes up almost half of our income.
So those relationships that you’ve built with the lawyers who refer you cases [00:06:00] are absolutely worth the money.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah, no doubt. And everybody, you’re listening to a new friend of mine, Tim Summer Roth, who is the co managing partner of RSH Legal. We met at a networking event. As soon as I met you, I was like podcast, like it didn’t even like, it didn’t even take me a second to say.
This is a guy I need to get on the podcast. And when people hear your background and what you’re up to, they’ll understand right away why I got excited, but let’s go back in time. Let’s share a little bit about how you came to be in building the largest plaintiff personal injury, a firm in Iowa.
Tim Semelroth: Sure. So the short answer is. I didn’t know a lawyer growing up. My dad worked in a factory. My mom was a teacher, but I participated in this activity called mock trial, which is huge in Iowa. And that’s when I first started meeting lawyers. So I knew when I was in middle school, high school, college, that I wanted to be a trial lawyer.
So that was my full [00:07:00] focus for a federal judge. After law school, I started with a plaintiff’s personal injury firm. And so I knew that’s what I wanted to do. I knew that I wanted to be a trial lawyer. I had no idea that I also needed to learn how to run a business. And so that’s what I’ve been playing catch up ever since.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah. You came to the right show not only to get ideas from other professionals, but also to share what you’ve learned, because my guess is in 26 years, you’ve made a share, your share of mistakes and you know, and that you’ve had some, let me ask you this. What was the biggest. Mistake that you made.
in developing and growing your own law practice. That’s a good place to start.
Tim Semelroth: Well, we’ve touched on a little bit, which is that I didn’t start maintaining my list and actively cultivating my relationships with other lawyers until I’d been in practice for 10 years.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah.
Tim Semelroth: So that would be my biggest regret, but other than that, it’s fear, right?
[00:08:00] Because So much of what we do in the personal injury world is, you know, identify risk and, you know, we’re obviously suing people who are not taking risks seriously. And so it’s very easy to take that mindset into how you run your firm. And that’s problem because it’s a cliche because it’s true. You have to spend money to make money.
And if you’re not growing, you’re dying. And so the, that those are things that it took a lot of fear fear held us back from making money. Big invests in, in our practice Intel, we’ve got our mindset. And then once we did, you know, it’s been growth.
Steve Fretzin: And did you start out as a very niche practice or did you work your way to that point?
Tim Semelroth: Absolutely. So I started out, I got hired by two lawyers. They were best known as a medical malpractice boutique firm. And so that’s what we did. We also would [00:09:00] handle the occasional personal injury case, but one of those partners went on to become a judge. The other partner you know, for the first time when that one of the founders left kind of said, okay, instead of us handing you, you work, you know, you need to start participating in getting it.
And I learned from you know, one of my mentors that, you know, the most dangerous number in business is one, you know, being good at one type of case you know, have one source of clients. And so the epiphany for me was because we were getting most of our cases and most of our money from plaintiffs, medical malpractice cases, and then you saw a tort reform occurring in Iowa, I started to realize it’s like, wait a second, you know, the financial health of our firm.
might be decided in Des Moines at the legislature. We need to be good at more than one type of case. We need to be good at, you know, in more than one area of the [00:10:00] law. And once we did that, I could sleep a lot better.
Steve Fretzin: Okay. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And, you know, again, everybody sort of hits that epiphany or they don’t that, Hey, look, I’m a great lawyer.
I’ve handled a lot of cases. I’ve tried a lot of cases. I’ve built a level of competence and expertise, but I’ve never really done the business development side. Right. And obviously that’s where I come in and I work with lawyers all over the world that are looking to get those skills and hone them. But that didn’t really exist years ago.
It wasn’t like a big thing where there was a lot of coaches running around. But when I started, there was maybe a handful of others. I’m assuming hundreds, but ultimately lawyers still need to make some decision at some point in their career. Am I going to bring in the business or am I just going to rely on others?
What’s your case for bringing in the business?
Tim Semelroth: So what I teach law students is that great cases, Make great lawyers and so you can be the most [00:11:00] technically proficient trial lawyer, you know, you can do great things, but you’re never going to get a chance to show that or reap the rewards from that if you don’t have good case.
And so I never wanted to leave that chance. And so once I realized that there were things that I could do that would attract good cases immediately, that became a priority.
Steve Fretzin: Again, I know that lawyers are completely overwhelmed these days. And so the idea that, Hey, on top of all this work and all these hours, you need to go out and develop business is scary.
My argument would be you could go out and develop business and do it without any plans or process or systems and go and just invest time aimlessly. Or you could do it with structure, planning, process, coaching, accountability. But that’s not for everybody. And I don’t claim that it is, but I think people need to at least consider that it might make sense to start becoming a student of the game, listening to this podcast, reading books.
YouTube [00:12:00] has got unlimited number of videos, not only on my channel, but others that I think would be beneficial. So what are some of the things that you talk about with law students also about their careers and where they want to go and where they should, how they should be thinking about their career?
Tim Semelroth: One of the things that I always talk to them about is the importance of maintaining your brand, like you need to decide what you want your brand to be as a lawyer. Are you the get it done person? Are you the person who’s the legal scholar that other lawyers go to for tough legal questions? Are you the, you know, the trial lawyer who isn’t afraid to you know, take a case into a courtroom?
You know, The sooner that you can identify what you want your brand to be, the sooner you can start taking affirmative steps to make sure that everybody else understands your brand.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I think there’s something to be said. If you’re not creating your brand, then other people [00:13:00] will. And I don’t know that I necessarily want other people messing with my name and my brand.
What are some things that you and your firm do to become and stay on top of Being well recognized as the leader in Iowa.
Tim Semelroth: Well, I’ll give you personally. So we, our firm, we’re the largest personal injury firm in Iowa. We have 17 lawyers over the course of three different cities. Personally, my practice now in 2024 is I almost exclusively do truck accident cases.
So I’ve done a couple of things to try to make sure that I’m doing that at the highest level. One is I went to truck driving school for lawyers in Montana. I’ve driven an 18 wheeler. You know, I’ve put up the you know, timed how long it takes to put the the, the triangles up. You know, if you pull your 18 wheeler off on the side of the road.
I also did something that I thought I would never do because I’m one of those [00:14:00] guys who had nightmares about the bar exam for like 15 years after I passed, right? And so, but for some reason, I decided 5 years ago that I was going to get board certified in truck accident law, which required You know, I hadn’t taken a test that long you know, since I had taken the BART, but what you realize when you see people doing this at the highest level around the United States is they are students of, you know, of every aspect of trying truck exercises, whether it’s being familiar with Mechanical side of things or regulations that apply to the trucking industry or just masterminding with other lawyers who do truck accident cases around the country.
And so I was one of the the first 50 lawyers in the United States to get board certified in truck accident law. And. What I found is that it makes not only does it mean that I can do a [00:15:00] better job for my clients, but is also a great marketing tool because any lawyers who know anything about truck accident cases, no, Hey, if we’ve got a case that involves Iowa, you know, they can look me up and say, well, then we should be talking to Tim.
Steve Fretzin: And I think there’s one, there’s a couple of points I want to just pick out of that. One is, you know, the experience of going through that and knowing everything about how trucks work and the roads, and to give you that backend knowledge that you may never have had, had you not been through that, but on a branding side, to be able to let your either clients know, or to market it, or to leverage it, the fact that either you’re board certified or the idea that you’ve gone through more than any other.
you know, lawyer in your state to get that experience and why you’re better equipped to handle their case than maybe someone else.
Tim Semelroth: And I heard that from At a mediation just a couple weeks ago, one of my clients, you know, saying it across the conference table, and he said, you know why I called him, right?
And I said, no. And he’s like, [00:16:00] well, I, you know, I was involved in this truck crash. And so I went online and I saw that you teach other lawyers how to do truck accident cases that you’re board certified. So I figured, you know, you’re the guy for me.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah, that’s and I love the idea too of the specialization that it’s not that you can’t take on car crashes or that you can’t take on other types of accidents, but you want to become known for something unique in something also where you know there’s a lot of action.
It’s not like there’s no truck accidents. There are truck accidents every single day. And so, but then it’s like, you know, you’re known for something even more specific that you’re like a niche of a niche of a niche in some ways. Yeah.
Tim Semelroth: Absolutely. Yeah. And what the what’s the saying that and this is if you’re pronounced it differently and the niches are in the riches.
Steve Fretzin: And if you say niche, it doesn’t work. The reaches are in the niches. Now it blows up the whole idea. So you gotta decide if you’re a niche person or a niche person before you go ahead with that. With proven SEO and digital [00:17:00] marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm, rankings. io prides itself on proof, not promises mentality.
The best firms hire rankings. io when they want rankings traffic in cases other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver Get more rankings get cases and schedule a free consultation at rankings. io today Hey everybody steve Fretzin here, man. I thought I was a good marketer, but maybe not lawyers have been a problem What’s the Rainmakers Roundtable?
Well, I tell them this is a special place created exclusively for rainmaking lawyers to continue their journey of prosperity. Our program is unique as every member has a significant book of business and is motivated to grow it year after year. Where else does this exist? If you’re a managing partner who’s looking to get off your lonely island and talk shop, With America’s top rate makers, please go to my website, Fretzin.
com and apply for membership today. I guess one thing I wanted to know about was you’re doing well in a marketplace. [00:18:00] Let’s just say, you know, it’s just, it’s a five or 10 person law firm in a marketplace. And then there’s an 800 pound gorilla who comes into the market that was never in the market before.
Is that something you can talk to and sort of share like what maybe someone should do in that instance?
Tim Semelroth: Absolutely. And you, I mean, this is why you’re good at running this podcast because you’re bringing us right back to what we talked about at the beginning, you know, an 800 pound gorilla can come in and they can buy TV ads.
They can be on radio, they can be on every billboard, you know, corner in your state, but they can’t compete with the people who know, like, and trust you. And so. Where you need to be investing your money is making sure that those relationships are so strong that it doesn’t matter if somebody is on TV, because this person is going to say, Hey, I know Tim, or, you know, I know Tim’s firm, they did good work for my neighbor.
They did good work for the, you know, the lady at [00:19:00] church. So that’s who I’m going to go to.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Well, I don’t think anybody can argue that word of mouth and client satisfaction and having the brand in the marketplace. on the ground level will always beat out flashy billboards and TV ads and things like that.
Have you done any of that stuff? Have you shied away?
Tim Semelroth: Yeah, there are only 3 million people in the state of Iowa. We do everything, but here’s where we’re best because we don’t leave word of mouth to chance. We have everybody who we have their birthday, they get a card from us in the mail on their birthday.
They get two e newsletters a month from us, they get one print newsletter a month from us, they get a custom holiday card from us. I mean, we are constant. Visitors to their physical mailbox, and they are going to stay on our lists until they call us and tell us they don’t want to do it.[00:20:00]
And because that’s important. And the, my, the people in my firm get tired of this, but. I can tell you the guy who sold my parents insurance when I was in high school and, you know, and that’s over 40 years ago, but the reason why I can, it’s because he sent me a birthday card every year. And he was one of only five people.
And the reality is, is that most people are getting less than five birthday cards now. And so if you can be one of those people, they’re never going to forget you no matter how big the billboard is that the 800 pound gorilla buys.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah. It’s really amazing how few, I don’t care about birthday cards so much, but I care more about like a thank you card.
So like one of my clients hits their numbers and they’re now hitting like a million plus I’m not saying they should send me a thank you card. I mean, I mean, I, and I should send them a thank you card for doing business with me, but I guess it’s just like a dying art. Like people aren’t doing that in any kind of real opacity like they used to, but maybe that makes it even more special when someone gets something.
Can I [00:21:00] tell you how we’ve systematized
Tim Semelroth: that? I would love that. Yeah. So we call it operation. Thank you. Every person in our office has special RSH legal stationary at their desk. And whenever anybody does any, it can be a client, it can be a vendor, it can be opposing counsel. It can be the lady at the doctor’s office who helped you book an appointment for the lawyer to talk to the doctor.
If they send out a handwritten thank you card at the end of every month, everybody who sends out one of those cards, there’s a drawing for a gift certificate, and that’s done in Peter Rapids. Then if you did it every month of the year, there’s a specific bonus that you receive your thank you bonus for sending out thank you cards.
And so what’s happened is, is that I’ve walked into offices where I’ve seen one of our cards that one of our staff. [00:22:00] wrote out pinned to somebody’s wall and it’s because exactly what you said and that is that it’s a lost start. People don’t get handwritten cue cards anymore. And so if you incentivize it, if you put a system in place, You’d be amazed what your team can do.
Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I mean, that’s worth, I mean, everything you’ve shared in this episode has been amazing. And that one particular point resonated with me maybe as much or more than anything, just, you know, we’re not doing a good enough job saying, thank you. We’re not doing a good enough job of communicating in different ways.
I can say thanks for someone commenting on a post on my social media. I can send them an email. Those are easy things to do to write from, and my handwriting is trash. So like for me to write handwritten, I mean, I might have to rewrite it three times, Tim, just to get through one or get like a little, what’s it called?
Those dry erase things to try to salvage something that I I’m halfway through. So. But I can tell you that when I get when I send a handwritten letter or when I get a handwritten letter, it’s just really meaningful. [00:23:00] And I think that’s something that people need to bring back.
Tim Semelroth: Absolutely.
Steve Fretzin: Great stuff.
All right. So final question and advice for lawyers that are looking to grow their law practice. And get to the point where they can scale or maybe they’ve already started scaling and they want to, what is like your, like the list aside, like what’s something else that you would say you’re at the point where you’re ready to grow, you’ve already done some good stuff, like what else would you advise?
Tim Semelroth: You have to make sure that you invest in the infrastructure that is going to allow you to scale. So maybe that’s a. Phone system that you know, works well in multiple locations. Maybe it is a case management system that you know, is in the cloud. You know, maybe it is you know, just having a system that allows you to easily do e signing documents or a making sure everybody in your office is comfortable and has the right tools to do video conferencing.
You have to have [00:24:00] those things in place if you want to scale, but yet maintain quality and also maintain your culture.
Steve Fretzin: Really great. Really great. Let’s wrap up Tim with our is a game changing book, I’m assuming the checklist manifesto.
Tim Semelroth: Yes.
Steve Fretzin: All right. Fantastic. Tell us a little bit about that.
Tim Semelroth: So the checklist manifestos, it’s, it’s probably about a 15 year old book.
It was written by a surgeon, Atul Gawande. And it talks about the fact that. Most activities now in the modern world are so complicated that you can’t keep the proper way to do it completely in your head. You know everything now that where it’s really important to get it right involves a checklist.
You know, whether it’s a surgical checklist that anesthesiologists use. Whether it is a, a, you know, the, the metaphor could be broader than that, you know, it could be the, the blueprints that an architect, [00:25:00] this was a game changer for me because before I read this book, so many of our procedures in our office were in our team’s heads.
And so the ability to sit down and and, you know, now they’re called standard operating procedures and you can use chat GPT to help, you know, write them for you. But 15 years ago, when I read this book, it was a game changer for me. And on top of all the practical things. Atul Gawande is a gifted writer, it is a fun read, and you will find out why Van Halen did not allow green M& Ms.
In, in their in their dressing room.
Steve Fretzin: That’s a, yeah, that’s a great story. I love that one. So you’ll have to check that out. If, if you don’t know that story, you’ll have to look it up. I will add the importance of checklists. I was in a plane crash in 1996, and I can tell you that the pilot did not do a checklist because we were in a lane crash.
So there’s that [00:26:00] good would have been a good case for you anyway. So Tim, thanks so much. If people want to get in touch with you, what’s the best way for them to reach you, to find you? They want to connect with you for accidents that are happening in Iowa.
Tim Semelroth: Yeah, so I love LinkedIn. I regularly post on LinkedIn on case management issues, law firm management issues things that I think are, are interesting to other lawyers.
So if you are a lawyer and you want to connect with me on LinkedIn, I’m the only Tim Summelroth there. And then obviously if anybody needs any legal help in Iowa, if my firm can’t do it, I know the person who can, we’re not that big a state. So you’ve all got a guy in Iowa that you can call if you need anything.
Steve Fretzin: There we go. Beautiful. Beautiful. And I’ll of course want to take a moment to just thank our wonderful sponsors Rankings IO and LawHer podcast. I also just want to mention, if you are enjoying the show and you’re a regular listener, please give us a kind review on Apple, Apple reviews, and give us a little thumbs up, five star review, whatever you got there and tell other [00:27:00] lawyers about it.
We’re continuing to try to draw, you know, draw out, you know, and help as many lawyers as we can in Iowa and other States. Thank you so much, Tim. Again, like I said, from the middle that, you know, as soon as I met you, I was like, this is someone I need to get on the show. You’re just an incredible performer and, and, and player in the space.
So I just appreciate you. Coming on and sharing your wisdom, my lawyer peeps.
Tim Semelroth: Well, it was a real pleasure and we will find a way to cross paths in person. So, well,
Steve Fretzin: we will, because this podcast is going to become a blog cast. And so not only will be promoting the podcast, but for those who like to read versus listen, we also will have the blog cast of this interview coming out in the next few months.
So you could check that out. Thanks again, Tim. I, I so appreciate you, man.
Tim Semelroth: Perfect. Have
Steve Fretzin: a good one. Thank you. And thank you everybody for spending time with me and Tim on the Be That Lawyer with Fretzin podcast, helping you to be that lawyer, confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Take care, everybody.
Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.[00:28:00]
Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, Fretzin. com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business developments. Development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode check out today’s show notes