In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Viktoria Altman discuss:
- Risk and mindset in legal marketing
- How to evaluate and choose marketing vendors
- Niche focus and ideal client definition as a growth strategy
- The emerging impact of AI on search, ads, and brand identity
Key Takeaways:
- Lawyers should stop chasing random acts of marketing and instead copy proven tactics used by competitors who serve the same client profile and budget.
- Vet agencies should ask to speak with their clients in the same practice area and budget bracket and avoid unrealistically low-priced proposals.
- Concentrate marketing spend on one prioritized niche or ideal client profile first, then expand once that channel is sustainably profitable.
- AI-driven search will increasingly assemble a practitioner’s brand from published content and reviews, shifting the long game toward owned content (transcripts, guest posts, reviews) and away from manipulable paid placements.
“If you are doing anything on social media, it has to come from your heart.” — Viktoria Altman
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About Viktoria Altman: Viktoria Altman is the founder and CEO of BSPE Legal Marketing, a digital agency dedicated to helping attorneys boost visibility in both AI-driven and traditional search results. Beyond her role as a business leader, Viktoria is also the voice behind the Law Firm Accelerator Podcast and a sought-after keynote speaker, specializing in topics at the intersection of artificial intelligence and digital marketing.
At BSPE Legal Marketing, the mission is clear: to generate qualified, conversion-ready leads that connect lawyers directly with their ideal clientele.
As an experienced public speaker, Viktoria has presented at prestigious venues such as the New York City Bar Association, served as a guest lecturer at Arizona State University and National University’s JFK School of Law, and shared her insights on search engine optimization at the SEO Mastery Summit in Saigon.
Drawing from her practical experience as an entrepreneur, Viktoria has honed a proven system to enhance websites, fine-tune AI-based strategies, and support small law firms in staying competitive. Her overarching goal is to empower attorneys to grow thriving, future-ready practices while maintaining the personal well-being and balance they deserve.
Connect with Viktoria Altman:
Website: https://bsplegalmarketing.com
Email: [email protected]
Show: Law Firm Accelerator: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/law-firm-accelerator/id1760159502
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/viktoria-altman/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/viktoria.tralala
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/traveltipster/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: [email protected]
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey, everyone, if you’re looking to forge high value client connections, build visibility and grow your book of business, I have an event for you. It’s be that lawyer live. And it’s August 27 bringing you authentic stories and actionable strategies from four top rainmakers, just 39 bucks plus all my free eBook Collection coming your way. It’s one hour, 15 minutes. Massive value. Reserve your spot today. Bretson.com/events,
Narrator [00:36]
you’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, Hey
Steve Fretzin [00:58]
everybody, welcome back. It’s Steve Fretzin, and this is the be that lawyer podcast. We are here for your listening pleasure and viewing pleasure and reading pleasure, depending on what and how you’re getting this you can check out above the law. We put some of our videos up there. I also write a monthly column. We’ve got the podcast channels, any platform you’re on. We’ve got YouTube channel. We’ve got our website, frets and calm. Be that lawyer.com. We are good to go for you, and today I’ve got Viktoria winning the wings. How you doing? Hey, Steve, great to be here. You ready to rock and roll? I am always ready to rock and roll. Gonna teach us all about marketing, something we’ve never discussed on the show before.
Viktoria Altman [01:35]
I am here to share as much useful information as I possibly can, well within the time limit. All right,
Steve Fretzin [01:41]
we reviewed the questions ahead of time, and everyone that I every question I threw at you, you’re like, No problem. So we’re gonna see. We’re gonna play it out. But I’m excited about it because you, you have a confidence that I think this that’s necessary for this kind of show. So let’s start off with our quote of the show. The best way to predict the future is to create it, the infamous Peter Drucker. So welcome to the show and tell us a little bit about that quote. Well, quote.
Viktoria Altman [02:03]
Well, I do think that if you work really hard and you keep your eyes very open and you keep attuned to everything that’s going on, you can help create the future. Even if the future is moving so quickly as it is right now, where things seem to be moving very, very quickly, you can still participate in the creation of it, but you just have to be aware and awake for everything that’s happening.
Steve Fretzin [02:27]
And it’s not like the future doesn’t mean like, you know, the the earth and everybody on it. I think the future can be our future and the future of our clients, the future of, you know, our circles and our, you know, the places where we are. My personal thing is between, you know, the writing and the podcast and all this stuff, like I’m going to be gone someday, and I want my legacy, other than my son, to be, you know that I help change the legal industry and make it a better place. So I’m really the predict, my prediction, and what I work for every day is that, is there something you feel that same way in the marketing space that you’re doing similar work.
Viktoria Altman [03:02]
Well, I do feel that, because of, I’m on the edge of the tech right now, I work with some of the smartest people in the world, I’m able to participate in how we actually use the technology that we’re, you know, in create our future with it. I do feel like, because I have a lot of I’m doing some tests, and I would really participate in the process of creating our future marketing tech? Yeah. Well, we’re going
Steve Fretzin [03:25]
to get into it. Let’s go back to the beginning, though, everybody, Viktoria Altman is the founder of B, s, p, legal marketing, and give us a little background, because I don’t think, I mean, I, I’m intrigued by your travel background too. Like, that’s so exciting to me. Like, my dream is to do what you’ve already done, but give us a little bit of how you came
Viktoria Altman [03:43]
to be. Yeah. So I’m actually serial entrepreneur. I’ve never had a real job. I opened my first business when I was 12, and so in March 2020 I was actually a professional travel blogger, and when I noticed what was happening, and this goes back to create the future you want, because it was very, very obvious to me what was happening travel blogging was not going to be a good way to make money for a while. And rather than fight against the world and fight against the circumstances, I embraced it, and I opened up a business that I felt would be much more recession proof and remote proof, right? Working with lawyers, you’ll always need lawyers no matter what’s happening in the world. So that was how I came to open BSP, legal, marketing,
Steve Fretzin [04:32]
yeah, very cool. And here’s a question we didn’t cover that I’m going to ask you. And this one I know you can’t answer, your favorite city?
Viktoria Altman [04:39]
Oh, New York City. Oh,
Steve Fretzin [04:44]
no, European cities, New York.
Viktoria Altman [04:46]
That’s the example. New York is New York. New York is home. New York is the bomb. If you can make it here. You know they say you can make it anywhere. Well, I would live anywhere else. Okay, all right, wow.
Steve Fretzin [04:59]
All right, I have to make. Out to New York. I’ve been saying that for six months, but I have so many wonderful relationships in New York, and we’ll see if I can drag my wife out there. But ultimately, that’s that I got to get back to New York. You’re right. It’s good place. So let’s talk about marketing. And you know, this is, you know, business development, marketing, the business of law, is lost on a lot of attorneys, and not the attorneys that listen to this and watch this show, because they’re here, because they’re in the game. But what do you see lawyers as sort of missing the mindset, or that maybe they don’t have the mindset of marketing and they just see it as either an expense or they just don’t engage?
Viktoria Altman [05:34]
I would say there are two things. First one is lawyers tend to be a bit more on the conservative side, so they’re afraid to take a risk. They feel that things are working okay, maybe not great, but working okay. And a risk is a risk, and you might lose a little money, and that’s a problem. The second thing I see a lot is people who kind of jump from risk to risk. And they are trying a little social media, they’re trying a little SEO. They try this agency. They try that agency. Instead of kind of finding something that already works for their competitors with the type of marketing you should be doing. Honestly, the easiest thing to do is just do whatever works for your competitors and also really narrowing down to the kind of work they need done.
Steve Fretzin [06:24]
That sounds like what we call in the in the biz, random acts of marketing.
Viktoria Altman [06:28]
I like that. I’ve never heard that before, but yeah,
Steve Fretzin [06:31]
now, now you’re in, now you’re in the biz lingo with me. All right, have some fun with that. But no, it mean random acts of marketing. The way that it’s discussed on this show and with people in my world is, you know, I attend a conference, I tried some LinkedIn, you know, ads. I did this. I didn’t just kind of poke around at things. For me, it has been what you’ve said. I’ve tried this agency that cost me 20 grand, got no results. Then I did, oh, now I’m going to get into this. And then I did. That 25 grand, and that didn’t work. And, you know, I try to qualify. I try to, you know, make sure that I’m making a good buying decision, that it’s right for me. Everybody says it’ll work. Everyone says it’ll, you know, don’t worry. Leave it to me. This is my thing. Can be very frustrating for lawyers, and I think one of the reasons that they are risk averse is because they’ve been burned and it’s problematic. What are some things that they should be doing to best qualify that something is for them, and how to evaluate it to make sure that they get or potentially could get the results?
Viktoria Altman [07:33]
Well, first of all, that’s a very fair criticism of my industry. We are in an industry that is completely unregulated, and I will be very honest with you, I am insulted by the work that a lot of people I see are doing. It’s one of the reasons why I speak so much is because I talk at events to explain to lawyers what they should be looking for, what the red flags are. And that is completely fair, that people are frustrated and people get taken for a ride. I’m 100% but in order to avoid that, to an extent, what you really want to do is, when you speak with an agency, you want to ask them for clients who are in the same price range as you, so have been sending spending the same amount of money you’ve been spending, and are in the same position as you, so they’re in the same if you’re in a state lawyer. I want to speak to a state lawyer. Clients, if you are in the suburbs, I want to speak at suburb clients. You want to compare apples to apples as much as possible, and you want to just have a conversation with them. And, you know, are you okay, as in, this person is maybe the best you’ve tried out of very bad ones. Or are you, you know, I have clients who are like, you know, I bought a house thanks to your you know, and I’m not here to promote myself, but like clients who are just so thrilled, you want to look for thrilled, right? And you don’t want to look for, you know, just okay,
Steve Fretzin [08:54]
I had a lunch with a guy. This is going way, way back, and I had been in the legal industry for maybe a year or two, but I was starting to get known for it, and this guy meets with me because he’s in marketing and I’m in business development, and together, we can do some magic. So I we had this lovely launch, and I asked him, I go, Hey, out of curiosity, I wasn’t able to really see any of the law firms that you’ve worked with on your website. Who are some of the law firms you work with? Maybe I know some people. There he goes, Well, that’s confidential, and we don’t really share that. I said, So confidentially, you know who’s or, you know, give me a name, give me something. He goes, No, we that’s part of our non disclosure. We don’t do that. I immediately called kind of BS and said to myself, This guy is not in legal marketing. What he’s trying to do is he’s trying either he’s a terrible marketer and he’s trying to get business, or he’s done everything else but legal and he’s trying to get into legal through me, which is fine. Which is fine. If he had just said that from the get go and proven himself out for accountants and dentists and financial planners, I would have been fine helping him get into legal, but he didn’t play that card. And of course, I never saw him again, never heard of him again. He’s probably dead in a ditch. So what you’re saying is so meaningful, and I do that too, every lawyer I work. Work with as the opportunity. And in fact, I insist that they speak with one or two clients, because I think it’s important to not only see the fit from their side, but the fit from my side. And I get feedback from my clients. This person rescheduled with me three times and was difficult to get in touch with. And I’m doing them a favor. And I’m like, great for thanks for telling I’m, first of all, I’m sorry, and second of all, thanks for telling me that, because this is not someone I’m going to work
Viktoria Altman [10:22]
with, right? Yeah. Work with, right? Yeah, I’m also very selective. I just, I think not every agency is going to be right for every attorney. There are certainly going to be cases or, you know, marketing cases, that will not be right for me, and I want to establish that early on. But I think, look like I said, at least you’re a lawyer teaching other lawyers, right? And you’ve already you have a level of expertise there. Unfortunately, in my industry, it’s just a free for all this. People could be located anywhere. They could be lying to you. They could tell you they have lawyer clients and not have them. Don’t let people get away with things like that. You know, if you are a legitimate agency, you will have a legitimate answer. There’s a lot of people that we call who are specialized in what we call churn and burn. You get a client, you get as much money out of them as fast as possible, and then you expect them to lead right? And that is their entire marketing model, which is absolutely horrible. You know, it’s just, it’s not the right way to do things, but it’s but it’s legal. You know, they’re not technically doing anything illegal. So, yeah, but
Steve Fretzin [11:26]
just pissing a lot of people off and getting again, giving a bad name to the legal marketing, just marketing industry in general. So I love that you have, you know that you’re looking for a fit, and also that you’re allowing them to, like, hey, let’s talk with a client or two of mine to make sure that you know the results they have, and you’re in a similar situation, that it could work for you in a different city.
Viktoria Altman [11:48]
Yeah, and I will be very specific, like, this is the kind of budget they have. You want their results. This is the budget you’re going to need. I love my job, but I don’t have a magic stick, so make sure that when you are hiring agencies. You specifically tell them, this is the budget. Let me talk to clients who have that budget.
Steve Fretzin [12:06]
And how do they know what budget let’s I mean, is it based on the results they’re trying to get? Is it based on, like, they’re just trying to get cases in the door? And is it them telling you, I want 10 cases more a week, and then you’re saying, oh, to get 10 cases a week, and you, like, work it backwards. Like, how do you play that out?
Viktoria Altman [12:24]
Yeah, so I will ask them on my exploratory call, what are you looking for? What are you looking to do? And then I’ll do a presentation for them. And the presentation is very, very extensive. Like, actually, I’m the one who does it. It takes me about two hours to research one client, which is why? Another reason why I’m so specific, because I want to understand, if I can help them, how I can help them, and how much it will cost them, right? So I will give them a whole, you know, 45 minute presentation. At the end, I’ll say, this is how much this is going to cost, and this is why. And so, yeah, so now they have the information. And sometimes people will tell me things like, look, you know, this is just too much. And I will say, you know, usually they’ll stand on the first call. And I’ll say, you know, I get that and I can’t help you. Yeah, you know, the other thing that you really want to be careful with is if people say things like, Yes, I’ll do all the work for you for $1,000 for $1,500 those numbers are just not realistic anymore. I don’t care who you are.
Steve Fretzin [13:22]
And my father was always, if it’s too good to be true, it is. Mean, he was lawyer, risk averse. He’d been burned. I mean, he’d been through that. So, you know, you find $100 bill, you know, and expect that there’s going to be a mouse trap snap in your finger.
Viktoria Altman [13:35]
Yeah? You want to get a couple of quotes from different people. If one of them is very, very low, ask why? Yeah, and that seems like common sense, but I think for a lot of folks, they’re so in the law that for them maybe it’s hard for them to kind of have a big vision marketing picture there. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [13:57]
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Viktoria Altman [16:02]
So I would say number one thing is have a very good ideal client to find. Now, it doesn’t have to be just one specific ideal client, right? But it might be if you’re an estate lawyer, you know, a high net worth individual who is 55 to 65 and is married, right? Or it could also be a newly pregnant couple in their 30s, it could, you could have multiple ideal clients defined, but when you can define those ideal clients for your practice, then you can promote to them, right? And I know this goes back to a lot of what you teach as well understanding your market. The other thing is, and I don’t know how much you encounter this, I do have sometimes lawyers who say, Yes, I do this, but I also want to do criminal but I also want to do this. I want to do this. I can market anything, but it’s going to cost you a lot more money. If you want me to market three different areas, pick one, and when you’re making money with that, we can. I’m always happy to take more money, you know. I mean, we spread your budget right now over three different practice areas, you’re not going to get that
Steve Fretzin [17:04]
much for it. You’re just not Well, they say the riches are in the niches. So, you know, figure out maybe like so you have two or three areas that you have, maybe there’s one that you enjoy more than the others, right? Maybe there’s one that allows you to delegate more work down to your staff than the others, which allows you to keep marketing and business developing and rainmaking, etc. Maybe it’s about spending more time with your family. And, you know, you’re able to make money and delegate as much as possible. So I think there’s a number of things that are important to consider when investing in marketing. And, you know, thinking about like, what type of business you want to bring in, right? Exactly.
Viktoria Altman [17:40]
And it all goes back to the niches. The riches are in the niches, you know, focus on one
Steve Fretzin [17:46]
thing, yeah. And then, you know, you’ve got all these options. I mean, there’s SEO, pay per click, search engine optimization, everybody pay per click ads, which is pay per click to some degree, depending on right different variations. There’s social media marketing, which has come into its own right and sort of taken over. I do a ton of that. I don’t pay for it. I do it all through natural means. And then there’s, you know, people could be speaking and writing and all this different stuff. It’s a lot. So how does someone know what they should be focusing on? Because I don’t think SEO is for everybody, right?
Viktoria Altman [18:21]
So a very good even though we really do a lot of SEO, a very good example of people who aren’t a good fit for SEO is business to business lawyers, right? Somebody who writes contracts or helps set up corporations is not generally going to be a good client for SEO. There’s just not that much search. So my advice to always find people who are already doing the kind of work you want to be doing with your ideal clients, and they don’t have to be in your market. They don’t have to be in Chicago, they could be in, you know, Miami, and take those people, see what they’re doing, and put a good amount of money and a good amount of effort into that specific thing that they’re doing. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel every time.
Steve Fretzin [19:05]
Yeah, so I see there’s another business development coach that’s doing podcasting that I should look further at podcasting. If I see someone else, and it’s not, you’re not trying to like, mirror them, or you’re trying to like, maybe it’s the word is emulate to some degree. You don’t want to be a copycat. So how do you sort of go into what other people are going and not find that that’s too crowded? Because that might be the problem is like, hey, if my competitors are all doing one thing and then I get in there late, then maybe I’m not going to get the same kinds of results. Then they get
Viktoria Altman [19:34]
all about authenticity as well. If you are doing anything on social media, it has to come from your heart. Now, if you’re doing ads and you Google SEO, you know that’s a marketer is going to do it for you. But if you decide to do anything when you are interfacing with people, make sure that it’s as authentic to you as possible. But in general, for many B to C type businesses, SEO is going. Going to be the best bang for the buck if done properly,
Steve Fretzin [20:03]
got it, I guess. The last sort of topic I want to hit with you, and this has been on the show a few times, but I want to get your take because of your background and where you are with this subject, is, you know, there’s a clash or a clash, but also a an integration of marketing and AI, right? So the way that I’m searching right now for just about everything is through chat. GBT, I’m not going to Google and looking at the three pack and the ads. I’m not doing any of that anymore. If I can help it, it’s going to the chat and saying, This is what I want to do. This what I want to accomplish is what I want to find. And it’s giving me the curated answer. So that’s maybe a part of it. But how are you seeing AI? Is it’s, you know, where it’s where marketing has been, how AI is changing it today, and then where you see it in six months or a year? I love
Viktoria Altman [20:49]
this question, because I am doing this eight hours a day. I’m going to conference. I’m speaking at conferences. So this is very near and dear to my heart. The way AI search works is it’s all about brand. So in order to understand who Steve Fretzin is, what AI models will do is pull information about you from websites they consider valuable. So we did a podcast. I’m going to post the podcast, and it’s going to actually include the transcript. And so Google will come to my website and read that entire transcript, and that will now become part of your brand identity, who you are as a brand. So in order for you to be peer as, let’s say, a personal injury attorney in let’s say New York City, Google is going to go to Avo. It’s going to go to find law. It’s going to go maybe to the New York Times, if you mentioned that, The New York Times or another, maybe not such a big press release website, you know, you it’s going to go to guest posts. And so it’s going to gather all this information. And when I ask New York City Personal Injury Attorney. It’s actually going to not just ask that question. It’s going to say, well, she searched for slip and fold yesterday, so she’s probably looking for slip and fall. And I see she’s located in Brooklyn, so even though she’s saying New York City, maybe she wants Brooklyn. So it’s actually going to make a lot of assumptions about me based on what it knows about me, and then it’s going to present me with the person who has the most reviews, who has the best hour profile, who maybe has a slip and full page, etc, etc. So it’s a fascinating topic, and it’s very exciting to be working on this right now.
Steve Fretzin [22:35]
All right, so the big question then is, what happens to the law firms who are relying solely on Pay Per Click ads, like that’s how they get their business in the door. They pay the exorbitant fees, millions and millions of dollars a month, and now this is the new way to search. Are they able to convert over very easily, or is that going to be sticky wick?
Viktoria Altman [22:55]
So great question. Google is taking away our ability to manipulate those ads, to edit those ads. They’re doing it more and more automatic, automated, so we still have some ability, but I see that going away. And so here’s what Google wants to do. Google is a for profit company. They want to make as much money as possible. They’re going to make those ads still a little bit profitable, but it’s going to only be a little bit profitable for the end user, right? Because this, you know, let’s say you make a 10% return on those, you know, ads, rather than making the 50% return, right? This way, Google can still give you a little bit, like, it’s almost like at the casino, right? They still give you a little bit, but they keep as much money as possible. So ads are definitely using AI are going to be working in the favor of the company that’s doing it, and that’s the way business work.
Steve Fretzin [23:50]
So meaning the different AI companies, they’re in profit too. So aren’t they then manipulating, or going to try to manipulate it? So if I’m using chat GBT, someone else is using, I don’t know Google’s name. What’s the Google’s AI pops up on my when I do go to Google and they’ve there’s all these different, you know, brands of AI, and it’s based, maybe it’s, you know, Harvey, or whatever people are using, right?
Viktoria Altman [24:14]
So Google has its own ads, right? And if you try to set up an ad inside the ad, you’re going to be given some options for how you can run that ad. Now, right now, we can say we want this demographic. We want the zip code, etc, etc, but what they’re doing is they’re removing as much control as possible from the human so that they can decide where to run the ad, how to run the ad, to make the most money as the most money possible from you. So while we have some control now, they’re going to take it away. Now chat, GPT is actually based on Bing, so in order to rank a charge GPT, right? Now, very easy. You have to rank on Bing. But remember, Bing is Microsoft, right? Bing has ads. So how long until Chad? GPT has ads. My guess is not very long, but again, they, you know, the page, they just try and make as much money as possible.
Steve Fretzin [25:06]
So when people are searching like I am on chat GPT, then there should be people advertising on Bing. Now to get found on the for people that are starting to search on chat GPT, or is that? Is that really how that’s going
Viktoria Altman [25:18]
to work? Well, not yet. So right now, if you rank on Bing, if you come up with number one, two or three on Bing, you will come up high in chat GPT, because being in Microsoft, chat GPT and Microsoft have a partnership. But eventually, I think you’ll be able to advertise on both Bing and chat GPT, okay? And if I go in I look for personal injury lawyer. I might see an ad in chat GPT at some point in the future.
Steve Fretzin [25:44]
I guess my thought was going to be like, how are they going to make money? The same way that everyone makes money now, it’s a subscription, so that eventually chat GBT will be all right. It’s, you know, $50 a month to use it, and therefore you’re going to get a more balanced and real answer, response, information to make your life better, easier, or whatever. I mean, I’m paying 20 a month right now for the plus. Okay, but I can see is that. I mean, you think, is that going to be one of the ways that they monetize this down the road?
Viktoria Altman [26:15]
Well, charge GPT is losing a ton of money. They’re burning for money. They’re not making any money off those 20 bucks, I would love for it to continue to be paid, and then you have two options, right? You can have the free, with the ads and the paid. And I think that’s probably what’s going to end up happening. It’ll be more than $20 a month, but I’m happy to pay for it. I know you’re
Steve Fretzin [26:34]
probably happy, yeah, I would be if it allowed me to find like, I you’re in. So I’m going to throw this. I may have said this on the channel, remember, but like, I want there to be a time where I want to take my wife to Italy, and I want to go to, you know, the two main cities I wanted to take care of, hotel, entertainment, top three restaurants get me reservations. Like, handle the whole thing for me. And I just, like, click a button and say, approve, right? Like, that’s how good I want this AI to be so that I basically can take a trip and do that.
Viktoria Altman [27:02]
So three days ago, chat GPT released an agent designed to do just now, man, now I haven’t tested it. I don’t know how it was. Its name that perfect. It’s a chat GPT agent, if you look at it, and it’s actually designed to make your travel plans or do it things like that make motivations for you.
Steve Fretzin [27:23]
What do you enjoy? What do you like to eat? What you know? Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. All right, well, that’s a bit well, maybe I’m predicting the future, then we’re back to the beginning. Best way to predict the future is to create, I just created it. There you go. All right, let’s wrap things up with Viktoria’s big mistake. So sorry you may,
Viktoria Altman [27:41]
you know, it’s funny because we spoke about this earlier, and I think a mistake is I don’t, can’t think of a mistake and think of plenty of failures, but I think all of my failures have actually ended up as good things. I did start a company that failed recently. It was called Follow up with and it was all about creating a system to help lawyers follow up with their prospective clients. I don’t know if it was such a big mistake, because I still made a little bit of money off of it, and I learned from it, but it was, I would say, it was a little too narrow. It was a little bit too defined. We didn’t have a big enough vision for it, and it’s, it was a little bit of a narrow product. Plus, I also think it could be doubt now done with AI, so I think maybe it wasn’t future proof, and that was part of, probably part of the problem. Hey, do you think I
Steve Fretzin [28:32]
should change the name of this segment from Viktoria’s big mistake, or just anybody’s big mistake, to failing forward? Is that, like a better is that a better play or better setup for this segment? Because I, I want people to share some problem they had and something that didn’t condemn the same way. I started a bunch of businesses that eventually either fail or just like, became too cumbersome, and I just, like wasn’t focused, and had to get those were, I mean, those were either mistakes, failures, whatever they were. I learned something. I you know, I learned to better focus, I learned, maybe not to have a partnership. May learn whatever it is that I learned. I don’t know, failing forward is kind of a very exquisite way to kind of lay that out for people that learn something important from a failure.
Viktoria Altman [29:13]
I like that. It also goes back to the mindset. I don’t know if you ever read Mindset by Carol Dweck. It’s a really good book about how people who have a very specific growth mindset will go further in life, and they one of the things they do is they look at every failure as part of their growth. So it’s actually every failure is actually like failing up. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [29:33]
I mean, I really believe, and I’ve said this on a number of occasions, that this is how we get better. This is how we define ourselves. This is, it’s the getting knocked down and how we get up and how we handle things from those experiences, which, you know, that’s what life is. If you just had everything cruising through right, then what is life like? It’s, you know, you’re not gonna be able to handle anything that comes your way later. Anyway, that’s a whole other segment. Let’s wrap things up with thanking our wonderful sponsors. Of course, we got pimcon coming up. Everybody. In October, I will be on stage with a bunch of wonderful professionals and experts helping you guys at the PIM conference. And then we’ve got the law her podcast with Sonia. Check that out everybody. And finally, legal verse, If you want to look at a 14 day free membership trial to see what that’s all about, to network, to provide content, to give content, to take in content internationally. Check out legal versus media.com. And Viktoria. People want to get in touch with you. They want to learn more about BSP, legal, marketing. What are your digits?
Viktoria Altman [30:35]
My digits like a phone number? I don’t think I’ve used a phone number in a really long time. All right, so I
Steve Fretzin [30:40]
should stop saying that, because it makes me as well. Makes me as old as I am, as old as I feel. What are the best ways for people to reach you?
Viktoria Altman [30:47]
Okay, there is my website, B, S, P, E, legal, marketing.com, there my appointment link is embedded into the website, so you can actually just have a chat with me. My name is Viktoria with a K, Altman, like the chat GPT guy, same last name, no relationship. Uh, look, you can look me up on LinkedIn or Facebook and send me a friend request, and I’m happy to have a conversation. And my email is Viktoria with a K at BSP, legal, marketing, com, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [31:17]
And if I really want to continue to feel my age, do you know what a Rolodex is.
Viktoria Altman [31:22]
I am almost your age. Actually,
Speaker 1 [31:27]
we’re not that different. Oh, my God. All right.
Viktoria Altman [31:31]
I just work with a lot of tech, so I move up. Okay, well, yeah, you’re with the window. Do know what a Rolodex? I used to have a Rolodex, okay, all right.
Steve Fretzin [31:38]
Then you are, you’re, all right, you’re with me. All right. All right. Well, thank you so much. This has been as much fun as I had you in your show. And what would give out the name of your show too? Just in case, we want to check out an awesome podcast.
Viktoria Altman [31:49]
The law firm accelerator podcast is the name of my show, and I appreciate you comment on there as well.
Steve Fretzin [31:54]
Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And you know, again, you know you’ve shared all your wisdom on on legal marketing. I feel like I did that with legal biz dev and good old fashioned pod swap never hurt anybody. Thank you so much Viktoria for coming on the show and like to thank you everybody for hanging out with us for the last 30 minutes. I got my usual page of notes, three or four, you know, really, really aggressive, hard hitting, interesting things that you guys can take too hard about how to evaluate and figure out your marketing and really take things to the next level. So be that lawyer. Everybody. What do you think be should you is it? Be that marketing? Be that marketer. Be that lawyer. What do you think?
Viktoria Altman [32:29]
I think being a good lawyer is about being a good marketer, isn’t it? All right?
Steve Fretzin [32:33]
Well, that that lawyer is the package, that the whole package. All right. Thank you. Everybody. Take care. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon. You
Narrator [32:45]
thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fredson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.