Tracy Coenen: Becoming a Trusted Connector

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Tracy Coenen discuss:

  • How Tracy got into forensic accounting and how it can help in your law field.
  • Being a valuable connector.
  • Time blocking and being strategic with your networking, referral sources, and other business development.
  • The importance of touch points with your clients.

Key Takeaways:

  • If you have an extensive network of professionals, it will help you look like a hero to your clients as you can direct them to additional resources that can help solve their problems.
  • By making good, solid connections for your clients, you will help to build forever loyalty and rapport, which can lead to additional work from that client or referrals.
  • Do you know what your clients are currently looking for? Make a list – do you have people that already fit that criterion?
  • You don’t have to treat all your connections equally. Be consistent, do what works for you, and stay top of mind with those most important.

“I like being thought of as a connector, a trusted person, for my clients, for their clients, for my friends and family, and people will call me and say, ‘I have this problem, and I knew that you would know someone who can help me.’” —  Tracy Coenen

Episode References:

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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.



Tracy Coenen, Steve Fretzin, MoneyPenny, Narrator, Jordan Ostroff, Practice Panther


Tracy Coenen  [00:00]

I like being thought of as a connector, a trusted person, for my clients, for their clients, for my friends and family, where people will call me and say, I have this problem, and I knew that you would know someone who can help me.


Narrator  [00:22]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer Coach Steve Ritson will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time, greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Brinson.


Steve Fretzin  [00:45]

Hey everybody, how’s it going? Steve Preston V. That lawyer, I hope you’re having a lovely day. Today. We are well past our 250th episode. And if you’re just picking this up, now, you got a lot of podcasts to listen to, let’s say around 250, you want to check out a really fun one, go back to 200 Check out my father, Larry, the lawyer who’s 80 years old and retired down in Marco Island, soaking up the sun, you know, schmoozing around and talking about his career making whatever was like $50 A week or $10 a day or something he was making back in the day. But as you guys know, this show is all about helping you be that lawyer and helping you build your skills and just become a stronger better player in the space live the better life. And hopefully, that’s what this show is doing for you. If not enough, then there are books on Amazon I’ve written for how you can just type in Steve frets and or obviously, you can just talk with me directly. And we’ll have a 30 minute consulting session just to figure out where your gaps are, identify where there may be opportunities for growth. And if I’m a fifth grade, if I’m not, I will be a resource for you. As I’ve been so far up, get all that Tracy?


Tracy Coenen  [01:49]

We got it. Here. It was succinct. It’s what we need to know.


Steve Fretzin  [01:54]

Is my Yakety Yuck, Tracy, so good to see you. You are just one of the most fun people I know from our providers network. I think before that, too.


Tracy Coenen  [02:04]

I don’t know we didn’t know each other before providers. That was it. That was right. Yeah, I knew coming in. I’d heard of you and I knew that you were the bomb. And so soon as I got improvisers I made sure to meet you. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [02:17]

Said, Hey, here’s this guy, Steve Preston. I better better check him out what he’s doing. Tracy, before we get into your full intro, you gave a quote that I absolutely love. And I’ve used it for years and, and fried a different way than maybe you’ve used it. But I want to just share Trust, but verify. And I don’t know who said is that something where we know someone said that? Or just like a common common quote?


Tracy Coenen  [02:39]

Someone did say it, but you’re putting me on the spot. So I won’t be able to tell you who


Steve Fretzin  [02:43]

just say you did? No, no, you’re not going to do that you get in trouble.


Tracy Coenen  [02:47]

Oh, gosh, no. probably goes back. Right. Investigator? I can’t be back on why?


Steve Fretzin  [02:52]

No fraud on your ad. Okay, that’s fair. But why? So there’s 1000 quotes you could have chosen and you somehow chose that one? Is that is that based on your profession? Or just yeah, there are other reasons. Okay. It is?


Tracy Coenen  [03:02]

Yeah, definitely based on the profession. Everything that I do in my daily work is all about verifying numbers. So it felt appropriate. Okay.


Steve Fretzin  [03:12]

I use it a little differently when I teach lawyers sales, free selling, and that is, you know, when someone says like, you know, they’re the decision maker, it’s their decision. I always say Trust, but verify and always ask a second question. So like, just to share a good backup question when someone says, yeah, it’s, this is my decision to make, I’d say we’ll take if you wouldn’t mind, just take me through the process of how you make that decision. What’s involved in that? And then generally, they’ll say, Oh, well, I got to talk to my spouse or my firm or my this or that. Okay. So you’re really you are the decision maker, sort of, and so that’s that trust, I trusted them that they were being honest with me, but I verified your by asking a second question. So that’s just my little stick there about about trust and verify but Tracy Cohn in forensic accounting at sequence, Inc, and also the author of the divorce money guide, talk to us, tell us what’s going on with you. Tell us what, you know how you got your start in this because you’ve got a really interesting kind of niche.


Tracy Coenen  [04:09]

I do have an interesting niche. I’ve been doing forensic accounting for over 25 years. And it all started back in college when I was in a criminology program, and I aspired to become a prison warden someday.


Steve Fretzin  [04:26]

In My Zone, I’ve never heard that before. Okay, what was different? Okay? You just I actually went to school with someone who became a prison warden was a kid who got bullied like everyday in school for being overweight. And I mean, I can tell you some stories that would blow your mind. But he had became a prison warden feeling he’s probably taken out some of that childhood anger and angst on the prisoners anyway. That’s really bizarre. So what was the what why do you think about doing that?


Tracy Coenen  [04:53]

I have always been fascinated with prisons prison life, the concept of prisons. Is it for rehabilitation? Is it for punishment? Is it for the protection of society? How could we make it better? How could we have it benefit the people who are behind bars as well as benefit the people outside? such complex issues? And that’s what I really enjoy that intersection of social issues, societies that are created behind bars, and then the problem solving to go along with it. How do we make that better? And so it’s a really long explanation. Oh, it’s really interesting to have some insight into what interested me about it. But my sophomore year, I took an elective in the criminology program that was only offered once every three or four years, and it was called financial crime investigation. And I loved it. And the rest is history.


Steve Fretzin  [05:50]

That was sounds like your be that lawyer tipping point to like, where you decided, like at that moment to go into your, into your chosen field?


Tracy Coenen  [05:57]

I did I started taking accounting courses. Okay, let me take one accounting class and see if I’m any good at this. And I was. So I just, you know, from that point forward, you know, tailored my accounting career or my college courses, to meet what I needed to be able to sit for the CPA exam, et cetera. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [06:18]

And I was the opposite. I was horrible at math. And I immediately got out I was a business administration major that did not take at all because I couldn’t get through the basic level math. I just, it was not how I mean, it said thing is like, I’d hire I get a tutor to help me. I would like he’d be like, you know, this, and then I get into test and I was like, forget everything. I had no idea what was going on. So it was not in my DNA to do that. I’m more of a creative type, I guess. But very cool. So then and then. So you’re in your own business now. 25 years? And kind of like, what do you do? Like, what’s your? What do you do every day?


Tracy Coenen  [06:56]

I work on fraud investigations. About a third of that is in the corporate realm where executives are stealing. About a third of it is high net worth divorce cases, wealthy people who are concerned about what has been happening with the money, where’s the money? How much is there has any been siphoned off. And then a third of the work is other money shenanigans. It might be companies fighting over contracts gone bad, and how much money was lost because of it might be brother and sister fighting over mom and dad’s money, all sorts of just any other money shenanigans that you can think of. Now. So my process in doing these investigations, my daily work is I’m talking with attorneys, because all my work comes from attorneys. And they’re coming to me and saying, We have this court case, or we have the situation, this organization thinks there may have been fraud, we’re looking for a forensic accountant. And I am coming up with a case plan for them to get to the bottom of what they’re working on. I do it a little different than other forensic accountants, because I use fixed fees only I do not use any hourly fee structures. And so I spend most of my day investigating and writing reports. But I also spend a fair amount of time doing business development and the behind the scenes administration of the practice.


Steve Fretzin  [08:19]

Yeah. And part of that, I think, for you and I, because we both work with lawyers, right? That’s like who we’re talking to most of the time. And they need us for more than one reason. But I think it’s important for them to have sophisticated partners in their corner resources in their corner. It because when they have a situation, they need to have someone they can rely on that can solve it. So what I wanted to ask you is really why is it important as a lawyer then to have like an extensive network of provide this was a long way to get there? Why do they need to have like, extensive network of professionals in their corner? How does that why is it so important to a lawyer? Well, it


Tracy Coenen  [08:57]

certainly makes them look like a hero to their clients. Right? As you were talking about, you know, attorneys, knowing us and working with us, I was thinking about, I provide a lot of value to the attorneys I work with when I work on their case. But sometimes I can provide even more value to them by saying I’m actually not the right person for your case. Or in addition to me, you need an expert who can talk about this, or have you ever thought about going to this other expert. So I’m, you know, trying to bring a lot of value that goes beyond just me doing some work and receiving a fee for it.


Steve Fretzin  [09:36]

Yeah, so I think there’s a difference to between being a lawyer and being sort of a go to person or like almost like a counselor, where you’re not just helping people with a matter. You’re actually helping them with their business. You’re helping them with their life because you have all these resources sort of at your disposal. And I think lawyers sometimes miss the idea that building that network could really benefit but not only them and how they get referred, but also how they’re able to add value for their clients.


Tracy Coenen  [10:05]

I like being thought of as a connector, a trusted person, for my clients, for their clients, or my friends and family, where people will call me and say, I have this problem. And I knew that you would know someone who can help me. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [10:24]

Well, I got an email from a client of mine who is going on, he’s leaving his firm going out on his own, no spoilers, they’d have it in yet. But he needs insurance, multiple types of insurance, he needs a location, he needs web, he needs all these things. And that email that came in to me and said, Hey, Steve, I know, you know, you know, you’re the guy in the legal that knows all these people. And I have to like, it’s actually taking me a good amount of time to get through the email to like, help him with all these things. But I mean, how wonderful is that, for me to be able to help him and also to then feed the business to the people that I know, are the recognized leaders in those various spaces. So I’m feeling really good about how I’m making those connections, adding value for him and for the resources. But that’s, I think lawyers sometimes don’t take advantage of that opportunity to build that network of resources. It is


Tracy Coenen  [11:19]

a loyalty builder as well, that client of yours is never going to forget all those connections you helped him make when he started his firm. So not only is he going to remain a loyal client to you, he most likely will also tell his lawyer friends, Hey, Steve knows all the people Steve did this thing for me, you should work with Steve it, it just I think Steve knowing you, you’re helping him because you’re able to and because you want to. But you’re also aware that there is a long term benefit in it. And and that certainly is a wonderful byproduct of helping people.


Steve Fretzin  [11:57]

Yeah, and the next question that you know, people are probably thinking about as we talk this through is Alright, that sounds wonderful. Tracy and Steve, how the hell do I do that? I’m busy bill of billing hours, I’ve got a family, I’ve got, you know, limited time. And you’re saying hey, go out and you know, meet all these people and develop this, these these lists of resources. So how did you do it, I’ll certainly happy to share how I’ve done it and what maybe what busy lawyers need to do to to build that same type of list.


Tracy Coenen  [12:24]

To me, it was really about scheduling. And having a routine and a calendar, and really protecting my time, I set aside a certain amount of time per week, a certain number of hours that I’m going to devote to business development activities, and I actually booked that time on my calendar in advance so that that time is protected. Because there isn’t another way as a solo practitioner for 23 years, there’s so much to do. And it’d be really easy to say, yeah, yeah, I’ll get to the business development piece. For me, it certainly has taken hours upon hours, if you look at over the years to develop my network to develop my referral sources to have these trusted partners that I refer people to. But it has been by making that consistent effort three to five hours a week on a weekly basis for years. That is Scott, me here.


Steve Fretzin  [13:21]

Yeah, I think you’re consistent effort. But also, I think, with intelligence, in the sense of a look, there are 1000s of people I can connect with in the legal tech space in the legal marketing space, and cetera, et cetera. However, you know, I have a limited amount of time. So, you know, I just want to kind of talk like, first of all, what do my clients need, they don’t need everything, they need maybe four to six things regularly, right? Insurance is one of them, it is another marketing is another so I know the general, you know, bag of what needs to go in that bag of things that my clients need. And there are some random weird things, some software that they might need, but that’s not really a regular thing. That’s almost more like extra icing on the cake. So I just need to make sure that I make a list and for the lawyers listening, I’d say that would be a great place to start is like what are your clients currently asking for? Do you have those resources, and if not, you know, make a list of those professions or the people you know, in those spaces, and that’s a great place to start. And then if you’re not able to do that or not just that’s not enough, then it might be that you have to actually go out and network, right or leverage LinkedIn or things like that.


Tracy Coenen  [14:30]

It’s also about being very strategic. If I said to you go hang out at Chamber of Commerce meetings every week, that most likely be a complete waste of your time. The events that you Steve would want to be a part of would be heavily attended by attorneys. That’s what would make sense for you. So it’s not just, you know, blocking off time and saying I’m going to do a thing. You also have to be strategic about what that thing is. Yeah.


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Steve Fretzin  [16:27]

And the other thing that we want to consider in developing these these referral sources is also if you can make it a quid pro quo where you can meet someone that you can refer and feel really good about but also has the ability and capacity and interest in referring you back. That’s the Promised Land, right? So there are there are meetings that have to happen. There’s relationships that have to be built, there’s questions that have to be asked, in order to identify that that exists. And when you can find one of those. It’s even like there are people I can send people to they’re never going to refer me but I know they’re going to a good place. But wouldn’t I prefer to have them go to a good place and know that I can get that reciprocation to


Tracy Coenen  [17:07]

make totally agree with you. It’s always been interesting for me, I network with attorneys, because that’s where my business comes from. But in terms of having reciprocating referrals, it’s very few and far between. When people when there are clients who have cases who need a forensic accountant, they already have attorneys. And so I get brought into that case. And then if the client needs a new attorney, and they’re switching, it’s a little weird for me to be referring that out, knowing that their soon to be fired attorney brought me into the case. It’s just a it’s really complicated. And so I don’t have a lot of reciprocal attorney referrals for attorneys. And so that makes it weird sometimes.


Steve Fretzin  [17:53]

Yeah. And I think again, number one priority is Who can I send people to that they’re going to come back to me and say, that was amazing, that was great, best introduction, you couldn’t have done better for me, that’s going to be top of the list. And when you mentioned, loyalty and how that develops loyalty. So I can help somebody grow a book of business and be their advisor, their partner, their mentor and all that. But then on top of that, to be able to give them those resources. That’s another level, that’s a level I think most attorneys should aspire to. And maybe not all of them are there.


Tracy Coenen  [18:25]

I think he hit the nail on the head with that one.


Steve Fretzin  [18:28]

So that’s let’s move to that. Because I think that we can actually leverage this as a win win win in the sense of we develop this network of resources. Okay, number one, so that adds to the value that we’re providing to the lawyer or, you know, to our the lawyers, clients, for example. Okay. And then how does that benefit the lawyer and their clients in a way that’s going to come back to the lawyer tenfold?


Tracy Coenen  [18:58]

Well, certainly you want your clients to be doing business the right way. If you’re referring them to the insurance company that’s going to get them properly covered. If you’re referring them to the accountant who is going to make sure that their books and records are accurate, and they have good tax returns filed and such. I think having clients who are doing good business certainly helps the attorney when any problems do come up.


Steve Fretzin  [19:24]

Yeah. And I think if we look at a list of like, what is client loyalty, I think the myth of client loyalty used to be hey, if I charge someone a fair fee and do good work, they’re gonna stay loyal to me, right? That’s I think the myth of loyalty with the reality of loyalty is we not only have to provide fair pricing and whenever that you’d wanted to find that as and also what else also the service but then what’s on top of that, how are we going to benefit them and add value beyond that and that’s where this group this list of, of resources and building that up can really add really, you know, take things to Another level become more of a conciliatory than this than just just a lawyer.


Tracy Coenen  [20:05]

I totally agree with you. There is that whole package aspect of all of it. So, definitely, we want to be thinking, yes, we want to provide the good services, we want to provide the fair fees. But we also want to take that next step and provide the icing on the cake for the client. So in my practice, certainly, I’d like to think that I do fantastic broad investigations. And I provide expert reports that are really easy to understand. And I do fixed fees, which is really fair to the clients. But what else can I bring to the table, like you see, I like to bring these other resources and referrals. But the other interesting thing that I bring is strategic thinking. So I am always looking at these cases, and coming up with ideas for how to litigate, I’m not an attorney. But I’ve been around the legal process for 25 years. And hey, I had a case five years ago, where we had a similar issue come up, and the attorneys made this argument is that something that might work in this case, and I’ve seen clients be blown away with, you know, novel ideas that they really hadn’t thought about. So yes, bring the extra.


Steve Fretzin  [21:15]

Yeah, I think there’s the development of these real these strategic relationships and resources. And then if you can develop, you know, three to five, eight, whatever the number is that you need to really take care of your clients, then the next question is alright, that’s great. How do we maintain those relationships? So when you’re dealing with lawyers that are your referral sources? Or you’re dealing with the other resources that you send your lawyers to? How do you continue to maintain those and make sure those relationships stay sound and with you,


Tracy Coenen  [21:47]

with the attorneys, it’s pretty easy. When I started my business, almost 23 years ago, I was still pretty new in the space. And I didn’t have much of a professional network. And I was trying to think of what is a client to me, and I came up with this concept that a client is an attorney who brings me a case once every five years. And oh, my goodness, I was so correct about that. I’ll tell you see, even attorneys who are litigating all day, every day, and that’s all they do. For whatever reason, it’s kind of once every five years, they’ll have a case that pops up that needs me. Yeah. So I knew that it was going to be important to have touch points with these attorneys. And the way that I do that has evolved over the years. But over the last five years, it’s been heavily centered on things like an email newsletter, I can’t tell you how much I personally hate email newsletters. But I made this decision that I was going to do one that I was going to send out three times a year. That’s it three times a year, Steve, every time I send it out, I get a new case, from an attorney who calls me and says, I had been thinking of you, I wouldn’t have been meaning to call you I have this thing. I always get a new case out of it. So it definitely pays off.


Steve Fretzin  [23:08]

Well, here’s a thought if you’d send it out every month, you’ll get four times the cases.


Tracy Coenen  [23:13]

How do you like that? Man? Billy, I didn’t like that man. Unless people get annoyed because they unsubscribe. I don’t


Steve Fretzin  [23:21]

know. Okay, all right. Well, that might be a thing. I sent one out, I think just about weekly. And it’s great to see who’s opening it. Because that’s the beauty of newsletters where you can see who’s opening, you could see us engaging. And I think that’s super helpful. But yeah, I don’t read a lot of newsletters, but I’d like but when I see it pop up in my inbox, even if I hit to lead, I’m still seeing that person’s name that company. And it registers that if I had a need or had a thing for that person like that, you know, that would trigger me for sure. The other way that I think it’s important to stay in front of people, and this is the one that some lawyers are gonna just like me, I don’t want to do that. But it is social media. I mean, the fact that I see you pop up on social media, I see your comments, I watch your posts, I’m, I comment on them, whatever it might be, it’s still another opportunity for that FaceTime. And if lawyers are just buried under the hiding under the desk, and they don’t want to deal with it, putting their name out there, they might be missing those same opportunities.


Tracy Coenen  [24:17]

And let me calm some fears with the attorneys. When we talk about social media. The goal of social media is not to vomit out as much as you can. The goal of social media is to do it strategically. What I have done, I think it was four, almost five years ago, someone said to me, why aren’t you involved on LinkedIn, it’s a great place to develop business. And they said, I hate LinkedIn, not going to do social media. It’s all terrible. And she walked me through creating content for LinkedIn, creating content that the right people are going to look at and respond to. So I committed to a year of following her advice. And I said okay, at the end of that year, I’m going to look at what is my network look like? And do I think that at some point in year two, I might actually get some business from LinkedIn. And if I can say yes, then I’ll commit to another year. I think it only took about six months, and I had business that was coming in from LinkedIn, I legitimately get cases with fees 25 to $50,000, in fees more than that, from attorneys who are messaging me saying, I’ve seen your content on LinkedIn, and I’d like to talk to you about a case like they legitimately know me from nowhere else, and are reaching out to me with these cases. It’s amazing. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [25:40]

So it’s about the FaceTime, whether it’s actual FaceTime, or the newsletter, the social media, and just how you’re connected with I mean, the holidays are here. Now this now we’re past because it’s already, you know, mid mid to end of January, when this is going to air, because you’re looking at me funny, like, what does it say that you didn’t have


Tracy Coenen  [25:59]

to bust me? Yeah, I looked at us funny. And then the light bulb went on, I don’t know, if I had to bust on everyone.


Steve Fretzin  [26:06]

I can’t help myself, that’s just Allen belt. The idea being you know, holiday cards, you know, little gifts, even just an email saying, hey, you know, have a great holiday see you and you know, looking for a big 2023. With you, all that stuff adds up. And so, you know, what I tell my clients, in many cases with their resources and strategic partners is, you know, come up with an ABC list, and the A’s get this much touch in this much effort, the B’s get a little less than the C’s get almost nothing, maybe just the newsletter and the social media that they happen to see. But I don’t think everyone needs to be treated equally as a relates to your time and how much they see of you, or how much you touch them from a standpoint of, you know, you know, fate, literal FaceTime, because they’re your best resources, or they’re your best. They’re the ones sending you business, etc. Like the lawyers that you know, that send you stuff, even if it’s once every five years, you know, they may be getting more than someone that doesn’t


Tracy Coenen  [27:00]

be strategic about it, and spend your time and money where it makes sense. And be willing to constantly evolve with what you’re doing. If you’ve been spending time on something. And it’s you’re not seeing any progress with it, be willing to scrap it. So what Steve, so we’re in January, and you know what that means for everyone’s marketing and business development efforts. Everyone says, Oh, it’s a new year, I’m going to do all the things. And for about the month of January, they put all sorts of time and effort, I’m gonna post every day on LinkedIn, I’m gonna do the thing and do the thing. And then they burn themselves out within a period of about two to three weeks, and then they do nothing for the rest of the year. Yeah, but if we be a little more strategic and measured in our approach, and do something, figure out something that is sustainable for you, in the long term, not this frenzy of activity that you can’t keep up with. Yeah, slow


Steve Fretzin  [27:55]

and steady wins the race. Every time. Tracy awesome stuff. We’ve got a game changing book here, who not how now that’s come up on the show a couple of times. And I haven’t read it yet, I have the feeling that title says what I need to know. But maybe you can give give a little more of a summary of why that book is a game changing book for you.


Tracy Coenen  [28:17]

Dan Sullivan, who not how is exactly what it sounds like, it’s less focus on how you’re going to accomplish something and more focus on who can help you accomplish it. Earlier this in 2022, when I had the idea to do the divorce money guide, and it didn’t have a name, and I didn’t know what was going to happen. The very first thing I started doing was reaching out to people that I knew and saying, I have this concept to make a product that will help people who are getting divorced but can’t afford a forensic accountant, who do you know, that can help me execute this, I was talking to people in the area of marketing in the area of online course development, you know, all sorts of different people. And by focusing on the who, I found the right people to help me and at seven days after the initial brainstorm, I had a completed product. If I had gotten my head so far in just the How am I going to do it? How am I going to do it? No, I just focused on who is going to help me do it. And they figured out the how.


Steve Fretzin  [29:17]

And the old adage of well, it’s just easier if I just do it myself that is going to crush the billable hour that’s gonna that’s gonna really you know, you may not seem like much but if you do the math, which you’re better at than me, and you start adding all that time up because you didn’t find the right associate the right paralegal, whomever the right resource to do it for you, you’re gonna get burned. And so I think who is become so much more important now than ever. And I The reality is that, you know, we all there’s bas out there, there’s a lot of specialists and companies that do things you don’t do. Let them let them you know, have a vetting process but let them do it and get it off my plate. Right.


Tracy Coenen  [29:56]

I learned the lesson the hard way this year because I just is overloaded myself with so much client work. And I finally a couple months ago, hired a virtual assistant and he was fantastic. And I’ve been had the goal of passing more and more off to her as I become more confident her skills, oh my goodness, this is life changing the amount that she’s able to take off, my plate is growing, and I’m feeling so much better. And I feel like we have a better process in place. I feel like I’m getting quality work, higher quality work out the door. And I was smart enough. From day one. I said, every time you do something for me, I want you to document what you’ve done. So we’re putting together a document that has all of our procedures. And so she like took the bulls by the horn and everything she’s done for me. She’s got little screenshots in there and an explanation. And here’s an extra tip Tracy likes this done like this. So if you do the thing, it’s going to make it easier for her when she has to come back and do her review. This is life changing, Steve? Yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [31:05]

it absolutely is. So so that’s that’s going to be you know, if you get nothing else from your day today, as you listen to this, take that away that you’ve got, you’ve got to make a list of things that you shouldn’t be doing things that are not your skill set and figure out how to get them to someone else who not how. Tracy, thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your wisdom. This has been as much fun as I was hoping it was going to be if people want to get in touch with you. They want to check out your services what’s what’s the best way for them to get in touch.


Tracy Coenen  [31:34]

Hey, they can go ahead and go to fraud. Because I am your fraud coach.


Steve Fretzin  [31:40]

There you go. Awesome. And also, you know, pretty big on LinkedIn. Not hard to find on LinkedIn. Last installed co e n e n write that over. Check that out. Thank you man. I appreciate it. Awesome. Awesome. Having


Tracy Coenen  [31:54]

me was great on talking to you. Yeah, yeah. And hey,


Steve Fretzin  [31:57]

before I get to wrap up the show want to take a moment to thank the sponsors we’ve got legalese helping on the marketing side just making everything good we’re talking about outsourcing Well here you go. Here’s three great companies to outsource to legalese for your marketing money penny on the live chat on your website or the Virtual Receptionist and of course practice Panther making you look good through their practice management software and in just streamlining everything you need to do to be successful lawyer, everybody thank you so much for spending time with Tracy night today. Hopefully you got a couple of wonderful takeaways. I know I’ve got my usual page and notes. And as you know, it’s all about helping you to be that lawyer someone who’s competent organized in skilled Rainmaker. Take care everybody be safe be well, we’ll talk again real soon.


Narrator  [32:43]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes